Why are some rewards essentially "anchors"?

[Invisible Pete.7290]

Just finished The Dragon Bash Experience and was "rewarded" with the Commander's Victorious Holographic Wings back item. For me the only "reward" aspect of this was unlocking the new skin. Since I had unlocked the skin, I looked at my various options for this item:

1. Save it for use in crafting a better version of this item - does not apply to this item.
2. Sell it on the trading post - not possible as it is" account bound" (which also applies to anything "soul bound")
3. Sell it to a vendor - not possible as it has no listed value for a vendor (unlike the "junk" trophies we can sell to a vendor)
4. Salvage it for materials - not possible as it turns red when attempting to salvage
5. Save it for an alt - not worth it as it as I can easily outfit my alts with Ascended back items in preference to Exotic items
6. Save it for the Mystic Forge - not worth it as I would still need to use a storage slot until I had 3 more "useless" exotics, and then hope to trade 4 useless items on the highly improbable chance of getting something useful.
7. Right-click and "destroy"

True, I received a skin, but then why not simply reward the skin instead of an item. Checking the Wiki shows that acquiring this item is how you unlock the skin. In this particular instance the "reward" does not fit the effort invested. For example, the Holographic Dragon Helm allowed one to chose the weight (Light/Medium/Heavy), then unlocked the skins for all three weights regardless of the weight chosen, and could be sold to a vendor for 3 silver and 30 copper or salvaged for materials.

This is not the first time that I and others have run into the issue of rewards being anchors. Anyone who has leveled up has gotten equipment for their character that also runs through the aforementioned options, frequently ending with number 7. So much for said item actually being a reward, it has simply become something else to weigh one down and waste one's time. For example, opening a bag and getting a gathering tool (axe/pick/sickle) for a character with infinite gathering tools - only option is to destroy it (especially since infinite gathering tools are now account bound).

What I don't understand is why any "reward" can eventually become an anchor. At the very least, everything should have at least a vendor value so one can remove it from their inventory, but still feel like it is a "reward" in some fashion. A reward should offer options - not be a dead weight.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Well, we aren't all 'veterans', and may have a use for Exotic gear.
If the item itself seems bothersome, consider it a throw-away container that held the skin.

[Invisible Pete.7290]

True.

However, the point is that a reward should be rewarding regardless of player's level of experience

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, we aren't all 'veterans', and may have a use for Exotic gear.

If the item itself seems bothersome, consider it a throw-away container that held the skin.

Or it could be Ascended and benefit those who aren't.

[Gop.8713]

I just wish there was some consistency. If an item cannot be vendored, salvaged, forged or tped that should be used as an indicator to the player that it has some further use and should not be discarded. If an item has no use beyond itself then at least one of those means of disposition should be available . . .

[Rasimir.6239]

@Invisible Pete.7290 said:True.

However, the point is that a reward should be rewarding regardless of player's level of experienceIt is. It's rewarding you with a new skin you can't get another way.

For some people (namely those that don't have acsended back items coming out of their ears, which are surprisingly many) the reward is double rewarding, giving them a skin as well as a useful back item that helps them catch up to us veterans more quickly.

Personally I like the idea of giving out rewards that reward everyone while at the same time helping to bridge the gap between older and newer players without being over the top. An ascended back item for a festival achievement seems too much for my taste (besides most of us veterans are drowning in those anyway and would at best salvage it), while skin only would take away a useful reward from newer players without giving the veterans anything more (aside from the satisfaction of staying way ahead of the newer players, which isn't really healthy for the game in my opinion).

[Vayne.8563]

Either you like the skins and you're going to use them, or choose 5 joibreakers and use them as currency or sell them on the TP for 30 gold. There's a gold reward you can get, or one of the skins. Not sure what the issue is in this case.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Vayne.8563 said:Either you like the skins and you're going to use them, or choose 5 joibreakers and use them as currency or sell them on the TP for 30 gold. There's a gold reward you can get, or one of the skins. Not sure what the issue is in this case.

This thread is about the Meta-Achievement reward, Commander's Victorious Holographic Wings. Not about the Weapon/Jorbreaker box reward for the 5x Daily Achievement.

I don’t see much of a problem with the reward tbh, it unlocked the skin for me, which served it’s purpose. Some players have a use for an exotic back item with commander stats.

[Yannir.4132]

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Invisible Pete.7290 said:True.

However, the point is that a reward should be rewarding regardless of player's level of experienceIt is. It's rewarding you with a new skin you can't get another way.

For some people (namely those that don't have acsended back items coming out of their ears, which are surprisingly many) the reward is double rewarding, giving them a skin as well as a useful back item that helps them catch up to us veterans more quickly.

Personally I like the idea of giving out rewards that reward everyone while at the same time helping to bridge the gap between older and newer players without being over the top. An ascended back item for a festival achievement seems too much for my taste (besides most of us veterans are drowning in those anyway and would at best salvage it), while skin only would take away a useful reward from newer players without giving the veterans anything more (aside from the satisfaction of staying way ahead of the newer players, which isn't really healthy for the game in my opinion).

Personally I don't think that caters to all players regardless of experience. You should atleast be able to salvage it, or vendor it for a modest compensation. Some Exotics(like the ones you gain from the LW episode meta achievements) sell for as much as 1,5G which is a good enough compensation IMO.Now it is true you get the skin as a reward but it just feels bad when there's nothing else to do with it other than destroy it, then having to use a Transmutation Charge to actually use the skin.

[Danikat.8537]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, we aren't all 'veterans', and may have a use for Exotic gear.

If the item itself seems bothersome, consider it a throw-away container that held the skin.

I use exotic gear on most of my characters, but I found this backpack useless too because I don't need Commander stats for any of my characters and they can't be changed.

I definitely saw it as mainly a container for the skin (which I'm already using on one character) but it still seems like a waste to just delete the item, even though I have no use for it. I realise how arbitrary this is but if it could be sold to a vendor for a few silver or salvaged for a few materials that would be better than just deleting it.

(Although the OP did remind me to check if it can go in the Mystic Forge and if any of my characters have 3 exotics from level/story rewards which can be combined with it.)

[Taygus.4571]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, we aren't all 'veterans', and may have a use for Exotic gear.

If the item itself seems bothersome, consider it a throw-away container that held the skin.

That would only be a good point... IF it was stat selectable.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Of course....for those that care about stats, especially when just starting out.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Invisible Pete.7290 said:True.

However, the point is that a reward should be rewarding regardless of player's level of experience

Back pieces are the hardest accessory slot to fill. While you can buy/craft LV 80 exotic rings, amulets and ear rings, you can only craft LV 78 profession specific exotic back pieces. That means you either have to get a back piece via an achievement / reward, or purchase ascended versions.

Newer players will find a LV 80 exotic back piece to be a very welcoming reward. If there is a criticism to be made, it is that it isn't stat selectable.

[Cristalyan.5728]

@"Invisible Pete.7290" said:Just finished The Dragon Bash Experience and was "rewarded" with the Commander's Victorious Holographic Wings back item. For me the only "reward" aspect of this was unlocking the new skin. Since I had unlocked the skin, I looked at my various options for this item:

1. Save it for use in crafting a better version of this item - does not apply to this item.
2. Sell it on the trading post - not possible as it is" account bound" (which also applies to anything "soul bound")
3. Sell it to a vendor - not possible as it has no listed value for a vendor (unlike the "junk" trophies we can sell to a vendor)
4. Salvage it for materials - not possible as it turns red when attempting to salvage
5. Save it for an alt - not worth it as it as I can easily outfit my alts with Ascended back items in preference to Exotic items
6. Save it for the Mystic Forge - not worth it as I would still need to use a storage slot until I had 3 more "useless" exotics, and then hope to trade 4 useless items on the highly improbable chance of getting something useful.
7. Right-click and "destroy"

True, I received a skin, but then why not simply reward the skin instead of an item. Checking the Wiki shows that acquiring this item is how you unlock the skin. In this particular instance the "reward" does not fit the effort invested. For example, the Holographic Dragon Helm allowed one to chose the weight (Light/Medium/Heavy), then unlocked the skins for all three weights regardless of the weight chosen, and could be sold to a vendor for 3 silver and 30 copper or salvaged for materials.

This is not the first time that I and others have run into the issue of rewards being anchors. Anyone who has leveled up has gotten equipment for their character that also runs through the aforementioned options, frequently ending with number 7. So much for said item actually being a reward, it has simply become something else to weigh one down and waste one's time. For example, opening a bag and getting a gathering tool (axe/pick/sickle) for a character with infinite gathering tools - only option is to destroy it (especially since infinite gathering tools are now account bound).

What I don't understand is why any "reward" can eventually become an anchor. At the very least, everything should have at least a vendor value so one can remove it from their inventory, but still feel like it is a "reward" in some fashion. A reward should offer options - not be a dead weight.

I agree and I will salute any ANet initiative for giving any item obtained ingame a vendor value.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Well, we aren't all 'veterans', and may have a use for Exotic gear.

If the item itself seems bothersome, consider it a throw-away container that held the skin.

It may be true that a new player can have some (temporary) use of an exotic gear. But what about some lvl 5 / 7/ 11 blue trinkets you can drop from the bags obtained from Mawdrey II / Princess / Start of Gratitude etc? You cannot sell / salvage. A lvl 7 blue ring has no use for someone who already have such eater. You are left with the "Option 7". The good thing is that you don't have to confirm the destruction by typing the name. :#

[Khisanth.2948]

Even if 3 and 4 were not true the amount you could get out of that would be tiny. Worse case scenario you get a scrap of gossamer ...

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Invisible Pete.7290 said:True.

However, the point is that a reward should be rewarding regardless of player's level of experience

Back pieces are the hardest accessory slot to fill. While you can buy/craft LV 80 exotic rings, amulets and ear rings, you can only craft LV 78 profession specific exotic back pieces. That means you either have to get a back piece via an achievement / reward, or purchase ascended versions.

Newer players will find a LV 80 exotic back piece to be a very welcoming reward. If there is a criticism to be made, it is that it isn't stat selectable.

You can also buy lv80 exotic back items with karma

[FrizzFreston.5290]

The experience to destroy your reward just as you have gotten it is a bit counterintuitive. Not just this item but many others are simply items to provide you with an exotic and a new skin AND nothing else.

Some cant be vendorred, cant be salvaged and cant even be mystically forged. I find those fairly annoying tbh. All these indestructable items need a salvage into whatever festival reward or other material that is appropiate.

Ofcourse its just a minor annoyance, but hopefully also an easy option when creating new items.

I rather have them not make more of these.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Khisanth.2948 said:Even if 3 and 4 were not true the amount you could get out of that would be tiny. Worse case scenario you get a scrap of gossamer ...

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Invisible Pete.7290" said:True.

However, the point is that a reward should be rewarding regardless of player's level of experience

Back pieces are the hardest accessory slot to fill. While you can buy/craft LV 80 exotic rings, amulets and ear rings, you can only craft LV 78 profession specific exotic back pieces. That means you either have to get a back piece via an achievement / reward, or purchase ascended versions.

Newer players will find a LV 80 exotic back piece to be a very welcoming reward. If there is a criticism to be made, it is that it isn't stat selectable.

You can also buy lv80 exotic back items with karma

Ah, yes, I see that - the temple vendors. Didn't know that, ty! Though the available stat combos aren't that vast: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spineguard#item16

Are there other vendors that offer LV 80 exotic back pieces?

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I know a few sources to get an exotic backpiece for a new player. Some are cheaper than others, it mostly depends what the player is looking for and what he is willing to pay. My first exotic backpiece in GW2 was the Guild Assassin Backpack ^^.

Guild Commendations from Guildmissions (+ 5 gold)Guild Armorer/Guild Commendation Trader

• Guild Caretaker Backpack
• Guild Assassin Backpack
• Guild Defender Backpack

Laurel VendorLiving World Season 1 Rewards, 25 Laurels + 15 gold

• Sclerite Karka Shell

TPNote: When I have a new player who is working on his first exotic set, I usually pick one of those. Most important, you can pick the stats you want.

• Lucky Great Ram Lantern
• Lucky Great Monkey Lantern
• Lucky Great Rooster Lantern
• Lucky Great Dog Lantern
• Lucky Great Boar Lantern

You can also purchase the Fractal, WvW and sPvP backpieces with the currencies + a few gold. But the ones listed above can be acquired with a lot less effort. In case of the Lanterns, all you need is gold.

[Edelweiss.4261]

Salvage it for materials - not possible as it turns red when attempting to salvage

Wait, what? I'm 99% certain I salvaged it. I remember getting 2 ectos and 1 dark matter. Did they change this at some point?

[Danikat.8537]

If I remember correctly back items, and especially level 80 back items, were intentionally rarer than all other equipment. As far as I remember when the game was released the only ones available were from the temples in Orr and rare drops from dungeons and none of them had skins attached. That's one reason there was so much excitement around the Mad Memoires collection during the first Halloween - it was the first back item with a skin and relatively easy to get, especially for low level characters.

They've continued that theme, with most back items coming from achievements, collections, festival rewards etc. but now there's a lot more of them (including the craftable ones which made low level backpacks much more accessible).

So I can see why it might be useful for newer players who haven't had the opportunity to get a level 80 exotic backpack. But even then I think the use is limited - even I saw getting to level 80 and putting together my first full set of exotics as the time to actually think about getting the right stats and I'm a casual players who could probably have gotten away with using whatever. But my thinking was if I do it right then I only need to do it once and can stop worrying about it. (Which worked, I used the same helm and shoulders right up until I replaced them with ascended, about 5 years later. I'd swapped out the other pieces earlier, but those two I never changed until I realised I may as well get on and finish the set.) So unless I actually wanted commander's stats I'd only be using this one until I was able to get something with the right stats on it.

@Edelweiss.4261 said:

Salvage it for materials - not possible as it turns red when attempting to salvage

Wait, what? I'm 99% certain I salvaged it. I remember getting 2 ectos and 1 dark matter. Did they change this at some point?

Are you thinking of the holographic helm? I'm fairly certain that one could be salvaged, but the holographic wings can't be.

Incidentally the wings can't be put in the Mystic Forge either, but on the plus side they don't require you to type out the name to delete them, just click yes in a confirmation window.

[Zaklex.6308]

Are you telling me you don't have enough room in your bank for one little item(among all the other ones)...and I believe that it also unlocked all 3 skins(just like the Helm), did it not?

[Invisible Pete.7290]

Thanks, all, for your comments!

Just some clarification:

1. I am grateful for the skin. Thanks, ArenaNet!
2. I am also frustrated about continuing to be "rewarded" with items that basically have right-click and destroy as a means of removing from inventory - something which has been going on since I started playing GW2 when it first came out.
3. If we focus solely on this particular item, we all benefit from gaining a new skin. People who can use the back item also gain that benefit. People who do not need another back item can not gain any further benefit, and are now actually hampered with deciding what to do with it (refer back to original post and it's 7 options).
4. If we compare it to a similar "reward" (as I originally did), the question now becomes, why did the back item offer a skin and only the option to use it as a back item; whereas, the helm provided THREE skins as well as the options to use as a helm, sell to a vendor, or salvage? There is an apparent inconsistency here, and I would like to know why.

[Danikat.8537]

I don't know if this applies to this item but I think sometimes it's possible someone at Anet has made a mistake when creating a new item and given it the wrong 'item type' or otherwise set parameters wrong (not sure of the right wording because I don't know what their process is).

The Mini Kormeerkat for example. It's a gem store item so the only way to get it is to buy it and it's account bound on acquire. Like all mini pets it's purely a cosmetic item - it has no purpose except to assign it as your current mini and have it follow you around, and because it's a gem store mini it cannot be put in the mystic forge. When you buy it the skin is automatically unlocked in your wardrobe so you can assign that mini on all your characters, but you also get an item version in your inventory. That item is useless in 100% of cases. It does nothing the unlocked skin cannot do, has no other use and can only be disposed of by right-click destroy and then typing in the name. I'm fairly certain that was unintentional and it should have worked like most other gem store minis where buying it gives you the item then you right-click to add it to the wardrobe which deletes the item.

[Linken.6345]

@Edelweiss.4261 said:

Salvage it for materials - not possible as it turns red when attempting to salvage

Wait, what? I'm 99% certain I salvaged it. I remember getting 2 ectos and 1 dark matter. Did they change this at some point?

That was the helm not the backpack