Nerfing condi thief..while leaving Shadow art Deadeye untouched.....

[mortrialus.3062]

@bluri.2653 said:So now SA de is op? Lmao im dying

I haven't seen it in action but a few PvPers have mentioned on stream a permastealth SA deadeye that can consistently one shot from stealth thanks to the SA venoms trait and the lifesteal on stealth attack minor well beyond what Deadeye has traditionally been able to do. It doesn't even run trickery.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@bluri.2653 said:So now SA de is op? Lmao im dying

Yeah this time it was a stealth DE that must have farmed him recently so clearly their op.More vids when u have time, thnxFrom: every thief.

[Axl.8924]

it just annoys me people lumping Perma stealth with stealth man. stealth and dodging is necessary for thieves. I dunno about mirages dodging and or holos but i know for a fact that thieves depend on getting away and then hiding.

It also annoys me how people complain constantly about Condi when I think its mostly power builds.

I don't want thief and its elites like the way Chrono or necro elites "being butchered" to be gutted.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"Axl.8924" said:it just annoys me people lumping Perma stealth with stealth man. stealth and dodging is necessary for thieves. I dunno about mirages dodging and or holos but i know for a fact that thieves depend on getting away and then hiding.

It also annoys me how people complain constantly about Condi when I think its mostly power builds.

I don't want thief and its elites like the way Chrono or necro elites "being butchered" to be gutted.

Amen brotha!

[Burnfall.9573]

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

And the counter- why?I don't like the clone mechanic and dislike fighting all mesmer specs because of that, doesn't make the mechanic op nor should it be deleted

[saerni.2584]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bluri.2653 said:So now SA de is op? Lmao im dying

I haven't seen it in action but a few PvPers have mentioned on stream a permastealth SA deadeye that can consistently one shot from stealth thanks to the SA venoms trait and the lifesteal on stealth attack minor well beyond what Deadeye has traditionally been able to do. It doesn't even run trickery.

Not sure on the exact build but...it literally can’t run Trickery due to being a SA + DE. If you want the big damage bonus of taking Deadly Arts there are your three trait lines.

Deadly Arts synergy with venoms in stealth from Shadow Arts is why the build has a lot of damage. But it lacks initiative so a player can’t mess up while using it.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Alwayshappy.2549" said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

And the counter- why?I don't like the clone mechanic and dislike fighting all mesmer specs because of that, doesn't make the mechanic op nor should it be deleted

Funny , because you whined yesterday about conditions :Phttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91918/have-fun-with-this-condi-spamming-cheese-meta#latest

And you make pompus speaches like :''The pvp is strait up garbage right now because it's all condi spam from almost every spec. U clear condi's and immediately ur back on fire,poisoned,feared etc it's silly. The devs really need to take a real hard look at the condi mess going on right now. I've talked to quite a few people that are in game that came back to try pvp again cuz the new balance team has brought them hope but they games gonna lose them again if they dont make changes soon. ''

[Burnfall.9573]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

And the counter- why?I don't like the clone mechanic and dislike fighting all mesmer specs because of that, doesn't make the mechanic op nor should it be deleted

let me ask you a question; how long would a gaming company whose embraces and whose vision to implement healthy competitiveness would have dealt with it?

Certainly not 7 years with continuation of it!!

Once again, delete this Toxic mechanic design so guild wars 2 can have hope to be competitive.

Side note-Either redesign the root cause- Thief Profession from the ground or throw it in the trash alongside with Stealth

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

And the counter- why?I don't like the clone mechanic and dislike fighting all mesmer specs because of that, doesn't make the mechanic op nor should it be deleted

let me ask you a question; how long would a gaming company whose embraces and whose vision to implement healthy competitiveness would have dealt with it?

Certainly not 7 years with continuation of it!!

Once again, delete this Toxic mechanic design so guild wars 2 can have hope to be competitive.

Side note-Either redesign the root cause- Thief Profession from the ground or throw it in the trash alongside with Stealth

Again why? Cuz u dont like it?To bad, move on!

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

And the counter- why?I don't like the clone mechanic and dislike fighting all mesmer specs because of that, doesn't make the mechanic op nor should it be deleted

let me ask you a question; how long would a gaming company whose embraces and whose vision to implement healthy competitiveness would have dealt with it?

Certainly not 7 years with continuation of it!!

Once again, delete this Toxic mechanic design so guild wars 2 can have hope to be competitive.

Side note-Either redesign the root cause- Thief Profession from the ground or throw it in the trash alongside with Stealth

Again why? Cuz u dont like it?To bad, move on!

You had moved on to Archage :PWhos left first ?:P

[Burnfall.9573]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

And the counter- why?I don't like the clone mechanic and dislike fighting all mesmer specs because of that, doesn't make the mechanic op nor should it be deleted

let me ask you a question; how long would a gaming company whose embraces and whose vision to implement healthy competitiveness would have dealt with it?

Certainly not 7 years with continuation of it!!

Once again, delete this Toxic mechanic design so guild wars 2 can have hope to be competitive.

Side note-Either redesign the root cause- Thief Profession from the ground or throw it in the trash alongside with Stealth

Again why? Cuz u dont like it?To bad, move on!

What is bad is Anet not caring for the best interest for the wellbeing of the game including its player base whose running of to other gaming companies who cares

We can argue back and forth... its business as usual.

At the end of the day, Anet has a business to run and to improve

As long they continue to not listen to the community who want healthy gaming competitiveness experiences, continual to refuse to respond to healthy feedbacks with the or complete removal of Thief Profession or to completely rework Thief Profession alongside with Toxic designs with Toxic Mechanics, with continually failing to improve and to implement serious hard Nerfs In PVP+WVW game modes --NOT PVP ONLY NERFS!!!--NOT MAKING EXCEPTIONS/EXCUSES AS TO WHY THIEF PROFESSION DON'T NEED NERFINGS!!!!! we the community will continually have no other choice but torun to gaming companies whose serious in taking healthy competition actions and also investing in their games

Non-Negotiable!!

2 optionsTo either take serious action or Continually losing the Trust of the community to gaming companies who take serious actions and are in their best interest of removing any unhealthy experiences, unhealthy design with its unhealthy mechanics immediately

PERIOD!!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@witcher.3197 said:Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

Maybe you can tell us the counterplay for stealth camping rifle champ with shadow arts....'cause I know the counterplay to condi thieves, they can't kill much outside gold division I dare to think

Reveal

The problem is that Deadeye builds are #$%^ing useless against anything that has reveal, but are too strong against things that do not have reveal. So it either gets hard countered, or does the hard countering. There is no in between point.

I've written a lot about this concept in many previous threads. This is a bad type of design that needs some work toward fixing. Classes/Builds should be able to handle each other in combat reasonably. It's ok to have some advantages over a particular build or to have some disadvantages in some situations, but it's kind of not awesome when the rock/paper/scissors effect grows too strong. Then the game feels less about skill and out playing, and more about just trying to jump people when you're on something that counters them hard.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

If they are to touch deadeye, it is only fair to bring other builds of similar damage potential in line.

Because let's be honest, being one-shot simply because you let yourself relax for one second, or were focused on a duel, is not fun for the receiving side. You're allowed to have damage and mobility; however, you should not be granted access to mobility, CC AND damage at the same time.

[Curennos.9307]

I just want Shadow Arts to encourage dipping in and out of stealth quickly and often - as opposed to the way it is now, where it encourages ridiculous amounts of stacking. There are a ton of traits (and some skills) that blatantly encourage stacking and/or don't work well without it - why anet has let them sit for so long, I haven't the foggiest.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Curennos.9307 said:I just want Shadow Arts to encourage dipping in and out of stealth quickly and often - as opposed to the way it is now, where it encourages ridiculous amounts of stacking. There are a ton of traits (and some skills) that blatantly encourage stacking and/or don't work well without it - why anet has let them sit for so long, I haven't the foggiest.

They say they dislike condi thief's burst, but allow a lot of builds with much better +1 potential and less meaningful counterplay to roam free. Oh well, at least holo's getting touched.

[Burnfall.9573]

'End Of The Story For The Condi Thief - GW2 PVP'

[Arheundel.6451]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Alwayshappy.2549" said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

And the counter- why?I don't like the clone mechanic and dislike fighting all mesmer specs because of that, doesn't make the mechanic op nor should it be deleted

This describes deadeye...

Nothing much to add...quite sad cheap design...virtually no counter...on many classes

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Alwayshappy.2549" said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Why not?

And the counter- why?I don't like the clone mechanic and dislike fighting all mesmer specs because of that, doesn't make the mechanic op nor should it be deleted

This describes deadeye...

Nothing much to add...quite sad cheap design...virtually no counter...on many classes

And utterly useless against others. Silly design, honestly.

I grew bored of condi thief already, so I don't really mind if it's getting gutted or not. But it's hardly the only oppressive build out there.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@witcher.3197 said:Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

Maybe you can tell us the counterplay for stealth camping rifle champ with shadow arts....'cause I know the counterplay to condi thieves, they can't kill much outside gold division I dare to think

Reveal

The problem is that Deadeye builds are #$%^ing useless against anything that has reveal, but are too strong against things that do not have reveal. So it either gets hard countered, or does the hard countering. There is no in between point.

I've written a lot about this concept in many previous threads. This is a bad type of design that needs some work toward fixing. Classes/Builds should be able to handle each other in combat reasonably. It's ok to have some advantages over a particular build or to have some disadvantages in some situations, but it's kind of not awesome when the rock/paper/scissors effect grows too strong. Then the game feels less about skill and out playing, and more about just trying to jump people when you're on something that counters them hard.

Really Deadeye has numerous flaws in it's design. First by virtue of having both the best range on top what is already the most mobile class Deadeye should by default have the lowest stealth up time out of any thief build Specialization. Starting off with Snipers Kneel giving stealth, to stealth on dodge, even the elite Shadowmeld. It's all a mistake. Deadeye should revolve around minimal stealth and be forced to focus on good positioning to stay safe.

Next is that in terms of damage Deadeye should kind of just okay. The original iteration where they had to build up malice to execute players was smart design that needed some ironing out. Again Malice building up over time instead of through action was a problem, doubly so when they can permanently stealth until it gets Max stacks, again the problem of permanently stealth on something that deserves probably about as much stealth as a ranger.

Deadeye should feel like playing an Exodia deck from Yu-Gi-Oh in that you're basically playing a completely different game from depleting Life Points and doing damage.

Right now everything that could have gone wrong designing an RPG sniper class has gone wrong. It has abusive levels of stealth uptime, on top of the best range and mobility. On top of that it has one of the nastiest stealth bursts in the game, with Be Quick or Be Killed, Binding Shadows, and Three Round Burst it can drop 20k damage in under 2 seconds, with 0 tell on the Immobilize and knock down. And similar problem to CI Mirage back in it's day you better hope your stunbreak is also a cleanse because even if you stunbreak the knockdown you're Immobilized and taking damage, and if your cleanse has a cast time you're fucked.

Overall I have nothing positive to say about the way Deadeye is currently designed. The only saving grace about it is that only about 2 people EU and NA can play it above a Plat 1 level.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Arheundel.6451 said:The first has a plethora of counterspecs and counterplay option while the latter basically has none still Anet pushed in the wrong direction will nerf condi thief which I rarely see these days and will leave SA deadeye out of the picture while it's literally a plague in both PvP and WvW....As I stated in a previous thread, it's possible to counter condi spec on basically all classes unless heavily outplayed....but Anet still go and put nerfing precedence on condi thief while permastealth horror is a thing...just why?

Why do you people keep saying there's no counter ? For me it says you don't have a clue what you're talking about nor having ever tried to play it yourself and simply don't understand how the class is supposed to be played because if you had you would know there are definetely counters to it. Counters being Reveals and reflects + blocks + hard focusing down and anticipating movement ( something you only know if you played it yourself ). The reason why you see them in wvw is because everyone and their mom is running with a minimum of 10 guys from which about 5 being support fb's. Do you think its fun to solo roam on a non stealth class when all you see is a bunch of 10 group monkeys chasing you down ? And then again you have sentrys/tower radars and 2 types of traps to use to reveal them ontop of the normal counters,but it can never be enough right. People need to be able to kill everything with their current build or it makes them go booboo.

Ive seen certain people knowing how to lock it down because they have a clear understanding of the games mechanics and some others on the other hand rather ask for nerfs because they claim spec X is OP and cannot be countered nor killed while it's an issue on your side,something you will never admit anyway.

[Ralkuth.1456]

Ok so once I know about this build from the forums...

Does that mean if I don’t get a high rank and farm everyone on my Shadow Arts DE I can hold OP accountable?

[Dreams.3128]

My question is how did SWTOR get their sniper operative class right, but GW2 can't even properly balance deadeye to be a class that's actually not a feast or famine spec.

No matter if it is weak or strong, the design is certainly not good for longevity. Snipers in Star Wars have FAR more decent cc, defensive maneuvers, AND fair damage compared to deadeye which literally needs to cheese in order to do anything properly.

Big yikes. Trash it and start over, just like the other feast or famine specs.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Must be thief main..you can contribute to the discussion ( or end it) by telling us the counterplay to the build in question and it's not simply deadeye...

it's shadow art deadeye

, go on then explain us

Im memeing SA deadeye in ranked, wanted to get a top 25 title with it (havent played ranked in more then a year so I only have the old one), but it seems impossible, will likely have to settle for top 100. Why? Because literally whole teamcompositions only made of my counters: holos with the dual reveal trait (lock on), rangers/soulbeasts with sic'em, shiroglint revenants, spellbreakers with tether, dragonhunters, FB-s with reflects/projectile absorbions for days. And the best thing about these teamcomps is that they don't just see me and relog to these builds, they are already running them by default.I find myself playing decap-bot more often then not, for being unable to contribute to many fights..

Ironically shadow arts deadeye is incredibly weak in this meta. By playing it im severely handicapping myself.... if you cannot deal with it you are either running a build that gets hardcountered(like scourge, which i dont see in top 100 matches at all), or its a pure L2P issue. 90% of metabuilds have instant gapclosers and/or reveals, even core necro on shroud... USE THEM.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

Must be thief main..you can contribute to the discussion ( or end it) by telling us the counterplay to the build in question and it's not simply deadeye...

it's shadow art deadeye

, go on then explain us

Im memeing SA deadeye in ranked, wanted to get a top 25 title with it (havent played ranked in more then a year so I only have the old one), but it seems impossible, will likely have to settle for top 100. Why? Because literally whole teamcompositions only made of my counters: holos with the dual reveal trait (lock on), rangers/soulbeasts with sic'em, shiroglint revenants, spellbreakers with tether, dragonhunters, FB-s with reflects/projectile absorbions for days. And the best thing about these teamcomps is that they don't just see me and relog to these builds, they are already running them by default.I find myself playing decap-bot more often then not, for being unable to contribute to many fights..

Ironically shadow arts deadeye is incredibly weak in this meta. By playing it im severely handicapping myself.... if you cannot deal with it you are either running a build that gets hardcountered(like scourge, which i dont see in top 100 matches at all), or its a pure L2P issue. 90% of metabuilds have instant gapclosers and/or reveals, even core necro on shroud... USE THEM.

I love DE in a way, since im playing odd variants of 1shotish,mesmer.when the game starts I know for a fact that your team doesnt matter, my team doesnt matter. its 1v1going for your team is very risky for me, going for my team is very risky for you. so we kinda mindgame eachother, fun times.