Perma-Invis Thieves are back

[Naxos.2503]

Fact is, many classes still lack in the way of detection. That's a needed counterplay, The fact they removed scrapper detection pulse is Not helping. Atleast add detection back to the function gyro ? or to the Bulwark Gyro ? I dont know, you've got possibilities

[Caedmon.6798]

They only run perm invis cus everyone else is blobbing and ganking and running with minimum 10 people. Baddies will be baddies,if you get caught out thats on you,stop crying.Or just ask for more people to kill that one guy like you bunch usually do.

[Nidome.1365]

@Straegen.2938 said:Poster is referencing the Deadeye Malicious Backstab thief build that use the Shadow Meld elite. Thief stealths up, positions behind a player typically one that is injured, marks them, lands backstab, pops Shadow Meld to instantly kill the reveal and restealth, stomps. With a macro running the entire process along with some extra assurances is a one button press affair.

No the poster is not referencing Deadeyes.

Vanilla thief - went into stealth when I and one other approached to kill his catapult. He then did a constant stream of condi damage until I went down without him being revealed at any time. I used all of my condi clears etc.He appeared for a blink of an eye when he finished me and instantly restealthed. He then did the same to my ally.

At least with the old permastealth build the occasional AOE chill or fear would occasionally give you a window when they failed to restealth or their stealth CD was extended. Neither worked in this case.

[ZhouX.8742]

@Nidome.1365 said:

@Straegen.2938 said:Poster is referencing the Deadeye Malicious Backstab thief build that use the Shadow Meld elite. Thief stealths up, positions behind a player typically one that is injured, marks them, lands backstab, pops Shadow Meld to instantly kill the reveal and restealth, stomps. With a macro running the entire process along with some extra assurances is a one button press affair.

No the poster is not referencing Deadeyes.

Vanilla thief - went into stealth when I and one other approached to kill his catapult. He then did a constant stream of condi damage until I went down without him being revealed at any time. I used all of my condi clears etc.He appeared for a blink of an eye when he finished me and instantly restealthed. He then did the same to my ally.

At least with the old permastealth build the occasional AOE chill or fear would occasionally give you a window when they failed to restealth or their stealth CD was extended. Neither worked in this case.

It's called learn the thief class and learn the condition build and you won't have issues fighting against them once you know how to fight them.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Mil.3562 said:But, apparently perma stealth is not good enough for trolling and this is why now they are given a 5000 range portal.

Previously shadow trap actually did 10k range.

I think there are more thieves popping up because they are interested in testing the changes and new preparation lines, which is only natural. Smoke screen is somewhat interesting, I actually use it primarily not for it's smoke field for stealth, but for blinds/cleave/res/block missile, and for the first time I've been able to replace sigil of agility and keep brawling without the reliance of stealth or evading but there is honestly a lot more testing to do before I can even get to the changes on other classes. I'm not entirely sure of anet's take on the changes, but the result is a lot of thieves out there messing with stealth and condi as a result, but we will see in the next few weeks where thief meta goes. I think most of what is around now is those weekend trolls taking builds to the deep end.

[Joshewwah.2956]

@Nidome.1365 said:

@Straegen.2938 said:Poster is referencing the Deadeye Malicious Backstab thief build that use the Shadow Meld elite. Thief stealths up, positions behind a player typically one that is injured, marks them, lands backstab, pops Shadow Meld to instantly kill the reveal and restealth, stomps. With a macro running the entire process along with some extra assurances is a one button press affair.

No the poster is not referencing Deadeyes.

Vanilla thief - went into stealth when I and one other approached to kill his catapult. He then did a constant stream of condi damage until I went down without him being revealed at any time. I used all of my condi clears etc.He appeared for a blink of an eye when he finished me and instantly restealthed. He then did the same to my ally.

At least with the old permastealth build the occasional AOE chill or fear would occasionally give you a window when they failed to restealth or their stealth CD was extended. Neither worked in this case.

What weapon was that core thief using for condi?

[DemonSeed.3528]

I had an old thief build that only used specific condi in stealth and would not reveal, it might be really deadly now because back then the condi dmg wasn't stellar. Maybe it's time to pull it out again and see the effectiveness. I've seen a few condi thieves, but not ones using stealth to apply condi like my older build. It would be scary to see if that build became viable now. I do wonder what weaponset they were using, but if they are applying condi's from stealth, it would not be from weapons but from steal and skills. Deadeye usually would be my goto for this, but daredevil and core could probably pull it off too now. Will test.

[Xervite.5493]

Give stealth a shimmering visual effect during movement instead of being completely invisible.

[Documental.5946]

for/10char

[Doug.4930]

The thing people barely ever consider when talking about nerfing stealth further is that thieves need something else to replace stealth if its taken away/changed

If you want stealth reworked/gone thats fine and a valid opinion.But you better be ok with thieves having a higher health pool/barriers/invulns/blocks/damage mitigation/protection access etc that most other classes have.

According the most recent polls thieves aren't even in the top 4 roaming/1v1/1vX classes at the moment, and that's WITH stealth the way it is presently.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Jaruselka.5943 said:Have you tried running a Scrapper with detection pulse? Oh wait..

Seriously Anet.. stop maining thieves when you play balance...

Ha! Anet mains thievs meanwhile there is paint marker trap and trick, marked debuff at sentrys and keeps alike, 5 classes can reveal. Pull the other 1 dude.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Doug.4930 said:The thing people barely ever consider when talking about nerfing stealth further is that thieves need something else to replace stealth if its taken away/changed

If you want stealth reworked/gone thats fine and a valid opinion.But you better be ok with thieves having a higher health pool/barriers/invulns/blocks/damage mitigation/protection access etc that most other classes have.

According the most recent polls thieves aren't even in the top 4 roaming/1v1/1vX classes at the moment, and that's WITH stealth the way it is presently.Yeah cause its not like they can almost permadodge with staffstomp or teleport bounce around like gummibears on crack or anything like that.

[DemonSeed.3528]

What mechanic could stealth in this game be replaced with? How would that affect pve side of things as well?I'd love to see a gummibear on crack, or even gumby.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Oh my God this again. If they cant be a great dueler give them this lol with classes like warrior and holo existing ur complaing about a stealth thief that can be one shot by any skill? Learn to avoid the backstab or counter them and if ur not a new player they should only be able to get u once as once u kno their around u can counter and easily kill them

Avoid and counter require you to know they were there. Got hit with a 15,849 pt malicious backstab from stealth. While I have 20k health, was fighting a camp so was a few thousand health down already, and went instant downed. Attacks from stealth and 16K burst are both common in the gamemode, but they should never be combined.

[geist.4126]

@Documental.5946 said:

@Xervite.5493 said:Give stealth a shimmering visual effect during movement instead of being completely invisible.

You do that you might as well just delete it.

Both options would improve the game a lot. So choose one.

And no, thieves aren't helpless without stealth. They still are more mobile than anyone else.

[Dayra.7405]

@Ben.2160 said:Perma-invis thieves?

Never seen one.

Maybe is has become more difficult (or just different, i.e. a new rota to be learned) to be >Perma-invis, so they are spotted now more often?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@geist.4126 said:

@Documental.5946 said:

@Xervite.5493 said:Give stealth a shimmering visual effect during movement instead of being completely invisible.

You do that you might as well just delete it.

Both options would improve the game a lot. So choose one.

And no, thieves aren't helpless without stealth. They still are more mobile than anyone else.

All stealth focused builds as well as alot of other builds do rely on stealth for survival and no being more mobile isn't close to enough to keep thief viable if all things were kept the same except the removal of stealth. Ur just a biased baby that got killed by one and it hurt ur feels:) their not even known as good duelers as it is lmao I'm sure ud like ur fav class deleted to right?

[geist.4126]

I normally don't get killed by thieves. But the skill needed to abuse stealth is on the lower side. And the stealth mechanic in GW2 is the worst in any mmorpg out there. It's utter trash and has gotten to a point were it's ridiculously easy to abuse.And maybe you should check your spelling before you post something on a forum. It's hard to read when someone switches between you're, your and their, they're and doesn't even know what he means.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@geist.4126 said:I normally don't get killed by thieves. But the skill needed to abuse stealth is on the lower side. And the stealth mechanic in GW2 is the worst in any mmorpg out there. It's utter trash and has gotten to a point were it's ridiculously easy to abuse.And maybe you should check your spelling before you post something on a forum. It's hard to read when someone switches between you're, your and their, they're and doesn't even know what he means.

Using low skill and being abused are bad and useless arguements. Even with a build spec'd for stealth it still requires more set up than most of the braindead burst that are being used on most classes and have just as bad if not far worse punishment if failed. It doesnt take much brains or skill to constantly cc and cleave someone to death while laying on the ground as a warrior/holo with crazy sustain, spam condi's as mirage or spam condi's at ur feet as scourge while rushing someone or tagging peeps in zergs lol or pew pew people for half their hp before leaping in to finish them if u even need to as a soulbeast or burn everyone down in seconds while having great sustain as a weaver etc etc. Every class has a few op bursts that can be abused, some with high sustain in skills/hp others with low innate sustain but have mobility and stealth as it's always been. And I type fast and dont edit much cuz figure for most part point gets accross anyway but sry if my misspellings/mistyped words annoyed ya :) this is gw2 were talking about after all lol

[zinkz.7045]

Newsflash - The game was designed around conquest PvP and it is conquest that provides the balance to a lot of things that become faceroll / broken OP when roaming about in WvW (stealth, high ranged damage, high mobility, etc), if you think that is going to change after 7 years then well...

If you want skilled, balanced, competitive or even good PvP then you are playing the wrong game mode and frankly the wrong genre of game.

[Burnfall.9573]

Published on Oct 8, 2015'IT TAKES CHANGE TO MAKE CHANGE'

[geist.4126]

@zinkz.7045 said:Newsflash - The game was designed around conquest PvP and it is conquest that provides the balance to a lot of things that become faceroll / broken OP when roaming about in WvW (stealth, high ranged damage, high mobility, etc), if you think that is going to change after 7 years then well...

If you want skilled, balanced, competitive or even good PvP then you are playing the wrong game mode and frankly the wrong genre of game.

Obviously they do. Or what's the reason for putting reveal in the game? There are no traps in spvp.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@geist.4126 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:Newsflash - The game was designed around conquest PvP and it is conquest that provides the balance to a lot of things that become faceroll / broken OP when roaming about in WvW (stealth, high ranged damage, high mobility, etc), if you think that is going to change after 7 years then well...

If you want skilled, balanced, competitive or even good PvP then you are playing the wrong game mode and frankly the wrong genre of game.

Obviously they do. Or what's the reason for putting reveal in the game? There are no traps in spvp.

And they just removed the best reveal in the game from the one spec that usually ran it. Not sure whose argument that boosts, but I'd vote for @zinkz.7045

[Doug.4930]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:Newsflash - The game was designed around conquest PvP and it is conquest that provides the balance to a lot of things that become faceroll / broken OP when roaming about in WvW (stealth, high ranged damage, high mobility, etc), if you think that is going to change after 7 years then well...

If you want skilled, balanced, competitive or even good PvP then you are playing the wrong game mode and frankly the wrong genre of game.

Obviously they do. Or what's the reason for putting reveal in the game? There are no traps in spvp.

And they just removed the best reveal in the game from the one spec that usually ran it. Not sure whose argument that boosts, but I'd vote for @zinkz.7045

Just here to say that the Lock on trait is the best reveal in the game. Revealing on hit and revealing on CC being two independent cool downs tied to a single trait of which both have a 25 second CD is an amazing trait. Any Holosmith running tools should win 99% of the time against a thief at the moment.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:Newsflash - The game was designed around conquest PvP and it is conquest that provides the balance to a lot of things that become faceroll / broken OP when roaming about in WvW (stealth, high ranged damage, high mobility, etc), if you think that is going to change after 7 years then well...

If you want skilled, balanced, competitive or even good PvP then you are playing the wrong game mode and frankly the wrong genre of game.

Obviously they do. Or what's the reason for putting reveal in the game? There are no traps in spvp.

And they just removed the best reveal in the game from the one spec that usually ran it. Not sure whose argument that boosts, but I'd vote for @zinkz.7045

Just here to say that the Lock on trait is the best reveal in the game. Revealing on hit and revealing on CC being two independent cool downs tied to a single trait of which both have a 25 second CD is an amazing trait. Any Holosmith running tools should win 99% of the time against a thief at the moment.

All right all right...2nd best then :tongue:

But I still think removing Aegis is a strong value add.