Should Rev get a Stock Main Hand Ranged Weapon?

[Knighthonor.4061]

I was thinking about something. when it comes to future off hand weapons we have no ranged mainhand weapons at all to go along with a potential off hand ranged weapon. I believe some kind of stock mainhand ranged weapon with quicker speed of attack than hammer would be a nice needed addition. In the future if they add a ranged main hand weapon in an elite spec, it would likely have to come with a off hand version to go with it, which kind of limits customization

[Justine.6351]

No,

[insert random reasons only I care about]

[Draygorn.7012]

Just let us use trident on land for the lolz.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@Draygorn.7012 said:Just let us use trident on land for the lolz.

First spvp page would be full of plz nerf rev trident

[Justine.6351]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Draygorn.7012 said:Just let us use trident on land for the lolz.

First spvp page would be full of plz nerf rev trident

but trident 2 and 5 already have a red circle red circles !

[narcx.3570]

It would only work to add a 2H or OH weapon to the revenant's current kit without completely replacing either sword or mace.

There's a reason you see almost no builds using 2 different MH weapons other than for Conquest/Dueling utility, and that's because MH weapon skills all have cool downs that are less than a weapon swap, which makes it pointless to swap to a different weapon unless you need some sort of utility (like say Guardian sw2 tele, or a cc skill, etc.)You'll just camp whichever MH does the most damage, since there's literally no reason to swap out of it. The only exception to this rule is with warrior builds, but that's because they have a 5 second weapon swap.

This means that if they wanted to add scepter or pistol as a MH or whatever, it would have to, right out of the gate, outperform either sword as a power weapon or mace as a condi weapon--or nobody would even use it. And if it was stronger than sword or mace, I'm sure the QQ-OP-tears would start flowing. The flip side of that would be that they add it and it's not as good as sword/mace, and then we'd be subjected to hundreds of daily threads on the revenant forums about how "OMG SCEPTER IS WURST THAN SHORTBOW 2!!! QQQQQQ."

[Zaret.1450]

I would like some medium range and fast att speed weapon for revenant.For example MH OH daggers or 2 focus , and while were at it they could make it power based weapons so you could weapon swap swords and daggers for example .(To make it clear a duelist espec with legends and traits acordingly made)

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

I would rather them just add Scepter + Focus together for an elite spec (Vizier Khilbronnnnn)

[Knighthonor.4061]

@"narcx.3570" said:It would only work to add a 2H or OH weapon to the revenant's current kit without completely replacing either sword or mace.

There's a reason you see almost no builds using 2 different MH weapons other than for Conquest/Dueling utility, and that's because MH weapon skills all have cool downs that are less than a weapon swap, which makes it pointless to swap to a different weapon unless you need some sort of utility (like say Guardian sw2 tele, or a cc skill, etc.)You'll just camp whichever MH does the most damage, since there's literally no reason to swap out of it. The only exception to this rule is with warrior builds, but that's because they have a 5 second weapon swap.

This means that if they wanted to add scepter or pistol as a MH or whatever, it would have to, right out of the gate, outperform either sword as a power weapon or mace as a condi weapon--or nobody would even use it. And if it was stronger than sword or mace, I'm sure the QQ-OP-tears would start flowing. The flip side of that would be that they add it and it's not as good as sword/mace, and then we'd be subjected to hundreds of daily threads on the revenant forums about how "OMG SCEPTER IS WURST THAN SHORTBOW 2!!! QQQQQQ."

I disagree. Some weapons in themselves have a role that they perform well. In early HoT before Druid nerf i would roll Axe Mainhand and Staff. I used Axe for the good circle kiting.Doesnt need to be alpha best. Just fit the role.

A ranged main hand weapon could also fit a role such as fast range sustained damage with some utility support or something.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@zaswer.5246 said:I would like some medium range and fast att speed weapon for revenant.For example MH OH daggers or 2 focus , and while were at it they could make it power based weapons so you could weapon swap swords and daggers for example .(To make it clear a duelist espec with legends and traits acordingly made)

This or Dual Magic cast daggers work for me as stock weapons for range with fast sustainable damage

[narcx.3570]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@"narcx.3570" said:It would only work to add a 2H or OH weapon to the revenant's current kit without completely replacing either sword or mace.

There's a reason you see almost no builds using 2 different MH weapons other than for Conquest/Dueling utility, and that's because MH weapon skills all have cool downs that are less than a weapon swap, which makes it pointless to swap to a different weapon unless you need some sort of utility (like say Guardian sw2 tele, or a cc skill, etc.)You'll just camp whichever MH does the most damage, since there's literally no reason to swap out of it. The only exception to this rule is with warrior builds, but that's because they have a 5 second weapon swap.

This means that if they wanted to add scepter or pistol as a MH or whatever, it would have to, right out of the gate, outperform either sword as a power weapon or mace as a condi weapon--or nobody would even use it. And if it was stronger than sword or mace, I'm sure the QQ-OP-tears would start flowing. The flip side of that would be that they add it and it's not as good as sword/mace, and then we'd be subjected to hundreds of daily threads on the revenant forums about how "OMG SCEPTER IS WURST THAN SHORTBOW 2!!! QQQQQQ."

I disagree. Some weapons in themselves have a role that they perform well. In early HoT before Druid nerf i would roll Axe Mainhand and Staff. I used Axe for the good circle kiting.Doesnt need to be alpha best. Just fit the role.

A ranged main hand weapon could also fit a role such as fast range sustained damage with some utility support or something.

Mainhand Axe + staff is not two different mainhand weapons though... :anguished: But even if they were, I said "unless you need some sort of utility," which both of those weapons fall under.

If you're envisioning Scepter as a utility support weapon tho, that's fine, but it would have to do something pretty amazing to replace staff, unless yer gonna run all utility weapons with your only dps options coming from trying to combo a single offhand slot with SotM.

[onemillionLIs.3184]

Why not just give revs a machine gun...?

Because people here would still find an excuse to complain.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I still think they need to implement a defensive/utility-centric offhand. Since offhand sword was reworked, it puts both core offhands in overlapping roles: both offer mobility and offense, even sharing some of the same conditions (chill, slow). It would be nice to have a block accessible to a core offhand weapon, restoring some of the defensive utility that old offhand sword brought to the table.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@"zaswer.5246" said:I would like some medium range and fast att speed weapon for revenant.For example MH OH daggers or 2 focus , and while were at it they could make it power based weapons so you could weapon swap swords and daggers for example .(To make it clear a duelist espec with legends and traits acordingly made)

This or Dual Magic cast daggers work for me as stock weapons for range with fast sustainable damage

IMO rev need 1 more weapon to core, maybe a sepcter / off-hand, one of these 2, imagine Anet add a specter and a offhandin diferent elite traits, these 2 will never met each other, u are forced either with sword or shield only..If i was ANet i would add a off-hand to revenant core, maybe would use invocation traitline for it, alacrity and a shutdowner skills type.Something based on this gameplay:https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:Me/any_FA_Shutdownhttps://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:Me/any_FA_Psychic_Instability_Wastrel%27s

IMO GS and dagger should be close combat, GS for counter build behavior and daggers for mobility dodge build similiar to what daredevil does.

[Buran.3796]

Rev should have the right to use a ranged condition weapon which works in duels/roaming... There's a reason why the main build & loadout didn't change in PvP/ solo WvW in 3.5 years. Condi Rev builds do suck at tanking and at aplying pressure at range, and the short bow fixed nothing.

[Kain Francois.4328]

Yes. It should be condi based (so you are not forced to use Renegade), and it should be throwing daggers. Perhaps both Dagger Mh and OH.

Okay, let me level with ya'. The only reason I want daggers on baseline Rev is because Claw of the Khan-Ur fits the Renegade aesthetic so well that NOT putting them on it would be a crime.

[draxynnic.3719]

@"narcx.3570" said:It would only work to add a 2H or OH weapon to the revenant's current kit without completely replacing either sword or mace.

There's a reason you see almost no builds using 2 different MH weapons other than for Conquest/Dueling utility, and that's because MH weapon skills all have cool downs that are less than a weapon swap, which makes it pointless to swap to a different weapon unless you need some sort of utility (like say Guardian sw2 tele, or a cc skill, etc.)You'll just camp whichever MH does the most damage, since there's literally no reason to swap out of it. The only exception to this rule is with warrior builds, but that's because they have a 5 second weapon swap.

This means that if they wanted to add scepter or pistol as a MH or whatever, it would have to, right out of the gate, outperform either sword as a power weapon or mace as a condi weapon--or nobody would even use it. And if it was stronger than sword or mace, I'm sure the QQ-OP-tears would start flowing. The flip side of that would be that they add it and it's not as good as sword/mace, and then we'd be subjected to hundreds of daily threads on the revenant forums about how "OMG SCEPTER IS WURST THAN SHORTBOW 2!!! QQQQQQ."

Seems a narrow viewpoint to me.

There are reasons to use weapons beyond simply "which does the most damage". It's generally accepted, for instance, that ranged weapons will do less damage than melee weapons, or have some other drawback, to account for the increased utility of having a ranged attack. There are a number of builds, now and in the past, which have MH/OH in both sets, generally one ranged and one melee, or one being more offensive while the other is more defensive.

Heck, similar observations apply to most builds making use of weaponswaps. The classic power herald, for instance, uses sword/sword for damage and staff mostly for utility (although Surge of the Mists can produce a damage spike if you set it up right). A condition-oriented MH ranged weapon would allow condition heralds and core revenants to have a condition-oriented weapon to swap to, rather than the current paradigm of loading sword even though it's a power weapon and relying on traits to inflict damaging conditions.

[Doctor.1384]

Core Rev needs more weapons in general but ill be mad if the next espec weapon is anything but greatsword. Ranged mainhand weapon isnt priority right now.

[narcx.3570]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@"narcx.3570" said:It would only work to add a 2H or OH weapon to the revenant's current kit without completely replacing either sword or mace.

There's a reason you see almost no builds using 2 different MH weapons other than for Conquest/Dueling utility, and that's because MH weapon skills all have cool downs that are less than a weapon swap, which makes it pointless to swap to a different weapon unless you need some sort of utility (like say Guardian sw2 tele, or a cc skill, etc.)You'll just camp whichever MH does the most damage, since there's literally no reason to swap out of it. The only exception to this rule is with warrior builds, but that's because they have a 5 second weapon swap.

This means that if they wanted to add scepter or pistol as a MH or whatever, it would have to, right out of the gate, outperform either sword as a power weapon or mace as a condi weapon--or nobody would even use it. And if it was stronger than sword or mace, I'm sure the QQ-OP-tears would start flowing. The flip side of that would be that they add it and it's not as good as sword/mace, and then we'd be subjected to hundreds of daily threads on the revenant forums about how "OMG SCEPTER IS WURST THAN SHORTBOW 2!!! QQQQQQ."

Seems a narrow viewpoint to me.

There are reasons to use weapons beyond simply "which does the most damage". It's generally accepted, for instance, that ranged weapons will do less damage than melee weapons,

or have some other drawback,

to account for the increased utility of having a ranged attack. There are a number of builds, now and in the past, which have MH/OH in both sets, generally one ranged and one melee, or one being more offensive while the other is more defensive.

Heck, similar observations apply to most builds making use of weaponswaps. The classic power herald, for instance, uses sword/sword for damage and staff mostly for utility (although Surge of the Mists can produce a damage spike if you set it up right). A condition-oriented MH ranged weapon would allow condition heralds and core revenants to have a condition-oriented weapon to swap to, rather than the current paradigm of loading sword even though it's a power weapon and relying on traits to inflict damaging conditions.

If you actually read what I said, I was talking about MAINHAND WEAPONS. Not swapping to a 2H or swapping OH's...

This is an important distinction because mainhand weapon skills have a cooldown of less than ten seconds, making it pointless to swap between them UNLESS IT'S FOR UTILITY like I said in my original post. -.-

It sort of doesn't even matter because (aside from people getting to fashion warzzz different weapons), a ranged MH condi weapon would add nothing productive to condi herald or core gameplay, since 1) you already have more pokes that you have the energy to spam (mace 2/3, banish enchantment, axe5 and 2) almost all non-renegade-condi-synergy requires you to be in close range anyways (ua/etd/diabolic/maniacal/pulsating). The only thing a ranged mh condi weapon would give you is the ability to medium range auto attack some (likely) light torment, which isn't going to be even close to enough to make a difference, you'd still honestly be better off just camping mace, using sword for the defense/might/chillspam, or keeping staff for the insane utility.

And as I said in another post, if your new MH weapon was utility focused, those 2/3 skills would have to be ridiculously awesome to justify losing staff for it--even for condi players.

[DonArkanio.6419]

In my opinion Revenant really needs some new Main-hand and Off-hand weapons to choose from.

Shield is called a support weapon but we know it does its poorly - needs tweaks.

Off-hand utility, that's what Rev doesn't have and could really make use of. I'd love something like Focus or Torch, or even a Warhorn. It could've been a scrapped Dagger.

As for mainhand, Scepter would do the job since it would really give Revenant that Magic feeling. Right now its theme is actually very magical but the weapons don't depict it very well, to me.

Ofc we are talking about adding these weapons to Core Rev.

[draxynnic.3719]

@narcx.3570 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@narcx.3570 said:It would only work to add a 2H or OH weapon to the revenant's current kit without completely replacing either sword or mace.

There's a reason you see almost no builds using 2 different MH weapons other than for Conquest/Dueling utility, and that's because MH weapon skills all have cool downs that are less than a weapon swap, which makes it pointless to swap to a different weapon unless you need some sort of utility (like say Guardian sw2 tele, or a cc skill, etc.)You'll just camp whichever MH does the most damage, since there's literally no reason to swap out of it. The only exception to this rule is with warrior builds, but that's because they have a 5 second weapon swap.

This means that if they wanted to add scepter or pistol as a MH or whatever, it would have to, right out of the gate, outperform either sword as a power weapon or mace as a condi weapon--or nobody would even use it. And if it was stronger than sword or mace, I'm sure the QQ-OP-tears would start flowing. The flip side of that would be that they add it and it's not as good as sword/mace, and then we'd be subjected to hundreds of daily threads on the revenant forums about how "OMG SCEPTER IS WURST THAN SHORTBOW 2!!! QQQQQQ."

Seems a narrow viewpoint to me.

There are reasons to use weapons beyond simply "which does the most damage". It's generally accepted, for instance, that ranged weapons will do less damage than melee weapons,

or have some other drawback,

to account for the increased utility of having a ranged attack. There are a number of builds, now and in the past, which have MH/OH in both sets, generally one ranged and one melee, or one being more offensive while the other is more defensive.

Heck, similar observations apply to most builds making use of weaponswaps. The classic power herald, for instance, uses sword/sword for damage and staff mostly for utility (although Surge of the Mists can produce a damage spike if you set it up right). A condition-oriented MH ranged weapon would allow condition heralds and core revenants to have a condition-oriented weapon to swap to, rather than the current paradigm of loading sword even though it's a power weapon and relying on traits to inflict damaging conditions.

If you actually read what I said, I was talking about MAINHAND WEAPONS. Not swapping to a 2H or swapping OH's...

This is an important distinction because mainhand weapon skills have a cooldown of less than ten seconds, making it pointless to swap between them

UNLESS IT'S FOR UTILITY

like I said in my original post. -.-

It sort of doesn't even matter because (aside from people getting to fashion warzzz different weapons), a ranged MH condi weapon would add nothing productive to condi herald or core gameplay, since 1) you already have more pokes that you have the energy to spam (mace 2/3, banish enchantment, axe5 and 2) almost all non-renegade-condi-synergy requires you to be in close range anyways (ua/etd/diabolic/maniacal/pulsating). The only thing a ranged mh condi weapon would give you is the ability to medium range auto attack some (likely) light torment, which isn't going to be even close to enough to make a difference, you'd still honestly be better off just camping mace, using sword for the defense/might/chillspam, or keeping staff for the insane utility.

And as I said in another post, if your new MH weapon was utility focused, those 2/3 skills would have to be ridiculously awesome to justify losing staff for it--even for condi players.

And my comments were aimed in that direction, pointing out that there are builds even in the current meta that have two different MHs because each MH offers different utility and is useful in different circumstances (range versus melee being a big one). I digressed by pointing out that this is usually the thinking behind most weaponswaps, regardless of whether you're looking at a MH/OH set or a single 2H weapon.

I know a lot of people have a "melee is all you need" fetish, especially in the revenant community due to sword and mace having limited ranged capability and due to the state of hammer (outside of WvW) and shortbow, but having access to a ranged autoattack is useful in a number of situations. At the moment, condition revenants that aren't renegedes simply don't have a viable option for that (even trait procs benefit from having a high attack rate, and hammer is built around a small number of large hits, so you don't get many trait procs off it).

A ranged weapon doesn't need to out-DPS a melee weapon to have situations when it's useful. In fact, it generally shouldn't, except in cases where the benefit of the melee weapon is more defensive skills rather than more damage. It just needs to offer a viable ranged option in situations where relying on melee is awkward. If it provides better DPS than relying purely on the ranged skills in sword and mace, but less than you can get by getting into someone's face with a sword or mace and letting rip with everything, it would probably be in the right ballpark.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

should we get something for free?yes we should get something for free.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:should we get something for free?yes we should get something for free.

Hope this wasnt an attempt at guilt shaming