Want to support the game but... The gemstore.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Floppy.4936 said:Converting gold to gems defeats the purpose of this as you are not supporting the game. Do you think Anet can pay for servers with in game gold? Also The amount of gold needed to get all the template stuff is crazy and is not something most people have lying around.

That's an extremely narrow viewpoint. Of course ANET doesn't pay for their servers with gold, they need money for that. When I go to the BL store and buy gems with gold, where did those gems come? They were purchased by players, using money, who then want to sell them for in game gold.

They buy gems from ANET with cash and sell them to me for gold.

If I wasn't there to buy the games with gold, they wouldn't be able to buy gold with gems, and therefore, they wouldn't buy gems in the first place.

Therefore, my buying gems with gold totally supports ANET - it just isn't my money that's doing it, but the money of the other player I'm empowering to do so.

[zaekeon.5128]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a

resounding yes

but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont

have to

max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

I think we can spin the numbers however we want but when look at how inventory, bags, template space etc are all locked behind huge price tags when considering all classes it is a huge turn off to new players. Id personally like the community to grow and I think arenanets monetizing schemes need to evolve.

Add a monthly subscription that makes someone feel like they are getting value out of it by unlocking all of those things as long as you sub (eso is a great example of this working very well).

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@"Floppy.4936" said:So this is a bit of a rant and most likely not a popular opinion but I am currently finding it difficult to justify spending money on gemstore items. I love GW2 and want to support the game, however there are a few concerns that are pushing me away from the gemstore.

The first issue I have is with mount skins and that sets of Mount skins rarely get completed and take a very long time. I have been waiting years to complete my favorite mount set yet there are still unreleased skins and Anet is only bringing out newer sets. Please finish the older mount sets! I do not want to invest into any more mount skins and end up with lots of mix and match unfinished sets.

Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30. Due to this I have been put off investing in the templates and am now only becoming increasingly concerned about how the Legendary Armoury is going to be monetized.Unlimited gathering tools are also worth mentioning here as they will set you back about 3k gems per character, which again is more than PoF currently costs.

Of course I have purchased a lot of gemstore items previously however I mainly go for utility items such as Mistlock Sanctuary Pass, bank/material/inventory expansions and unlimited tools/salvage kits when on sale along with some cosmetic glider/mount skins. Beyond these I have not invested in much else due to the reason above and that I mostly see outfits and chairs on the gemstore these days. Personally I do not like outfits and have never purchased one. I love the idea of chairs and think they are a great addition, however I instantly regret buying my only chair when I found out they are technically mounts and cannot be used in places such as the Mistlock Sanctuary. So I find myself struggling to find anything that feels worthwhile to get without feeling ripped off.

I would like to note that the purpose of this thread is not just to rant about the things I don't like, but rather to bring attention to these things in hope of making the game more successful.

I agree on the Mount skins, I feel the entire system is shoddy and should be revamped.

For one, they're too expensive for a purely cosmetic item; you shouldn't have something in the gemstore that costs several times more than everything else. For the really good ones like the Magnificient Hummingbird it makes sense, but for the normal Mount skins the high price (without RNG) likely prevents more sales than it encourages. And it doesn't work out like Black Lion Chests do because you can't sell the resulting skins on the Trading Post; they're just pure account-bound lootboxes, and on top of this your chances of getting a complete set are very low; even the "complete sets" sold as packages are usually incomplete.

As for gathering tools, you don't buy them for every character. You buy three shared slots and then fill them with a single set of gathering tools. So I feel like they're very reasonable considering that they last forever.

As for Build Templates, that feature was mainly intended for hardcore players who only play 1-2 characters and put everything onto those characters. Often these people never even character switch, and have like 2-3 sets of Ascended or Legendary armor just one one character. This system wasn't meant for the average person, who will be just fine with the two equipment tabs and the three build tabs. Its much cheaper to just make another character than to purchase the upgrades and most veteran players can insta-80 that character easily. So despite all the critics, I think this system is pretty fair since you have three options, you can buy the upgrades, make more characters, or use the old way and just add bag slots. There's plenty of options, so its not like players are being choked for money here.

They even added 32-slot bags for the players who want to avoid purchasing bag slots.

As for Chairs/Mounts in Mistlock Sanctuary, its (probably?) because its a Core map; technically its a part of Fractals. They should probably allow Chairs in here at least but Mounts specifically aren't allowed to reduce visual clutter.

I will say this: ArenaNet misses massive oppertunities with the gemstore because they either. 1. Don't seem creative enough, or 2. Want to avoid poisoning the game with things they feel don't fit it. For example, they could add tails to the gemstore, which given how extremely popular the animal-themed hats have been (the cat, bunny and fox ears, deer antlers and Skyscale horns). would sell like hotcakes. But for some reason they don't. Its the same with many other things that could be added but they just.. don't.

I understand they don't want this game to become another cookie-cutter MMO. But its old, and it needs to survive.

[Obtena.7952]

@Floppy.4936 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:

I am no expert, but it would be a case of quantity. Lowing the price will result in people buying a lot more of them and can result in more profit.I"m pretty sure that Anet's experts have considered this and know the correct price points. You and I may disagree with that, but their metrics might well tell them a different story.

Of course, but I can only go off my experience. But when that experience is not buying any template stuff at all because of the price I cant help but notice it hasn't worked in my case. I should also point out that buying a new character slot is actually cheaper than buying 2 new equipment slots, which also doesn't make much sense.

To you, who is basing their experience off n=1 ... it doesn't make sense. To Anet, who collects more data than they need, where they apply their resources to provide gemstore goods, it make LOTS of sense.

The difference is that you view this from a player perspective, not a overall business perspective.

[Mehera.5361]

Gw2 is the only game I play or even played with such an overpriced gems store. 20 euros for a skin, I'm sorry but how about no. It frustrate me to no end because I would buy a lot more if price weren't that high.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Mehera.5361 said:Gw2 is the only game I play or even played with such an overpriced gems store. 20 euros for a skin, I'm sorry but how about no. It frustrate me to no end because I would buy a lot more if price weren't that high.You clearly havent played any other game then if you consider this gemstore bad.

Imagine if you did a raid, was about to do another then a popup prompt come up...

You dont have the energy to do another raid! You can spend 500 gems to access the raid now or wait 9h 59m. Click HERE to purchase more gems.

[crepuscular.9047]

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30. Due to this I have been put off investing in the templates and am now only becoming increasingly concerned about how the Legendary Armoury is going to be monetized.

It's really for those hardcore Raiders, which typically have tons of gold they can turn into gems

regular players 2 sets of build on a single toon is more than enough; I would just buy a character slot, which also means = more bag space = additional toon to park at farming spot

@Floppy.4936 said:I am no expert, but it would be a case of quantity. Lowing the price will result in people buying a lot more of them and can result in more profit. This is the reason items go on sale for reduced prices.

They may sell more, but the problem is, can it be sold repeatedly? hence why a Character Slot is so cheap, whereas skins are more expensive

Anet's in-game store is a far cry from the prices Blizzard charges for their in-game storeBDO is probably the most expensive one I have played, it's pretty much $150 base to start per toon (all outfits are non-shareable) to stay competitive + monthly spending on the P2W "value pack"

[Mehera.5361]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Mehera.5361 said:Gw2 is the only game I play or even played with such an overpriced gems store. 20 euros for a skin, I'm sorry but how about no. It frustrate me to no end because I would buy a lot more if price weren't that high.You clearly havent played any other game then if you consider this gemstore bad.

Imagine if you did a raid, was about to do another then a popup prompt come up...

You dont have the energy to do another raid! You can spend 500 gems to access the raid now or wait 9h 59m. Click HERE to purchase more gems.

I don't know what cheap game you played but yes, I did play other games, which are free like guild wars and are offering more rewarding gems store and use of my money.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The President (former)/CEO/Founder of ArenaNet stated explicitly why items such as Mount Skins are not offered at lower prices.Items that are easily acquired with in-game Gold do not provide the revenue the game needs.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:The President (former)/CEO/Founder of ArenaNet stated explicitly why items such as Mount Skins are not offered at lower prices.Items that are easily acquired with in-game Gold do not provide the revenue the game needs.

Which was a bit of a weird comment considering all the "if you buy gems with gold, someone did buy them with cash" arguments used to justify buying gems with gold. If that was true and every single gem bought with gold was previously bought with cash, then the actual price of an item wouldn't make a difference, they are all the same gems after all.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I dunno. Maybe the Gold Sink on the exchange takes too big a bite. /shrugOr maybe it instills the "I'll wait and save up Gold" too much.I dunno. I'm guessing the Marketing professionals understand what's best for the game and the company.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I dunno. Maybe the Gold Sink on the exchange takes too big a bite. /shrugOr maybe it instills the "I'll wait and save up Gold" too much.I dunno. I'm guessing the Marketing professionals understand what's best for the game and the company.

It's the "revenue" part I was wondering about. The global revenue of the game shouldn't be affected much by how expensive items are, since all gems are bought with cash anyway. What they probably meant is the monthly/weekly revenue depends on the pricing which does make sense.

[Vancho.8750]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:The President (former)/CEO/Founder of ArenaNet stated explicitly why items such as Mount Skins are not offered at lower prices.Items that are easily acquired with in-game Gold do not provide the revenue the game needs.

Which was a bit of a weird comment considering all the "if you buy gems with gold, someone did buy them with cash" arguments used to justify buying gems with gold. If that was true and every single gem bought with gold was previously bought with cash, then the actual price of an item wouldn't make a difference, they are all the same gems after all.It is quite interesting since they are adding a lot of gold sinks to the newer episodes since they no longer add new legendary per episode.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:The President (former)/CEO/Founder of ArenaNet stated explicitly why items such as Mount Skins are not offered at lower prices.Items that are easily acquired with in-game Gold do not provide the revenue the game needs.

Other developers have said that the gem exchange uses a tug-of-war between people with real cash and people who buy gemstore items with gold and thus all gems are technically purchased with real cash because otherwise none would be available on the gold exchange (It'd be too expensive for anyone to ever manage via in-game methods).

The inflation has gone up severely from game start (from ~20s for a character slot to ~300g), showing it works.

Its literally the entire reason the feature is implemented, and don't you think they'd disable it if that were true, as well as similar mechanics like being able to sell BLC skins on the Trading Post? Or that they'd increase the price of the other items they still introduce regularly, like Outfits? It just doesn't align with what's been stated.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Floppy.4936 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a

resounding yes

but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont

have to

max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

I think purchasing the stuff in a way that you do not notice the actual cost is not only a bad financial idea but not the solution to this. :)

I agree, so don't try to buy it all at once? It seems like a rather simple solution to your manufactured dilemma. I mean, it's not like you can't buy enough shared inventory slots to put your gathering tools in, is it? I mean, I currently only have three slots, haven't been buying them with anything like regularity, but the tools will go in them just fine, so no, you don't need to buy them for all of your characters, you can buy them once, with a couple of shared slots, and be good to go. You can even spread the purchases out over several months.

[Floppy.4936]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:

I am no expert, but it would be a case of quantity. Lowing the price will result in people buying a lot more of them and can result in more profit.I"m pretty sure that Anet's experts have considered this and know the correct price points. You and I may disagree with that, but their metrics might well tell them a different story.

Of course, but I can only go off my experience. But when that experience is not buying any template stuff at all because of the price I cant help but notice it hasn't worked in my case. I should also point out that buying a new character slot is actually cheaper than buying 2 new equipment slots, which also doesn't make much sense.

To you, who is basing their experience off n=1 ... it doesn't make sense. To Anet, who collects more data than they need, where they apply their resources to provide gemstore goods, it make LOTS of sense.

The difference is that you view this from a player perspective, not a overall business perspective.

Of course I do, as I am a player. Also I do not doubt Anet need to look at things with a business perspective, but should also have user experience in mind.

[frareanselm.1925]

I dont know if its just me or others can relate, when I have a mount skin equipped, usually when I summon the animal it shows the core look of the mount, NOT the gemstore look. This happens untill I click the mount window, reselect the skin, and then works.Thanks God I just have the skin as the "rollback compensation item", if I just paid real money to have a skin mount I'd be really angry!

[Lumikki.1725]

Not really much to say in the gemstore issue. It's a choise what company makes as business model.

I like GW2 as game, that's why I buyed the game as support, compared just playing free. How ever I will NEVER buy anyting from Gemstore for ANY reason or any means. Because I don't support "item shops" in games in general. Item shops has very negative impact in virtual gameworlds. Item shop does not even work unless you take someting out of the game and then selling it in item shop.

[Vrath.1754]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:

Yes I want to support the game, but I am only willing to buy so many overpriced things and spend so much on what at the end of the day is a game and virtual items. I want the game to be successful but I just fear with some of the recent gemstore additions it may drive people away.A valid fear for sure, but one Anet is surely looking at. Their shareholders would certainly be paying attention.

Just want to add Anets prices are within reason and mostly inline with what other MMOs have set despite some of them also having a optional or required subs. I'm sure their market research helped find what they believe the sweet spot is.On the other end there are games like BDO, they are on the high end, last I checked it was something like $34 per outfit.

All that said for a B2P game given the amount of time one can get out of GW2, for long time players with the base game purchase and 2 xpacs. It's a very good deal over 8 years. Considering almost all gem store items can be purchased using the gold to gems conversion. There should be relatively little to complain about.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

@Floppy.4936 said:

I would like to note that the purpose of this thread is not just to rant about the things I don't like, but rather to bring attention to these things in hope of making the game more successful.

I would be interested to see what kind of credentials you have to be able to say whether these things have and/or will (a staggering time into the Gem Store's lifetime mind you) have on the 'success' of the game. Because this all seems like a very self-inflated mepost disguised as an 'I'm concerned' thread.

For the record (and quote me on thsi:: I have absolutely no issue with how A-net runs the gem-store. This is me, as someone who is a customer of the store, and as someone who can recognize (from the standards of a creative professional); the stellar quality of product they've continued to produce since the store's inception.

tl;dr: the standards for which you personally measure the game currently are all internalized and can be summed up to a few moments of buyer's remorse.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:The President (former)/CEO/Founder of ArenaNet stated explicitly why items such as Mount Skins are not offered at lower prices.Items that are easily acquired with in-game Gold do not provide the revenue the game needs.

I saw that statement. He said that cosmetic items are hit and miss because not everyone has the same tastes, and that as a result, bundles, expensive skins and random skins work to fund the game, but that lower priced individual skins do not. There was no mention of the exchange. IF you're referring to a different statement than Mr. O'Brien's response to the Mountgate uproar, then please post it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

My bad, then. But, if lower priced items don't fund the game, what would be the reason for this? Other than being easily acquired through Gold-to-Gems? (And yes, I know that Gems are purchased by players for the exchange.)I guess it takes a lot of resources to create a skin/item/feature; thus they must be higher-priced to recoup said resources.

Either way, it may answer the question as to why items cost what they do. /shrug

[lare.5129]

buy 1000+ black lion keys and be happy.

[Obtena.7952]

@Floppy.4936 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:

I am no expert, but it would be a case of quantity. Lowing the price will result in people buying a lot more of them and can result in more profit.I"m pretty sure that Anet's experts have considered this and know the correct price points. You and I may disagree with that, but their metrics might well tell them a different story.

Of course, but I can only go off my experience. But when that experience is not buying any template stuff at all because of the price I cant help but notice it hasn't worked in my case. I should also point out that buying a new character slot is actually cheaper than buying 2 new equipment slots, which also doesn't make much sense.

To you, who is basing their experience off n=1 ... it doesn't make sense. To Anet, who collects more data than they need, where they apply their resources to provide gemstore goods, it make LOTS of sense.

The difference is that you view this from a player perspective, not a overall business perspective.

Of course I do, as I am a player. Also I do not doubt Anet need to look at things with a business perspective, but should also have user experience in mind.

And you have no reasonable basis to say they don't have the UX in mind. You're N=1 case just doesn't stand on it's own.

[Yggranya.5201]

Any and every decision gaming companies, like all companies make are driven by trying to make as much profit as possible. The user experience is on the lowest point in the line of importance. Sure, if you can make the experience better cheaply and easily, then go for it but if not then whatever. People need to learn that companies are not their friends.