Edge of the Mists can improve overall WvW

[Sovereign.1093]

@hunkamania.7561 said:EoTM has some positives

• No mounts
• No gliders
• No upgraded towers
• No upgraded keeps
• Mega servers
• No banners

The map just sucks and the rewards are lacking but there's a lot of positives.

mounts and gliders should be in. =) its a big map. same reason why red bl was not popular before. took us ages to go from point a to b

[hunkamania.7561]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:EoTM has some positives

• No mounts
• No gliders
• No upgraded towers
• No upgraded keeps
• Mega servers
• No banners

The map just sucks and the rewards are lacking but there's a lot of positives.

mounts and gliders should be in. =) its a big map. same reason why red bl was not popular before. took us ages to go from point a to b

It's still not popular. I don't see your point.. mounts are used mainly to run away from fights and avoid combat. Game was better without them. Also Mount stomps are bad. Mounts are just something we don't need. Gliders are not as bad but we really don't need them either Anet just wants to sell glider skins to more people. Waste of the devs time.

[Justine.6351]

Sort of like strike missions and raids, take eotm away from Wvwers and put more pve aspects into it but keep the 3 faction setup. Make it a true halfway between wvw and pve.

! Also, keep downed state there and remove it from wvw.

[Sovereign.1093]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:EoTM has some positives

• No mounts
• No gliders
• No upgraded towers
• No upgraded keeps
• Mega servers
• No banners

The map just sucks and the rewards are lacking but there's a lot of positives.

mounts and gliders should be in. =) its a big map. same reason why red bl was not popular before. took us ages to go from point a to b

It's still not popular. I don't see your point.. mounts are used mainly to run away from fights and avoid combat. Game was better without them. Also Mount stomps are bad. Mounts are just something we don't need. Gliders are not as bad but we really don't need them either Anet just wants to sell glider skins to more people. Waste of the devs time.

thats your perspective though, unless you have player data?

we use mounts to run after the enemy. i like them, now i can chase those nike players.

mount stomp is no downstate with extra steps. gliders are fun. players can respond fast to things being attacked.

thats your opinion though.

the only waste the devs did was cancel wvw tournaments

[Stand The Wall.6987]

change it so when you fall to death in eotm it sends you to regular wvw.

[Liston.9708]

Don’t waste any time allotted for wvw development on eotm. There are already not enough resources spent on wvw.. (if any tbh)

[KeyOrion.9506]

Talisman comes to mind. Change the center map. Switch out EBG with the Edge of the Mist map. At least once or twice a month during reset. Variety is the spice of life.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

again: if the alliances come, and concentrate wvw playerbase, the maps will be full enough for "two ebgs".@ standthewall: that does not really make sense. if anything, EotM should just made part of regular wvw.@sovereign : (outside of mounts beeing rather bad overal than healthy for the game) i'd still prefer a leaderbord-reward system over tournaments tbh.__besides, what we don't need is it to become pve content, of all possible things. dev's somehow hinted that wvw gets its update, and by then it should simply be adjusted to the rest of wvw maps, that cannot be this complicated. it merely atm has some special snowflake rules, which will hurt nobody if they're gone.

it cannot fully substitute a regular border map nor EBG, it simply is way too small for that cause. not enough land mass. still possible to fight there, if it'd make sense for people to do so.i honestly did not realize it is connected to the megaservers, because it's still empty in most cases (i did only visit the arena once, and yeah, its kinda similar to the one in obsidian sanctum)

[hunkamania.7561]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:EoTM has some positives

• No mounts
• No gliders
• No upgraded towers
• No upgraded keeps
• Mega servers
• No banners

The map just sucks and the rewards are lacking but there's a lot of positives.

mounts and gliders should be in. =) its a big map. same reason why red bl was not popular before. took us ages to go from point a to b

It's still not popular. I don't see your point.. mounts are used mainly to run away from fights and avoid combat. Game was better without them. Also Mount stomps are bad. Mounts are just something we don't need. Gliders are not as bad but we really don't need them either Anet just wants to sell glider skins to more people. Waste of the devs time.

thats your perspective though, unless you have player data?

we use mounts to run after the enemy. i like them, now i can chase those nike players.

mount stomp is no downstate with extra steps. gliders are fun. players can respond fast to things being attacked.

thats your opinion though.

the only waste the devs did was cancel wvw tournaments

• red bl is dead and can't Q reset. Ptters like u play it
• mounts suck
• tournaments won't do anything since the game is dead.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:EoTM has some positives

• No mounts
• No gliders
• No upgraded towers
• No upgraded keeps
• Mega servers
• No banners

The map just sucks and the rewards are lacking but there's a lot of positives.

mounts and gliders should be in. =) its a big map. same reason why red bl was not popular before. took us ages to go from point a to b

It's still not popular. I don't see your point.. mounts are used mainly to run away from fights and avoid combat. Game was better without them. Also Mount stomps are bad. Mounts are just something we don't need. Gliders are not as bad but we really don't need them either Anet just wants to sell glider skins to more people. Waste of the devs time.

thats your perspective though, unless you have player data?

we use mounts to run after the enemy. i like them, now i can chase those nike players.

mount stomp is no downstate with extra steps. gliders are fun. players can respond fast to things being attacked.

thats your opinion though.

the only waste the devs did was cancel wvw tournaments

• red bl is dead and can't Q reset. Ptters like u play it
• mounts suck
• tournaments won't do anything since the game is dead.

That... was succinct.

[Sovereign.1093]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:EoTM has some positives

• No mounts
• No gliders
• No upgraded towers
• No upgraded keeps
• Mega servers
• No banners

The map just sucks and the rewards are lacking but there's a lot of positives.

mounts and gliders should be in. =) its a big map. same reason why red bl was not popular before. took us ages to go from point a to b

It's still not popular. I don't see your point.. mounts are used mainly to run away from fights and avoid combat. Game was better without them. Also Mount stomps are bad. Mounts are just something we don't need. Gliders are not as bad but we really don't need them either Anet just wants to sell glider skins to more people. Waste of the devs time.

thats your perspective though, unless you have player data?

we use mounts to run after the enemy. i like them, now i can chase those nike players.

mount stomp is no downstate with extra steps. gliders are fun. players can respond fast to things being attacked.

thats your opinion though.

the only waste the devs did was cancel wvw tournaments

• red bl is dead and can't Q reset. Ptters like u play it
• mounts suck
• tournaments won't do anything since the game is dead.

proof?

[Voltekka.2375]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:Haha, this thread is so typical of this forum. Some people hate everything about it and some people overlook all the problems with it. No one is prepared to analyze the actual good and bad things about the map so everyone just blurts out oppinions. The truth is that some things were good and some were bad.

The mechanics involving the different worlds shows that ArenaNet explored and invested in the tech of a true WvW mode where three matchups are made and everyone gets pitted against oneanother and reshuffled. It is an interesting forerunner to Alliances and the world creation still serves some purposes. Sadly, like most other tech with potential it was just left to fester and few things have been done with it. It can be debated whether the design was better than other options (like Alliances) but that the tech exists shows that there is potential and overall the tech existing has given some use to other things.

Everything else has been said countless of times. The map is not good and the pictures the OP posted shows why more so than it shows something good. People did not play it as entry level content or as a playable overflow. They played it because it had superior rewards and they stopped playing when it didn't (including tomes). It began before pips. That it had better rewards was never a good thing and the map kept WvW players out while the rewards kept PvE players in so it didn't add much to WvW and it is questionable whether it added much to PvE or as a sluice from PvE to WvW (it is highly doubtful tbh).

I can't think of many players who tried EotM and developed a WvW mentality from it or anything else that in any way had aided WvW as a whole.

Finally, someone who speaks the truth. Thank you

[Sovereign.1093]

eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Sovereign.1093 said:eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future.

Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future.

Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide.

well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future.

Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide.

well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner.

Except they dominated because they had more players. That’s what I was getting at when I replied to your post about claiming it solved the population difference by saying “not really”.

[XenesisII.1540]

So no one remembers back when one side would dominate the map in the first hour and then everyone would abandon it for another map? Eotm only provided one good thing, having the 3 sided megaserver to fill up the map, other than that people only played it for rewards, because there was nothing else to play it for, there was no upgrading, barely anyone bothered to defend unless they had greater numbers, it was just go around capturing as much as you could with the odd time running into a zerg that actually stayed to fight.

Wvw obviously needs a big shake up to revamp and refresh it and provide some motivation to play it and win, and not just trying to shove everyone back into eotm which frankly will do nothing but continue to lead wvw down the same ole road of death.

The shake up could be in a few different ways, they could get rid of the home borderland concept and rebuild those maps into balanced 3 way maps like ebg so in the future it'll be easy to raise or lower the amount of maps in matchups. They could add some more tug of war game play between the 3 sides, or a lattice system, or required captures to hit big targets, to force players to be in more concentrated areas, and not just play hit and run sneak a tower and then jump map to avoid enemies, this type of low contesting ppting is one of the things that has helped turn the mode stale over the years. Or maybe after alliances the tournaments will give ppting a purpose again we won't need to change much else. Only question is, when.

[Swamurabi.7890]

I remember when EotM was "supposed" to be where new things were tested before they were brought into WvW.

I remember that EotM hasn't changed since it was first released.

I remember using EotM to level up my toons before joining WvW.

I remember a certain guild that would turn a map into a three way PvE champ train.

I remember that most instances ended up having one color, usually green, with more population than the other two.

I remember having fun as a Necro fearing large numbers of opponents off the edge.

[lunaeclipse.6843]

IIRC blue keep was the most defensible in EotM. Just sub out Blue BL for EotM and we're good. Keep Green BL as Alpine, Blue BL as Eotm, and Red BL as desert. Done.

Make EotM great again.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Ertrak.9506 said:IIRC blue keep was the most defensible in EotM. Just sub out Blue BL for EotM and we're good. Keep Green BL as Alpine, Blue BL as Eotm, and Red BL as desert. Done.

Make EotM great again.

The blue side definitely was fun to troll the opposing players. I would often get the bridge to a sliver of health and then destroy it as they were crossing. Or an unsuspecting fear wall on a tight corner.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future.

Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide.

well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner.

Except they dominated because they had more players. That’s what I was getting at when I replied to your post about claiming it solved the population difference by saying “not really”.

actually it does in a way. it's more fair than 4 vs 40. :)

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future.

Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide.

well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner.

Except they dominated because they had more players. That’s what I was getting at when I replied to your post about claiming it solved the population difference by saying “not really”.

actually it does in a way. it's more fair than 4 vs 40. :)

So.. you would be willing to have a single player hotjoin system where you were distributed to the next world which needed a player?

No queuing up with squads/parties? Really?

Because that would be the only way you could assure ‘balance’ of numbers.

[RedShark.9548]

@"ViperWire.4261" said:

Add pips to Edge of the mists, keep mounts out.

To do so should not take too much effort from the few remaining Anet staff to add pips and this should improve fight quality on home WvW and give an outlet for people that want to zerg/ktrain everything. So much could have been done or rather not done to avoid this state of decay in WvW, but given where it is right now, what do we have to lose with seeing if bringing pips to Edge of the Mists improves quality in home WvW and improves quantity in Edge of the Mists.

Back in it's prime, populated instances of Edge of the Mists enabled the WvW community to communicate with players from other servers which was great most of the time. Granted the overall Gw2 population has declined greatly since then. A lot of players that were bored of PvE and not attracted to the semi-serious nature of home WvW would go into Edge of the Mists for a more relaxed WvW experience (this was also before auto upgrades and someone asks for donations to pay for Keep upgrades). It was not as demoralizing for new players or more casual players when we lose objectives in Edge of the Mists compared to home maps where chat is likely complaining if an upgraded objective was lost. I know firsthand a good amount of PvE players with little to no interest in PvP would end up in Edge of the Mists and followed me only to tell me how it was the most fun they have ever had in Gw2 when the match was over or when they had to leave. It even helped some commanders that were not so capable in home WvW learn some of the basics of leading without such a strong backlash if you failed to win a fight or attack/defend an objective. Edge of the Mists even helped guilds that were split across servers WvW together when they were the same color/team without needing to transfer, especially helpful for those guild mates on other servers that have not signed in for a while but are the same color/team as you (often not these players either did not have enough gold or incentive to transfer to their friend's server).

Nowadays in Edge of the Mists you would be lucky to find 1 enemy at any given time much less find a sizeable group that is taking objectives and/or ambushing incoming enemies. I know that I would go to Edge of the Mists commanding pugs again even if there were only enough people to fill 1-2 instances and I am sure there are others that would too.

As a Maguuma player since beta, I do not ever recall any Anet devs playing on our server in WvW. Magswag, GLFR, and the blessed trolling was far too overwhelming for Anet staff to comprehend, especially in WvW. Although, in Edge of the Mists there were a few times we had someone from Anet play on the same team and were able to offer feedback for home WvW and Edge of the Mists that actually was implemented. Equally, there were a lot more Anet staff on enemy teams in Edge of the Mists than in our home WvW which offered the best kind of loot bags and was also refreshing to see Anet staff playing their own game which is much better than devs that 'balance' game modes they do not actively or competitively participate in.

Nobody was complaining about losing things because they could cap it back for more loot.

Ppl even complained when a group went and defended stuff or killed the enemy over and over again, because it would stop the karmatrain.

Most of your points listed had absolutely NOTHING to do with wvw, you even admit that pve ppl went there not to play wvw, but to farm.

Since it has nothing to do with wvw, it should NEVER give wvw rewards to ppl who play on it.

It rustles my kitten jimmies to see ppl who just want to karmatrain all day long, avoid most fights and still reap all the wvw rewards, holy cow.

Idc, give ppl as much karma as they want, but dont give them ANY wvw rewards, no wvw xp, no badges of honor and no pips.

Earn that kitten, normal wvw maps already turned into enough karmatraining, we dont need more.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future.

Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide.

well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner.

Except they dominated because they had more players. That’s what I was getting at when I replied to your post about claiming it solved the population difference by saying “not really”.

actually it does in a way. it's more fair than 4 vs 40. :)

A lot of the time, the difference in populations were just like that too. I believe this may have been due to overflows.

[XenesisII.1540]

@Ertrak.9506 said:IIRC blue keep was the most defensible in EotM. Just sub out Blue BL for EotM and we're good. Keep Green BL as Alpine, Blue BL as Eotm, and Red BL as desert. Done.

Make EotM great again.

Except for the fact that they all have different amount of objectives, points, and bloodlust ruins, which is why you can't switch out a home borderland for whatever, and when you do you need to do it for all 3 sides to keep it fair and even, eotm also doesn't follow the upgrade system of the wvw maps, the only possible map it could replace without needing to change anything is ebg, but get ready for the pitchforks then. We've been over this too many times to count in the forums already.