Upcoming Balance Notes

[Dragana.1497]

Damage-build soulbeasts have been unleashing numbers that are higher than they should be. This is on a broad level rather than being tied to particular weapons or utility skills. As such, we're tapping the power and condition damage bonuses they gain while merged with deadly and ferocious pets for some reductions. In competitive game modes, druids have been seen significantly less use for their supportive abilities, so we're tuning those up to encourage bringing the affected traits and glyphs.

• "Protect Me!": Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from granting barrier while the ranger was merged with their pet as a soulbeast.
• Viper's Nest: Increased the duration of poison inflicted from 4 seconds to 8 seconds, and reduced the stacks per pulse from 3 to 2.
• Deadly Archetype (Soulbeast): Reduced the condition damage increase gained while merged with this Deadly archetype pets by 25% (200 to 150 at level 80) in PvE only.
• Ferocious Archetype (Soulbeast): Reduced power increase gained while merged with Ferocious archetype pets by 25% (200 to 150 at level 80) in PvE only.
• Seed of Life: Increased number of conditions cleansed from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW.
• Lunar Impact: Increased healing coefficient from 0.72 to 1.0 in PvP and WvW.
• Vine Surge: Increased immobilize duration from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Grace of the Land: Increased might stacks from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW.
• Glyph of Rejuvenation (non-celestial): Increased base self-heal from 4,860 to 5,589 in PvP and WvW. Increased base heal for allies from 1,950 to 2,535 in PvP and WvW.
• Glyph of Rejuvenation (celestial avatar): Increased base self-heal from 1,950 to 2,535 in PvP and WvW. Increased base heal for allies from 4,860 to 5,589 in PvP and WvW.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109025/upcoming-balance-notes/p1

[Krispera.5087]

• PvE nerf that will hurt every builds, when the problem is dependence to Sic Em.
• Viper's Nest change doesn't change anything, not many trapping Condi Rangers in PvP and Condi Ranger use Flame Trap in PvE.
• Protect Me ! : I can only see it being nerfed after a while. They have an habit to buff a skill to some level then just destroy it.
• Druids : lol ok, better than nothing. Won't still fix Druid's problems. Now that you nerfed many pets coefficients, why not give the full stats pets to Druid now ? If you can give Self Shatters back to Chrono and Self Shade to Scourge ? Is Druid that oppressive in comparison to those specs ?

And that's it ? 4 months for that ? Jeez. See you in 4-6 months.

[Shagie.7612]

I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

[Axl.8924]

@"Dragana.1497" said:Damage-build soulbeasts have been unleashing numbers that are higher than they should be. This is on a broad level rather than being tied to particular weapons or utility skills. As such, we're tapping the power and condition damage bonuses they gain while merged with deadly and ferocious pets for some reductions. In competitive game modes, druids have been seen significantly less use for their supportive abilities, so we're tuning those up to encourage bringing the affected traits and glyphs.

• "Protect Me!": Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from granting barrier while the ranger was merged with their pet as a soulbeast.
• Viper's Nest: Increased the duration of poison inflicted from 4 seconds to 8 seconds, and reduced the stacks per pulse from 3 to 2.
• Deadly Archetype (Soulbeast): Reduced the condition damage increase gained while merged with this Deadly archetype pets by 25% (200 to 150 at level 80) in PvE only.
• Ferocious Archetype (Soulbeast): Reduced power increase gained while merged with Ferocious archetype pets by 25% (200 to 150 at level 80) in PvE only.
• Seed of Life: Increased number of conditions cleansed from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW.
• Lunar Impact: Increased healing coefficient from 0.72 to 1.0 in PvP and WvW.
• Vine Surge: Increased immobilize duration from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Grace of the Land: Increased might stacks from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW.
• Glyph of Rejuvenation (non-celestial): Increased base self-heal from 4,860 to 5,589 in PvP and WvW. Increased base heal for allies from 1,950 to 2,535 in PvP and WvW.
• Glyph of Rejuvenation (celestial avatar): Increased base self-heal from 1,950 to 2,535 in PvP and WvW. Increased base heal for allies from 4,860 to 5,589 in PvP and WvW.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109025/upcoming-balance-notes/p1

The pvp changes are interesting but not sure if its enough to make druid really stand out.

[Methuselah.4376]

Figures that power Soulbeast gets a nerf when I started to really enjoy playing it and using it for raids and T4s...sigh. At least from what I can see it's just a 50 power dip, so the nerf shouldn't be THAT bad ya? I guess I could invest in some mighty AR to make up the difference...

[mistsim.2748]

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

The Poison Master Soulbeast is the best duelist in the game, but very few play it. Myself and a few others did. There were rangers in top 30 with this (I believe the guy who came up with the build), and I was in Plat 2. I'm sure there were others.

I believe some of the top level players didn't like getting smoked by this on the side node, and simply whined to CMC during their little secret meetings. At least, they whined enough to put it on ANet's radar.

I can't imagine any other reason for this nerf. The nerf itself is significant, because the trap added a nice level of condi burst and sustain to the build. I know they gave it duration, but people slot a ton of cleanses in good high level builds, so condi duration rarely matters in spvp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dps loss.

I don't think the build is dead, but it was heavily reliant on Viper's Nest. We may see some of these rangers slotting flame trap instead, for 10k unblockable damage. Maybe sword/torch instead of d/d. We'll see.

It's really too bad, because it was a nice little niche build that was strong without being broken.

[shadowpass.4236]

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

The Poison Master Soulbeast is the best duelist in the game, but very few play it. Myself and a few others did. There were rangers in top 30 with this (I believe the guy who came up with the build), and I was in Plat 2. I'm sure there were others.

I believe some of the top level players didn't like getting smoked by this on the side node, and simply whined to CMC during their little secret meetings. At least, they whined enough to put it on ANet's radar.

I can't imagine any other reason for this nerf. The nerf itself is significant, because the trap added a nice level of condi burst and sustain to the build. I know they gave it duration, but people slot a ton of cleanses in good high level builds, so condi duration rarely matters in spvp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dps loss.

I don't think the build is dead, but it was heavily reliant on Viper's Nest. We may see some of these rangers slotting flame trap instead, for 10k unblockable damage. Maybe sword/torch instead of d/d. We'll see.

It's really too bad, because it was a nice little niche build that was strong without being broken.

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

The Poison Master Soulbeast is the best duelist in the game, but very few play it. Myself and a few others did. There were rangers in top 30 with this (I believe the guy who came up with the build), and I was in Plat 2. I'm sure there were others.

I believe some of the top level players didn't like getting smoked by this on the side node, and simply whined to CMC during their little secret meetings. At least, they whined enough to put it on ANet's radar.

I can't imagine any other reason for this nerf. The nerf itself is significant, because the trap added a nice level of condi burst and sustain to the build. I know they gave it duration, but people slot a ton of cleanses in good high level builds, so condi duration rarely matters in spvp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dps loss.

I don't think the build is dead, but it was heavily reliant on Viper's Nest. We may see some of these rangers slotting flame trap instead, for 10k unblockable damage. Maybe sword/torch instead of d/d. We'll see.

It's really too bad, because it was a nice little niche build that was strong without being broken.

The condi soulbeast build loses to the bunker soulbeast build. You'll get fullcapped and have 0 kill pressure against it. It wasn't brought up in the meeting, and it was hardly a secret considering it was posted about in advance in a popular public discord.

[mistsim.2748]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

The Poison Master Soulbeast is the best duelist in the game, but very few play it. Myself and a few others did. There were rangers in top 30 with this (I believe the guy who came up with the build), and I was in Plat 2. I'm sure there were others.

I believe some of the top level players didn't like getting smoked by this on the side node, and simply whined to CMC during their little secret meetings. At least, they whined enough to put it on ANet's radar.

I can't imagine any other reason for this nerf. The nerf itself is significant, because the trap added a nice level of condi burst and sustain to the build. I know they gave it duration, but people slot a ton of cleanses in good high level builds, so condi duration rarely matters in spvp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dps loss.

I don't think the build is dead, but it was heavily reliant on Viper's Nest. We may see some of these rangers slotting flame trap instead, for 10k unblockable damage. Maybe sword/torch instead of d/d. We'll see.

It's really too bad, because it was a nice little niche build that was strong without being broken.

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

The Poison Master Soulbeast is the best duelist in the game, but very few play it. Myself and a few others did. There were rangers in top 30 with this (I believe the guy who came up with the build), and I was in Plat 2. I'm sure there were others.

I believe some of the top level players didn't like getting smoked by this on the side node, and simply whined to CMC during their little secret meetings. At least, they whined enough to put it on ANet's radar.

I can't imagine any other reason for this nerf. The nerf itself is significant, because the trap added a nice level of condi burst and sustain to the build. I know they gave it duration, but people slot a ton of cleanses in good high level builds, so condi duration rarely matters in spvp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dps loss.

I don't think the build is dead, but it was heavily reliant on Viper's Nest. We may see some of these rangers slotting flame trap instead, for 10k unblockable damage. Maybe sword/torch instead of d/d. We'll see.

It's really too bad, because it was a nice little niche build that was strong without being broken.

The condi soulbeast build loses to the bunker soulbeast build. You'll get fullcapped and have 0 kill pressure against it. It wasn't brought up in the meeting, and it was hardly a secret considering it was posted about in advance in a popular public discord.

That's good. Doesn't really matter I suppose.

From my experience, bunker Soulbeast was probably my easiest matchup. Don't think I ever lost to it.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Finaly some Druid buffs.

Now we wait for Staff rework in 6 months.

[Cyric.7813]

i have been regretting for 2 years for pick ranger as main

[shadowpass.4236]

@mistsim.2748 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

The Poison Master Soulbeast is the best duelist in the game, but very few play it. Myself and a few others did. There were rangers in top 30 with this (I believe the guy who came up with the build), and I was in Plat 2. I'm sure there were others.

I believe some of the top level players didn't like getting smoked by this on the side node, and simply whined to CMC during their little secret meetings. At least, they whined enough to put it on ANet's radar.

I can't imagine any other reason for this nerf. The nerf itself is significant, because the trap added a nice level of condi burst and sustain to the build. I know they gave it duration, but people slot a ton of cleanses in good high level builds, so condi duration rarely matters in spvp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dps loss.

I don't think the build is dead, but it was heavily reliant on Viper's Nest. We may see some of these rangers slotting flame trap instead, for 10k unblockable damage. Maybe sword/torch instead of d/d. We'll see.

It's really too bad, because it was a nice little niche build that was strong without being broken.

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

The Poison Master Soulbeast is the best duelist in the game, but very few play it. Myself and a few others did. There were rangers in top 30 with this (I believe the guy who came up with the build), and I was in Plat 2. I'm sure there were others.

I believe some of the top level players didn't like getting smoked by this on the side node, and simply whined to CMC during their little secret meetings. At least, they whined enough to put it on ANet's radar.

I can't imagine any other reason for this nerf. The nerf itself is significant, because the trap added a nice level of condi burst and sustain to the build. I know they gave it duration, but people slot a ton of cleanses in good high level builds, so condi duration rarely matters in spvp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dps loss.

I don't think the build is dead, but it was heavily reliant on Viper's Nest. We may see some of these rangers slotting flame trap instead, for 10k unblockable damage. Maybe sword/torch instead of d/d. We'll see.

It's really too bad, because it was a nice little niche build that was strong without being broken.

The condi soulbeast build loses to the bunker soulbeast build. You'll get fullcapped and have 0 kill pressure against it. It wasn't brought up in the meeting, and it was hardly a secret considering it was posted about in advance in a popular public discord.

That's good. Doesn't really matter I suppose.

From my experience, bunker Soulbeast was probably my easiest matchup. Don't think I ever lost to it.

The bunker soulbeast will never kill anything 1v1. You'll just get fullcapped eventually and have to leave because you won't be able to kill it either and the knockbacks will get you eventually.

[LughLongArm.5460]

Druid buffs looks significant, traited Glyph of Rejuvenation looks like an interesting option to experiment with.

[mistsim.2748]

@LughLongArm.5460 said:Druid buffs looks significant, traited Glyph of Rejuvenation looks like an interesting option to experiment with.

Maybe, if lesser seed is buffed. Problem is glyphs are just in a terrible shape. Still, side node druid is a bit stronger now for sure.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Condi nerf in PvE sux a bit but atleast they didnt touch the weapons.Protect me fix is long overdue. Happy to see that.Drzid changes are atleast something. Although not enough.

[Swagger.1459]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

The condi soulbeast build loses to the bunker soulbeast build. You'll get fullcapped and have 0 kill pressure against it. It wasn't brought up in the meeting, and it was hardly a secret considering it was posted about in advance in a popular public discord.

Curious minds in the community want to understand more of this "meeting" stuff?

[Kolisch.4691]

@Cyric.7813 said:i have been regretting for 2 years for pick ranger as main

Imagine those who've mained ranger since launch and quit but still look at the patch notes every few months. Depressing.

[Cyric.7813]

@Kolisch.4691 said:

@Cyric.7813 said:i have been regretting for 2 years for pick ranger as main

Imagine those who've mained ranger since launch and quit but still look at the patch notes every few months. Depressing.

regretting for 2 years, bur played since HoT)

[Shiyo.3578]

PvP/WvW Druid doesn't need to be buffed. It's the 2nd least interactive class to fight in the entire game and incredibly unfun to fight. You're either dazed, immobed or they're stealthed. WvW players complain about druid in it's current "weak" state because when there's no nodes to fight over the completely broken aspects of the entire class comes out.So what's anet do? They give it more immob...uh......?

Remove ALL entangle effects and make it just normal immob. Remove all the CC off celestial avatar and make it an actual healer stance that sucks at healing yourself so you can't be an invincible bunker. Nerf pet damage on druid even further(ranger pets do more damage than most players). Make druid able to compete with tempest and firebrand as a support in PvP/WvW instead of being this incredibly unfun 1v1er that no one wants to fight.

PvE druid needs to be buffed back to it's HoT level imo, condi druid was fun, unique damage buff was fun. I wish this wasn't a raid only class for PvE. Druid shouldn't be forced into harrier gear and need healing power to heal efficiently - hybrid healers are much more fun and interesting, and PURE supports don't fit this games combat or content. It fits raids, but raids are incredibly niche content nearly no one does, so classes shouldn't be ONLY for them.

PvP/WvW/PvE soulbeast: Sic'em needed to be nerfed, and it wasn't. No comment on condi soulbeast because I've never seen one in fractals(condi is nearly useless there due to phasing with good players) and mirage is better on any condi spec fight that I've done in raids.

PvP ranger: Protect me barrier removed entirely, bring the taunt back. 4k on 24s CD is almost as strong as some classes 30 second cool-down healing spell. This is an absurd utility skill.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

The condi soulbeast build loses to the bunker soulbeast build. You'll get fullcapped and have 0 kill pressure against it. It wasn't brought up in the meeting, and it was hardly a secret considering it was posted about in advance in a popular public discord.

Curious minds in the community want to understand more of this "meeting" stuff?

Feel free to ask questions in the PvP discord. There are many people who can answer.

[Shiyo.3578]

Highly don't recommend that Discord. If you have different opinions you get muted.

[Lumikki.1725]

As far I can see PvE Druids got notting.

[Lazze.9870]

@Krispera.5087 said:

• Viper's Nest change doesn't change anything, not many trapping Condi Rangers in PvP and Condi Ranger use Flame Trap in PvE.

Maybe not from what most people play, but the combination of Viper's Nest + Predator's Cunning in a poison dueler build in pvp/wvw combo gets hit pretty hard.

Druid buffs are nice to see, but not the changes that were most needed (although if Lesser Seed of Life gets buffed aswell, it will help the glyphs a lot). Still, the fact that they acknowledge that druid hardly gets played in competetive modes for its support abilities is a start. Depends if they follow up on it.

I don't understand why they just can't do something about Sic'Em instead of nerfing aspects of soulbeast. Getting stats from pets when merged is like half the point of merging to begin with. Sic' em however has never been a fun skill to use ever, except from when slaughetering thieves from the SA guild in wvw.

[Krispera.5087]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Krispera.5087 said:

• Viper's Nest change doesn't change anything, not many trapping Condi Rangers in PvP and Condi Ranger use Flame Trap in PvE.

Maybe not from what most people play, but the combination of Viper's Nest + Predator's Cunning combo gets hit pretty hard.

That's what bother me. The build is rarely played, yet it got hit ? Was it THAT PROBLEMATIC ? I mean to get hit by Viper's Nest in nowadays PvP movement mobility access, you actually deserve it.

I can't help but feel they balance based on ANet streamers rage, because they get surprised by non-meta builds.

If the nerf is based on PvE, then they missed it from miles away. Viper's Nest or Flame Trap are not obligatory in condi builds. Beside, again, condi builds aren't that used in high sPvE. I only use my condi ranger build in Strikes because it's easier with pugs, that's it.

[Lazze.9870]

@Shiyo.3578 said:PvP/WvW Druid doesn't need to be buffed.

Even in a world where your vision of CA becoming a healer stance with no personal sustain and CC (as if CA doesn't gives a big enough target on you in pvp as is) became true, it would still need literal buffs to some staff and glyph abilities. So yes, some places it needs buffs. Other places it needs reworks.

Heals and CCs were the two major component of its design, if you're gonna strip druid of CC while still making it wvw competetive, there is gonna be an even bigger need to add stuff that actually makes it compete with support scrapper/tempest in wvw. Druid currently offers healing, cleanses and immob in a wvw squad. Tempest has superior cleansing, auras and more boons, while scrapper has superspeed, stealth, condi-to-boon conversion with superior cleansing. Both also have more reliable healing, especially scrapper with its medkit 1 spam.

As for Protect me; to hell with the taunt. It's already an aoe stunbreak, give it an aoe support ability in addition to that. Actually, properly flesh out all the command skills while at it. Guard needs a shake up as well. Rework Sic 'em while at it. Oh, and why not make them shout skills again.

[Lazze.9870]

@Krispera.5087 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Krispera.5087 said:

• Viper's Nest change doesn't change anything, not many trapping Condi Rangers in PvP and Condi Ranger use Flame Trap in PvE.

Maybe not from what most people play, but the combination of Viper's Nest + Predator's Cunning combo gets hit pretty hard.

That's what bother me. The build is rarely played, yet it got hit ? Was it THAT PROBLEMATIC ? I mean to get hit by Viper's Nest in nowadays PvP movement mobility access, you actually deserve it.

I can't help but feel they balance based on ANet streamers rage, because they get surprised by non-meta builds.

I have only ever used it in wvw duels. I wouldn't call it problematic. Strong dueler, but not op. I doubt it performs better than it should in pvp.

It's a Viper's Nest nerf, which it hardly needed, and it undermines the entire point of Predator's Cunning which is ranger's access to fast applying poison.