Mesmer 1 dodge. Ty anet!

[ArlAlt.1630]

@Sodeni.6041 said:Totally agree, the one dodge is just bad. It doesn't justify the mirage's mechanics at all. The devs should come up with a different drawback for mirage instead. Right now, a core mesmer is better in PvP than mirage imo.

Core Mesmer lacks the sustained damage to do anything really. Outside of a few key combos it just doesn't have any damage, thanks to plethora of nerfs to core traitlines in an attempt to nerf Mirage, which they nerfed further anyway.

P.S. The utilities are utter crap.

[Fueki.4753]

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:Totally agree, the one dodge is just bad. It doesn't justify the mirage's mechanics at all. The devs should come up with a different drawback for mirage instead. Right now, a core mesmer is better in PvP than mirage imo.

Core Mesmer lacks the sustained damage to do anything really.It's not like Core Condi Mesmers need sustained damage, when they can kill an average player within 10 second.

[ArlAlt.1630]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:Totally agree, the one dodge is just bad. It doesn't justify the mirage's mechanics at all. The devs should come up with a different drawback for mirage instead. Right now, a core mesmer is better in PvP than mirage imo.

Core Mesmer lacks the sustained damage to do anything really.It's not like Core Condi Mesmers need sustained damage, when they can kill an

average

new player within 10 second.

There fixed that for you.

[Heartpains.7312]

One dodge is too strong.Mirage can perma evade even with one dodge, and they can still use many different skills specially with one dodge they have so many options.Energy sigil should be changed that it gives them half dodge only , it is too strong.

And I have noticed that with 2 jaunts they can catch everyone or runaway if they wanted, this needs a hotfix, either reduce the range or make it 1 charge only.GS2 obviously kill multiple targets with just one single click, reduce its damage or remove the clone generating from it.

And most importantly now mirage is SOOOOOO much fun to play ....

The whole class had its fun removed from it, they kept nerfing core coz they had issues with chrono and mirage then they deleted chrono, and then they deleted mirage, I heard people say core can sill work to certain degree, good luck it is next on the line! =p

prepare the 50% nerfs!

[Jables.4659]

@pninak.1069 said:IH wasn't the problem. it is the ambush skills themselves.

IH was definitely the problem. Without IH, the ambush skills are useful without being obscene, but IH turns 1 skill use into 4, making them ridiculous.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Jables.4659 said:

@pninak.1069 said:IH wasn't the problem. it is the ambush skills themselves.

IH was definitely the problem. Without IH, the ambush skills are useful without being obscene, but IH turns 1 skill use into 4, making them ridiculous.

nah, most ambushes were dog when used without clone, channeling staff for 1s to MAYBE deal 2k condi damage.... yea....scept ambush that deals almost no damage... yeasword ambush that is bugged and doesnt land half the time.... yea ( its ok due to mobility )gs and axe are the ONLY ones that are REALLY good, and did those ones got abused with IH? hmmmm kinda sorta nope.Turns out 1 shit skill multiplied by 4 can be actually good

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Jables.4659 said:

@pninak.1069 said:IH wasn't the problem. it is the ambush skills themselves.

IH was definitely the problem. Without IH, the ambush skills are useful without being obscene, but IH turns 1 skill use into 4, making them ridiculous.

Ambushes are absolute trash without IH.The problem is devs seems to be deaf/blind, mesmers have been saying since PoF released - IH sould be baseline so you could balance ambushes right. In the current mess ambushes are either garbage with no IH or somewhat good (some of them, others are still trash) with IH.So no, the problem isn't IH, the problem lies in the ambush duality no IH vs IH.

[Quadox.7834]

You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.

[Moradorin.6217]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Jables.4659 said:

@pninak.1069 said:IH wasn't the problem. it is the ambush skills themselves.

IH was definitely the problem. Without IH, the ambush skills are useful without being obscene, but IH turns 1 skill use into 4, making them ridiculous.

Ambushes are absolute trash without IH.The problem is devs seems to be deaf/blind, mesmers have been saying since PoF released - IH sould be baseline so you could balance ambushes right. In the current mess ambushes are either garbage with no IH or somewhat good (some of them, others are still trash) with IH.So no, the problem isn't IH, the problem lies in the ambush duality no IH vs IH.

Right, as people have said till blue in the face in the past. IH NEEDS to be baseline/minor trait, Mirage SHOULD have 2 dodges like anyone, for consistency and to allow resource management of energy regeneration that doesnt negate endurance regen. benefits so badly. The Ambush skills should be balanced damage wise. I really dont get why Anet has had a hard time balancing Ambush skills. It seems pretty simple. The Ambush damage should increase per clone held. If IH was baseline the damage would always behave about the same, but increase the damage and stacks applied for each clone. That way Mirage is punished when it doesn't have clones like normal and has its best damage potential while it can maintain 3 clones and would have less damage potential when it doesn't maintain 3 clones. Base skill damage of core weapon sets should be tuned up to make core stronger/viable. The ambush skills I would think could then be adjusted based on 0 clones and get a modifier for 1-3 clones. Again, IH should be baseline. Chrono would probably need tweaks too when core damage is increased. I would suggest chrono should get normal cloneless shatter back and condsider tweaking chronophant trait which was always a balance issue for chrono before. Not sure the best solution for chronophant. I dont like that chrono is dead in pvp/wvw, but I think most can agree it has the potential to become an issue by crapping out 3 times as many clones, phants, etc as core or mirage.

THen we also need a glamor trait line back too maybe?

[storm.3120]

Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LUL
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clones

[Quadox.7834]

@Odik.4587 said:Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LULI am not saying that mesmer is super good, just that one dodge is not its main problem. If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.Yes I agree, the condi ambushes are generally bad (esp without IH).
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clonesYes I agree, most of the damage comes from torch burn and shatters (maim etc). Just saying that it is wrong to say that mirage is useless without IH which some seem to think.

[storm.3120]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LULI am not saying that mesmer is super good, just that one dodge is not its main problem. If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.Why would mirage have extra trade off? In their book it should be sufficent enough - one (not current "single evade") dodge is being replaced with another and its drawback its mobility .... or lack of it...?Chrono/mirage have got 2 trade offs when others either have none or have got infinite better stuff compared to what they have "lost". The same is here, mirage got better evade like this DH/FB etcetcetc getting better stuff but mesmer is an exception here, must be overkilled!
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.Yes I agree, the condi ambushes are generally bad (esp without IH).And that was the point - condi ambushes are really bad without IH.
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clonesYes I agree, most of the damage comes from torch burn and shatters (maim etc). Just saying that it is wrong to say that mirage is useless without IH which some seem to think.Try to play mirage without this shatter spam (illusions traitline) and tell me mirage is not useless without IH, I dare you. The same goes for power mirage - without IH its even worse than core mesmer

[Quadox.7834]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LULI am not saying that mesmer is super good, just that one dodge is not its main problem. If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.Why would mirage have extra trade off? In their book it should be sufficent enough - one (not current "single evade") dodge is being replaced with another and its drawback its mobility .... or lack of it...?Chrono/mirage have got 2 trade offs when others either have none or have got infinite better stuff compared to what they have "lost". The same is here, mirage got better evade like this DH/FB etcetcetc getting better stuff but mesmer is an exception here, must be overkilled!
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.Yes I agree, the condi ambushes are generally bad (esp without IH).And that was the point - condi ambushes are really bad without IH.They are bad with or without which is why most play domi now
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clonesYes I agree, most of the damage comes from torch burn and shatters (maim etc). Just saying that it is wrong to say that mirage is useless without IH which some seem to think.Try to play mirage without this shatter spam (illusions traitline) and tell me mirage is not useless without IH, I dare you. The same goes for power mirage - without IH its even worse than core mesmer

I disagree that it is worse than core mes

[Tayga.3192]

@Quadox.7834 said:If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.

I don't think this one dodge thing is a tradeoff, considering it doesn't affect PvE and it's not a mechanical change.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Quadox.7834 most play domi becouse dueling bleeds got nerfed to shit.-1 dodge means DE is worseadd in 70-80% dmg nerf to bleeds and here you go, they dont take domi becouse its somehow sleeper op, they take it becouse our former mandatory traitline got UBER nerfed. Power mes could still MAYBE use it alongside of domi+mirage for complex but thats about it.Typical mesmer traitline, take a line for 1 trait becouse the rest is half garbage :D

[Curunen.8729]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.

I don't think this one dodge thing is a tradeoff, considering it doesn't affect PvE and it's not a mechanical change.

I agree - a tradeoff should be something that affects all game modes, as with pretty much every other elite spec tradeoff that they've done.

This being a skill split (albeit a nonsensical one...), I'm apprehensive for what a real tradeoff could be in the future.

[Moradorin.6217]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LULI am not saying that mesmer is super good, just that one dodge is not its main problem. If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.Why would mirage have extra trade off? In their book it should be sufficent enough - one (not current "single evade") dodge is being replaced with another and its drawback its mobility .... or lack of it...?Chrono/mirage have got 2 trade offs when others either have none or have got infinite better stuff compared to what they have "lost". The same is here, mirage got better evade like this DH/FB etcetcetc getting better stuff but mesmer is an exception here, must be overkilled!
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.Yes I agree, the condi ambushes are generally bad (esp without IH).And that was the point - condi ambushes are really bad without IH.They are bad with or without which is why most play domi now
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clonesYes I agree, most of the damage comes from torch burn and shatters (maim etc). Just saying that it is wrong to say that mirage is useless without IH which some seem to think.Try to play mirage without this shatter spam (illusions traitline) and tell me mirage is not useless without IH, I dare you. The same goes for power mirage - without IH its even worse than core mesmer

I disagree that it is worse than core mes

Mirage with IH benefits from ambush damage, Mirage without IH has no damage improvements over core. Core has better trait options to improve damage or utility over Mirage once you aren't using IH. I think your view is very much in the minority Quad.

[Quadox.7834]

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LULI am not saying that mesmer is super good, just that one dodge is not its main problem. If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.Why would mirage have extra trade off? In their book it should be sufficent enough - one (not current "single evade") dodge is being replaced with another and its drawback its mobility .... or lack of it...?Chrono/mirage have got 2 trade offs when others either have none or have got infinite better stuff compared to what they have "lost". The same is here, mirage got better evade like this DH/FB etcetcetc getting better stuff but mesmer is an exception here, must be overkilled!
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.Yes I agree, the condi ambushes are generally bad (esp without IH).And that was the point - condi ambushes are really bad without IH.They are bad with or without which is why most play domi now
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clonesYes I agree, most of the damage comes from torch burn and shatters (maim etc). Just saying that it is wrong to say that mirage is useless without IH which some seem to think.Try to play mirage without this shatter spam (illusions traitline) and tell me mirage is not useless without IH, I dare you. The same goes for power mirage - without IH its even worse than core mesmer

I disagree that it is worse than core mes

Mirage with IH benefits from ambush damage, Mirage without IH has no damage improvements over core. Core has better trait options to improve damage or utility over Mirage once you aren't using IH. I think your view is very much in the minority Quad.

You are wrong, Mirage with EM (i.e. no IH) is better than core.

[Quadox.7834]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Quadox.7834 most play domi becouse dueling bleeds got nerfed to kitten.-1 dodge means DE is worseadd in 70-80% dmg nerf to bleeds and here you go, they dont take domi becouse its somehow sleeper op, they take it becouse our former mandatory traitline got UBER nerfed. Power mes could still MAYBE use it alongside of domi+mirage for complex but thats about it.Typical mesmer traitline, take a line for 1 trait becouse the rest is half garbage :D

Yes I agree, all I said was that condi ambushes are pretty weak and therefore don't make IH+DE a guaranteed pick anymore.

[squallaus.8321]

This is the worse balancing decision since gw2's existing. Stupid anet.Revert it back and make other changes instead.

[DylanLucas.6058]

I also find it funny how quiet ArenaNet developers stay when it comes to these kinda topics......

Yeah mesmer ruined and feels very weak.....

[Zoser.7245]

@"DylanLucas.6058" said:I also find it funny how quiet ArenaNet developers stay when it comes to these kinda topics......

Yeah mesmer ruined and feels very weak.....

And they are even paid for it. Nice way to have customers happy making their professions and specializations more woring to play and some even not desirable. I have great ideas to make the rest of professions and specializations more boring to play with a Great balance/rework. Maybe i should ask for a job in Arenanet in the balance team. I'll do a great job in the same way they did with Chronomancer and the "One dodge man" with the rest of professions and their specializations.

[Dragostorm.2453]

mirage has a tonne of mobility the dodge now just plays as a damage dodge. (check me out in like 3 weeks of PVP and a nervous breakdown when I attempt a fractal raid with it).

[Zoser.7245]

@Dragostorm.2453 said:mirage has a tonne of mobility the dodge now just plays as a damage dodge. (check me out in like 3 weeks of PVP and a nervous breakdown when I attempt a fractal raid with it).

The single dodge today is mainly used to kite with sword ambush, you rarely have the oportunity to use it offensively with axe. Tonne of mobility? Less than before if you count two ambushes to kite and the staff 2 in the old builds.

[Yoci.2481]

Many professions have more mobility than Mirage, let alone core Mesmer.