Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@viquing.8254 said:ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....

Just noting that the balance of a trait is not static if it was balanced at one point. Traits can become stronger or weaker if the class that leverages them becomes stronger,weaker, or more or less adept, and a trait being relatively complaint free at its inception does not guarantee that a new balancing patch will not make it a problem.

[viquing.8254]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Sorry but a stunt, knockdown and float (and in a less impactfull way : knockback, launch and pull) are way stronger than a daze because you can't evade the next burst/attack without breakstunt. (The day they remove the stunt on F3 in domi on power mesmer, you will have 50% less chance to burst someone for example.)The different ins't minimal.

ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....

And thank god it was removed.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@viquing.8254 said:ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....

Just noting that the balance of a trait is not static if it was balanced at one point. Traits can become stronger or weaker if the class that leverages them becomes stronger,weaker, or more or less adept, and a trait being relatively complaint free at its inception does not guarantee that a new balancing patch will not make it a problem.

Sincerly I think it's mainly due to the no mAt during summer state so plebs can't see how to adapt theirs builds.The CI hype started when we see a mirage going into semi by trolling players who faced this build for the first time so they don't know how to react. (Even in a Bo3 we would see counterpart.)I mean if everyone see this builds hardcountered/inefficient during mAt because yes it was possible, then this trait would have gone unused like usual.

Now the deletion put aside, we end up with one more dead trait which will probably be the case for the next 3 years considering EM state. Which is indeed bad...And I'm curious about you opinion on EM detailling how it's not static balancing for example (or about the glamour trait who were removed since more than a year now.)...

Hint : put glamour trait to replace CI.

[bravan.3876]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Sorry but a stunt, knockdown and float (and in a less impactfull way : knockback, launch and pull) are way stronger than a daze because you can't evade the next burst/attack without breakstunt. (The day they remove the stunt on F3 in domi on power mesmer, you will have 50% less chance to burst someone for example.)The different ins't minimal.

ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....

And thank god it was removed.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@viquing.8254 said:ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....

Just noting that the balance of a trait is not static if it was balanced at one point. Traits can become stronger or weaker if the class that leverages them becomes stronger,weaker, or more or less adept, and a trait being relatively complaint free at its inception does not guarantee that a new balancing patch will not make it a problem.

Sincerly I think it's mainly due to the no mAt during summer state so plebs can't see how to adapt theirs builds.The CI hype started when we see a mirage going into semi by trolling players who faced this build for the first time so they don't know how to react. (Even in a Bo3 we would see counterpart.)I mean if everyone see this builds hardcountered/inefficient during mAt because yes it was possible, then this trait would have gone unused like usual.

Now the deletion put aside, we end up with one more dead trait which will probably be the case for the next 3 years considering EM state. Which is indeed bad...And I'm curious about you opinion on EM detailling how it's not static balancing for example (or about the glamour trait who were removed since more than a year now.)...

Hint : put glamour trait to replace CI.

Viquing by all means and love but old CI was broken. You cannot adapt to an instant lock down you even need a stunbreak AND condiremove to get out. That is not even balanced when not using Mantra of Distraction because of the last reason. Instant range lock downs should not exist at all (in particular when they includes also an immob then even with cast it is not balanced), they can't be balanced no matter what. That rly is obvious logic. An instant range daze on the other side is no problem at all (as long as the daze duration is short, i think 1 sec should be enough) and here Viquing is absolutely right there is a big difference between a lock down hard cc like a stun, knockdown etc and a daze you can dodge and avoid follow up dmg without stunbreak. Not only is the daze effect way weaker, also the purpose of a daze is not a lock down to hit follow up dmg, the daze is mainly either defensive to avoid to get hit or to interrupt specific skills. A lock down is a killer mechanic that is balanced when well animated and with cast time like Warrior hammer skills for example. A daze as mainly interrupt tool on the other side needs to be instant and at least 900 range or you will not be able to interrupt fastcast keyskills, like there are a lot of heals with 0,5 secs or 0,75 secs cast time and that without considering any quickness uptime.

[ZDragon.3046]

@viquing.8254 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

I dont think the issue is it not having tells the issues is combined with all the other cc in warriors kit there is physically no way possible to avoid it all if chained together in a short enough time frame.

With that argument, shouldn't Mesmer lose a lot of its Daze?Mesmers stunlock me way more often than Warriors.

Meta warrior has more hard stuns then meta mesmer has dazes, And I dont think I have to explain the difference between how good a daze is and how good stun is, right?

Effectively they are both cc's the difference between daze and stun is minimal both are effective the real difference is is that warriors stuns do sizable damage and mesmers dazes do not (directly)

If mesmers Dazes did do heavy damage like that they wouldn't be acceptable either.

thats on top of warriors stuns removing boons.This bit is kind of irrelevant not every warrior has this only spellbreakers.

Sorry but a stunt, knockdown and float (and in a less impactfull way : knockback, launch and pull) are way stronger than a daze because you can't evade the next burst/attack without breakstunt. (The day they remove the stunt on F3 in domi on power mesmer, you will have 50% less chance to burst someone for example.)The different ins't minimal.

Depends on the cc imo. Some of them are pretty minimal.Knockback and pull for example are not that strong if you ask me. Launch is pretty strong because its basically knockback followed by knockdown. Yes you cant evade the next burst attack... (unless you are a mirage hue hue) but i mean daze is still pretty strong even more so if its a longer daze duration.

ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....Well first of all incorrectChrono's used CI for their one shot builds for a long time and i thought the trait was problematic back then but a 1 shot mesmer or chrono at the time didnt hold as much pressure or defensive of a play style as Mirage. IT was also power based and required at least some risk on the chrono's part to get the most effective damage.

Mirage using CI just grew way too quickly to a point that it was just BS in general no one liked being immobilized for 6-12 seconds while being dazed and having a crap ton of cover condi's to prevent the removal of that immobilize. CI was already strong in general using it with Mirage was just obnoxious.

The idea of hitting someone with a daze that will also immobilize them is generally not good for the game. Immobilize is in a way stronger condition than daze at times as it disables a persons ability to dodge... unless you are a mirage of course..

[ZDragon.3046]

@zoopop.5630 said:Hope Dps FireBrand gets looked into because at the moment stacking 1 full support fb and 1 dps firebrand is the most brain dead comp you can face.

They do need to be looked into yes. But mostly just the firebrand line and its mantras nothing more. They really dont need to go messing with core guardian too much as it is one of the best if not the best balanced core profession in the game.

I would always recommend guardian to a F2P player just because of this fact.ITs good at doing what you invest into while having clear cut weaknesses.

Firebrand is just way too over tuned and needs a bit more risk with its tomes without losing the power of the tomes maybe look at cutting mantra charges down by 1 in pvp and wvw. Would be where i suggest things start

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:Hope Dps FireBrand gets looked into because at the moment stacking 1 full support fb and 1 dps firebrand is the most brain dead comp you can face.

They do need to be looked into yes. But mostly just the firebrand line and its mantras nothing more. They really dont need to go messing with core guardian too much as it is one of the best if not the best balanced core profession in the game.

I would always recommend guardian to a F2P player just because of this fact.ITs good at doing what you invest into while having clear cut weaknesses.

Firebrand is just way too over tuned and needs a bit more risk with its tomes without losing the power of the tomes maybe look at cutting mantra charges down by 1 in pvp and wvw. Would be where i suggest things start

I laughed when I actually looked at what those thomes do, its preety much entire 3 new weapon sets for FB.there is engi peasant that runs with 1, Feelsbadbeingcoreengi.there is the rest of population with 2, and there is fuck everyonebrand with 5. :D

[ZDragon.3046]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:Hope Dps FireBrand gets looked into because at the moment stacking 1 full support fb and 1 dps firebrand is the most brain dead comp you can face.

They do need to be looked into yes. But mostly just the firebrand line and its mantras nothing more. They really dont need to go messing with core guardian too much as it is one of the best if not the best balanced core profession in the game.

I would always recommend guardian to a F2P player just because of this fact.ITs good at doing what you invest into while having clear cut weaknesses.

Firebrand is just way too over tuned and needs a bit more risk with its tomes without losing the power of the tomes maybe look at cutting mantra charges down by 1 in pvp and wvw. Would be where i suggest things start

I laughed when I actually looked at what those thomes do, its preety much entire 3 new weapon sets for FB.there is engi peasant that runs with 1, Feelsbadbeingcoreengi.there is the rest of population with 2, and there is kitten everyonebrand with 5. :D

The f1 tome is almost perfectly ok as they have very limited defense potential when using it. The best time to cc/attack firebrand is when they use tome of justice because they either have to end the tome or over commit to the tome while taking damage. There is a really limited amount of safety they can hold themselves to while using that tome.

The f2 and f3 tomes almost make them darn near immune to offensive pressure depending on the situation and these are the tomes i think need to really be looked into

Maybe upping the cool-downs on the more more potent skills so they cant easily be used multiple times in a single tome activation(unless you hold onto it for an extended period of time) while keeping the point system valid for the lesser skills like the first 2 or 3 to be used rapidly would help. Overall though im sure firebrand will get looked into probably not before the 19th but surely soon after.

[Fueki.4753]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:Hope Dps FireBrand gets looked into because at the moment stacking 1 full support fb and 1 dps firebrand is the most brain dead comp you can face.

They do need to be looked into yes. But mostly just the firebrand line and its mantras nothing more. They really dont need to go messing with core guardian too much as it is one of the best if not the best balanced core profession in the game.

I would always recommend guardian to a F2P player just because of this fact.ITs good at doing what you invest into while having clear cut weaknesses.

Firebrand is just way too over tuned and needs a bit more risk with its tomes without losing the power of the tomes maybe look at cutting mantra charges down by 1 in pvp and wvw. Would be where i suggest things start

I laughed when I actually looked at what those thomes do, its preety much entire 3 new weapon sets for FB.there is engi peasant that runs with 1, Feelsbadbeingcoreengi.there is the rest of population with 2, and there is kitten everyonebrand with 5. :D

And then there the Engineers that run with 6 sets around and the Holosmiths that can have access to 7.And don't forget Elementalists that have between 4 and 8 sets.

[viquing.8254]

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Sorry but a stunt, knockdown and float (and in a less impactfull way : knockback, launch and pull) are way stronger than a daze because you can't evade the next burst/attack without breakstunt. (The day they remove the stunt on F3 in domi on power mesmer, you will have 50% less chance to burst someone for example.)The different ins't minimal.

ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....

And thank god it was removed.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@viquing.8254 said:ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....

Just noting that the balance of a trait is not static if it was balanced at one point. Traits can become stronger or weaker if the class that leverages them becomes stronger,weaker, or more or less adept, and a trait being relatively complaint free at its inception does not guarantee that a new balancing patch will not make it a problem.

Sincerly I think it's mainly due to the no mAt during summer state so plebs can't see how to adapt theirs builds.The CI hype started when we see a mirage going into semi by trolling players who faced this build for the first time so they don't know how to react. (Even in a Bo3 we would see counterpart.)I mean if everyone see this builds hardcountered/inefficient during mAt because yes it was possible, then this trait would have gone unused like usual.

Now the deletion put aside, we end up with one more dead trait which will probably be the case for the next 3 years considering EM state. Which is indeed bad...And I'm curious about you opinion on EM detailling how it's not static balancing for example (or about the glamour trait who were removed since more than a year now.)...

Hint : put glamour trait to replace CI.

Viquing by all means and love but old CI was broken.What I don't really understand is how it go to the state of "never used niche trait" to "broken mecanic" in one day.I mean probably because mirage staff ambush work well on a immob target + the boosted CC uptime but that can't explain the day to day change alone.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@viquing.8254 said:ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....Well first of all incorrectChrono's used CI for their one shot builds for a long time and i thought the trait was problematic back then but a 1 shot mesmer or chrono at the time didnt hold as much pressure or defensive of a play style as Mirage. IT was also power based and required at least some risk on the chrono's part to get the most effective damage.Wut ?When there was a chrono one shot meta ?I mean apart for WvW exotic build I never saw a chrono burst pass plat1 back in time.Mirage using CI just grew way too quickly to a point that it was just BS in general no one liked being immobilized for 6-12 seconds while being dazed and having a kitten ton of cover condi's to prevent the removal of that immobilize. CI was already strong in general using it with Mirage was just obnoxious.The idea of hitting someone with a daze that will also immobilize them is generally not good for the game. Immobilize is in a way stronger condition than daze at times as it disables a persons ability to dodge... unless you are a mirage of course..Yeah but why did it became used suddenly ?

[ZDragon.3046]

@viquing.8254 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@viquing.8254 said:ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....Well first of all incorrectChrono's used CI for their one shot builds for a long time and i thought the trait was problematic back then but a 1 shot mesmer or chrono at the time didnt hold as much pressure or defensive of a play style as Mirage. IT was also power based and required at least some risk on the chrono's part to get the most effective damage.Wut ?When there was a chrono one shot meta ?I mean apart for WvW exotic build I never saw a chrono burst pass plat1 back in time.

It was played as pretty much just a +1 but...I guess it depends on how far back you look maybe it never became as popular as i thought but it was certainly around. As i said it had risk tied into it ideally if it failed to kill after the first 2 maybe 3 burst attempts it either died or it was forced to run away. That said chrono also had other builds it could use at the time mind you that would have been better suited to its defensive play style at the time.

But yeah CI power lock combos been a thing for a while long before mirage picked them up. Maybe it was niche but i do remember them long before the days of CI mirage and even before mirage period lol. You dont forget the pain of being stunned and immobilized at the same time that crud is just majorly annoying.

Mirage using CI just grew way too quickly to a point that it was just BS in general no one liked being immobilized for 6-12 seconds while being dazed and having a kitten ton of cover condi's to prevent the removal of that immobilize. CI was already strong in general using it with Mirage was just obnoxious.The idea of hitting someone with a daze that will also immobilize them is generally not good for the game. Immobilize is in a way stronger condition than daze at times as it disables a persons ability to dodge... unless you are a mirage of course..Yeah but why did it became used suddenly ?

Well the trait CI was already used for combo setups that said usually the setups were forcused in builds that were power damage and the mesmer using said build didnt have much sustain outside of kiting.

CI usage Possibly picked up over time after a few people discovered it worked very well with mirage just like firebrand is doing right now.The firebrand build people are complaining about has been around for a good long while it just has not been popular. Now its becoming the standard or reaching its peek in popularity which is why its now being seen as a bigger issue. I suspect the same thing happened with CI usage and mirage.

[bravan.3876]

@"viquing.8254" said:

What I don't really understand is how it go to the state of "never used niche trait" to "broken mecanic" in one day.It didn't in one day, it always was broken. The reasons why something still doesn't get used are so diverse, that the fact something didn't get used never says anything about how broken or unheathy soemthing is (in particual not in conquest, where everything also needs to fill a role and not only needs to be broken per se). Maybe something else was just more broken, maybe the broken mechanic is still useless for any role in conquest for whatever reasons, maybe you just couldn't find a working build around that broken mechanic that all in all was the best. Soemthign maybe just got overlooked until the point someone tried it successfully etc etc. Never ever was the fact that something didn't get used an indicator of how op, lame/ broken/ easy to use or unhealthy something is/was. There are simply too many possible reasons aside from it being op/ broken/ lame/ ez or not.

[Ghos.1326]

@bravan.3876 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:

What I don't really understand is how it go to the state of "never used niche trait" to "broken mecanic" in one day.It didn't in one day, it always was broken. The reasons why something still doesn't get used are so diverse, that the fact something didn't get used never says anything about how broken or unheathy soemthing is (in particual not in conquest, where everything also needs to fill a role and not only needs to be broken per se). Maybe something else was just more broken, maybe the broken mechanic is still useless for any role in conquest for whatever reasons, maybe you just couldn't find a working build around that broken mechanic that all in all was the best. Soemthign maybe just got overlooked until the point someone tried it successfully etc etc. Never ever was the fact that something didn't get used an indicator of how op, lame/ broken/ easy to use or unhealthy something is/was. There are simply too many possible reasons aside from it being op/ broken/ lame/ ez or not.

Finally, someone who understands this.I legit remember getting into a debate about an Engineer skill that is really really strong. Their argument was "well it's not even used in the meta currently." My response was "and?"Just because other things that are more powerful than that specific option are overshadowing the other strong option currently doesn't mean it's underperforming. Another example of this was Mirage in general. It has always been super strong. Just Scourge, at that point in time, was overperforming. And then when Scourge was nerfed back in the day, guess who came out of hiding to wreak havoc, even until this day? Condi Mirage.

[viquing.8254]

@Ghos.1326 said:guess who came out of hiding to wreak havoc, even until this day? Condi Mirage.

Holo ?Joke aside,

@bravan.3876 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:

What I don't really understand is how it go to the state of "never used niche trait" to "broken mecanic" in one day.It didn't in one day, it always was broken. The reasons why something still doesn't get used are so diverse, that the fact something didn't get used never says anything about how broken or unheathy soemthing is (in particual not in conquest, where everything also needs to fill a role and not only needs to be broken per se). Maybe something else was just more broken, maybe the broken mechanic is still useless for any role in conquest for whatever reasons, maybe you just couldn't find a working build around that broken mechanic that all in all was the best. Soemthign maybe just got overlooked until the point someone tried it successfully etc etc. Never ever was the fact that something didn't get used an indicator of how op, lame/ broken/ easy to use or unhealthy something is/was. There are simply too many possible reasons aside from it being op/ broken/ lame/ ez or not.

Back in time when mesmer haden't chaos strom on heal + had higher CD on MoD + hadn't linear ambush pressure, having a immob on a lock who rarely proc and who were instant clear wasn't a problem at all.That's probably why this trait wasn't used apart on niche testing builds.Now lock trait = few confusion from ineptitude, Power block who imo didn't worth it versus most encounter or slow and alacrity from chrono (who didn't game impact at all.). Which basically mean that lock mesmer didn't exist anymore. (and probably never exists for next years.).When I take a step back :

• casual want to rollface his keyboard : confusion overnerfed.
• casual want to rollface his keyboard : torment overnerfed.
• casual want to rollface his keyboard : lock builds dead.

Never casual take more condi clear, stability or stunbreak than the current copy/paste metabattle build of his class.Why not but don't cry if there is only passive gameplay left where player reaction has little to no impact like whe have now with current mirage.Btw it's easier to cry on forum it seems.

[bravan.3876]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:guess who came out of hiding to wreak havoc, even until this day? Condi Mirage.

Holo ?Joke aside,

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

What I don't really understand is how it go to the state of "never used niche trait" to "broken mecanic" in one day.It didn't in one day, it always was broken. The reasons why something still doesn't get used are so diverse, that the fact something didn't get used never says anything about how broken or unheathy soemthing is (in particual not in conquest, where everything also needs to fill a role and not only needs to be broken per se). Maybe something else was just more broken, maybe the broken mechanic is still useless for any role in conquest for whatever reasons, maybe you just couldn't find a working build around that broken mechanic that all in all was the best. Soemthign maybe just got overlooked until the point someone tried it successfully etc etc. Never ever was the fact that something didn't get used an indicator of how op, lame/ broken/ easy to use or unhealthy something is/was. There are simply too many possible reasons aside from it being op/ broken/ lame/ ez or not.

Back in time when mesmer haden't chaos strom on heal + had higher CD on MoD + hadn't linear ambush pressure, having a immob on a lock who rarely proc and who were instant clear wasn't a problem at all.That's probably why this trait wasn't used apart on niche testing builds.

Higher cd on MoD, in general the amount of cc available doesn't matter when the first interrupt is a sure kill, in particular on Powerburst build (what was the only build used with that trait by some hotjoin and WvW heroes back then) and when interrupting a simple autoattack is enough to get this lock down. A lock down needs a stunbreak and condiremove to get out is never balanced, NEVER. Even more op when you add an instant interrupt tool to it.

[rharmy.1970]

1> while nerfing mirage condi dmg and output, lowering theyre invuln time needs to happen as well2> get rid of necro ports (or lower the amount) in fights with necro ive seen them port 4 times in the matter of a minute that doesnt make sense3> lower the cd of guardian sword 24> firebrands running sage amulet is a huge op problem, they shouldnt have that much cc with that much condi damage and healing output5> weaver dodge frames shouldnt by split seconds6> thief dodge spamming especially condi thief lower poison output as well as the torment and confusion applied by the trait7> lower confusion output in general8> ranger pet rock gazelle damage even after its last nerf is still too high nearly one shotting even bunkers9> soulbeast trait "furious strength" lowered to 5 %10> lower ranger longbow damage by 3%11> ranger beastmode cd to 12s12> id say warrior is in a decent spot maybe lowering some of theyre healing from adrenal health and lower all gs and axe damage by 3%13> raise guardian shield 5 healing by 5%14> rid most classes of their stealth and dead eye teleports should have a longer cd15> revenant damage lowered by 3%16> mesmer ooc bursting not a bad problem just annoying17> LOWER necromancer life force or raise the consumption rate

[Crozame.4098]

Symbolband also braindead class. ANd also, when you nerf dmgs, pls also balance the healing and bunker classes too

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"rharmy.1970" said:1> while nerfing mirage condi dmg and output, lowering theyre invuln time needs to happen as well2> get rid of necro ports (or lower the amount) in fights with necro ive seen them port 4 times in the matter of a minute that doesnt make sense3> lower the cd of guardian sword 24> firebrands running sage amulet is a huge op problem, they shouldnt have that much cc with that much condi damage and healing output5> weaver dodge frames shouldnt by split seconds6> thief dodge spamming especially condi thief lower poison output as well as the torment and confusion applied by the trait7> lower confusion output in general8> ranger pet rock gazelle damage even after its last nerf is still too high nearly one shotting even bunkers9> soulbeast trait "furious strength" lowered to 5 %10> lower ranger longbow damage by 3%11> ranger beastmode cd to 12s12> id say warrior is in a decent spot maybe lowering some of theyre healing from adrenal health and lower all gs and axe damage by 3%13> raise guardian shield 5 healing by 5%14> rid most classes of their stealth and dead eye teleports should have a longer cd15> revenant damage lowered by 3%16> mesmer ooc bursting not a bad problem just annoying17> LOWER necromancer life force or raise the consumption rate

1> while nerfing mirage condi dmg and output, lowering theyre invuln time needs to happen as well2> get rid of necro ports (or lower the amount) in fights with necro ive seen them port 4 times in the matter of a minute that doesnt make sense7> lower confusion output in general

those 3 confuse me, can you elaborate?1 -> they dont have more evasion/blocks/invulns then other specs, been proven before.2 -> thats worm and spectral walk used off cd, necro ports are worse then that of other classes due to how strong mobility would be for them, what is flash worm if not shitty blink? personally I think they are fine.3 -> in all the games I played, dont think I ever died to confusion as top damage, game in general doesnt apply much of it anywhere, condi thief has 6stack if traited for it on steal. mesmer has 3 from magic bullet, and 7 from scepter 3. Thats all the confusing going on, mb 1 extra if you shatter f2 without clone.

[oscarT.8679]

If they are going to nerf the damage of the Rampage of the warrior that is also in the Holo and that increase its duration or the duration of his stun, because otherwise it will only have utility in group fights, but not in 1 vs. 1. Thus they only affect the warrior core and the berserker. But hey it's just my opinion, I'm already used to accommodate the changes that are made.

[Flandre.2870]

xxxxxxxxxx

[Fueki.4753]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@rharmy.1970 said:1> while nerfing mirage condi dmg and output, lowering theyre invuln time needs to happen as well1 -> they dont have more evasion/blocks/invulns then other specs, been proven before.

That's probably due to the YEARS long complain about Mirage Cloak, which many consider too potent.That's but that's an Evasion not an invul.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@rharmy.1970 said:1> while nerfing mirage condi dmg and output, lowering theyre invuln time needs to happen as well1 -> they dont have more evasion/blocks/invulns then other specs, been proven before.

That's probably due to the YEARS long complain about Mirage Cloak, which many consider too potent.That's but that's an Evasion not an invul.

following this logic we can remove everything from anyone.¬ I could ask the same about guards, they have too much blocks!

• they dont have more evades/blocks/invulns then other classes¬ but more blocks with aegis and blue shields, its annoying and im too lazy to wait for it to wear off, remove it, nerf it!

[aelska.4609]

Also consider removing sigil of energy. Some classes are transformed into dodgemachines, there is no reason for a sigil to be that impactful on the game... especially when paired with dodge traits.

[Ghos.1326]

@"aelska.4609" said:Also consider removing sigil of energy. Some classes are transformed into dodgemachines, there is no reason for a sigil to be that impactful on the game... especially when paired with dodge traits.

Sigil of energy is a fun one. While I like it a lot, everything being able to dodge most of the time is annoying. This could be a combination of having too much access to traits that give energy outright, at increased rates, or through boons. Another annoying thing is, because of lack of meaningful defense against this crazy powercreep (which is getting nerfed bit by bit now, thank Cal), having high mobility is pretty much crucial in gameplay for any role.

[SeikeNz.3526]

@"aelska.4609" said:Also consider removing sigil of energy. Some classes are transformed into dodgemachines, there is no reason for a sigil to be that impactful on the game... especially when paired with dodge traits.

so this work with weaver? is that a bug or intended? maybe that's what make them perma evade

[Stand The Wall.6987]

lol, energy sigil is not at fault. its the + endurance traits and perma vigor builds.