Hardcore Character Option

[Westenev.5289]

@Henry.5713 said:This kinda system fits a solo orientated game. It fits a multiplayer game that allows you to group up for solo content with appropriate boss scaling and all that. Loved it in Diablo 2 to spice things up.

But does it fit content which requires a certain number of players to stay alive till the end to be able to complete mechanics or to kill bosses in time? Many mistakes done by your allies are far more punishing here than just losing a single person's damage or support. Quite a few mechanics require you to rely on a single person to complete a task that might insta wipe you otherwise like Dhuum greens. There are mechanics which make your staying alive depend entirely on your allies and their performances like Samarog and Matthias CC phases.

Such a hardcore system would be a team effort more than anything else. Not to mention downstate and it's effects on how content is balanced. Would we allow ressing before full death or would people die instantly?

As a person who loves running support, I actually think the teamplay aspect is a benifit. It would add impact and a sense of urgency, since I don't want anyone to die.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@Westenev.5289 said:

@Henry.5713 said:This kinda system fits a solo orientated game. It fits a multiplayer game that allows you to group up for solo content with appropriate boss scaling and all that. Loved it in Diablo 2 to spice things up.

But does it fit content which requires a certain number of players to stay alive till the end to be able to complete mechanics or to kill bosses in time? Many mistakes done by your allies are far more punishing here than just losing a single person's damage or support. Quite a few mechanics require you to rely on a single person to complete a task that might insta wipe you otherwise like Dhuum greens. There are mechanics which make your staying alive depend entirely on your allies and their performances like Samarog and Matthias CC phases.

Such a hardcore system would be a team effort more than anything else. Not to mention downstate and it's effects on how content is balanced. Would we allow ressing before full death or would people die instantly?

As a person who loves running support, I actually think the teamplay aspect is a benifit. It would add impact and a sense of urgency, since I don't want anyone to die.

It would also make rezzing skills/builds like geyser ele, blood magic necro, guard MI much more important.

[kratan.4619]

You could just level up to 80 killing the bandits trying to poison the water in Queensdale I guess.

[Tzarakiel.7490]

@Jojo.6140 said:I would like to see some hardcore character mechanic, but not as you describe it. A permadeath mechanic doesnt make the game itself harder, but just punishes a mistake made harder.

I'd rather have something like the following for Hardcore Chars:

• All your stats are taken x0.7
• In places where lvl-scaling is active, you are scaled down 2 more levels than the default
• Amount of exp required for lvl-ups increased, tomes of knowledge disabled
• Locked out of WvW (so noone can complain about people with lower stats running with the zerg)

Rest could stay the same. Now that would actually make the game more challenging than on a normal character.

If anet did that they would have to block access to group content for hardcore players. After all if you don't even try to do your best you're just wasting everyone elses time.

[Cranky wo Coffee.5914]

This was successful in GW and I absolutely think it could work here with modifications. We already have Challenge Motes.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hard_mode

[Wizler.8192]

I played hardcore a couple times in Diablo 2 and I'm glad I at least tried it. Kinda fun but that feeling when I died after so much investment... wow, never again!

[Danikat.8537]

@kratan.4619 said:You could just level up to 80 killing the bandits trying to poison the water in Queensdale I guess.

That is the way a lot of people got the survivor title in GW1. They picked an area which gave decent XP where it was unlikely you'd be killed and did that over and over to get the title.

I have to admit after they made it reset when you died instead of being impossible to complete I went that route to get the title on my main character. But I also have a 'real' survivor character who levelled up normally, has completed all 3 campaigns on normal mode and still hasn't died. Only problem is now I don't play as much I'm paranoid about playing her in case I do something stupid and get killed.

[kharmin.7683]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Please play a proper RPG if you seek challenges like that. A casual action MMO like GW2 isn't the right place for such a mechanic.

No need for you to play it then. Just because something isnt fun for you doesnt mean others cant enjoy it.

No need for the developers to waste their time and resources in building this for a game that isn't really designed to do it. There are other games, more RPG centric, that are better suited for this type of content. Just because something isn't fun for you doesn't mean that the game needs to make radical changes to suit your desired game-play.

Besides, I could make the same argument about LW. In a game designed with active, skill based combat, why waste time making unrelated content? Trivial story missions, cutscenes & dialogue, gimmicky fights with brand new special action skills, animations and effects.Well, as the game is pretty much centered on this type of content, this part of your argument doesn't make much sense.

Why waste so much time designing new zones that the majority of players try once then never return? There are other games much better suited to story based content. Honestly when people make arguments like this it just sounds like you are saying "I wouldnt have fun with this content so no one should be able to".No, it's a response to suggestions like yours that would radically change the game's base design.

[saerni.2584]

You can always make your own rules for how you play.

Ironman account/character ideas:

• No trading post
• On death delete your equipped gear/character
• No way points (except major cities or where otherwise impossible)
• [insert adventure here, like playing for a week without using an active heal skill]

Just don’t forget to warn people if you aren’t going to do something they expect in a group setting.

[White Kitsunee.4620]

While it's a really cool idea that will add replayability.

Alot of the core game would need to be adjusted up to make it an actual challenge.Which means is not a 0 investment addition.

That being said core game could 100% use a tune up so maybe it's not so bad.

[Ryou.2398]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:It would be cool to see hardcore (1 life) characters added, where they can only group with other hardcore players in dungeons/fractals/raids, and cant receive items from softcore players. It could create a different meta for pve, add some replayability to the game, and provide more challenging & meaningful end game progression. Since leveing to 80 and grinding gold/currency wouldnt really be the challenge of it, hardcore players would still play with regular characters in open world to avoid dividing the playerbase too much. Griefing probably wouldnt be much of a problem because of how mob aggro works and how easy it is to get out of combat.

Jumping puzzles would become the most elite and daring activity there is. Completing the story missions would feel like a huge accomplishment. Legendaries would become a status symbol again. Hardcore guilds would become known for reaching high fractal levels or completing CM's and all the raids. Even if you didnt ever make a hardcore character yourself it would still create a new (hopefully supportive) community of players that you could interact with. I personally never really play hardcore in games but I like the idea of the gamemode and think it can add a lot of positive things to a game.

Personally id rather they just add a difficulty modes like in older mmos, this in my opinion is more dividing the players and will not help the game, there will always be a meta but they certainly can always be closer to each other.

[kharmin.7683]

Wouldn't difficulty modes divide the player base, too? Each map would have to have a different instance based on difficulty.

[Rauderi.8706]

You're free to delete your characters as any time. Just keep in mind how easy it is to splat from a long fall or dropped from one of GW2's many, many, many one-hit KO mechanics.

[Blude.6812]

I know what I feel about ideas like this, but commenting truthfully wouldn't be constructive, so a simple NO will suffice.

[kratan.4619]

They could add some titles, like GW1, about not dying for x number of levels. This would still give a form of reward for accomplishing the task and give a "hardcore" type of gameplay if you wanted to go for that title. That may appease a greater audience, without having to create new game play rules.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Please play a proper RPG if you seek challenges like that. A casual action MMO like GW2 isn't the right place for such a mechanic.

No need for you to play it then. Just because something isnt fun for you doesnt mean others cant enjoy it.

No need for the developers to waste their time and resources in building this for a game that isn't really designed to do it. There are other games, more RPG centric, that are better suited for this type of content. Just because something isn't fun for you doesn't mean that the game needs to make radical changes to suit your desired game-play.

Besides, I could make the same argument about LW. In a game designed with active, skill based combat, why waste time making unrelated content? Trivial story missions, cutscenes & dialogue, gimmicky fights with brand new special action skills, animations and effects.Well, as the game is pretty much centered on this type of content, this part of your argument doesn't make much sense.

Why waste so much time designing new zones that the majority of players try once then never return? There are other games much better suited to story based content. Honestly when people make arguments like this it just sounds like you are saying "I wouldnt have fun with this content so no one should be able to".No, it's a response to suggestions like yours that would radically change the game's base design.

And how would this change the game's design? The only things i suggested were: 1 life characters, and HC only character groups for instances. The biggest development challenges would likely be adding a HC wallet and bank/achievements. You are still just stating biased opinions without making any kind of constructive criticism.

[kharmin.7683]

Ok, apparently you know a lot more about game development than I do. Good luck with your suggestion.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

They could add some titles, like GW1, about not dying for x number of levels.

Can I stand in LA and use tomes to get the levels?

[Etria.3642]

I don't see why you would require a single thing different than it already is. You just delete your character when you die. What you're actually asking for, are achievements/titles for DOING it, so you can display the accomplishment to others. This also, of course, invalidates all sorts of gameplay already in the game as endgame gear. Can't die in pvp? wvw? raids? fractals? strike missions? Heck, what about southsun survival?

I think adding something like completing the entire storyline to the end of chapter six without dying or using tomes/scrolls/etc might be nifty. I couldn't/wouldn't do it, but others would try. This would mean you'd have to get to a reasonable level, exploring maps including orr, all without dying. If you did all story missions while in a group this wouldn't be difficult to perhaps require it be soloed? If you die, the achievement disappears, you get to pick then whether to delete all your stuff or not.

[kharmin.7683]

@Etria.3642 said:I don't see why you would require a single thing different than it already is. You just delete your character when you die. What you're actually asking for, are achievements/titles for DOING it, so you can display the accomplishment to others. This also, of course, invalidates all sorts of gameplay already in the game as endgame gear. Can't die in pvp? wvw? raids? fractals? strike missions? Heck, what about southsun survival?

I think adding something like completing the entire storyline to the end of chapter six without dying or using tomes/scrolls/etc might be nifty. I couldn't/wouldn't do it, but others would try. This would mean you'd have to get to a reasonable level, exploring maps including orr, all without dying. If you did all story missions while in a group this wouldn't be difficult to perhaps require it be soloed? If you die, the achievement disappears, you get to pick then whether to delete all your stuff or not.

Heck, make it account bound so that you only get one shot at it.

[Obfuscate.6430]

They DID have something similar in Guild Wars 1 - you had to make it to max level without dying to receive an achievement. I would ditch the "your character is deleted/permadead" aspect, and rather, it becomes an ordinary character if you fail - giving the player the option to keep this character they worked on, or deleting it themselves. Potentially there could be associated achievements and titles so even if they fail they can still display their achievements.This idea is PHENOMENAL and would absolutely add replayability and challenge to the content in the game. Like, one thing that has bothered me is that you can't go back and get those achievements you got when you were new, so making a new character now is boring. But with this idea of yours, you could potentially bring back old achievements or /and add more and new ones!
I would LOVE this SO much.Mounts and gliding change the depth of the challenge so they could maybe add a no-mount/glider option for these characters too.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@Etria.3642 said:I don't see why you would require a single thing different than it already is. You just delete your character when you die. What you're actually asking for, are achievements/titles for DOING it, so you can display the accomplishment to others. This also, of course, invalidates all sorts of gameplay already in the game as endgame gear. Can't die in pvp? wvw? raids? fractals? strike missions? Heck, what about southsun survival?

I think adding something like completing the entire storyline to the end of chapter six without dying or using tomes/scrolls/etc might be nifty. I couldn't/wouldn't do it, but others would try. This would mean you'd have to get to a reasonable level, exploring maps including orr, all without dying. If you did all story missions while in a group this wouldn't be difficult to perhaps require it be soloed? If you die, the achievement disappears, you get to pick then whether to delete all your stuff or not.

I think it would be important for HC characters to stand out, something like the small pvp rank or world completion icon. And yeah, it would be debatable whether or not to make an exception for pvp and wvw. HC would mainly be an incentive for players to group together and experience the game in a different way, and add some replayability to the leveling/gearing process.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Please play a proper RPG if you seek challenges like that. A casual action MMO like GW2 isn't the right place for such a mechanic.

No need for you to play it then. Just because something isnt fun for you doesnt mean others cant enjoy it.

No need for the developers to waste their time and resources in building this for a game that isn't really designed to do it. There are other games, more RPG centric, that are better suited for this type of content. Just because something isn't fun for you doesn't mean that the game needs to make radical changes to suit your desired game-play.

For all you know 1 dev could create a working hardcore build in a couple weeks.Or not. Or it can be easy to build but then the complaints start coming in about this is unfair and that is unfair and then more global changes have to be made etc. A new mode never really stays with just something simple in the end, so it's much more plausible that it's more than just a couple of weeks of one dev. Give people a finger...Besides, I could make the same argument about LW. In a game designed with active, skill based combat, why waste time making unrelated content? Trivial story missions, cutscenes & dialogue, gimmicky fights with brand new special action skills, animations and effects. Why waste so much time designing new zones that the majority of players try once then never return? There are other games much better suited to story based content. Honestly when people make arguments like this it just sounds like you are saying "I wouldnt have fun with this content so no one should be able to".You can't make the same argument if a lot of people do that content. I honestly can't see a lot of people being interested in playing harcore characters, especially if it's just a character type that is gone when it's dead and there are no additional rewards or adaptations made for it.

I will agree that it's problematic that the new zones are just momentary content that gets abandoned one after the other, but that just means that they need to do that content differently...not cut it out entirely. So that's not a matter of whether or not resources should be dedicated to that but rather how to use those resources.

Hardcore characters is something new that you need to make resources free for and probably doesn't have much appeal. Then there's no point in even going there.

[itspomf.9523]

I support this idea.

Maybe then all the people complaining about the game being "too easy" will feel properly challenged.

Don't even worry about the wallet stuff. When someone wipes in a raid and 1000g of items disappears from the economy in an instant, it literally won't be any different from how many languishing accounts or massive bank expansions have been holding onto resources for years.

[kratan.4619]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

They could add some titles, like GW1, about not dying for x number of levels.

Can I stand in LA and use tomes to get the levels?

I wouldn't even care, I only need to know that I did it without tomes. What other people think about how I earned my title doesn't matter to me.