Constructive Feedback concerning the upcoming native Templates

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:Wait a sec. in GW1 there wasn't an infinite amount of templates you could save. It only seemed that way because the build templates were restricted only to skills/attributes, and not gear. I don't remember exactly, but a separate code was used for armors, so you needed two codes to fully load out.There was no code for armor, only for attributes/skills. Nor there is a code for armor in GW2, by the way.

This template system in gw2 seems perfectly fine, and imitates exactly what gw1 didSure, 24 builds ve infinite amount is definitely very similar

Did you purposefully ignore the parenthesis after the sentence? I said i didn't remember if they had a code for armor or not....it was 10 years ago after all.

and okay, maybe there may not be a code for armor in gw2, but we still get codes for builds, which is still infinite...not sure why you are limiting it to 24...you can WRITE the code on a document on your computer...thats how we did it in gw1.

[Trise.2865]

Couldn't agree more. They should just scrap it.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

If I need more than 3 character or 6 account build slots, I will copy-paste the build template code into a word processor. Sure, it could take more work than a one-click build system. I'm OK with that.

As far as equipment templates go, I might not need more than the two we'll be getting. I do wonder something, though. We currently get two (a PvE/WvW one and PvP one). If I put PvE/WvW condition and direct damage gear sets into 2 equipment slots, will that mean I will have to remove one of those if I play PvP (not that I do that often, but I am curious)? If that is the case, I might end up getting a 3rd slot for characters I would PvP with who also have a second non-PvP gear set. If the 2nd equipment template is independent of PvP gearing, then I will rarely if ever want a third gear setup. Apologies if I've missed this.

As is often the case with the gem store, it seems as if ANet is again telling me that I am not in their targeted customer demographic. I usually have no personal issues with that. If ANet wants to market to players who are willing to spend on pricey mount skins or pricey bundles, that's fine with me. However, the template system is not targeting bigger spenders. With the templates, ANet seems to be targeting a specific game-play preference demographic -- the people who have gotten used to one-click switching in game modes where that matters to them.

If that is the case, as it seems to be, then I have to wonder about the revealed facts pertaining to the system. If the target demographic is that specific, why is the system demonstrably inferior to the 3rd party system that demographic has been using? This seems to be true with respect both to limits on templates and Legendary functionality. Maybe ANet is expecting highly-committed players to farm gold to get the templates they want, and is counting on this to fuel revenue from those buying gems for gold. Again, though, why make the system as is so unappealing to the group at whom it seems to be targeted?

[ruikarikun.9402]

As I understand each character will have 3 slots? And other you can buy? If so it's enough I think.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

Looks like a convoluted mess. For me - I don't see any value in the system they presented. I'm sure there will be people who'll get value from it and good for them. Its just a shame that they can't even do a system as well as a third party programmer could do.

[Krzysztof.5973]

Just remove the equipment template part with gear storing to make it similar to Arc's which will allow us to use infinite templates. I don't feel like spending ~3600 gems on each character (+2400 per account ) just to get somewhat closer to something that was already free.

[Metasynaptic.1093]

Paying anything for user interface changes is a dangerous precedent. It's a no from me, at any price.

[Rubius.9280]

Wanted to give a +1 to the OP for a great post that outlines a lot of concerns regarding the templates.

Love the game, have really enjoyed the raid and WvW scene for the last couple of years, but am very worried that these changes will either limit my guild's options or force us to spend a lot of cash to continue. (Especially with gear templates.)

Was also a little sad to see that Legendary Armor will require additional gear templates for every adjusted configuration, as this is a big (and expensive) step down from what the ArcDPS templates were able to provide. Thanks for reading and fingers crossed that perhaps some of the feedback on the thread is considered!

[Operator.2590]

Ah, yes—wasn’t long until Delta’s templates made it back into the debate. Was interesting while it lasted at least.

[Astralporing.1957]

Well, they did confirm every single problem we expected to have with the system. I'm not sure, though, why they mentioned they "collected the feedback", if that had exactly zero impact on anything.

[Nick.5276]

Well my guess once it's released - The game loses about half of it's regular raiders due to the new template system. It's just not worth it to players to pay to configure their builds and gear for the new lesser system. They'll just pack it in.Good news for GW2 dev's, no need to make more raid content. So overall the quality of the game drops as we lose those people who essentially stress test the system.

The system will confuse, annoy and infuriate the rest of the players as it is to bitsy to manage but they are forced to adapt to a new way of organising their gear, builds etc.

New people will come to the forums asking how this could happen since they wern't aware of the impact it would have on them till it lands in their laps and re-organises everything.

The fun factor will evaporate in a period of WTF? How do I use this? Why do we have it? I liked playing the way it was before, Why do i have to learn a whole new way of playing "Manage your inventory 2.0" It was fine before.

A lot has been said about "Most people won't notice or will like the new options" however if there is one common thread in "Most people" it's that they don't deal with change well. This change is not optional. You cannot opt out.

GW2 is for playing for fun and for "Most people" that does not include learning the intricacies of a multi-part gear/build management system and then discovering they will have to pay, in real time*, to gain more of it in the hope it improves.

*whether its RL money, or game currency, it's just an exchange of actual time

Nick

[Lateralis.5701]

Adding my own voice to this, to reiterate what others have said:

• 6 max slots for builds or equipment is not enough. This is barely enough for some classes if you raid (even discounting any minor changes) but if it also includes WvW builds/equipment the but absolutely not enough.
• Legendary armour doesn't take up additional inventory space, so it is a bit of a slap in the face to go through the hassle and expense of making legendary armour and then have to spend additional money on equipment once Tory space, which is completely useless
• There is no real reason why build templates are strictly limited to 6, when this can be saved as a simple string and hard drive storage is cheap. This is a problem solved by gw2skills.net for years. This could also be saved as a local text file, as per GW1.

For me, one of the most insidious things is the cost of Build Templates.

The rational for charging for Equipment Templates makes some sense if it effectively adds some character storage. However, charging for Build Templates which have no such feature is an appalling and shameless money grab.

This whole thing is a shambles for the people who would benefit the most from this feature.

And it is an amazing insult to all the people who have given genuine and constructive feedback over the last few weeks but have been completely ignored, for Stephane to say "we've listened to your feedback." Well, that's nonsense, because you haven't.

Genuinely, genuinely, I wish they hadn't developed build templates, and I say that as someone who has wanted build templates for 7 years.

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:This template system in gw2 seems perfectly fine, and imitates exactly what gw1 didSure, 24 builds ve infinite amount is definitely very similar

To be fair, build templates were not infinite in gw1. Back then, the max was 550.So this is 24 vs 550 :p

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:This template system in gw2 seems perfectly fine, and imitates exactly what gw1 didSure, 24 builds ve infinite amount is definitely very similar

To be fair, build templates were not infinite in gw1. Back then, the max was 550.So this is 24 vs 550 :p

But it’s not 24....there is a kitten code....just like gw1 so it’s exactly the same as gw1...why do people not understand this?

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:This template system in gw2 seems perfectly fine, and imitates exactly what gw1 didSure, 24 builds ve infinite amount is definitely very similar

To be fair, build templates were not infinite in gw1. Back then, the max was 550.So this is 24 vs 550 :p

But it’s not 24....there is a kitten code....just like gw1 so it’s exactly the same as gw1...why do people not understand this?

Of course we can (and we will) store chat codes externally by using a word or excel file for example. But that solution is a bypass of Anet system which is limited to 24 max IN GAME (see the description of build storage).In gw1 you could have up to 550 build templates IN GAME available via the iu (and these templates were text files stored on your computer, so client-side).

So you can't really say this is like gw1.

[phokus.8934]

This is just blatantly obvious they developed build templates with monetization first.

How ANet is pushing this QOL feature out is going into the book of “What not to do in a video game.”

And they also need to stop with the “we’ve listened to your feedback” because they clearly didn’t and don’t.

[Trise.2865]

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Well, they did confirm every single problem we expected to have with the system. I'm not sure, though, why they mentioned they "collected the feedback", if that had exactly zero impact on anything.

Because the system is basically already finished and a couple of weeks isn't long enough to reverse course, considering how long it took them to build.

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@Trise.2865 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Well, they did confirm every single problem we expected to have with the system. I'm not sure, though, why they mentioned they "collected the feedback", if that had exactly zero impact on anything.

Because the system is basically already finished and a couple of weeks isn't long enough to reverse course, considering how long it took them to build.

Sure, but they could at least tell us if they would modify something later based on the feedbacks.

During this month they have to work on fixing somes bugs (mentioned in the guildchat) like items deleted when put in the templates..

[Astralporing.1957]

@Trise.2865 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Well, they did confirm every single problem we expected to have with the system. I'm not sure, though, why they mentioned they "collected the feedback", if that had exactly zero impact on anything.

Because the system is basically already finished and a couple of weeks isn't long enough to reverse course, considering how long it took them to build.So, the system is already finished, and they have no intention of making any changes to it. Again, then, why even bother mentioning the feedback if it has no impact on anything?

[phokus.8934]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Trise.2865 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:Well, they did confirm every single problem we expected to have with the system. I'm not sure, though, why they mentioned they "collected the feedback", if that had exactly zero impact on anything.

Because the system is basically already finished and a couple of weeks isn't long enough to reverse course, considering how long it took them to build.So, the system is already finished, and they have no intention of making any changes to it. Again, then, why even bother mentioning the feedback if it has no impact on anything?

Honestly at this point the only thing that they should change would be the cost of unlocking the additional slots. Because right now if they go by costs of bags then the price is completely outrageous.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Having a separate build template for minor changes is a bit excessive.

Depends on the game mode.

@Astralporing.1957 said:So, the system is already finished, and they have no intention of making any changes to it. Again, then, why even bother mentioning the feedback if it has no impact on anything?

Hope dies last, and there is always room for future improvements.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:This template system in gw2 seems perfectly fine, and imitates exactly what gw1 didSure, 24 builds ve infinite amount is definitely very similar

To be fair, build templates were not infinite in gw1. Back then, the max was 550.So this is 24 vs 550 :p

But it’s not 24....there is a kitten code....just like gw1 so it’s exactly the same as gw1...why do people not understand this?

Of course we can (and we will) store chat codes externally by using a word or excel file for example. But that solution is a bypass of Anet system which is limited to 24 max IN GAME (see the description of build storage).In gw1 you could have up to 550 build templates IN GAME available via the iu (and these templates were text files stored on your computer, so client-side).

So you can't really say this is like gw1.

Ya but that’s a minor minor difference...what is important here is the code...not whether you were able to store it in game or not.

Just look at skin codes in the game currently...people have no issues copy pasting skin codes from the wiki do they? It’s literally the smallest nitpick...

[Juan.6124]

@"Biermeister.4678" said:Reasons why GW2 does not need Build Templates

1. This is not Guid Wars 1

Other MMOs have also templates.

2. All main skills are Weapon based not profession based

A build consits of weapon skills, utility skills and traits.

3.Not everyone has Legendary equipment they would have to implement selectable stats on all equipment

What does legendary gear have to do with templates? You can have different exotic/ascended sets for different builds. Legendary gear even loses one of its big features, freeing up inventory space. With gear templates your inventory will be free from gear just by simply paying gems.

4. WvW and PvP already have separate builds

Yet. Those seperate builds will be removed. Why do you think we will get 3 build slots? Because one is for pvp, one for wvw and one for open world. You will have to activly load your wvw build if you want a different build for that mode. If you play those 3 game modes on one character the 3 build slots you gain will be occupied by the 3 builds you have right now.

[Operator.2590]

• Op asks for constructive criticism, feedback, and suggestions.
• Stays true to the thread's purpose for a while, was pleasantly surprised.
• Thread slowly devolves into whining, complaining, and comparisons--which is the opposite of the thread's purpose.

Sorry Asum, you tried.

[zealex.9410]

All these shoupd be acount bound and have a cap of 100 at least.