[Strike Mission] Boneskinner after patch too hard (by bug) ?

[ReActif.9251]

Hi, I would like to have feedback from other players about the Boneskinner after the December 5th patch.

Many of us understood of course that there was a bug in the past because it was far too easy, far too much and it came from the failure of its game mechanics. But after the patch many consider that the developers have not done a test because it seems to have become much too hard, there are several hypotheses that go from the fact that the torches would not do well what they have to do, or that its aura is too high, etc....

What do you think of that?Did you manage to do it after the patch?

On our side on several guild there was only one group that managed to do it and yet they found that this one had become too hard for a simple strike mission boss and they too had the impression that there was something wrong with its operation.

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Edition : repost my last answer to close my question.

Thank you for the answers with arguments.This makes it possible to confirm the normality of this fight and therefore to exclude the hypotheses that some had an abnormal (although necessary) difficulty.After reading all the posts (except those that have nothing to say) it appears that it is considered balanced (regardless of the individual point of view)I will be able to give them the information that they will not have to hope for any changes.

[Mitch.4781]

Haha we need the goldilocks version where it's just right!

[Randulf.7614]

I think it's just a tad overtuned for a daily public mission. The fight, the mechanics are all really good and I did enjoy the fight, but none of our groups managed it and no pug is going to stick it out for the rewards on offer.

I think if this was a raid boss, then no issue. I think for what it is designed to be, then it needs to be tuned a bit more. It's just too frantic to keep the wisps down and the torches on, whilst placing puddles out of the way and breaking the cc and keeping a high dps.

Everything is there, just needs a minor tuning down - perhaps less constant wisps? Or if staying as it is, a vastly improved reward.

It is a great fight though and I enjoyed it a lot and prefer it over the faceroll version - I especially like the use of mastery on the wisps making it super important you have it and use it in the right way. But, even keeping it like this, there is no incentive or appropriate reward for the work involved.

[Ayrilana.1396]

As long as people stay out of the ground AoEs, avoid the cone attack, dodge the pounce, use CC (or special action), and keep the torches lit then they should be fine. A healer and condi cleanse always helps too. It only seems hard because people are failing mechanics constantly.

[Michram.6853]

it's a fine difficulty

[Zaklex.6308]

@Randulf.7614 said:I think it's just a tad overtuned for a daily public mission. The fight, the mechanics are all really good and I did enjoy the fight, but none of our groups managed it and no pug is going to stick it out for the rewards on offer.

I think if this was a raid boss, then no issue. I think for what it is designed to be, then it needs to be tuned a bit more. It's just too frantic to keep the wisps down and the torches on, whilst placing puddles out of the way and breaking the cc and keeping a high dps.

Everything is there, just needs a minor tuning down - perhaps less constant wisps? Or if staying as it is, a vastly improved reward.

It is a great fight though and I enjoyed it a lot and prefer it over the faceroll version - I especially like the use of mastery on the wisps making it super important you have it and use it in the right way. But, even keeping it like this, there is no incentive or appropriate reward for the work involved.

From what I understand, not having done any of the Strike missions in Bjora yet, the Boneskinner is supposed to be akin to a Raid boss battle...in which case based on your description it's right on the money.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"ReActif.9251" said:Hi, I would like to have feedback from other players about the Boneskinner after the December 5th patch.

Many of us understood of course that there was a bug in the past because it was far too easy, far too much and it came from the failure of its game mechanics.But after the patch many consider that the developers have not done a test because it seems to have become much too hard, there are several hypotheses that go from the fact that the torches would not do well what they have to do, or that its aura is too high, etc....

What do you think of that?Did you manage to do it after the patch?

On our side on several guild there was only one group that managed to do it and yet they found that this one had become too hard for a simple strike mission boss and they too had the impression that there was something wrong with its operation.

Clearly at the time of writing this post you had not even tried it yet and are referencing second hand anecdotes.Now it's "many" people and "several guild".Why not offer your own feedback for discussion?

[mama nacho.6783]

I have found it medium in difficulty, but no drop to complete the hunger story, completed boneskinner 2x and nada...

[Tulki.1458]

I hope they don't nerf it. The difficulty right now is perfect.Remember, strikes were not advertised as another easy source of daily rewards. They were specifically advertised as a ramp-up to raid-level content. This means that it's supposed to make players better at the game.

Getting better means failing. Failing is part of the intention. Players will get better. I just did this with a bunch of pugs, most of whom didn't even know about the "/gg" command at the start. We wiped fast the first couple times. Then people caught on, learned the AoEs, learned the torches need to be lit, learned the tell for when he's gonna snuff one, learned the wisps also snuff torches, started calling targets on wisps, and started using essence manipulation to kill them without moving away from the boss.

If you wipe multiple times and eventually get the kill or even just make progress, then the strike is doing its job. Players are capable of learning raids and the Boneskinner is currently at the sweet spot just below them.

The thing the game needs the most right now, above everything else, is confidence that players will overcome challenge presented to them. Lowering the design to the standard of the average open-world player means that that's where it will stay. Raising the design so that players rise to meet it means the content can be more interesting.

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

I think it's fine as it is, even for a casual daily strike mission.

The two previous ones that will rotate back in after a few days will offer enough ingots/shards for casual players, and the increased difficulty is IMO a very healthy and positive thing for the game.

Actually having to know and do mechanics, think about group composition, and even a basic thing such as dodging and positioning will all teach casual players not to just stand still and auto-attack. For some, this surely will be annoying and they might forget the strike mission entirely, but those players don't really want to learn. And if they don't want to, they never will, so nothing was really lost there. These people don't likely do raids or high-level fractals, and this is just another small boss they "lose access" to. There's still plenty of open world content for them to tackle.

As for the people who do want to learn, this is a great stepping stone towards harder content. After multiple wipes, finally getting a strong comp and nailing the mechanics will feel like a huge victory for them, and they might now feel encouraged to try out the harder content the game has to offer. They now basically know what raid bosses are all about; comp, positioning and movement, mechanics and dps.

So in a nutshell; people who can't/don't want to learn the fight, don't really lose much. It's just a strike mission with average rewards. But people who are willing to learn, it's a great new experience, it's educative, and it might push them towards harder content they never felt comfortable to try out.

[zealex.9410]

Watched it be done on stream by some guy pugging it, they wiped twice then killed it. Seems fine to me honestly.

I wouldnt nerf it because it now seems in line with what strikes should be, like an increasing ladder to get you raid ready.

[ReActif.9251]

Thank you for the answers with arguments.This makes it possible to confirm the normality of this fight and therefore to exclude the hypotheses that some had an abnormal (although necessary) difficulty.After reading all the posts (except those that have nothing to say) it appears that it is considered balanced (regardless of the individual point of view)I will be able to give them the information that they will not have to hope for any changes.

[Randulf.7614]

@ReActif.9251 said:Thank you for the answers with arguments.This makes it possible to confirm the normality of this fight and therefore to exclude the hypotheses that some had an abnormal (although necessary) difficulty.After reading all the posts (except those that have nothing to say) it appears that it is considered balanced (regardless of the individual point of view)I will be able to give them the information that they will not have to hope for any changes.

I'm not convinced about that. The opinion in game does not share sentiments from the few replies on here and I'm not convinced this boss is working quite how they want it to either. Also, a lot of people are judging by streams and not by actually playing it and streamers often tend to be more dedicated and skilled players. Strike missions are meant to be aimed at bridging the gap. Given the volume of quitters and failed missions being observed, I do wonder if this is fulfilling the design function of a Strike Mission. Even some of the experienced raiders are saying elsewhere that this is more unforgiving than some raid mechanics.

It is too early really to judge whether any changes are needed. I don't think it is tuned well to daily completion and the rewards def aren't right for this mission if it stays as it is.

My overall opinion is that one of two things need to happen

1) rewards stay the same and the fight gets a minor nerf. prob to the number of wisps or to the aura damage2) fight stays unchanged and the rewards get a big buff.

I rather enjoyed the fight and learning it so I am leaning more towards 2), but I don't think it will stay unchanged completely

[Preyar.6783]

@"mama nacho.6783" said:I have found it medium in difficulty, but no drop to complete the hunger story, completed boneskinner 2x and nada...

You don't have to kill that one for the hunger achievement, you have to kill the Boneskinner in the ope world map during this event.

[Moi.5013]

the rewards are not reflective of the difficulty.....

[Reverielle.3972]

We tried for a while completing the mechanics, but it didn't prove very successful. This was mainly due to players simply not bothering to help with any mechanics even though that's what we were trying to do. In the end we had two good healers and decided just to fight it without worrying about the torches at all, and slew it fine. Which on the whole was a little disappointing, as it juts makes the fight like 95% of others in the game.

If Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raiding, I can't help but feel the balance is still a little off. In the Boneskinner's case, I believe the fight needs fewer mechanics, but those mechanics should be more lethal. But most of all it needs to be enjoyable, not just the 'zerg with some heals and forget mechanics' style of approach.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

@Moi.5013 said:the rewards are not reflective of the difficulty.....

Dhuum raid boss gives you 2 gold and 1 random exotic weekly when you kill it and its considered as hardest boss in game. So strike rewards are perfectly fine.

[Glider.5792]

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Moi.5013 said:the rewards are not reflective of the difficulty.....

Dhuum raid boss gives you 2 gold and 1 random exotic weekly when you kill it and its considered as hardest boss in game. So strike rewards are perfectly fine.

This. If strike rewards get buffed, raid rewards better get doubled/tripled.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Glider.5792 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Moi.5013 said:the rewards are not reflective of the difficulty.....

Dhuum raid boss gives you 2 gold and 1 random exotic weekly when you kill it and its considered as hardest boss in game. So strike rewards are perfectly fine.

This. If strike rewards get buffed, raid rewards better get doubled/tripled.

Why? It’d only follow the trend Anet has set by making brain dead content more rewarding that content that requires you to put in effort. Rewards are inversely proportional to difficulty.

[Glider.5792]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Glider.5792 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Moi.5013 said:the rewards are not reflective of the difficulty.....

Dhuum raid boss gives you 2 gold and 1 random exotic weekly when you kill it and its considered as hardest boss in game. So strike rewards are perfectly fine.

This. If strike rewards get buffed, raid rewards better get doubled/tripled.

Why? It’d only follow the trend Anet has set by making brain dead content more rewarding that content that requires you to put in effort. Rewards are inversely proportional to difficulty.

Sory, im not sure what you're saying.Do you mean, that its fine that raids would end up being less rewarding than strikes ? If so, whats the point in even trying to prepare people for raids with strikes, if doing raids is less rewarding than strikes themself ?

[sokeenoppa.5384]

@Glider.5792 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Moi.5013 said:the rewards are not reflective of the difficulty.....

Dhuum raid boss gives you 2 gold and 1 random exotic weekly when you kill it and its considered as hardest boss in game. So strike rewards are perfectly fine.

This. If strike rewards get buffed, raid rewards better get doubled/tripled.

Yeah. Not sure why strike missions even need better rewards anyways. They are a learning bridge to raids, might aswell teach that raids are not rewarding ?

[Fueki.4753]

Strike Missions are supposed to be stepping stones into raids.Therefore, a Strike Missions being designed for the minority that likes raiding and the METAinfestation is perfectly within reason.It's the other Strike Missions that failed the purpose of Strike Missions.

[Kronos.3695]

I didn't find it hard at all, just a decent bridge to people who want to approach to raids.

[arielwind.8921]

Those common MMO 'mechanics' never made me excited honestly, can't even say it's the matter of difficulty. Rather I need more wise AI to 'Kill players 'strategically'.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Glider.5792 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Glider.5792 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Moi.5013 said:the rewards are not reflective of the difficulty.....

Dhuum raid boss gives you 2 gold and 1 random exotic weekly when you kill it and its considered as hardest boss in game. So strike rewards are perfectly fine.

This. If strike rewards get buffed, raid rewards better get doubled/tripled.

Why? It’d only follow the trend Anet has set by making brain dead content more rewarding that content that requires you to put in effort. Rewards are inversely proportional to difficulty.

Sory, im not sure what you're saying.Do you mean, that its fine that raids would end up being less rewarding than strikes ? If so, whats the point in even trying to prepare people for raids with strikes, if doing raids is less rewarding than strikes themself ?

It was kind of sarcasm. My stance is that the most challenging content in any game should be the most rewarding. Rewards can definitely be better and that includes the more difficult strikes.