Free RNG items

[yann.1946]

I can't claim my free Knife Tail Hunting Gang because i'm from belgium.

Can we make it so the free items can be taken as they wouldn't really fall under the gambling law?

[Sirius Lemuria Draconis.78]

Already submitted a ticket for the same reason, it's quite unfair. Next thing we know is we can't even get the unidentified stuff as loot anymore as well...

[Khisanth.2948]

@yann.1946 said:Can we make it so the free items can be taken as they wouldn't really fall under the gambling law?

That is probably not true ... for example the casinos around here has free shuttle buses that takes people to the casino and provides some free chips too. All gambling laws probably still applies to those free chips.

[Aaralyna.3104]

The Knife Tail Hunting Gang is kinda equivalent of a Black Lion Key. Except you also have to kill a bunch of mobs 1st to get the "black lion chest 2.0" dropped. And when you open that its 100% rng with gem items and random stuff like dyes. Either key as Knife Tail Hunting Gang can be purchased... So there you have the explanation as to why Belgium is excluded.

Could they have been more thoughtfull even creating this, probably.... But it will sell them like hotcakes just for same reason we got gambling boxes.

[yann.1946]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@yann.1946 said:Can we make it so the free items can be taken as they wouldn't really fall under the gambling law?

That is probably not true ... for example the casinos around here has free shuttle buses that takes people to the casino and provides some free chips too. All gambling laws probably still applies to those free chips.

Do they? I mean it's impossible to check whether the chips you have came from the free ones or not so it makes sense to act like they are all bought.

But it seems improbable that it would still fall under gambling.(otherwise all rng thing could fall under gambling which seems like a big step backward)

[yann.1946]

@"Aaralyna.3104" said:The Knife Tail Hunting Gang is kinda equivalent of a Black Lion Key. Except you also have to kill a bunch of mobs 1st to get the "black lion chest 2.0" dropped. And when you open that its 100% rng with gem items and random stuff like dyes. Either key as Knife Tail Hunting Gang can be purchased... So there you have the explanation as to why Belgium is excluded.

Could they have been more thoughtfull even creating this, probably.... But it will sell them like hotcakes just for same reason we got gambling boxes.

Well I understand why Belgium is excluded from buying them. But not why we can't get the free one.

[anninke.7469]

@"yann.1946" said:

Well I understand why Belgium is excluded from buying them. But not why we can't get the free one.

Isn't it considered "gambling promotion" or something like that? Like a casino giving a bunch of free tokens? (Although I'm not sure what that would be taken as.)

[FONGORE.7410]

@anninke.7469 said:

@"yann.1946" said:

Well I understand why Belgium is excluded from buying them. But not why we can't get the free one.

Isn't it considered "gambling promotion" or something like that? Like a casino giving a bunch of free tokens? (Although I'm not sure what that would be taken as.)

Pretty much a gambling event. Friend & me logged in to do it. She got a griffon mount & I received a sword skin. Not 5 minutes after we got them we both were like "Meh RNG". Then logged out to play another game, due to the lack of excitement over the rng gambling.

[Super Hayes.6890]

This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

[Ashen.2907]

Well, the people of Belgium, via their reprentative government, chose to not have the items in question. If I tell the guy at the restaurant that I dont want onions on my burger I will certainly not complain if my burger arrives without onions.

[Justine.6351]

@Super Hayes.6890 said:This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

Lolwhat?

They could sell those things called expansions instead of dumping resources into a cash shop. Calling this rng key thingy content is embarrassing. This is not a government blocking content lol...

[yann.1946]

@Ashen.2907 said:Well, the people of Belgium, via their reprentative government, chose to not have the items in question. If I tell the guy at the restaurant that I dont want onions on my burger I will certainly not complain if my burger arrives without onions.

To ber fair, thee lootbox thing was never an election point. It's like telling your waiter you like more letucce on less tomatoes and he returns with a burger without onions

[Ashen.2907]

@yann.1946 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Well, the people of Belgium, via their reprentative government, chose to not have the items in question. If I tell the guy at the restaurant that I dont want onions on my burger I will certainly not complain if my burger arrives without onions.

To ber fair, thee lootbox thing was never an election point. It's like telling your waiter you like more letucce on less tomatoes and he returns with a burger without onions

Everything is an election point in western republics/democracies. The laws were not surprises. The discussions were public. The populace chose to not make it clear to the policy makers that this subject would cost votes in the next election. In fact the populace, including gamers, celebrated the laws/policies. Well, if you choose to outlaw a product you have no justification for complaint that you cannot legally buy it any longer.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@FONGORE.7410 said:

@anninke.7469 said:

@"yann.1946" said:

Well I understand why Belgium is excluded from buying them. But not why we can't get the free one.

Isn't it considered "gambling promotion" or something like that? Like a casino giving a bunch of free tokens? (Although I'm not sure what that would be taken as.)

Pretty much a gambling event. Friend & me logged in to do it. She got a griffon mount & I received a sword skin. Not 5 minutes after we got them we both were like "Meh RNG". Then logged out to play another game, due to the lack of excitement over the rng gambling.

That's how I feel about it. I'm not going to spend gems on them.

[kasoki.5180]

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

Actually it is Anet problem. They decided not to comply with Belgian laws and simply decided its easier to remove service from belgian players.

Anet had the option - comply with the law or dont do business in the jurisdiction. They chose the latter since its easier.

If anything rest of us outside of belgium should fight that this becomes legal standard so companies cant just go "lol dont care, we have other markets"

Also, same industries across the world usually have similar regulation or regulation based on same core principles.Arguments about negative effects of legal particularism dont really work any more in 21century.

This is purely a matter of convinence and size of market. If US had the same laws or there were regulations on EU level, gaming companies would comply the very same moment

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

Actually it is Anet problem. They decided not to comply with Belgian laws and simply decided its easier to remove service from belgian players.

Anet had the option - comply with the law or dont do business in the jurisdiction. They chose the latter since its easier.

If anything rest of us outside of belgium should fight that this becomes legal standard so companies cant just go "lol dont care, we have other markets"

Also, same industries across the world usually have similar regulation or regulation based on same core principles.Arguments about negative effects of legal particularism dont really work any more in 21century.

This is purely a matter of convinence and size of market. If US had the same laws or there were regulations on EU level, gaming companies would comply the very same moment

Well if those other countries across EU decide to take the same direction as Belgium (and there is a growing number looking seriously at the issue of gaming/gambling addictions) then things might begin to change.I have said it before, ANET are not as bad as other gaming companies as they do make allowances for players to avoid the gambling option by placing personal choice options instead of RNG boxes for some things (mounts etc), but that has also be met with players complaining about the cost of convenience so ANET can't win either way. Add to that they introduced the statuettes system, which could be expanded to allow direct sale of statuettes.. but yeah this new gamble box is a step in the wrong direction imo and kinda feels desperate to me....

[Calistin.6210]

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

No this is a gaming industry problem. The fight should be to get all the countries around the world to follow Belgium's example to force game companies to stop promoting gambling in game, and it doesn't matter if they try to conceal the gambling nature of it by calling it "surprise mechanics".

All this could be very simple to avoid if the RNG boxes would just die off already. If they wanna sell rare items then just sell them instead of making people "gamble" for them.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Your arguements fail to persuade me. I can buy this particular content with in game gold and it is completely optional. I'm not hindered in the gameplay without the contents of these items. Were they required for me to progress in the game then your arguements become extremely relevant. Anet loot boxes are completely different from the gaming industries loot boxes. Belgium has failed to acknowledge the difference and the players there are excluded due to the "blanket fix" against what is percieved to be the same as all other in game gambling. Still a Belgium problem, not Anet. I sympathize but cannot agree with those opposed to me here so far. To be clear, I don't like RNG content much either.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

Actually it is Anet problem. They decided not to comply with Belgian laws and simply decided its easier to remove service from belgian players.

Anet had the option - comply with the law or dont do business in the jurisdiction. They chose the latter since its easier.

If anything rest of us outside of belgium should fight that this becomes legal standard so companies cant just go "lol dont care, we have other markets"

Also, same industries across the world usually have similar regulation or regulation based on same core principles.Arguments about negative effects of legal particularism dont really work any more in 21century.

This is purely a matter of convinence and size of market. If US had the same laws or there were regulations on EU level, gaming companies would comply the very same moment

No this is where it's a poor decision to involve government. Players are already empowered to support this type of business by not buying these items if they don't like the process. Lack of sales will drive changes in how/what can be acquired. We don't need government for this and when you do involve them you run into what the OP is facing. And sorry OP but as stated above you should be writing to your government to get this changed. Again if this was a drug company that is purposely increasing prices on drugs people need to be able to live that's quite different. These are optional cosmetic items that before some players were blocked by laws their government put into place people could acquire from ingame currency. We don't need government for that, sorry.

I am writing my government to say stay out of this, focus on things we need government for like clean air and water topics that affect millions of people. If you are getting to these laws while people are dying because of drug companies they had better start to look for new employment now before the elections.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Kurrilino.2706 said:Believe it or not, i support the Belgium treatment here in CanadaAny kind of Gemstore needs to be banned to force companies to put their effort where it belongs, to new content.I you wanna make additional money, you better sell expansions.

You see the problem here is gamers. Gamers bemoaned the practice of having to pay subs and that's how we got here to optional sales. We as gamers are our own worst enemy. Running the servers alone costs money and if you added that into the price of the expansions than people would moan about how much the expansions costs. So what are you for? Monthly charges, higher priced expansion or optional sales with expansions on the side? Or do you want them to charge us for each new map that is released as part of the living story? So you are planning on players having to buy a new expansion every two months. Not sure that will go well.

Don't get me wrong, I am for expansions but when I choose to buy from the store I do just that, I choose to. And even at that point I have a choice, convert in game currency to gems or use cash. People are already empowered in this case, they have the tools already at hand, use them.

[Ashen.2907]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

Actually it is Anet problem. They decided not to comply with Belgian laws and simply decided its easier to remove service from belgian players.

Anet had the option - comply with the law or dont do business in the jurisdiction. They chose the latter since its easier.

If anything rest of us outside of belgium should fight that this becomes legal standard so companies cant just go "lol dont care, we have other markets"

Also, same industries across the world usually have similar regulation or regulation based on same core principles.Arguments about negative effects of legal particularism dont really work any more in 21century.

This is purely a matter of convinence and size of market. If US had the same laws or there were regulations on EU level, gaming companies would comply the very same moment

Removing a banned product from the area where it is legally banned is compliance with the law.

[Calistin.6210]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

Actually it is Anet problem. They decided not to comply with Belgian laws and simply decided its easier to remove service from belgian players.

Anet had the option - comply with the law or dont do business in the jurisdiction. They chose the latter since its easier.

If anything rest of us outside of belgium should fight that this becomes legal standard so companies cant just go "lol dont care, we have other markets"

Also, same industries across the world usually have similar regulation or regulation based on same core principles.Arguments about negative effects of legal particularism dont really work any more in 21century.

This is purely a matter of convinence and size of market. If US had the same laws or there were regulations on EU level, gaming companies would comply the very same moment

No this is where it's a poor decision to involve government. Players are already empowered to support this type of business by not buying these items if they don't like the process. Lack of sales will drive changes in how/what can be acquired. We don't need government for this and when you do involve them you run into what the OP is facing. And sorry OP but as stated above you should be writing to your government to get this changed. Again if this was a drug company that is purposely increasing prices on drugs people need to be able to live that's quite different. These are optional cosmetic items that before some players were blocked by laws their government put into place people could acquire from ingame currency. We don't need government for that, sorry.

I am writing my government to say stay out of this, focus on things we need government for like clean air and water topics that affect millions of people. If you are getting to these laws while people are dying because of drug companies they had better start to look for new employment now before the elections.

No, that's an overly simplistic view of things. It's like saying beer, drugs and prostitution should not have any laws to regulate or make it illegal cause people can "police" themselves just fine. History has shown again and again that simply isn't the case.

Please don't try to make it a case of the government trying to be our nannies or taking our freedoms away cause it's not that at all.

[Xanadrine.4352]

@Super Hayes.6890 said:This isn't an Anet problem. This is a Belgium government problem. That is where you need to take this fight OP. Gaming companies cannot be expected to work around all the laws of every people group. It would be impossible to keep up with the constant changes. I hope they change their laws to be more... useful and relevant because you really shouldn't be blocked from this content. Just remember that Belgium is blocking you not Anet.

Oh it is too a game problem. If they would change their loot boxes it wouldnt be considered gambling. I find it reprehensible that players support this kind of thing.

[Windslider.2876]

@"yann.1946" said:Can we make it so the free items can be taken as they wouldn't really fall under the gambling law?

The free one doesn't fall under the gambling law. Because the buying process doesn't involve any real money. Therefore, the free one is legal in our country. That's why I have open a topic in the bug forum section for the same issue (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/85121/gem-store-bug-not-able-to-reddeem-the-free-knife-tail-gang-hunting-bond) . Its a Gem Store design issue not a legislation problem !

Remove the paid banned product is compliance with the law, prevent us to receive the free legal one is a bug in the Gem Store !

[Blanche Neige.7241]

Can't you connect to the game via a VPN? That way the game will think you are not in Belgium.