Pistol whip spam thieves

[Stand The Wall.6987]

p/p is next on the teef qq list, calling it

[Avatar.3568]

You guys can still walk. 2 steps in one direction and this thief will not hit you, if this dudes stays at one point, is attacking and evading, why would you ever try to attack??????

[Daishi.6027]

I'm going to get a lot of flack for this. But like with any sword thief, the problem is with infiltration strike.

Having an easy access spam-able evade+attack is not unfair or imba alone, It has more than enough ways to play around it. Even Flanking strike s/d which is much better to play isn't to difficult to play around. However, having an almost equally spam-able safe response to whiffs and misplays is what creates the problem and leaves nothing to punish. Unlike cooldown based classes where once you blow that teleport you don't get it back for 30 or more seconds, ini regens much faster and it only takes 2 ini for a 1200 safety blink that can return you behind line of sight, and on a whole allows for repeat plays that are all mostly safe.

You fix infiltration strike/Infiltrator's return you fix the low risk of sword thief, and still allow it to have it's dodge (for safe bursty engagement).

Also targeted teleports, including on guard and mes should respect line of sight, that should have been the standard since day 1.

[Stephen.6312]

@Flandre.2870 said:Extremely toxic 2 button spam build. Infinite cleanse and passive minor trait healing doubles the heal skill heal value. Low risk low reward with low skill ceiling. How is having hard cc, extreme damage and long evadeframe on low initiative skill a healthy design? Give pistol whip a rampage treatment 0.2 coefficient

This is the most level-headed approach to dealing with the problem that I've read in, like, 7 years. +1 for you, sir.

[Sobx.1758]

@JonnyForgotten.4276 said:Seriously, what is everyone up in arms about? I have been using s/p off and on for 2-3 years now, and it's not suddenly any better or worse.

No, no, no, it's an all new fresh OP broken just discovered build never seen before! :lol:Luckily GW2 forum stands on guard and informs us right away about any incredible novelty like that. :+1:

[Crozame.4098]

After trying out the build myself for about 3-4 games. I would say its not a easy build to start with, but it has very high potential. You do not spam 3 that much, but combined with dagger storm, short CD steals, pistol 4, and other utility, it is very powerful. I would say the team must balance it carefully, otherwise it would be useless, like the berzerker war

[xardan.2874]

Also Anet should make pistolwhip cost initiative at the start of the cast. This stowing is dishonest gameplay.Remember stowing sword2 on mesmer and how quickly it got fixed after Helseth made guide showing it? But thiefs skills abusing same things are totally fine and balanced :)Ok, i see, i see.

[Crozame.4098]

@xardan.2874 said:Also Anet should make pistolwhip cost initiative at the start of the cast. This stowing is dishonest gameplay.Remember stowing sword2 on mesmer and how quickly it got fixed after Helseth made guide showing it? But thiefs skills abusing same things are totally fine and balanced :)Ok, i see, i see.

No. Dumbing down the game further is not a good idea.

[ArthurDent.9538]

@xardan.2874 said:Also Anet should make pistolwhip cost initiative at the start of the cast. This stowing is dishonest gameplay.Remember stowing sword2 on mesmer and how quickly it got fixed after Helseth made guide showing it? But thiefs skills abusing same things are totally fine and balanced :)Ok, i see, i see.

Mesmer stowing sword 2 was different because it was the only skill that could be stowed for reduced cd while still actually giving an effect (in that case an evade frame). Stowing pistol whip only costs 0 initiative if canceled before the stun part finishes casting. There could be an argument for giving their initiative skills the same reduced cd that cd gated skills get if cancel casted.

[Dantheman.3589]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@xardan.2874 said:Also Anet should make pistolwhip cost initiative at the start of the cast. This stowing is dishonest gameplay.Remember stowing sword2 on mesmer and how quickly it got fixed after Helseth made guide showing it? But thiefs skills abusing same things are totally fine and balanced :)Ok, i see, i see.

Mesmer stowing sword 2 was different because it was the only skill that could be stowed for reduced cd while still actually giving an effect (in that case an evade frame). Stowing pistol whip only costs 0 initiative if canceled before the stun part finishes casting. There could be an argument for giving their initiative skills the same reduced cd that cd gated skills get if cancel casted.

Actually I’d like to point u can jump right when animation starts hence canceling but it does first strike which is a stun and probably an evade also

[Sindrener.1592]

@xardan.2874 said:Also Anet should make pistolwhip cost initiative at the start of the cast. This stowing is dishonest gameplay.Remember stowing sword2 on mesmer and how quickly it got fixed after Helseth made guide showing it? But thiefs skills abusing same things are totally fine and balanced :)Ok, i see, i see.

Because blurred frenzy had no wind up and was an evade all the time, stowing the stun part of pistolwhip is like stowing any weapon skill which add mindgames and complexity. The cast of the stun is not an evade fyi

Some of u should not be near any balance discussions whatsoever

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@bluri.2653 said:

@xardan.2874 said:Also Anet should make pistolwhip cost initiative at the start of the cast. This stowing is dishonest gameplay.Remember stowing sword2 on mesmer and how quickly it got fixed after Helseth made guide showing it? But thiefs skills abusing same things are totally fine and balanced :)Ok, i see, i see.

Because blurred frenzy had no wind up and was an evade all the time, stowing the stun part of pistolwhip is like stowing any weapon skill which add mindgames and complexity. The cast of the stun is not an evade fyi

Some of u should not be near any balance discussions whatsoever

I'm super glad that the balance team doesn't just use forum opinion as a balancing compass sometimes, at least not without aggregating it and examining its potential first.People would have nerfed the fun out of this game then quit from boredom long ago.

@Dantheman.3589 said:Actually I’d like to point u can jump right when animation starts hence canceling but it does first strike which is a stun and probably an evade also

If thats true:

its a bug and needs to be fixed so it costs initiative if you do an effect with the skill.it should only be a stun. the evade is not applied until after that animation follows through.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@xardan.2874 said:Also Anet should make pistolwhip cost initiative at the start of the cast. This stowing is dishonest gameplay.Remember stowing sword2 on mesmer and how quickly it got fixed after Helseth made guide showing it? But thiefs skills abusing same things are totally fine and balanced :)Ok, i see, i see.

Because blurred frenzy had no wind up and was an evade all the time, stowing the stun part of pistolwhip is like stowing any weapon skill which add mindgames and complexity. The cast of the stun is not an evade fyi

Some of u should not be near any balance discussions whatsoever

I'm super glad that the balance team doesn't just use forum opinion as a balancing compass sometimes, at least not without aggregating it and examining its potential first.People would have nerfed the fun out of this game then quit from boredom long ago.

@Dantheman.3589 said:Actually I’d like to point u can jump right when animation starts hence canceling but it does first strike which is a stun and probably an evade also

If thats true:

its a bug and needs to be fixed so it costs initiative if you do an effect with the skill.it should only be a stun. the evade is not applied until after that animation follows through.

It definitely stuns I know that and if you are in a situation where u can actually do this to interrupt hence activating unblockable damage from pulmonary impact it is absolutely toxic and broken. Granted I barely ever see ppl do this unlike staff 3 that was literally abused non stop. It’s totally worthy of a hot fix in that regard imo and maybe pistol whip in general could get a nerf, though I do think the acro+DrD build isn’t a problem just the mechanics overall that aren’t fun to play against.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

I still don't get how all the revenant and FB threads were suddenly replaced by PW.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:I still don't get how all the revenant and FB threads were suddenly replaced by PW.

Its thiefNuff said

[Dantheman.3589]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:I still don't get how all the revenant and FB threads were suddenly replaced by PW.

I’m a thief only player rn so I’ll comment on thief threads xd

[Curennos.9307]

Jumping mid Pistol Whip cast will still pop out the stun, but it also consumes ini and doesn't give you the evade afterward.

Dunno why anyone would ever use it that way.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Curennos.9307 said:Jumping mid Pistol Whip cast will still pop out the stun, but it also consumes ini and doesn't give you the evade afterward.

Dunno why anyone would ever use it that way.

Same as the staff bug consumes initiative and starts the animation. The difference this is a dps build while staff was more or less a bunker. You can use this anytime you know they will dodge for a free pulm. Ofc it’s usable and it’s an exploitable bug

[Curennos.9307]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Jumping mid Pistol Whip cast will still pop out the stun, but it also consumes ini and doesn't give you the evade afterward.

Dunno why anyone would ever use it that way.

Same as the staff bug. The difference this is a dps build while staff was more or less a bunker. You can use this anytime you know they will dodge for a free pulm. Ofc it’s usable and it’s an exploitable bug

Jump casting staff 3 had it do everything the skill tooltip said it was, evade included. Trying to use pistol whip this way ONLY gives you the stun and 300-400 damage attached to it. It does nothing else if you jump. It's objectively worse than just letting the skill cast w/out jump.

What do you mean by 'free pulm'? It's not free.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Jumping mid Pistol Whip cast will still pop out the stun, but it also consumes ini and doesn't give you the evade afterward.

Dunno why anyone would ever use it that way.

Same as the staff bug. The difference this is a dps build while staff was more or less a bunker. You can use this anytime you know they will dodge for a free pulm. Ofc it’s usable and it’s an exploitable bug

Jump casting staff 3 had it do everything the skill tooltip said it was, evade included. Trying to use pistol whip this way ONLY gives you the stun and 300-400 damage attached to it. It does nothing else if you jump. It's objectively worse than just letting the skill cast w/out jump.

That’s where your wrong.1.) No where on the tooltip does pistol whip say there is ever an evade2.) It is exactly the same- it starts the animation. The difference is the animation it’s self, staff 3 is an evade at very start of the animation where as pistol whip is not.Jumping at the start of pistol whip does everything the tooltip says except for the multiple hit boxes. Doing a free stun and canceling the rest of the animation is totally exploitable even when it cost initiative which is already a really low amount imo.

[MindWipe.3028]

anet needs to do nothing about it bc that build is trash. if anyone is having trouble with it it is their own fault

[Curennos.9307]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Jumping mid Pistol Whip cast will still pop out the stun, but it also consumes ini and doesn't give you the evade afterward.

Dunno why anyone would ever use it that way.

Same as the staff bug. The difference this is a dps build while staff was more or less a bunker. You can use this anytime you know they will dodge for a free pulm. Ofc it’s usable and it’s an exploitable bug

Jump casting staff 3 had it do everything the skill tooltip said it was, evade included. Trying to use pistol whip this way ONLY gives you the stun and 300-400 damage attached to it. It does nothing else if you jump. It's objectively worse than just letting the skill cast w/out jump.

That’s where your wrong.1.) No where on the tooltip does pistol whip say there is ever an evade2.) It is exactly the same- it starts the animation. The difference is the animation it’s self, staff 3 is an evade at very start of the animation where as pistol whip is not.Jumping at the start of pistol whip does everything the tooltip says except for the multiple hit boxes. Doing a free stun and canceling the rest of the animation is totally exploitable even when it cost initiative which is already a really low amount imo.

Holy kitten you mean anet still hasn't fixed Pistol Whip's tooltip? Good god.

I'm still not sure where you're pulling this 'free' part from. It still costs 5 ini just like if you'd used the rest of the cast. Anet can def fix it but it's not going to change anything.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Jumping mid Pistol Whip cast will still pop out the stun, but it also consumes ini and doesn't give you the evade afterward.

Dunno why anyone would ever use it that way.

Same as the staff bug. The difference this is a dps build while staff was more or less a bunker. You can use this anytime you know they will dodge for a free pulm. Ofc it’s usable and it’s an exploitable bug

Jump casting staff 3 had it do everything the skill tooltip said it was, evade included. Trying to use pistol whip this way ONLY gives you the stun and 300-400 damage attached to it. It does nothing else if you jump. It's objectively worse than just letting the skill cast w/out jump.

That’s where your wrong.1.) No where on the tooltip does pistol whip say there is ever an evade2.) It is exactly the same- it starts the animation. The difference is the animation it’s self, staff 3 is an evade at very start of the animation where as pistol whip is not.Jumping at the start of pistol whip does everything the tooltip says except for the multiple hit boxes. Doing a free stun and canceling the rest of the animation is totally exploitable even when it cost initiative which is already a really low amount imo.

Holy kitten you mean anet still hasn't fixed Pistol Whip's tooltip? Good god.

I'm still not sure where you're pulling this 'free' part from. It still costs 5 ini just like if you'd used the rest of the cast. Anet can def fix it but it's not going to change anything.If every skill allowed you to just jump during it to prevent you from making a bad play than every build would be broken. But at the moment the build that stops you from using an unnecessary pistol whip that roots you for 1.25 secs is this one. You can do this at zero risk and it’ll still use pulmonary impact if it interrupted which is unblockable 1.5-2.5k damage. It should be fixed tbh even if it’s not as annoying or useful as the staff 3 bug

[Curennos.9307]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Jumping mid Pistol Whip cast will still pop out the stun, but it also consumes ini and doesn't give you the evade afterward.

Dunno why anyone would ever use it that way.

Same as the staff bug. The difference this is a dps build while staff was more or less a bunker. You can use this anytime you know they will dodge for a free pulm. Ofc it’s usable and it’s an exploitable bug

Jump casting staff 3 had it do everything the skill tooltip said it was, evade included. Trying to use pistol whip this way ONLY gives you the stun and 300-400 damage attached to it. It does nothing else if you jump. It's objectively worse than just letting the skill cast w/out jump.

That’s where your wrong.1.) No where on the tooltip does pistol whip say there is ever an evade2.) It is exactly the same- it starts the animation. The difference is the animation it’s self, staff 3 is an evade at very start of the animation where as pistol whip is not.Jumping at the start of pistol whip does everything the tooltip says except for the multiple hit boxes. Doing a free stun and canceling the rest of the animation is totally exploitable even when it cost initiative which is already a really low amount imo.

Holy kitten you mean anet still hasn't fixed Pistol Whip's tooltip? Good god.

I'm still not sure where you're pulling this 'free' part from. It still costs 5 ini just like if you'd used the rest of the cast. Anet can def fix it but it's not going to change anything.If every skill allowed you to just jump during it to prevent you from making a bad play than every build would be broken. But at the moment the build that stops you from using an unnecessary pistol whip that roots you for 1.25 secs is this one. You can do this at zero risk and it’ll still use pulmonary impact if it interrupted which is unblockable 1.5-2.5k damage. It should be fixed tbh even if it’s not as annoying or useful as the staff 3 bug

Clarification - not here to argue about whether or not it should be 'fixed'. Just pointing out that your perception of how good using Pistol Whip that way is totally wrong.

You admitted you barely seeing anyone do it - why do you think that is? I haven't seen any other player give it a go, either. Except myself because I wanted to give it a try, but I stopped and never went back. Because using the skill that way sucks.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Jumping mid Pistol Whip cast will still pop out the stun, but it also consumes ini and doesn't give you the evade afterward.

Dunno why anyone would ever use it that way.

Same as the staff bug. The difference this is a dps build while staff was more or less a bunker. You can use this anytime you know they will dodge for a free pulm. Ofc it’s usable and it’s an exploitable bug

Jump casting staff 3 had it do everything the skill tooltip said it was, evade included. Trying to use pistol whip this way ONLY gives you the stun and 300-400 damage attached to it. It does nothing else if you jump. It's objectively worse than just letting the skill cast w/out jump.

That’s where your wrong.1.) No where on the tooltip does pistol whip say there is ever an evade2.) It is exactly the same- it starts the animation. The difference is the animation it’s self, staff 3 is an evade at very start of the animation where as pistol whip is not.Jumping at the start of pistol whip does everything the tooltip says except for the multiple hit boxes. Doing a free stun and canceling the rest of the animation is totally exploitable even when it cost initiative which is already a really low amount imo.

Holy kitten you mean anet still hasn't fixed Pistol Whip's tooltip? Good god.

I'm still not sure where you're pulling this 'free' part from. It still costs 5 ini just like if you'd used the rest of the cast. Anet can def fix it but it's not going to change anything.If every skill allowed you to just jump during it to prevent you from making a bad play than every build would be broken. But at the moment the build that stops you from using an unnecessary pistol whip that roots you for 1.25 secs is this one. You can do this at zero risk and it’ll still use pulmonary impact if it interrupted which is unblockable 1.5-2.5k damage. It should be fixed tbh even if it’s not as annoying or useful as the staff 3 bug

Clarification - not here to argue about whether or not it should be 'fixed'. Just pointing out that your perception of how good using Pistol Whip that way is totally wrong.

You admitted you barely seeing anyone do it - why do you think that is? I haven't seen any other player give it a go, either. Except myself because I wanted to give it a try, but I stopped and never went back. Because using the skill that way sucks.

I am not wrong even Sindrener points out that part of outplaying opponents is timing your pistol whips, repositioning them and stowing/canceling them. This is one of the tools in your arsenal for outplaying opponents and if you don’t ever use it you are missing out. The fact you claimed it’s useless doesn’t mean much, I don’t see it much because I’m not stupid enough to sit in range of pistol whip. Also when you claimed it was useless you also got 75% of the facts wrong so who’s perception here is really wrong????