[Merged] Oh cool you must buy more build slots

[Asum.4960]

So from what I gathered so far, instead of Anet having it's own president, a position MO held until recently, it is being headed by Chris Corry, NCSoft chief development officer for Western operations, who previously worked at companies such as EA, Zynga and Kabam, which apparently focused on developing Mobile and Facebook "MMOs with an emphasis on the spending and gambling of virtual currency." , in association and backed by Tencent.

If that is the case, then the direction of the heavy handed monetisation of the Template feature isn't all that surprising and rather should be an indication of further things to come, possibly indicating that "the milking phase" unfortunately has come into to full swing.

Obviously I hope I'm being wrong there and maybe we get some more information about the studio structure going forward at some point, but I'm definitely not surprised anymore how they could have thought this would be okay.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@"Asum.4960" said:If that is the case, then the direction of the heavy handed monetisation of the Template feature isn't all that surprising and rather should be an indication of further things to come, possibly indicating that "the milking phase" unfortunately has come into to full swing.

How is it heavy handed when it follows the same monetisation structure as other convenience systems that have been in the game since launch ?

[Asum.4960]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"Asum.4960" said:If that is the case, then the direction of the heavy handed monetisation of the Template feature isn't all that surprising and rather should be an indication of further things to come, possibly indicating that "the milking phase" unfortunately has come into to full swing.

How is it heavy handed when it follows the same monetisation structure as other convenience systems that have been in the game since launch ?

Because what you get for the same proposed price tags is way too limited.This isn't 400 gem Bag Slot Expansions, in which you can put a 20 Slot+ bag each, rather than from what they discussed on stream, a single Loadout slot, up to a maximum of 6.Imagine the only way to increase Inventory size was to buy them one by one like Shared Inventory slots, just for each character.

If what they had discussed and shown on stream was 400-600 Gems for 10 to 20 Template Slots, there wouldn't be an issue here, in which case it would be comparable.For the Gear Templates that price tag might be fine, as well as the limit of 6.For the rest, the system is way too limited, and single Template/Loadout Slot unlocks, per character I might add, for Bag/Bank slot pricing is ridiculous.

I get that Anet is not very connected at all to the hardcore scene of their own game, but they have to realise that a good amount of us has 10 to 20+ templates per character currently. To take that away to then charge 400-600 gems for single Template Slots per Character, with a maximum of 6 per character shows a disconnect and level of greed beyond anything else in the Gem Store to this date.

[Tiviana.2650]

Hmm well thats what you get when you have people on the forums saying to sell it as slots. Personally i think its something that should be part of the core base of the game, but w/e. As another poster pointed out, if you are charging for things that should be part of the game there is a problem, and its a slippery slope into whats next. How long till p2w comes up? The shop needs to be for cosmetics not for gameplay.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Obtena.7952 said:snips

just butting in for a sec. on the subject of needing templates, I think you're technically right but wrong in practice.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

Build template slots are a better qol than getting another character slot. Its also easier now to change stats on legendary with that fantastic check box they added recently. Everyone complains about anet trying to make a buck, and i know they are, but you at least have a choice to grind gold to get them, if money isnt something you dont want to spend. The arc argument is ridiculous simply for the fact it was made by fans, who probably dont want to mess with it anymore.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"Asum.4960" said:If that is the case, then the direction of the heavy handed monetisation of the Template feature isn't all that surprising and rather should be an indication of further things to come, possibly indicating that "the milking phase" unfortunately has come into to full swing.

How is it heavy handed when it follows the same monetisation structure as other convenience systems that have been in the game since launch ?Sure, it's exactly as monetized as how the wardrobe rework was...oh wait

(no, it's not the same as what has been in the game since launch. For me, the difference is clear as day, and i am very sad that some people are unable to see it)

[Ayakaru.6583]

@susana.7814 said:

@yoni.7015 said:Some people just have to get offended and cry about it. Even when it is about people getting paid for their work.

They already get paid for their work. this isn't going to give devs extra pay, this is 100% going to the money grubbing people at the top.

Development costs moneyOh gosh, what a concept. Why won't the company give us everything for free??

[Asum.4960]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@susana.7814 said:

@"yoni.7015" said:Some people just have to get offended and cry about it. Even when it is about people getting paid for their work.

They already get paid for their work. this isn't going to give devs extra pay, this is 100% going to the money grubbing people at the top.

Development costs moneyOh gosh, what a concept. Why won't the company give us everything for free??

Glad we can keep this straw man alive on every page.

While free templates would obviously be nice, considering they are pretty much a core game functionality needed by hardcore players, them not being free is entirely fine.Them costing 5-8€ per template (the bag/bank tab pricing they mentioned), when some players have 10+ essential templates on each character for 9 professions, isn't. Even more so considering we are getting charged for 3 different slots for the same thing.

So a single build could run you around 10-24€. Multiplied by 10 per character (or even just 6, if they never extend the too few maximum slots they showcased so far, which is a whole other issue), multiplied by 9 per profession.. you see where this is going and how it's ridiculous, especially for hardcore players, right?

Being upset with that prospect doesn't make anyone entitled, neither does it mean they want "everything for free".Not wanting to pay literally hundreds of euros for a small baseline feature such as this, at least to me, seems quite reasonable. Especially since the only viable alternative is, understandably, being taken away.

[Taygus.4571]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@susana.7814 said:

@yoni.7015 said:Some people just have to get offended and cry about it. Even when it is about people getting paid for their work.

They already get paid for their work. this isn't going to give devs extra pay, this is 100% going to the money grubbing people at the top.

Development costs moneyOh gosh, what a concept. Why won't the company give us everything for free??

people want to pay.

but they want to pay fair cost, not a prohibitively high cost that essentially make the feature useless for the people who build swap the most and potentially pushes players away because its unaffordable to play the builds they are used to playing.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@susana.7814 said:

@"yoni.7015" said:Some people just have to get offended and cry about it. Even when it is about people getting paid for their work.

They already get paid for their work. this isn't going to give devs extra pay, this is 100% going to the money grubbing people at the top.

Development costs moneyOh gosh, what a concept. Why won't the company give us everything for free??

people want to pay.

but they want to pay fair cost, not a prohibitively high cost that essentially make the feature useless for the people who build swap the most and potentially pushes players away because its unaffordable to play the builds they are used to playing.

Yea, i get what you mean.But he person i replied to with that "strawman" sounded like any act of asking for money is a corporate grubbing

[Tsakhi.8124]

Ya'll should be happy that ya'll're aren't in the Saw movies or Se7en.... In all seriousness, I will wait and see how things develops before I make a definitive observation.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I'm okay with 3 free templates per char, I wouldn't mind more but as long as the price is reasonable I don't mind. I'm looking forward to build templates, seems like a very nicely designed system to me!Reasonable price for me would be max 400 Gems per Template slot.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@"Tiviana.2650" said:As another poster pointed out, if you are charging for things that should be part of the game there is a problem, and its a slippery slope into whats next. How long till p2w comes up?

It's pretty obvious at this point that there will be a portion of this community that would defend that too, just like everything else. Using the same tired "devs gotta eat" strawman.

Corporate fandom is a real thing and it's often pointless trying to argue against.

[Zin Dau.1749]

Why can't it be free? They create new episodes and make it free (for limited time )

This is not even content. It's just Data of combinations. Each class has over half a million of combinations just from traits. Not even counting the skills (probably similar ridiculous high number ). Yeah they are "So Generous" allowing us save 3 whole combinations! We really should prostrate ourselves and kiss their boots for such Magnanimity. (What a joke )

[sasya neko.1985]

i see it this way, they again add a feature that GW already has for quite some time and even found a way to get money out of it.classic new Anet, more money for little work and innovation.

[Obtena.7952]

@Zin Dau.1749 said:Why can't it be free? They create new episodes and make it free (for limited time )

No, they aren't free ... they come with the purchase of the expansion. It's irrelevant how you want to label it. Calling it a 'data of combinations' isn't a reason to make it free. That doesn't make sense.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

You dont have to buy more build slots. You can buy characters slot instead. That how i by-passed this so called build problem. 16 and counting. 32 if you count my extra 4 accounts.

[Obtena.7952]

@Asum.4960 said:If that is the case, then the direction of the heavy handed monetisation of the Template feature isn't all that surprising and rather should be an indication of further things to come,

Let's hope so ... we don't need MMO's to breed the idea into people that they should get whatever they want for free just because they can think of any ridiculous excuse to do it. It would also be nice to see Anet be able to justified other developments of the game because that doesn't happen if their isn't any revenue.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Asum.4960" said:If that is the case, then the direction of the heavy handed monetisation of the Template feature isn't all that surprising and rather should be an indication of further things to come,

Let's hope so ... we don't need MMO's to breed the idea into people that they should get whatever they want for free just because they can think of any ridiculous excuse to do it.

We don't need MMOs to breed the idea into people that every single feature can be monetized, "because it's optional", and sold for way more money than a whole package of such features would have been sold several years ago either.No, the costs of developing features

for the same game

did not suddenly rise tenfold.

It would also be nice to see Anet be able to justified other developments of the game because that doesn't happen if their isn't any revenue.If more and more players will leave due to the increased monetization and cheap cash grabs, there won't be any reason for increased development either. Nor will there be any longterm revenue.

[Obtena.7952]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Asum.4960" said:If that is the case, then the direction of the heavy handed monetisation of the Template feature isn't all that surprising and rather should be an indication of further things to come,

Let's hope so ... we don't need MMO's to breed the idea into people that they should get whatever they want for free just because they can think of any ridiculous excuse to do it.

We don't need MMOs to breed the idea into people that every single feature can be monetized, "because it's optional", and sold for way more money than a whole package of such features would have been sold several years ago either.No, the costs of developing features

for the same game

did not suddenly rise tenfold.

OK ... I don't see how that is relevant to what is happening here. This is the first time Anet offered this service, so to imply it's 'rising tenfold' or selling for 'way more' than it was several years ago is just ridiculous.

If more and more players will leave due to the increased monetization and cheap cash grabs, there won't be any reason for increased development either. Nor will there be any longterm revenue.

Yeah ... IF ...

The fact is that anyone who plays this game reasonably expects Anet to continue to offer items on the GS. Anyone that doesn't ... probably isn't that big an impact if they did leave.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Obtena.7952" said:OK ... I don't see how that is relevant to what is happening here. This is the first time Anet offered this service, so to imply it's 'rising tenfold' or selling for 'way more' than it was several years ago is just ridiculous.A feature like that is a feature that once would have been a part of an expansion. It would not only cost only as much as an expansion, but in that price you would have obtained a lot of other things (including possibly some other features of that size and complexity).

Now, the same feature is monetized in such a way that to get it fully, you would need to pay ten times more than an expac would cost. And only for that feature, nothing more - in that price there will be no other stuff that an expac would have had.

No, unlike what you're trying to claim it's not because "poor devs need to eat". Nor is it because "devs do not want to work for free". Anet is simply trying to sell us less for more. And the simple reason for that is because it works. And it works only because we have been conditioned to not notice that, and think it's perfectly okay. Because people like you try to blindly defend those practices.

If more and more players will leave due to the increased monetization and cheap cash grabs, there won't be any reason for increased development either. Nor will there be any longterm revenue.

Yeah ... IF ...If you think that won't happen, you can sleep in peace. And not need to defend the current situation so desperately. After all, everything is fine, right?

[Obtena.7952]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:OK ... I don't see how that is relevant to what is happening here. This is the first time Anet offered this service, so to imply it's 'rising tenfold' or selling for 'way more' than it was several years ago is just ridiculous.A feature like that is a feature that once would have been a

part

of an expansion. It would not only cost only as much as an expansion, but in that price you would have obtained a lot of other things (including possibly some other features of that size and complexity).

Now, the same feature is monetized in such a way that to get it fully, you would need to pay ten times more than an expac would cost. And only for that feature, nothing more - in that price there will be no other stuff that an expac would have had.

No, unlike what you're trying to claim it's not because "poor devs need to eat". Nor is it because "devs do not want to work for free". Anet is simply trying to sell us less for more. And the simple reason for that is because it

works

. And it works only because we have been conditioned to not notice that, and think it's perfectly okay. Because people like you try to blindly defend those practices.

This thinking doesn't make sense. You get the base feature with a number of free build slots. It's the extra slots you pay for. I got some bad news for you ... that's a normal approach to offering many kinds of similar features in any game, including this one. Extra bank slots, extra bag slots, shared bags ... think about how those work... if you have a problem with this, where are all your threads complaining about Anet "selling us less for more" on those features? ... or are you just being selective? or maybe you got no idea what you are complaining about ...

This isn't 'conditioning' from Anet so players are blind to some kind of nefarious business practice ... it's you being unreasonable and saying just about anything no matter how ridiculous to try to make these 'practices' seem exceptional ... they are not. They are about as standard a practice as you can find in any industry. They sell goods and services ... customers can buy them. If you don't like the value proposition, you don't have to purchase.

If more and more players will leave due to the increased monetization and cheap cash grabs, there won't be any reason for increased development either. Nor will there be any longterm revenue.

Yeah ... IF ...If you think that won't happen, you can sleep in peace. And not need to defend the current situation so desperately. After all, everything is fine, right?

What can I say ... there isn't anything exceptional about a business offering goods and services and people paying for them if they want them. Sounds good from here. If there is desperation, it's in the voices of people that sensationalize and speculate the end of the world because of common business practice.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Obtena.7952" said:This thinking doesn't make sense. You get the base feature with a number of free build slots. It's the extra slots you pay for. I got some bad news for you ... that's a normal approach to offering many kinds of similar features in any game, including this one.Yes, it's exactly this way of thinking that got us into the mess we're in now.Extra bank slots, extra bag slots, shared bags ... think about how those work... if you have a problem with this, where are all your threads complaining about Anet "selling us less for more" on those features?On the old forums. Those that got decommisioned. And i do remember people telling me then, that i have nothing to worry about, after all, it's "only bank tabs", nothing major will ever get monetized that way - and it's only minor expenses anyway. Turns out, i was right all along.

or maybe you got no idea what you are complaining about ...Oh, i do have a very good idea about what i am complaining about. That's exactly why i am complaining.

This isn't 'conditioning' from Anet so players are blind to some kind of nefarious business practice ... it's you being unreasonable and saying just about anything no matter how ridiculous to try to make these 'practices' seem exceptional ... they are not. They are about as standard a practice as you can find in any industry.Yes. Today. There was a time when they weren't standard. Or at least hey weren't standard among the good games - only among the bad games people were using as comparison to show how the good games are way better.

What can I say ... there isn't anything exceptional about a business offering goods and services and people paying for them if they want them. Sounds good from here. If there is desperation, it's in the voices of people that sensationalize and speculate the end of the world because of common business practice.Cool, ripping off customers is a common practice, nobody cares about it except for a few sensationalists, and you have nothing to worry about. Just don't be surprised in the future.

[Menadena.7482]

@Arkantos.7460 said:the option to buy slots for builds was very clear from beginning....

Yes, it is pretty obvious too, especially for the gear templates. I am just hoping the cost is reasonable, like 100 gems or so to open another gear slot for all your characters. Partly because while I know what is my main now it may be another character eventually and I would want them to have the slots.