Cantha and the tengu.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@"Dante.1763" said:

Or they could do something like they did in GW1. "You are viewing past events and playing this story through someone elses eyes" kinda thing. So you would play through the pact story and all that from the point -after- a faction is chosen.

normally a good idea, but still, they'd have to voice the Tengu for all that content. Honestly not worth it in my opinion

in gw1 there was only the human race. So there was only the male and female voice of that race.now there's 10 voices, or 12 if the add the tengu to that board.

And "playing through someone elses eyes" i almost as convulated as just selecting a different character in your roster for a real experience

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I would personally love having tengu, and would be willing to make concessions to have it happen. Basically remove all the barrier that keep it from happening.Problem 1: having to remake all the old armors and outfits for a new race.Solution: restrict armor skins to cultural tengu only skins and any newly released canthan skins. Possible exceptions being lengendary armors. This can be achieve by the same mechanism as hellfire and radient armor works for the cultural skins.Problem 2: you would have record a back catalog of line for dungeons, raids, living story episodes.Solution: start all old content with a disclaimer that you are reliving events of the commander who is canonically a human male, so all old voice acting is covered by the male human voice. Tengu character are not the commander, they do not enter the story until xpac 3.Problem 3: tengu characters would need a personal story, hot, pof, and ls2 3 and 4.Solution: tengu character are not the commander, do not have access to these storyline. Their story starts at xpac 3. Because of these restrictions, they should either start at lvl 80 or mb at lvl 70, but by the time they leave dominion of the winds they are at lvl 80. Tengu should be a elite race, which means to access them, you need to have at least 1 character at lvl 80.

[Blur.3465]

With the addition of Scrying Pool, I imagine that it could be a way for Tengu characters to just go back in time and experience past events as another race (Charr/Human...whatever!)It's achievable, anything is achievable. No need to voice over old content and story for them. Just push the Canthan story and create new leveling zone/experience for Tengu IN Cantha or Dominion of Winds. They could start from level 60 or so and just have like some stories that lead up to the point where the actual Commander arrives to Cantha.Model itself should not be a problem as they're already rigged off of Charr model.

[particlepinata.9865]

I think the expac will get a new race option, likely the Tengu. It would be an expac race, could be full 80 or not. If starting with level 1 (or lets say 40) , there could be a island (like gw 1 factions and nightfall had), with own levelingexperience/ps . It would need to have proper tutorials (especially cc and bosses etc) .Players can choose if they start a new charr of any of the now 6 races, or with a earlier leveled char. When choosing a tengu, you do have limited earlier story and armors, thats the consequense. Who doesnt like that, fine its not like the other 5 races are going away. It would not make sense that the new race would be able to play earlier story, which it wasnt part of anyway. Biggest point, an expac needs a unique selling point, this is the best choice in my opinion. And thats makes more things possible B)

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Don't get any unsubstantiated expectations for something like this, though.

You might want it, but if they don't actually make the Tengu playable don't let your misplaced expectations dictate your reactions.

If they add them, cool, sure, whatever. However I highly doubt we will be getting a new playable race out of the next expansion. There is an unreasonable amount of work that would need to go into that, which I know has been rehashed over and over again whenever this topic has arisen and with how content dead PoF ended up being and how persistently starved for content people have been ever since I don't think devoting the amount of time needed for a new race would be the best approach.

Who knows.

Knowing full well it wont be the cantha I remember and love, there is only one reason Id ever submit myself to more human lore drizzled all over everything. And that would be if they gave us tengu, im sorry my expectations are that it would be playable. That it will be a kitten haven and that EVERYTHING will have anime references everywhere with nothing of the original cantha to be seen. Im not excited as much as I am dissapointed, knowing this saga will be rushed to finality the race I play now will get next to nothing (I doubt norn will get any focus this saga. Seems charr are the real focus.) So I mean all this did was give me a small inkling of hope friend, I know im foolish to hope as time and again the prove to me im not the demographic they make the game for anymore. But Ill savor the hope while I have it, Im not sure how much more disappointments I can handle with this game anymore.

It can only truly be a disappointment if you continue to set unrealistic expectations for it. While yes it would probably be nice to see new races, I just don't think its a feasible endeavor to embark upon just for the sake of adding a new race. There is a

lot

that needs to go into that and their time and effort is better spent on actual gameplay elements to keep the game going. It doesn't really have to do with them not catering to "your" demographic and I, at least personally, believe that its just not a realistic expectation to have for them going into any expansion. Like I said, the amount of time and effort needed for that is

a lot

. So it really doesn't have to do with a different demographic.

It really isn't that difficult, you can keep saying it is but I've watched and seen for myself what it would entail. The armor is put into a program that snaps it to the portions of their model that it can link too which is why charr have so many issues. I doubt they hand craft everything for each race, because pardon my french if they did than they clearly aren't good with charr or norn and it would make sense as to why they were ignored most of the time. Tengu and Charr share the same model and the only difference is the posture really, so Tengu are there and are done. They had a face lift in HoT, and it was because they were going to be playable and the reasoning they gave as to why they decided against it is because tengu and rev's coming out at the same time almost assured there would be nothing but tengu revenants..

My expectations are low, so low I expect play-ability and that might be a stretch. I've learned to really look at games as "What gimmick are you going to try and use, to push your money milking scheme?" Why wont races happen? Simple. Can't be milked like mounts or gliders, that is why we won't see it and honestly Im over the human centric kitten. So if it comes out and isn't too my taste or it didn't manage to inspire me to be interested that will be on them, but I know full well it wont be the cantha I want and will be some weird anime thing. (Id be surprised if it was still imperial china/fedual japan in theme.) And all the armor will only really look good on humans again, so no my expectations are as low as they can be. But I can still want and hope, The game has been a disappointment for years to me and as it goes the reason I get on are the friends I've made not for my own personal goals or machinations. They failed to make me care in PoF, The last time I cared was HoT which in my opinion was the best content release (Content wise) they had ever done. Story has gotten better over time but it just... I don't know I don't really play mmo's for a story, it never works out and if I wanted story id go play Witcher 3... or dragon age origins or any other number of single player game.

Part me however thinks... they might just be doing this as the "Oh kitten, in case of X break glass." And this will be the "Legion" that was to WoW to guild wars 2 which means they could pull out all the stops. Honestly they kind of have too... They've burned their player base so many times that Id be surprised if they held back and did a PoF that it would go over well.. (PoF was a mess at launch even worse than HoT because at least HoT was fun. The PoF maps were boring, large and empty with bounties kind of just being bleh..) Kind of one and done maps, with no reason to return to them due the HoT maps still having legendary crafting accessible through them and almost required to be done for said crafting.

You might not want, see or believe its possible.. I know it is and I know it wouldn't take them as much time as everyone claims or even as much work. They themselves said voice acting is neither that expensive or time consuming, and the model is basically done it just needs sprucing in the hair and face department but they data-mined tons of heads and accessories back durring HoT. Hell this thing has Idle animations just like the player races, and they had the voice of Illidan for the male PC they only needed the female PC. Seems close to shipping ready to me hoss~

It isn't just about the armor sets and animations.

They would need a starting zone, their own personal story, racial skills, voice actors for the player characters themselves. None of those things are cheap or simple, nor are they already done.

The starting zone alone would mean either adapting an existing area for it or developing an entirely new one, as well as creating a story to justify their presence and for it to fit within existing canon and tooling dialogue, missions, and such for it.

They would also need to create their racial story from level 2 to 30+, multiple variations mind you, so as to be on par with the personal stories of the existing races as their decisions during character creation determine what takes place in them.

Then from level 40 to 60+ they would need to create another whole new set of stories considering the timeline where the three orders (Priory, Vigil, Order of Whispers) have already been formed into the Pact.

Then from level 60 to 80 this is a similar endeavor as this section of the personal story involved the Pact a well as the fall of Zhaitan at the end.

It isn't some small undertaking and you can't neglect the effort that would need to go into it so that anyone who does want to play Tengu gets the effort put into their implementation that many would expect is due. Retconning existing lore into having the Tengu just being there from the beginning would defeat the purpose and just create a lot of unnecessary confusion.

You might not care terribly about the lore factor in regards to something like this but it is still a factor and one that would not be ignored were they ever to go about adding a new playable race. Like I said, its a much bigger thing than you might want to acknowledge.

Look they don't need a personal story I can break this down and make it work, make it work properly and make it work with LESS effort than people are asking for while retaining what it is people are asking for.

• They get an instanced ten level starting zone, within the dominion which showcases what has happened durring the time we have been galabanting around doing things. The commander falls in this saga and we somehow had ended up tied to them; This way we step into current events and simply are the commander. OR we forego the starting zone and just say we were one of the tengu who joined the pact; So you can go through the original arc (I have no clue why you'd want too.... the base games story is trash.)
• Make you start at level 70, you must have a level 80 on your account so you can make tengu.

And thats it, that is all you have to do. The lore!?!? LMFAO the lore of this game is a joke my friend, it pays no respect to established lore and merely does whatever is cool and needs to be done. We haven't had the dev's or the company respect their lore since this game came out; All this because the roleplayers want to have their character remain the same as everyone else. Which is 100% the problem and the fact that this is being used to hinder the development of cool things that would refresh the gameplay of core zones? This is the same tired arguement that is thrown out everytime a new race is brought up; This is the same tired arguement that has been debunked numerous times because we can just have them SKIP all of the original story as they were not there. You could even have the commander die at any point, we did die with balthazar we could insert our tengu there where they stepped up to fill those shoes. We could die to bangar due to the blow with the bow; And they could step in there and become the new commander. There are so many ways to make this work; We don't need a new starting zone, we don't need a 1 through 80 personal story we just need them to make it make sense.

Revenants are STILL not cannon outside of rytlock, so if you were a revenant in the prior arcs you're not cannon at all. Because he is the first revenant, they didn't care about the lore then and they didn't care about the lore when they turned balthazar evil. They didn't care about the lore when they introduced and killed vlast for NO REASON and they don't care about the lore now. There has never been a circumstance where they have cared about the lore at such a level it would hinder people from doing something in game, or obtaining something. non-humans using god power through the flame sword sohothin? Makes no sense. A charr becoming a shining blade? Makes no sense. Trahern dying to sate the rabid hate he had garnered for the SAKE of sating it and not for a worthwhile arc's close? Makes no sense.

So please I am a lore nerd, I love the lore of this world PRIOR to guild wars 2. But the sequel has done everything in its power to destroy established lore, heck even its own lore with stuff such as Asgeir and jormag. Jormag just let him go and it wasn't him punching his tooth out of his face and yeeting it down to hoelbrak, it was jormag giving it basically too him. Or the fact that it wasn't svanir pulling on the power and willingly succumbing for power, it was drakkar corrupting his mind and yadda yadda. No one is bad and everyone is redeemable, our villians are beyond god level threats and we are now expected to believe a charr with a magic bow.... Managed to bring us low? Us? Who has fought gods and monsters far beyond this charr, us who has more experience and battle prowess and wears LEGENDARY gear. Sure. Lore. Makes sense.... I guess... maybe.... wait... nevermind.

Tengu can happen, they should happen. I know they probs wont but I mean it would be a nice give for the fan-base. We have three humanoid races and two bestial races... one more bestial would even it out and be great.

I never said that it "couldn't" happen, I said that with the amount of effort that would need to be put into it, regardless of how much you want to downplay it and how much

you

don't think the lore needs to be considered, that it just isn't a feasible endeavor to undertake for an expansion

especially

at this point in time when content is the most important thing that they should be focusing on going forward.

I understand your personal feelings, I understand you would love to play the Tengu as a race and your beliefs on how it could be implemented with minimal time and effort...but that simply doesn't seem like the reality at this point due to the several reasons I pointed out in my previous post. This topic has been brought up before both of the previous expansions released, the reasons as to

why

they aren't likely to do it have been stated each time and I understand the vehemence to not simply take that as fact, because I also understand that when people want something badly enough they will make any kind of argument they can to justify the "why" and the "how". I understand you want to hold out hope that it will happen, maybe it will and maybe ANet will prove me and many others wrong and roll up with it as a surprise feature of the next expansion

however

it just doesn't seem like its a very realistic expectation, or hope, considering everything that has already been said on the topic.

And just to clarify...I have nothing against them adding another playable race. I think that'd be great, but it just does not look like it is something that is in the cards both based on things they have said in the past and the kind of effort that would need to be expended to do so. It is most certainly not just a one person job based on how ANet themselves would likely prefer to implement a new race were they to ever do so. This might be an MMORPG but ANet has historically implemented mechanics paired with lore. Even WvW has lore associated with it, not a lot, but it has justification

in the lore

(regardless of your feelings on how good or bad the lore is), so you can't expect them to just ignore that because you, and maybe others, aren't willing to accept the reality of the circumstances.

Also "they

should

happen". I mean I personally think ANet

should

remove downstate, I think ANet

should

rework how reviving works, I think ANet

should

do a lot of things. Neither you or I get to make those decisions for them, nor does that mean what either of us, or some others, think they

should

do would be the best course of action, or feasibly executed. For example, I do think ANet

should

remove downstate and rework revive mechanics,

however

I completely recognize that doing that simply isn't a realistic or feasible approach to resolving the issues I see that downstate has currently in the game (mostly to do with PvP/WvW). Obviously there are some exceptions to this but a compromise or general consensus has been arrived at in regards to those things, like recently the attempts to resolve the power creep issues in PvP/WvW and their work to make the game balance better, which that is still a work in progress.

All I have suggested to you, and others, was to be realistic and not to set expectations for something like them adding a new playable race with the expansion. Hope all you want, sure, but don't get your hopes up. Be realistic.

Welp, ill be completely honest with you because emotionally I don't support this game as much as Id like. Hell I hardly log in anymore because well a multitude of reasons, I never liked elona so the past two years of story and maps + E-specs were lost on me. I also hate human lore or human characters in games so I avoid it, I dislike having to be told the story of a race that is the least interesting acrossed ALL of fantasy regardless of place, time or world building. Im not a big anime fan and so I fear Cantha will be an anime + human centric + Human based E-specs and wont be the place I fell in love with or remember so fondly from back way when.

A lot of what they do is lost on me because I shrug it off, and Id honestly of preferred if Cantha was the living world story and the icebrood saga had taken its place as an expansion to really focus on norn/charr stuff. (Wont happen, anet seems to hate them with norn receiving much of the ire.) So I need something outside of the facets I know are not going to appeal to me. (I mean, realistically its going to be naruto time in guild wars. We all see it coming. Im not looking forward to weeb-land) Tengu being playable would make it bearable because at least its new and different, its NEVER been done in another game. And they look cool; Posture and body structure together they look cool and it would be nice to have a second race to love alongside the norn as I really, really don't care about the others.

As funny as it sounds I don't see the other races as anything other than enemies, because really they were all enemies at one point. Humans and their fanatic god worship, charr and their warmonger, asuran and their blatant disregard for life or the cycle and sylvari being dragon minions (They could of been cooler in appearence, but ok.) I really don't have much drawing me on the cosmetics end, and masteries are a given as are E-specs and like PoF I am banking on them kind of being a wash for me in theme because PoF didn't really gibe with me well.

Im expecting nothing of them, Im not even expecting them to make an expansion Id like. (Despite loving the old cantha, from gw1 and that being my start.) Im expecting them to bend me over and give me what for, with the lore I like being tattered and more forced ... eer.. stuff I guess? I stopped caring around the time joko died honestly. Joko was the one good thing to come out of S4, made me really feel like I had an enemy and as of now I kind of just shrug my shoulders and go "eh" at the story so there is that. So I guess we shall see~

I wont be mad if they don't make it playable, I don't expect them too. I Expect excuses as I have no faith in the company; Haven't in a long time and Im hoping they can prove me wrong. But Judging by them promising me norn stuff, and me not getting norn stuff Im going to go out on a limb and say it will be "Business as usual" and we will just get a HoT or PoF and not a proper expansion. ~ Cheers regardless

(this balance patch didn't fix as much as I'd like either. The cc-ping-pong is outta control, and some classes/specs feel terrible right now.)

Personal preference is fine and all, I get that, you like what you like and there is nothing wrong with that. However it just kind of feels like you're looking at this more from a perspective of "What hasn't ANet done for me specifically?" which seems to be leading you to a lot of "disappointment" in regards to the game. You're throwing around "promising me" and "me not getting" and acting as if ANet "hates" the Norn, which I highly...highly doubt, like some of what they do is some form of attack on you, or things that you like.

It does feel like you're basing the entirety of your desire to play the game on if they can specifically cater to your wants and desires and if they don't meet with those expectations then you just become further "disappointed" in them as a company. I'm not saying they are perfect, I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes and I have been one of the many that has criticized them over their handling of balance over the years, how heavily they cater to an extremely casual audience, and LW releases being rather shallow and able to be completed in a day or slightly longer, as well as the story being...ehh. However it does seem like all you care about is how they can only do what you want them to do as opposed to how they, as a video game developer, likely have vastly different intentions and direction for story, among other things, than you might like. Feedback is fine, criticism is fine, having different preferences is fine, its just you seem to be presenting a lot of "me me me" as opposed to being objective when looking at the game. Essentially "Do what I want or its horrible". If that is the case, I don't know, maybe take a break from the game for a bit to come back to it later so you have a fresher perspective, or maybe just don't play it anymore if it isn't aligning with the things that you specifically want. Or maybe you've already done those things and you still see no reason to return...and that is okay.

[Ron Longhorn.5167]

I just want to play a frikken Ritualist in GW2 :dizzy:I loved it in gw2^^

[VocalThought.9835]

I don't see how people say adding a new race is too difficult when ANet had nothing but time to add new races or any other content. Since the launch of GW2, Devs knew exactly what players wanted with new content. We wanted new races, new classes, mounts, better underwater content, new weapons, better AI for pets, and to use created characters as heroes.

Since the release of HOT, I feel the Devs have done plenty to change the trajectory of what the game is capable of, by adding Elite Specializations and a Mastery System. They always said their initial game system was not capable of taking the game the direction they wanted to go. So, I guess all this time since HOT their time was spent on just POF and the Living World? I hope not.

I don't think ANet will give all players what they want, but I do think they're capable of giving in on several requests and new races are doable. All ANet has to do to satisfy most players is to create at least 2 more Elite Specializations, but if they want to attract new players they would have to:

• Create at least 2 more races.
• Add Season 1 of Living World
• Create better AI for pets
• Improve and expand underwater content.

[Teratus.2859]

@Dante.1763 said:The only other race that fits into a canthan themed expansion which i will say i think would be neat are the Naga if they still exist that is. A playable snake species? bring it.

if they went the route of a new race, they could make a brand new race, they have the talent and as long as it fits into the lore, do it.

There's a problem with that one, The Naga were almost wiped out by the Jade wind several hundred years ago which turned their once peaceful race violent and hateful towards humans.This is why they are enemies in Gw Factions and seem like little more than monsters.

It's also unclear as to what happened to them during the Canthans war against non humans, The Tengu were driven off the continent that much we know but we still have no information to my knowledge as to what happened to the Naga, Yeti's, Dredge or any other non-human race that once lived there.

That said we also don't know whether or not creatures frozen in the Jade sea are fully dead or frozen in some kind of stasis and could be revived as it slowely turns back to water, if it's the latter then there is good potential there for the Naga to not only make a comeback in GW2 but also be the same peaceful Naga that were wiped out in the Jade Wind.Guess we'll have to wait and see what Anet is going to do with this region of the world, but boy am I excited ^^

[vandrefalk.6823]

@Fleebag.1384 said:Tengu mount would work too

Oh God, that statement! xD

Can't unthink those images that just played across my mind. The Kasmeer / Jory mounts parodies spring to mind :D

[KryTiKaL.3125]

Do not get it into your heads as an expectation for the Expansion that Tengu will be a playable race. Because if that doesn't happen then you're just going to show back up on these forums and throw a fit. We know nothing about this expansion aside from the fact that its like 90% confirmed to be in Cantha.

@particlepinata.9865 said:I think the expac will get a new race option, likely the Tengu. It would be an expac race, could be full 80 or not. If starting with level 1 (or lets say 40) , there could be a island (like gw 1 factions and nightfall had), with own levelingexperience/ps . It would need to have proper tutorials (especially cc and bosses etc) .Players can choose if they start a new charr of any of the now 6 races, or with a earlier leveled char. When choosing a tengu, you do have limited earlier story and armors, thats the consequense. Who doesnt like that, fine its not like the other 5 races are going away. It would not make sense that the new race would be able to play earlier story, which it wasnt part of anyway. Biggest point, an expac needs a unique selling point, this is the best choice in my opinion. And thats makes more things possible B)

@"VocalThought.9835" said:I don't see how people say adding a new race is too difficult when ANet had nothing but time to add new races or any other content. Since the launch of GW2, Devs knew exactly what players wanted with new content. We wanted new races, new classes, mounts, better underwater content, new weapons, better AI for pets, and to use created characters as heroes.

Since the release of HOT, I feel the Devs have done plenty to change the trajectory of what the game is capable of, by adding Elite Specializations and a Mastery System. They always said their initial game system was not capable of taking the game the direction they wanted to go. So, I guess all this time since HOT their time was spent on just POF and the Living World? I hope not.

I don't think ANet will give all players what they want, but I do think they're capable of giving in on several requests and new races are doable. All ANet has to do to satisfy most players is to create at least 2 more Elite Specializations, but if they want to attract new players they would have to:

• Create at least 2 more races.
• Add Season 1 of Living World
• Create better AI for pets
• Improve and expand underwater content.

The thing you have to understand about adding a new race if that these suggestions fall right into what I explained in an earlier post of mine. You want something so badly you come with any and all reasons as to the "why" and the "how" when those might not be the best way to approach doing something like this.

In the first instance here you're still running into the same hurdles that have been outlined before. They would need to devote dev time and resources into designing these areas, writing story for the intro missions as well as any further Personal Story missions that follow it. This would mean designing a similar amount of Personal Story choices when you are going through character creation, and even if you restrict that...all you're doing is compromising to such an extent that it will likely be a worse new character experience. Also no one is saying they don't want the Tengu as a playable race, @particlepinata.9865 , myself and others are implying that its just not feasible to the extent that it would need to be developed to actually do justice to even adding a new playable race to the game.

Now in the second instance, we already know they've had layoffs...which means if they did start developing anything before the months leading up to that then they likely lost a lot of the team that was working on it. We're also, still, talking about them needing to devote dev time and resources to developing new playable races specifically. With all that would be involved in doing that it isn't just a few people that do it, there is a team that works on that. The same team that likely develops and works on other things in the game. People to work on the story and dialogue, people to work on the cutscenes, people to work on the maps and environments, people to work on the NPCs in those environments, people to work on the racial specific armors and weapons, and among other things likely more technical. This would all be on top of having people working on story and dialogue for the broader expansion itself, maps and environments, new armor and weapon skins, cutscenes, NPCs, etc etc.

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I would personally love having tengu, and would be willing to make concessions to have it happen. Basically remove all the barrier that keep it from happening.Problem 1: having to remake all the old armors and outfits for a new race.Solution: restrict armor skins to cultural tengu only skins and any newly released canthan skins. Possible exceptions being lengendary armors. This can be achieve by the same mechanism as hellfire and radient armor works for the cultural skins.Problem 2: you would have record a back catalog of line for dungeons, raids, living story episodes.Solution: start all old content with a disclaimer that you are reliving events of the commander who is canonically a human male, so all old voice acting is covered by the male human voice. Tengu character are not the commander, they do not enter the story until xpac 3.Problem 3: tengu characters would need a personal story, hot, pof, and ls2 3 and 4.Solution: tengu character are not the commander, do not have access to these storyline. Their story starts at xpac 3. Because of these restrictions, they should either start at lvl 80 or mb at lvl 70, but by the time they leave dominion of the winds they are at lvl 80. Tengu should be a elite race, which means to access them, you need to have at least 1 character at lvl 80.

These is also this which is just compromising for the sake of just having something. However, honestly, some of what you're suggesting here would be more work as per your last suggestion they would need to put enough content into the Dominion of Winds alone to satisfy all of the things necessary to level to 80 in a PvE area. You're also suggesting having them create an entirely new storyline for the Tengu which is already a check in the things making adding them as a playable race more difficult, or time consuming.

Again...no one is saying that they don't want the Tengu as a playable race, that is nowhere near what is being explained here. It is just simply that we don't think ANet can or will devote the necessary amount of Dev time to doing something like that, especially considering how content starved people have been for years, at least the more veteran ones. ANet is, at least based on more recent posts by them, seeming to go more in the direction of satisfying more Veteran players in the game by adding actual content to the game, as well as improving rewards. They have already said that there is a new Fractal coming that will have a challenge mode, as well as this upcoming update where they are seemingly going to be adding a Weekly Rewards chest for completing the necessary Strikes. If they have any intention, which we don't know yet, of keeping with that trend going into the next expansion then I don't think that leaves much room for all of the necessary work required for adding a new playable race. Even in WoW expansions when they added a new race that was just a selling point not the selling point, because Blizzard has the amount of staff to compartmentalize in that way. ANet...kinda doesn't. They have even a smaller team now, at least supposedly, than the devs behind Warframe and Warframe updates are typically an all hands (or most) on deck endeavor, at least from what I have gleaned from how they talk about their work on their devstreams. This is all just conjecture on my part, certainly, but its all compiled with information we know and ANets stance on such things that have been said in the past. If they never intended to work on a new race for HoT, if they never intended to work on a new race for PoF then it doesn't seem very feasible that they will do that for Expansion 3.

Believe me, I am all for being wrong on this and if they prove me wrong then fantastic they will have exceeded however little expectations I have for this coming expansion. That is to say I don't have any, which isn't me saying anything negative about them as a company, I just don't like to put ideas into my own head when there is no possible way that I could know what is coming.

Don't build up your hopes or your expectations for something like this because if you do and then it turns out there is no new playable race coming with the expansion, Tengu or otherwise, then all the people who had their hopes and expectations artificially built up over nothing will do is just roll onto these forums, and reddit, and throw a fit.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Do not get it into your heads as an expectation for the Expansion that Tengu will be a playable race. Because if that doesn't happen then you're just going to show back up on these forums and throw a fit. We know nothing about this expansion aside from the fact that its like 90% confirmed to be in Cantha.

@particlepinata.9865 said:I think the expac will get a new race option, likely the Tengu. It would be an expac race, could be full 80 or not. If starting with level 1 (or lets say 40) , there could be a island (like gw 1 factions and nightfall had), with own levelingexperience/ps . It would need to have proper tutorials (especially cc and bosses etc) .Players can choose if they start a new charr of any of the now 6 races, or with a earlier leveled char. When choosing a tengu, you do have limited earlier story and armors, thats the consequense. Who doesnt like that, fine its not like the other 5 races are going away. It would not make sense that the new race would be able to play earlier story, which it wasnt part of anyway. Biggest point, an expac needs a unique selling point, this is the best choice in my opinion. And thats makes more things possible B)

@"VocalThought.9835" said:I don't see how people say adding a new race is too difficult when ANet had nothing but time to add new races or any other content. Since the launch of GW2, Devs knew exactly what players wanted with new content. We wanted new races, new classes, mounts, better underwater content, new weapons, better AI for pets, and to use created characters as heroes.

Since the release of HOT, I feel the Devs have done plenty to change the trajectory of what the game is capable of, by adding Elite Specializations and a Mastery System. They always said their initial game system was not capable of taking the game the direction they wanted to go. So, I guess all this time since HOT their time was spent on just POF and the Living World? I hope not.

I don't think ANet will give all players what they want, but I do think they're capable of giving in on several requests and new races are doable. All ANet has to do to satisfy most players is to create at least 2 more Elite Specializations, but if they want to attract new players they would have to:

• Create at least 2 more races.
• Add Season 1 of Living World
• Create better AI for pets
• Improve and expand underwater content.

The thing you have to understand about adding a new race if that these suggestions fall right into what I explained in an earlier post of mine. You want something so badly you come with any and all reasons as to the "why" and the "how" when those might not be the best way to approach doing something like this.

In the first instance here you're still running into the same hurdles that have been outlined before. They would need to devote dev time and resources into designing these areas, writing story for the intro missions as well as any further Personal Story missions that follow it. This would mean designing a similar amount of Personal Story choices when you are going through character creation, and even if you restrict that...all you're doing is compromising to such an extent that it will likely be a worse new character experience. Also no one is saying they

don't

want the Tengu as a playable race, @particlepinata.9865 , myself and others are implying that its just not feasible to the extent that it would need to be developed to actually do justice to even adding a new playable race to the game.

Now in the second instance, we already know they've had layoffs...which means if they did start developing anything before the months leading up to that then they likely lost a lot of the team that was working on it. We're also, still, talking about them needing to devote dev time and resources to developing new playable races specifically. With all that would be involved in doing that it isn't just a few people that do it, there is a team that works on that. The same team that likely develops and works on other things in the game. People to work on the story and dialogue, people to work on the cutscenes, people to work on the maps and environments, people to work on the NPCs in those environments, people to work on the racial specific armors and weapons, and among other things likely more technical. This would all be on top of having people working on story and dialogue for the broader expansion itself, maps and environments, new armor and weapon skins, cutscenes, NPCs, etc etc.

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I would personally love having tengu, and would be willing to make concessions to have it happen. Basically remove all the barrier that keep it from happening.Problem 1: having to remake all the old armors and outfits for a new race.Solution: restrict armor skins to cultural tengu only skins and any newly released canthan skins. Possible exceptions being lengendary armors. This can be achieve by the same mechanism as hellfire and radient armor works for the cultural skins.Problem 2: you would have record a back catalog of line for dungeons, raids, living story episodes.Solution: start all old content with a disclaimer that you are reliving events of the commander who is canonically a human male, so all old voice acting is covered by the male human voice. Tengu character are not the commander, they do not enter the story until xpac 3.Problem 3: tengu characters would need a personal story, hot, pof, and ls2 3 and 4.Solution: tengu character are not the commander, do not have access to these storyline. Their story starts at xpac 3. Because of these restrictions, they should either start at lvl 80 or mb at lvl 70, but by the time they leave dominion of the winds they are at lvl 80. Tengu should be a elite race, which means to access them, you need to have at least 1 character at lvl 80.

These is also this which is just compromising for the sake of just having something. However, honestly, some of what you're suggesting here would be more work as per your last suggestion they would need to put enough content into the Dominion of Winds

alone

to satisfy all of the things necessary to level to 80 in a PvE area. You're also suggesting having them create an entirely new storyline for the Tengu which is already a check in the things making adding them as a playable race more difficult, or time consuming.

Again...no one is saying that they don't want the Tengu as a playable race, that is nowhere near what is being explained here. It is just simply that we don't think ANet can or will devote the necessary amount of Dev time to doing something like that, especially considering how content starved people have been for

years

, at least the more veteran ones. ANet is, at least based on more recent posts by them, seeming to go more in the direction of satisfying more Veteran players in the game by adding actual content to the game, as well as improving rewards. They have already said that there is a new Fractal coming that will have a challenge mode, as well as this upcoming update where they are seemingly going to be adding a Weekly Rewards chest for completing the necessary Strikes. If they have any intention, which we don't know yet, of keeping with that trend going into the next expansion then I don't think that leaves much room for all of the necessary work required for adding a new playable race. Even in WoW expansions when they added a new race that was just

a

selling point not

the

selling point, because Blizzard has the amount of staff to compartmentalize in that way. ANet...kinda doesn't. They have even a smaller team now, at least supposedly, than the devs behind Warframe and Warframe updates are typically an all hands (or most) on deck endeavor, at least from what I have gleaned from how they talk about their work on their devstreams. This is all just conjecture on my part, certainly, but its all compiled with information we know and ANets stance on such things that have been said in the past. If they never intended to work on a new race for HoT, if they never intended to work on a new race for PoF then it doesn't seem very feasible that they will do that for Expansion 3.

Believe me, I am all for being wrong on this and if they prove me wrong then

fantastic

they will have exceeded however little expectations I have for this coming expansion. That is to say I don't have any, which isn't me saying anything negative about them as a company, I just don't like to put ideas into my own head when there is no possible way that I could know what is coming.

Don't build up your hopes or your expectations for something like this because if you do and then it turns out there is no new playable race coming with the expansion, Tengu or otherwise, then all the people who had their hopes and expectations artificially built up over nothing will do is just roll onto these forums, and reddit, and throw a fit.

I don't intend to throw a fit, and I don't suggest anyone else do so either. If the expansion doesn't offer enough for you and doesn't tickle your pickle so to speak, then move on to another game as we won't be wanted or welcomed here to vent. The community only is alright with people who 100% back every choice A-net makes, if you don't then the war begins. Its not worth it, so to all of you who want tengu know that he is probably right in that it wont happen because a-net really will cut corners as they do every expansion.

Expect it to be playable, expect it to have E-specs. Anything else is for now unless confirmed by the dev's off the table.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Do not get it into your heads as an expectation for the Expansion that Tengu will be a playable race. Because if that doesn't happen then you're just going to show back up on these forums and throw a fit. We know nothing about this expansion aside from the fact that its like 90% confirmed to be in Cantha.

@particlepinata.9865 said:I think the expac will get a new race option, likely the Tengu. It would be an expac race, could be full 80 or not. If starting with level 1 (or lets say 40) , there could be a island (like gw 1 factions and nightfall had), with own levelingexperience/ps . It would need to have proper tutorials (especially cc and bosses etc) .Players can choose if they start a new charr of any of the now 6 races, or with a earlier leveled char. When choosing a tengu, you do have limited earlier story and armors, thats the consequense. Who doesnt like that, fine its not like the other 5 races are going away. It would not make sense that the new race would be able to play earlier story, which it wasnt part of anyway. Biggest point, an expac needs a unique selling point, this is the best choice in my opinion. And thats makes more things possible B)

@"VocalThought.9835" said:I don't see how people say adding a new race is too difficult when ANet had nothing but time to add new races or any other content. Since the launch of GW2, Devs knew exactly what players wanted with new content. We wanted new races, new classes, mounts, better underwater content, new weapons, better AI for pets, and to use created characters as heroes.

Since the release of HOT, I feel the Devs have done plenty to change the trajectory of what the game is capable of, by adding Elite Specializations and a Mastery System. They always said their initial game system was not capable of taking the game the direction they wanted to go. So, I guess all this time since HOT their time was spent on just POF and the Living World? I hope not.

I don't think ANet will give all players what they want, but I do think they're capable of giving in on several requests and new races are doable. All ANet has to do to satisfy most players is to create at least 2 more Elite Specializations, but if they want to attract new players they would have to:

• Create at least 2 more races.
• Add Season 1 of Living World
• Create better AI for pets
• Improve and expand underwater content.

The thing you have to understand about adding a new race if that these suggestions fall right into what I explained in an earlier post of mine. You want something so badly you come with any and all reasons as to the "why" and the "how" when those might not be the best way to approach doing something like this.

In the first instance here you're still running into the same hurdles that have been outlined before. They would need to devote dev time and resources into designing these areas, writing story for the intro missions as well as any further Personal Story missions that follow it. This would mean designing a similar amount of Personal Story choices when you are going through character creation, and even if you restrict that...all you're doing is compromising to such an extent that it will likely be a worse new character experience. Also no one is saying they

don't

want the Tengu as a playable race, @particlepinata.9865 , myself and others are implying that its just not feasible to the extent that it would need to be developed to actually do justice to even adding a new playable race to the game.

Now in the second instance, we already know they've had layoffs...which means if they did start developing anything before the months leading up to that then they likely lost a lot of the team that was working on it. We're also, still, talking about them needing to devote dev time and resources to developing new playable races specifically. With all that would be involved in doing that it isn't just a few people that do it, there is a team that works on that. The same team that likely develops and works on other things in the game. People to work on the story and dialogue, people to work on the cutscenes, people to work on the maps and environments, people to work on the NPCs in those environments, people to work on the racial specific armors and weapons, and among other things likely more technical. This would all be on top of having people working on story and dialogue for the broader expansion itself, maps and environments, new armor and weapon skins, cutscenes, NPCs, etc etc.

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:I would personally love having tengu, and would be willing to make concessions to have it happen. Basically remove all the barrier that keep it from happening.Problem 1: having to remake all the old armors and outfits for a new race.Solution: restrict armor skins to cultural tengu only skins and any newly released canthan skins. Possible exceptions being lengendary armors. This can be achieve by the same mechanism as hellfire and radient armor works for the cultural skins.Problem 2: you would have record a back catalog of line for dungeons, raids, living story episodes.Solution: start all old content with a disclaimer that you are reliving events of the commander who is canonically a human male, so all old voice acting is covered by the male human voice. Tengu character are not the commander, they do not enter the story until xpac 3.Problem 3: tengu characters would need a personal story, hot, pof, and ls2 3 and 4.Solution: tengu character are not the commander, do not have access to these storyline. Their story starts at xpac 3. Because of these restrictions, they should either start at lvl 80 or mb at lvl 70, but by the time they leave dominion of the winds they are at lvl 80. Tengu should be a elite race, which means to access them, you need to have at least 1 character at lvl 80.

These is also this which is just compromising for the sake of just having something. However, honestly, some of what you're suggesting here would be more work as per your last suggestion they would need to put enough content into the Dominion of Winds

alone

to satisfy all of the things necessary to level to 80 in a PvE area. You're also suggesting having them create an entirely new storyline for the Tengu which is already a check in the things making adding them as a playable race more difficult, or time consuming.

Again...no one is saying that they don't want the Tengu as a playable race, that is nowhere near what is being explained here. It is just simply that we don't think ANet can or will devote the necessary amount of Dev time to doing something like that, especially considering how content starved people have been for

years

, at least the more veteran ones. ANet is, at least based on more recent posts by them, seeming to go more in the direction of satisfying more Veteran players in the game by adding actual content to the game, as well as improving rewards. They have already said that there is a new Fractal coming that will have a challenge mode, as well as this upcoming update where they are seemingly going to be adding a Weekly Rewards chest for completing the necessary Strikes. If they have any intention, which we don't know yet, of keeping with that trend going into the next expansion then I don't think that leaves much room for all of the necessary work required for adding a new playable race. Even in WoW expansions when they added a new race that was just

a

selling point not

the

selling point, because Blizzard has the amount of staff to compartmentalize in that way. ANet...kinda doesn't. They have even a smaller team now, at least supposedly, than the devs behind Warframe and Warframe updates are typically an all hands (or most) on deck endeavor, at least from what I have gleaned from how they talk about their work on their devstreams. This is all just conjecture on my part, certainly, but its all compiled with information we know and ANets stance on such things that have been said in the past. If they never intended to work on a new race for HoT, if they never intended to work on a new race for PoF then it doesn't seem very feasible that they will do that for Expansion 3.

Believe me, I am all for being wrong on this and if they prove me wrong then

fantastic

they will have exceeded however little expectations I have for this coming expansion. That is to say I don't have any, which isn't me saying anything negative about them as a company, I just don't like to put ideas into my own head when there is no possible way that I could know what is coming.

Don't build up your hopes or your expectations for something like this because if you do and then it turns out there is no new playable race coming with the expansion, Tengu or otherwise, then all the people who had their hopes and expectations artificially built up over nothing will do is just roll onto these forums, and reddit, and throw a fit.

I don't intend to throw a fit, and I don't suggest anyone else do so either. If the expansion doesn't offer enough for you and doesn't tickle your pickle so to speak, then move on to another game as we won't be wanted or welcomed here to vent. The community only is alright with people who 100% back every choice A-net makes, if you don't then the war begins. Its not worth it, so to all of you who want tengu know that he is probably right in that it wont happen because a-net really will cut corners as they do every expansion.

Expect it to be playable, expect it to have E-specs. Anything else is for now unless confirmed by the dev's off the table.

Thats a bit of an exaggeration. You can talk and discuss things, all I have been doing is trying to cement the idea that nothing is confirmed so as you're discussing things just keep that in mind. Also when you're discussing things in an open forum you should always be prepared for people to discuss things that are opposite your opinions.

Also I wouldn't call them not adding Tengu as a playable race as "cutting corners", its just them not doing something you want them to do. It has nothing to do with them not doing their best with the expansion. I wouldn't mind them adding new weapons to the game, like greataxes or halberds, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are "cutting corners" if they simply don't add those things.

[mercury ranique.2170]

I personality think that Tengu as a playable race would be the wrong direction. The first reason is cause a new playable race that doesn't use an existing playable model (Asura, Char and human/norn/silvary) is a lot of work as it requires redoing all armorsets.The second reason is that I want to be surprised. Both expansions brought us new things that where asked for but not expected for that expansion and not in that way. The way it was done however was very exiting. I am talking about flying (gliding) in HoT and mounts in PoF.

In my experience when they do things that we expect they are lousy done and when they surprise us it they make it very much thrilling.

So I would like to see the Tengu in a very surprising way and the special mechanic to the x-pac as well.

[Shena Fu.5792]

The Pact is a union of three Orders. There is no racial requirement or discrimination who could be a member or Commander of the Pact.

A Tengu zone, Dominion of Winds, is in Tarnished Coast bordering Caledon Forest and Kessex Hills. We even meet some of them, as friends and foes. So we know their models and attire have already been created and integrated.

Voice just reuse any of the other races.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"Shena Fu.5792" said:The Pact is a union of three Orders. There is no racial requirement or discrimination who could be a member or Commander of the Pact.

A Tengu zone, Dominion of Winds, is in Tarnished Coast bordering Caledon Forest and Kessex Hills. We even meet some of them, as friends and foes. So we know their models and attire have already been created and integrated.

Voice just reuse any of the other races.

It's not about whether or not the Pact discriminates, they don't, the "how" isn't exactly the issue with implementing them, its what that "how" entails to actually do it. Writing up a story with dialogue and a plot that has a few variants like all of the other races do, building environments and maps and Heart missions and plenty of other things to fill content for them from levels 1 to 80. That isn't a small or simple thing.

Yeah the Dominion of Winds is there, doesn't mean there is an actual zone fully rendered and designed there. Its just a blank space on the map and its probably a blank environment as well. Like was said above, they would have to build the environment if they haven't done so, and I don't think anyone has seen anything, even with attempts to break out of map boundaries, that suggests the area is actually built.

As for voicing them thats just a shortcut...while it could technically work I feel like if they did that then people would undoubtedly not be okay with the fact that the Tengu PC voice is just the same as say...Humans or Norn or Charr.

Its a much more complicated endeavor if it is to be done well and be done right than I think a lot of people are willing to acknowledge or admit. You can devise all the ways you could theoretically implement them all you want, the fact remains that the Devs would need to put in the work for it and it isn't a one person job, not even two.

[Trise.2865]

Canthan Tengu (assuming any survived the purge) are xenophobic, even more so than the Canthan Humans. There is no chance in hell of them joining our fight. They would rather die.

[Healix.5819]

The only way that Tengu will be playable is as a fixed story element. Adding them as a playable race is simply too unrealistic, as they wouldn't be able justify the high cost since Tengu would only end up like the Charr. If they wanted a new race just for the selling point, there are much cheaper options, like a new race from the mists that would effectively be modified humans with morphed voices.

[VocalThought.9835]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Do not get it into your heads as an expectation for the Expansion that Tengu will be a playable race. Because if that doesn't happen then you're just going to show back up on these forums and throw a fit. We know nothing about this expansion aside from the fact that its like 90% confirmed to be in Cantha.

@particlepinata.9865 said:I think the expac will get a new race option, likely the Tengu. It would be an expac race, could be full 80 or not. If starting with level 1 (or lets say 40) , there could be a island (like gw 1 factions and nightfall had), with own levelingexperience/ps . It would need to have proper tutorials (especially cc and bosses etc) .Players can choose if they start a new charr of any of the now 6 races, or with a earlier leveled char. When choosing a tengu, you do have limited earlier story and armors, thats the consequense. Who doesnt like that, fine its not like the other 5 races are going away. It would not make sense that the new race would be able to play earlier story, which it wasnt part of anyway. Biggest point, an expac needs a unique selling point, this is the best choice in my opinion. And thats makes more things possible B)

@"VocalThought.9835" said:I don't see how people say adding a new race is too difficult when ANet had nothing but time to add new races or any other content. Since the launch of GW2, Devs knew exactly what players wanted with new content. We wanted new races, new classes, mounts, better underwater content, new weapons, better AI for pets, and to use created characters as heroes.

Since the release of HOT, I feel the Devs have done plenty to change the trajectory of what the game is capable of, by adding Elite Specializations and a Mastery System. They always said their initial game system was not capable of taking the game the direction they wanted to go. So, I guess all this time since HOT their time was spent on just POF and the Living World? I hope not.

I don't think ANet will give all players what they want, but I do think they're capable of giving in on several requests and new races are doable. All ANet has to do to satisfy most players is to create at least 2 more Elite Specializations, but if they want to attract new players they would have to:

• Create at least 2 more races.
• Add Season 1 of Living World
• Create better AI for pets
• Improve and expand underwater content.

The thing you have to understand about adding a new race if that these suggestions fall right into what I explained in an earlier post of mine. You want something so badly you come with any and all reasons as to the "why" and the "how" when those might not be the best way to approach doing something like this.

In the first instance here you're still running into the same hurdles that have been outlined before. They would need to devote dev time and resources into designing these areas, writing story for the intro missions as well as any further Personal Story missions that follow it. This would mean designing a similar amount of Personal Story choices when you are going through character creation, and even if you restrict that...all you're doing is compromising to such an extent that it will likely be a worse new character experience. Also no one is saying they

don't

want the Tengu as a playable race, @particlepinata.9865 , myself and others are implying that its just not feasible to the extent that it would need to be developed to actually do justice to even adding a new playable race to the game.

Now in the second instance, we already know they've had layoffs...which means if they did start developing anything before the months leading up to that then they likely lost a lot of the team that was working on it. We're also, still, talking about them needing to devote dev time and resources to developing new playable races specifically. With all that would be involved in doing that it isn't just a few people that do it, there is a team that works on that. The same team that likely develops and works on other things in the game. People to work on the story and dialogue, people to work on the cutscenes, people to work on the maps and environments, people to work on the NPCs in those environments, people to work on the racial specific armors and weapons, and among other things likely more technical. This would all be on top of having people working on story and dialogue for the broader expansion itself, maps and environments, new armor and weapon skins, cutscenes, NPCs, etc etc.

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I would personally love having tengu, and would be willing to make concessions to have it happen. Basically remove all the barrier that keep it from happening.Problem 1: having to remake all the old armors and outfits for a new race.Solution: restrict armor skins to cultural tengu only skins and any newly released canthan skins. Possible exceptions being lengendary armors. This can be achieve by the same mechanism as hellfire and radient armor works for the cultural skins.Problem 2: you would have record a back catalog of line for dungeons, raids, living story episodes.Solution: start all old content with a disclaimer that you are reliving events of the commander who is canonically a human male, so all old voice acting is covered by the male human voice. Tengu character are not the commander, they do not enter the story until xpac 3.Problem 3: tengu characters would need a personal story, hot, pof, and ls2 3 and 4.Solution: tengu character are not the commander, do not have access to these storyline. Their story starts at xpac 3. Because of these restrictions, they should either start at lvl 80 or mb at lvl 70, but by the time they leave dominion of the winds they are at lvl 80. Tengu should be a elite race, which means to access them, you need to have at least 1 character at lvl 80.

These is also this which is just compromising for the sake of just having something. However, honestly, some of what you're suggesting here would be more work as per your last suggestion they would need to put enough content into the Dominion of Winds

alone

to satisfy all of the things necessary to level to 80 in a PvE area. You're also suggesting having them create an entirely new storyline for the Tengu which is already a check in the things making adding them as a playable race more difficult, or time consuming.

Again...no one is saying that they don't want the Tengu as a playable race, that is nowhere near what is being explained here. It is just simply that we don't think ANet can or will devote the necessary amount of Dev time to doing something like that, especially considering how content starved people have been for

years

, at least the more veteran ones. ANet is, at least based on more recent posts by them, seeming to go more in the direction of satisfying more Veteran players in the game by adding actual content to the game, as well as improving rewards. They have already said that there is a new Fractal coming that will have a challenge mode, as well as this upcoming update where they are seemingly going to be adding a Weekly Rewards chest for completing the necessary Strikes. If they have any intention, which we don't know yet, of keeping with that trend going into the next expansion then I don't think that leaves much room for all of the necessary work required for adding a new playable race. Even in WoW expansions when they added a new race that was just

a

selling point not

the

selling point, because Blizzard has the amount of staff to compartmentalize in that way. ANet...kinda doesn't. They have even a smaller team now, at least supposedly, than the devs behind Warframe and Warframe updates are typically an all hands (or most) on deck endeavor, at least from what I have gleaned from how they talk about their work on their devstreams. This is all just conjecture on my part, certainly, but its all compiled with information we know and ANets stance on such things that have been said in the past. If they never intended to work on a new race for HoT, if they never intended to work on a new race for PoF then it doesn't seem very feasible that they will do that for Expansion 3.

Believe me, I am all for being wrong on this and if they prove me wrong then

fantastic

they will have exceeded however little expectations I have for this coming expansion. That is to say I don't have any, which isn't me saying anything negative about them as a company, I just don't like to put ideas into my own head when there is no possible way that I could know what is coming.

Don't build up your hopes or your expectations for something like this because if you do and then it turns out there is no new playable race coming with the expansion, Tengu or otherwise, then all the people who had their hopes and expectations artificially built up over nothing will do is just roll onto these forums, and reddit, and throw a fit.

I can't help but to reply. I don't care what layoffs been had. These people work 8 plus hours a day to do a job that puts food on their table doing some they love and are experts at. I can see if I was writing code, trying to come up with a story, and create character models, but we're not talking about me or you doing this. We're talking about Trained, Educated, and Professional, Artist, Writers, and Game Designers. This game has been out since when...? How many Marvel Movies have we seen? How many Walking Dead Episodes have we watched? How many lug nuts have Mechanics turned? How many homework assignments have teachers graded? Their job might be hard work, but it's easier for them then for us. I'm sure it doesn't take 10 years to create what we're looking for.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@VocalThought.9835 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Do not get it into your heads as an expectation for the Expansion that Tengu will be a playable race. Because if that doesn't happen then you're just going to show back up on these forums and throw a fit. We know nothing about this expansion aside from the fact that its like 90% confirmed to be in Cantha.

@particlepinata.9865 said:I think the expac will get a new race option, likely the Tengu. It would be an expac race, could be full 80 or not. If starting with level 1 (or lets say 40) , there could be a island (like gw 1 factions and nightfall had), with own levelingexperience/ps . It would need to have proper tutorials (especially cc and bosses etc) .Players can choose if they start a new charr of any of the now 6 races, or with a earlier leveled char. When choosing a tengu, you do have limited earlier story and armors, thats the consequense. Who doesnt like that, fine its not like the other 5 races are going away. It would not make sense that the new race would be able to play earlier story, which it wasnt part of anyway. Biggest point, an expac needs a unique selling point, this is the best choice in my opinion. And thats makes more things possible B)

@VocalThought.9835 said:I don't see how people say adding a new race is too difficult when ANet had nothing but time to add new races or any other content. Since the launch of GW2, Devs knew exactly what players wanted with new content. We wanted new races, new classes, mounts, better underwater content, new weapons, better AI for pets, and to use created characters as heroes.

Since the release of HOT, I feel the Devs have done plenty to change the trajectory of what the game is capable of, by adding Elite Specializations and a Mastery System. They always said their initial game system was not capable of taking the game the direction they wanted to go. So, I guess all this time since HOT their time was spent on just POF and the Living World? I hope not.

I don't think ANet will give all players what they want, but I do think they're capable of giving in on several requests and new races are doable. All ANet has to do to satisfy most players is to create at least 2 more Elite Specializations, but if they want to attract new players they would have to:

• Create at least 2 more races.
• Add Season 1 of Living World
• Create better AI for pets
• Improve and expand underwater content.

The thing you have to understand about adding a new race if that these suggestions fall right into what I explained in an earlier post of mine. You want something so badly you come with any and all reasons as to the "why" and the "how" when those might not be the best way to approach doing something like this.

In the first instance here you're still running into the same hurdles that have been outlined before. They would need to devote dev time and resources into designing these areas, writing story for the intro missions as well as any further Personal Story missions that follow it. This would mean designing a similar amount of Personal Story choices when you are going through character creation, and even if you restrict that...all you're doing is compromising to such an extent that it will likely be a worse new character experience. Also no one is saying they

don't

want the Tengu as a playable race, @particlepinata.9865 , myself and others are implying that its just not feasible to the extent that it would need to be developed to actually do justice to even adding a new playable race to the game.

Now in the second instance, we already know they've had layoffs...which means if they did start developing anything before the months leading up to that then they likely lost a lot of the team that was working on it. We're also, still, talking about them needing to devote dev time and resources to developing new playable races specifically. With all that would be involved in doing that it isn't just a few people that do it, there is a team that works on that. The same team that likely develops and works on other things in the game. People to work on the story and dialogue, people to work on the cutscenes, people to work on the maps and environments, people to work on the NPCs in those environments, people to work on the racial specific armors and weapons, and among other things likely more technical. This would all be on top of having people working on story and dialogue for the broader expansion itself, maps and environments, new armor and weapon skins, cutscenes, NPCs, etc etc.

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I would personally love having tengu, and would be willing to make concessions to have it happen. Basically remove all the barrier that keep it from happening.Problem 1: having to remake all the old armors and outfits for a new race.Solution: restrict armor skins to cultural tengu only skins and any newly released canthan skins. Possible exceptions being lengendary armors. This can be achieve by the same mechanism as hellfire and radient armor works for the cultural skins.Problem 2: you would have record a back catalog of line for dungeons, raids, living story episodes.Solution: start all old content with a disclaimer that you are reliving events of the commander who is canonically a human male, so all old voice acting is covered by the male human voice. Tengu character are not the commander, they do not enter the story until xpac 3.Problem 3: tengu characters would need a personal story, hot, pof, and ls2 3 and 4.Solution: tengu character are not the commander, do not have access to these storyline. Their story starts at xpac 3. Because of these restrictions, they should either start at lvl 80 or mb at lvl 70, but by the time they leave dominion of the winds they are at lvl 80. Tengu should be a elite race, which means to access them, you need to have at least 1 character at lvl 80.

These is also this which is just compromising for the sake of just having something. However, honestly, some of what you're suggesting here would be more work as per your last suggestion they would need to put enough content into the Dominion of Winds

alone

to satisfy all of the things necessary to level to 80 in a PvE area. You're also suggesting having them create an entirely new storyline for the Tengu which is already a check in the things making adding them as a playable race more difficult, or time consuming.

Again...no one is saying that they don't want the Tengu as a playable race, that is nowhere near what is being explained here. It is just simply that we don't think ANet can or will devote the necessary amount of Dev time to doing something like that, especially considering how content starved people have been for

years

, at least the more veteran ones. ANet is, at least based on more recent posts by them, seeming to go more in the direction of satisfying more Veteran players in the game by adding actual content to the game, as well as improving rewards. They have already said that there is a new Fractal coming that will have a challenge mode, as well as this upcoming update where they are seemingly going to be adding a Weekly Rewards chest for completing the necessary Strikes. If they have any intention, which we don't know yet, of keeping with that trend going into the next expansion then I don't think that leaves much room for all of the necessary work required for adding a new playable race. Even in WoW expansions when they added a new race that was just

a

selling point not

the

selling point, because Blizzard has the amount of staff to compartmentalize in that way. ANet...kinda doesn't. They have even a smaller team now, at least supposedly, than the devs behind Warframe and Warframe updates are typically an all hands (or most) on deck endeavor, at least from what I have gleaned from how they talk about their work on their devstreams. This is all just conjecture on my part, certainly, but its all compiled with information we know and ANets stance on such things that have been said in the past. If they never intended to work on a new race for HoT, if they never intended to work on a new race for PoF then it doesn't seem very feasible that they will do that for Expansion 3.

Believe me, I am all for being wrong on this and if they prove me wrong then

fantastic

they will have exceeded however little expectations I have for this coming expansion. That is to say I don't have any, which isn't me saying anything negative about them as a company, I just don't like to put ideas into my own head when there is no possible way that I could know what is coming.

Don't build up your hopes or your expectations for something like this because if you do and then it turns out there is no new playable race coming with the expansion, Tengu or otherwise, then all the people who had their hopes and expectations artificially built up over nothing will do is just roll onto these forums, and reddit, and throw a fit.

I can't help but to reply. I don't care what layoffs been had. These people work 8 plus hours a day to do a job that puts food on their table doing some they love and are experts at. I can see if I was writing code, trying to come up with a story, and create character models, but we're not talking about me or you doing this. We're talking about Trained, Educated, and Professional, Artist, Writers, and Game Designers. This game has been out since when...? How many Marvel Movies have we seen? How many Walking Dead Episodes have we watched? How many lug nuts have Mechanics turned? How many homework assignments have teachers graded? Their job might be hard work, but it's easier for them then for us. I'm sure it doesn't take 10 years to create what we're looking for.

I don't think you quite understand the work that goes into those things, though, and how much time it takes. Yes they are professionals in their fields, yes they work 8 hour days, yes there have been a lot of years between when this game released and now...however that doesn't mean they have actually been working on adding a new race to the game in that time.

Again, I don't think you realize the process that actually goes into these things. Avengers Infinity War and Avengers Endgame were announced to be released on their respective dates (2018 and 2019) all the way back in October 2014, and planning for them had likely already been underway prior to then. The screenwriters were enlisted in 2015. Principal photography, that is the actual filming, started in 2017 almost two years after the screenwriters were brought on board. Infinity War released in 2018 and Endgame released in 2019. That gave post production (all the CGI and such), which is not a small team, about a year to get each finished.

You have to consider all of the moving parts to things like this, even with video games. Especially with video games. Take Doom Eternal, which is releasing in a few days. It was announced back in June 2018 and the first trailer was shown a month later with it now releasing in March 2020; two years later. They had likely already started working on it shortly after Doom 2016, especially after it did so well, which means it has likely been in production for a total of four years. And thats 200+ employees (last reported in 2012) at id Software working on a singleplayer game, which I guarantee you they have a lot more employees now.

The kind of development work and time that would be needed for adding all of the necessary components for a new playable race just doesn't seem like something ANet has available right now, with knowing they have less employees now than they used to and they are working on an MMORPG which has a lot more moving parts than most other games. Adding a new race, with its own personal story, armor sets and weapons and character voices and NPCs and maps includes needing people like writers (not just one), character designers(not just one) to work on NPCs and mobs, people who work on cinematics/cutscenes, likely additional sound effects, likely additional endeavors into coding things, people to design the Heart missions for these potential new zones, people to design the leveling content from 1 to 80 who probably work with the writers and others. All of these moving parts coordinating with one another.

I'm not doubting that ANet has people who are educated and trained and are professional, but you need to be realistic as to the actual process that goes into this stuff. Its like if a patch rolls out and there a bugs in it. Thats just...programming, anyone who does programming can tell you that code just...does weird stuff and thats why hotfixes and patches exist because you can only test so far in an internal environment before shipping it to the live environment. I have friends who are programmers, who have gone to school for it and who are currently going to school for it and I hear stories all the time from them telling me about this bit of code that just decided to not work, even though it did before, and they have no idea why. Or a bit of code that works and they don't know why so they try to figure it out.

All I'm asking is that people temper their expectations, to be realistic and to not get ideas stuck in their heads about things that are not confirmed or might not be feasible. If ANet has been working on a new race since PoF launched (3 years ago) and it turns out the expansion will be coming with a new playable race then great, I will be all for that. I am in no way against it...but I'm not going to delude myself into thinking its an assured thing nor that its required.

[Howluffu.7259]

Give me the burbs

[Thornwolf.9721]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@VocalThought.9835 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Do not get it into your heads as an expectation for the Expansion that Tengu will be a playable race. Because if that doesn't happen then you're just going to show back up on these forums and throw a fit. We know nothing about this expansion aside from the fact that its like 90% confirmed to be in Cantha.

@particlepinata.9865 said:I think the expac will get a new race option, likely the Tengu. It would be an expac race, could be full 80 or not. If starting with level 1 (or lets say 40) , there could be a island (like gw 1 factions and nightfall had), with own levelingexperience/ps . It would need to have proper tutorials (especially cc and bosses etc) .Players can choose if they start a new charr of any of the now 6 races, or with a earlier leveled char. When choosing a tengu, you do have limited earlier story and armors, thats the consequense. Who doesnt like that, fine its not like the other 5 races are going away. It would not make sense that the new race would be able to play earlier story, which it wasnt part of anyway. Biggest point, an expac needs a unique selling point, this is the best choice in my opinion. And thats makes more things possible B)

@VocalThought.9835 said:I don't see how people say adding a new race is too difficult when ANet had nothing but time to add new races or any other content. Since the launch of GW2, Devs knew exactly what players wanted with new content. We wanted new races, new classes, mounts, better underwater content, new weapons, better AI for pets, and to use created characters as heroes.

Since the release of HOT, I feel the Devs have done plenty to change the trajectory of what the game is capable of, by adding Elite Specializations and a Mastery System. They always said their initial game system was not capable of taking the game the direction they wanted to go. So, I guess all this time since HOT their time was spent on just POF and the Living World? I hope not.

I don't think ANet will give all players what they want, but I do think they're capable of giving in on several requests and new races are doable. All ANet has to do to satisfy most players is to create at least 2 more Elite Specializations, but if they want to attract new players they would have to:

• Create at least 2 more races.
• Add Season 1 of Living World
• Create better AI for pets
• Improve and expand underwater content.

The thing you have to understand about adding a new race if that these suggestions fall right into what I explained in an earlier post of mine. You want something so badly you come with any and all reasons as to the "why" and the "how" when those might not be the best way to approach doing something like this.

In the first instance here you're still running into the same hurdles that have been outlined before. They would need to devote dev time and resources into designing these areas, writing story for the intro missions as well as any further Personal Story missions that follow it. This would mean designing a similar amount of Personal Story choices when you are going through character creation, and even if you restrict that...all you're doing is compromising to such an extent that it will likely be a worse new character experience. Also no one is saying they

don't

want the Tengu as a playable race, @particlepinata.9865 , myself and others are implying that its just not feasible to the extent that it would need to be developed to actually do justice to even adding a new playable race to the game.

Now in the second instance, we already know they've had layoffs...which means if they did start developing anything before the months leading up to that then they likely lost a lot of the team that was working on it. We're also, still, talking about them needing to devote dev time and resources to developing new playable races specifically. With all that would be involved in doing that it isn't just a few people that do it, there is a team that works on that. The same team that likely develops and works on other things in the game. People to work on the story and dialogue, people to work on the cutscenes, people to work on the maps and environments, people to work on the NPCs in those environments, people to work on the racial specific armors and weapons, and among other things likely more technical. This would all be on top of having people working on story and dialogue for the broader expansion itself, maps and environments, new armor and weapon skins, cutscenes, NPCs, etc etc.

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:I would personally love having tengu, and would be willing to make concessions to have it happen. Basically remove all the barrier that keep it from happening.Problem 1: having to remake all the old armors and outfits for a new race.Solution: restrict armor skins to cultural tengu only skins and any newly released canthan skins. Possible exceptions being lengendary armors. This can be achieve by the same mechanism as hellfire and radient armor works for the cultural skins.Problem 2: you would have record a back catalog of line for dungeons, raids, living story episodes.Solution: start all old content with a disclaimer that you are reliving events of the commander who is canonically a human male, so all old voice acting is covered by the male human voice. Tengu character are not the commander, they do not enter the story until xpac 3.Problem 3: tengu characters would need a personal story, hot, pof, and ls2 3 and 4.Solution: tengu character are not the commander, do not have access to these storyline. Their story starts at xpac 3. Because of these restrictions, they should either start at lvl 80 or mb at lvl 70, but by the time they leave dominion of the winds they are at lvl 80. Tengu should be a elite race, which means to access them, you need to have at least 1 character at lvl 80.

These is also this which is just compromising for the sake of just having something. However, honestly, some of what you're suggesting here would be more work as per your last suggestion they would need to put enough content into the Dominion of Winds

alone

to satisfy all of the things necessary to level to 80 in a PvE area. You're also suggesting having them create an entirely new storyline for the Tengu which is already a check in the things making adding them as a playable race more difficult, or time consuming.

Again...no one is saying that they don't want the Tengu as a playable race, that is nowhere near what is being explained here. It is just simply that we don't think ANet can or will devote the necessary amount of Dev time to doing something like that, especially considering how content starved people have been for

years

, at least the more veteran ones. ANet is, at least based on more recent posts by them, seeming to go more in the direction of satisfying more Veteran players in the game by adding actual content to the game, as well as improving rewards. They have already said that there is a new Fractal coming that will have a challenge mode, as well as this upcoming update where they are seemingly going to be adding a Weekly Rewards chest for completing the necessary Strikes. If they have any intention, which we don't know yet, of keeping with that trend going into the next expansion then I don't think that leaves much room for all of the necessary work required for adding a new playable race. Even in WoW expansions when they added a new race that was just

a

selling point not

the

selling point, because Blizzard has the amount of staff to compartmentalize in that way. ANet...kinda doesn't. They have even a smaller team now, at least supposedly, than the devs behind Warframe and Warframe updates are typically an all hands (or most) on deck endeavor, at least from what I have gleaned from how they talk about their work on their devstreams. This is all just conjecture on my part, certainly, but its all compiled with information we know and ANets stance on such things that have been said in the past. If they never intended to work on a new race for HoT, if they never intended to work on a new race for PoF then it doesn't seem very feasible that they will do that for Expansion 3.

Believe me, I am all for being wrong on this and if they prove me wrong then

fantastic

they will have exceeded however little expectations I have for this coming expansion. That is to say I don't have any, which isn't me saying anything negative about them as a company, I just don't like to put ideas into my own head when there is no possible way that I could know what is coming.

Don't build up your hopes or your expectations for something like this because if you do and then it turns out there is no new playable race coming with the expansion, Tengu or otherwise, then all the people who had their hopes and expectations artificially built up over nothing will do is just roll onto these forums, and reddit, and throw a fit.

I can't help but to reply. I don't care what layoffs been had. These people work 8 plus hours a day to do a job that puts food on their table doing some they love and are experts at. I can see if I was writing code, trying to come up with a story, and create character models, but we're not talking about me or you doing this. We're talking about Trained, Educated, and Professional, Artist, Writers, and Game Designers. This game has been out since when...? How many Marvel Movies have we seen? How many Walking Dead Episodes have we watched? How many lug nuts have Mechanics turned? How many homework assignments have teachers graded? Their job might be hard work, but it's easier for them then for us. I'm sure it doesn't take 10 years to create what we're looking for.

I don't think you quite understand the work that goes into those things, though, and how much time it takes. Yes they are professionals in their fields, yes they work 8 hour days, yes there have been a lot of years between when this game released and now...however that doesn't mean they have actually been working on adding a new race to the game in that time.

Again, I don't think you realize the process that actually goes into these things. Avengers Infinity War and Avengers Endgame were announced to be released on their respective dates (2018 and 2019) all the way back in October 2014, and planning for them had likely already been underway prior to then. The screenwriters were enlisted in 2015. Principal photography, that is the actual filming, started in 2017 almost two years after the screenwriters were brought on board. Infinity War released in 2018 and Endgame released in 2019. That gave post production (all the CGI and such), which is

not

a small team, about a year to get each finished.

You have to consider all of the moving parts to things like this, even with video games. Especially with video games. Take Doom Eternal, which is releasing in a few days. It was announced back in June 2018 and the first trailer was shown a month later with it now releasing in March 2020;

two years

later. They had likely already started working on it shortly after Doom 2016, especially after it did so well, which means it has likely been in production for a total of four years. And thats 200+ employees (last reported in 2012) at id Software working on a singleplayer game, which I guarantee you they have a lot more employees now.

The kind of development work and time that would be needed for adding all of the necessary components for a new playable race just doesn't seem like something ANet has available right now, with knowing they have less employees now than they used to and they are working on an MMORPG which has a lot more moving parts than most other games. Adding a new race, with its own personal story, armor sets and weapons and character voices and NPCs and maps includes needing people like writers (not just one), character designers(not just one) to work on NPCs and mobs, people who work on cinematics/cutscenes, likely additional sound effects, likely additional endeavors into coding things, people to design the Heart missions for these potential new zones, people to design the leveling content from 1 to 80 who probably work

with

the writers and others. All of these moving parts coordinating with one another.

I'm not doubting that ANet has people who are educated and trained and are professional, but you need to be realistic as to the actual process that goes into this stuff. Its like if a patch rolls out and there a bugs in it. Thats just...programming, anyone who does programming can tell you that code just...does weird stuff and thats why hotfixes and patches exist because you can only test so far in an internal environment before shipping it to the live environment. I have friends who are programmers, who have gone to school for it and who are currently going to school for it and I hear stories all the time from them telling me about this bit of code that just decided to not work, even though it did before, and they have no idea why. Or a bit of code that works and they

don't

know why so they try to figure it out.

All I'm asking is that people temper their expectations, to be realistic and to not get ideas stuck in their heads about things that are not confirmed or might not be feasible. If ANet has been working on a new race since PoF launched (3 years ago) and it turns out the expansion will be coming with a new playable race then great, I will be all for that. I am in no way against it...but I'm not going to delude myself into thinking its an assured thing nor that its required.

Just to throw this out there, a good chunk if not the majority of those people who were laid off had been hands off with guild wars for a long time. It was mostly the other projects and so on that got the trimming; Honestly we've never seen a-net full hands on deck with this game even during season 1 according to the information they've always been focused on other ventures. Everyone is being pushed by NCsoft to work on the game now and bring the full might of their creativity to bear and im pretty sure the expansion is 2 years out, as I doubt they had been working on it prior to the announcement for very long.

I also believe the saga was one of those projects, an expansion which was close to being done if not at least finished in the idea portion of it and they are using that to bridge the gap until they have an expansion ready. Realistically this expansion has to be good, IT HAS to succeed because if it is luke-warm like PoF or a cluster like HoT this game is done and there will be no salvaging it. I believe this will be what Legion was to WoW for guild wars 2, A huge comprehensive expansion with things WE as a community have asked for throughout the years. It is basically the "Incase of emergency, break glass" and Im not sure what to expect because I HOPE they will put everything they have and push themselves to make this expansion the best they can make. Because if not I fear that we will get another PoF and will have a mess, PoF was a terrible expansion and felt rushed and empty. But given how the saga is going and the features the maps are having and WHAT they are experimenting on Im sure they are testing the waters.

The only thing I wish is we would get a set of E-specs in the saga, and then get another set in the expansion since I believe the Expansion is SUPER far away as of now and will be something we wont hear much about until much later down the road. (Tired of what we have currently...)

[Enigmatic.2659]

Negative comments will be negative comments, Or disbelievers trying to get everyone else to believe something won't happen just because they don't believe it themselves. Always a group gotta do that regardless of the game. Especially since we're in 2020...That said, whatever.

I agree with you Thornwolf, and those else who also wish for Tengu. If they ever plan on making them playable, a canthan expansion would be a good time to do it. I agree with why you've brought up this wish. It'd be a dream for me as well, regardless of when, if this ever happened. They are a race I've always been fascinated with, through GW1 of course.

However, much as I do hope we get to play Tengu, regardless of those saying it will never happen and not to get hopes up and whatever else (I honestly just skimmed through, all looked the same after awhile really anyway),

Just hoping to go into the Dominion of Winds and learn more about them at the least. Like the Largos, I want to know more even if never (sadly) actually playable.

[Weindrasi.3805]

@"Enigmatic.2659" said:Negative comments will be negative comments, Or disbelievers trying to get everyone else to believe something won't happen just because they don't believe it themselves. Always a group gotta do that regardless of the game. Especially since we're in 2020...That said, whatever.

I agree with you Thornwolf, and those else who also wish for Tengu. If they ever plan on making them playable, a canthan expansion would be a good time to do it. I agree with why you've brought up this wish. It'd be a dream for me as well, regardless of when, if this ever happened. They are a race I've always been fascinated with, through GW1 of course.

However, much as I do hope we get to play Tengu, regardless of those saying it will never happen and not to get hopes up and whatever else (I honestly just skimmed through, all looked the same after awhile really anyway),

Just hoping to go into the Dominion of Winds and learn more about them at the least. Like the Largos, I want to know more even if never (sadly) actually playable.

Yeah, the naysayers scream to the heavens about why X or Y is "impossible" and "will never happen," then they go oddly silent when X and Y DO happen.Personal examples:

1. Way back when GW2 launched, I voiced a desire for more charr face, hair, and horn options. I was told "No, that's impossible, it's too hard to make cat faces unique, it will never happen." Check the character creator now, you unimaginative poops.
2. People who swore up and down that GW2 would NOT get an expansion. Then HOT came out.
3. People who swore up and down that GW2 would NOT get a second expansion. Then POF.
4. People who said we would never get more Charr and Norn lore, because it's all about humans, and even if we did get more Charr and Norn lore it would be lame and limited. Then Icebrood Saga came out.
5. People who promised that A-net hates PVP and we'll NEVER get new PvP modes.
6. People who swore up and down that GW2 would ABSOLUTELY NOT get a third expansion and we will NOT EVER GO TO CANTHA. Aaaand, now we're getting a third expansion, and it's Cantha.

Like seriously, eff the people who do this. They get proven wrong at every turn, but then they just find the next thing to vomit cynicism on. Sheesh.

[Enigmatic.2659]

@Weindrasi.3805 said:

@"Enigmatic.2659" said:Negative comments will be negative comments, Or disbelievers trying to get everyone else to believe something won't happen just because they don't believe it themselves. Always a group gotta do that regardless of the game. Especially since we're in 2020...That said, whatever.

I agree with you Thornwolf, and those else who also wish for Tengu. If they ever plan on making them playable, a canthan expansion would be a good time to do it. I agree with why you've brought up this wish. It'd be a dream for me as well, regardless of when, if this ever happened. They are a race I've always been fascinated with, through GW1 of course.

However, much as I do hope we get to play Tengu, regardless of those saying it will never happen and not to get hopes up and whatever else (I honestly just skimmed through, all looked the same after awhile really anyway),

Just hoping to go into the Dominion of Winds and learn more about them at the least. Like the Largos, I want to know more even if never (sadly) actually playable.

Yeah, the naysayers scream to the heavens about why X or Y is "impossible" and "will never happen," then they go oddly silent when X and Y DO happen.Personal examples:

1. Way back when GW2 launched, I voiced a desire for more charr face, hair, and horn options. I was told "No, that's impossible, it's too hard to make cat faces unique, it will never happen." Check the character creator now, you unimaginative poops.
2. People who swore up and down that GW2 would NOT get an expansion. Then HOT came out.
3. People who swore up and down that GW2 would NOT get a second expansion. Then POF.
4. People who said we would never get more Charr and Norn lore, because it's all about humans, and even if we did get more Charr and Norn lore it would be lame and limited. Then Icebrood Saga came out.
5. People who promised that A-net hates PVP and we'll NEVER get new PvP modes.
6. People who swore up and down that GW2 would ABSOLUTELY NOT get a third expansion and we will NOT EVER GO TO CANTHA. Aaaand, now we're getting a third expansion, and it's Cantha.

Like seriously, eff the people who do this. They get proven wrong at every turn, but then they just find the next thing to vomit cynicism on. Sheesh.

RIGHT?? Well said! And honestly needed to be said! claps THANK YOU.Also it's really good to not just be attacked for once, so thank you for commenting.