Patch notes up July 7th, Wvw NERFS.

[mixxed.5862]

@"babazhook.6805" said:The biggest imbalance problem in WvW are numbers, that being the amount of people one server group can muster at any given time versus their competitors. Servers that are always outnumbered generally can not compete .

The only side that a nerf to ACS and siege helps is the side with greater numbers. When AOE spells can be dumped on walls above and do more damage then those people above can do with ACS or cannons then this just more "he who gets there with the mostest" wins.

Given alliances seems to be a pipe dream and years off IF it ever occurs, this nerf to siege was ill timed.

There really is no point to people on an outnumbered server going out to fight the blob so what they generally did was try and defend what they could with thier smaller numbers while using siege to help equalize. What this nerf does is basically tell the outnumbered servers "There no point in going out and fighting those blobs when outnumbered 2 to 1 and now there no point in trying to defend an objective".

Bad move.

Healing overall was reduced by about 33% in the february patch. This change was meant to bring siege back in line with that. In my opinion it was necessary.

[Sovereign.1093]

My warclaw huhu. Now we have little to no counter against the blob who get downed. :/

[TidalTrident.4013]

??? so much ? on this forum page. These changes were actually great and needed changes.All dmg across the board got nerfed on a big balance patch a while back as well as HEALING. Whereas, siege and banner dmg didn't get nerfed, they were already hard to deal with in the first place and got harder to deal with, they needed to be nerfed as well to maintain the balance. The nerf is perfectly fine.

Mount stomps were straight up cancer, ruining zerging and wvw roaming experience because it favoured the outnumbering side, the side that had constant people joining the fight. It was ruining my roaming experience where it was 2 of us (for example) against many, as soon as my team mate went down and another enemy joined the fight, instant stomp then i can't handle the fight alone. In zerging, players drop a utility to have a ress to increase their group sustain, there are already ways to counter the ress via CCs on the person ressing or casting a ress skill, or knocking enemy downs away or even warrior elite banner if a warrior ran banner (most likely not) or just straight up high dmg before ress/ poison on downs. There are many active ways to counter it, but people would rather not actively play their class and just wait on mount for 10mins till someone comes along and carries with dps and makes downs?

[Donschusta.8529]

Siege only useful now to throw it on dead enemies :pepeadmire: no more hiding in sieged towers and way easier to get in

[Sovereign.1093]

Now we need that pve pk instance :)

[Aeolus.3615]

@Zenris.8637 said:

@ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:The Warclaw changes are actually a blessing to small scale and roamers. You can now get rezzed when outnumbered without having to worry about SlowJoe, that lagged behind the blob and shows up, just in time to stomp and seal the deal.

The Warclaw is very helpful for small scale roamers like myself to take on bigger groups with the ability to stomp whilst mounted...

Warclaw still works but now its 1 target if i recal?

Overall changes are dencent some i dont get it, like the upkeep that makes rev gain no energy geting nerfed(wich is super heavy in E-management).

@"mixxed.5862"IDK what to think about that :\, but before this siege update everything outside the core group i tend to play(or even some of them) were melting like and icecream on the oven, to the ac's and siege, we always putted that "kinda into players fault" more than sige being bit to strong.

With the amount of scourges now and barrier AC's will be useless.Should barrier be nerfed as well? i dont think so but ill leave the question in the air, what other options we have if players "become imortal" due the amount of FB and scourges, m8 end no matter how much ac's enemy enemy has, the block n barrier drop 5 rams and gates will melt?

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:The Warclaw changes are actually a blessing to small scale and roamers. You can now get rezzed when outnumbered without having to worry about SlowJoe, that lagged behind the blob and shows up, just in time to stomp and seal the deal.Too bad it's the outnumbering zergling that's downed and being ressed when the slowjoe roamer comes just in time to stomp and seal the deal... no more.

Sorry, but that's like trying to explain to someone when it is appropriate to beat your spouse/partner. The mount stop isn't good when you're outnumbered and then bad when you're the larger force. The mount stomp was always toxic: effortless, skilless, zero risk and high reward.

You've been playing long enough to know what you're getting into when you click on the WvW icon. You choose to play in a small group, you know what the means. If you don't like how that plays out against larger groups, then join a larger group. OR you can just continue to complain into the wind where nobody is listening or taking it seriously. It is what it is, and you choose how you deal with it. /shrug

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Zenris.8637 said:

@ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:The Warclaw changes are actually a blessing to small scale and roamers. You can now get rezzed when outnumbered without having to worry about SlowJoe, that lagged behind the blob and shows up, just in time to stomp and seal the deal.

The Warclaw is very helpful for small scale roamers like myself to take on bigger groups with the ability to stomp whilst mounted...

Warclaw still works but now its 1 target if i recal?

Mount ‘stomp’ has been removed. It is a 20% buff in damage to downed players.

All of it’s damage now with the ounce skill is One target only.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Sovereign.1093 said:Now we need that pve pk instance :)

Good news, we're getting there with making WvW more and more like the EotM K-Train.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Zenris.8637 said:

@ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:The Warclaw changes are actually a blessing to small scale and roamers. You can now get rezzed when outnumbered without having to worry about SlowJoe, that lagged behind the blob and shows up, just in time to stomp and seal the deal.

The Warclaw is very helpful for small scale roamers like myself to take on bigger groups with the ability to stomp whilst mounted...

Warclaw still works but now its 1 target if i recal?

Mount ‘stomp’ has been removed. It is a 20% buff in damage to downed players.

All of it’s damage now with the ounce skill is One target only.

Oh ok, tks for correction, i had the impression i was insta killing downed players yesterday, but just 1 target per pound, so i tough they reduced form 3 targets to 1.

[XenesisII.1540]

@Mil.3562 said:OP, a more realistic title would be :PATCH NOTES UP JULY 7TH, WVW NERFS.

As expected, every patch is 90% nerfs, 10% changes. And 90% of those changes are either unnecessary or useless.

Once again, the ignorant NERF TEAM strikes!

Changed it for you!

[Sugar Min.5834]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@Mil.3562 said:OP, a more realistic title would be :PATCH NOTES UP JULY 7TH, WVW

NERFS

.

As expected, every patch is 90% nerfs, 10% changes. And 90% of those changes are either unnecessary or useless.

Once again, the ignorant NERF TEAM strikes!

Changed it for you!

Oh thank you ^^ I gave you a Thumbs Up :D

[Jski.6180]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:The wvw updates seem good for the wvw only tools. Its a bit different for scorges and scorge alone but that can be fixed.

I think "WVW and wvw only effects" this was realty good update and a good indicator anet willing to push player combat.

Or more likely it's that they want more ktrains running. Check, we can stop the shoutouts since there is no longer any defending. Go ahead and remove all the servers, we are in a good spot to just divide people up into green-blue-red as they long into WvW.

Next patch notes:

• New bot tags added that will appear and just move from structure to structure around the map. Players not within 2000 units will be kicked from game mode, the same will occur to players staying in a structure for more than 10 seconds. Each sides' tag will move in a clockwise motion to ensure no player overlapping from the three groups. If you are spawning in, just wait for the next bot rotation to come back to your spawn.

I do not understand if you have more ppl you can build more siege. You simply should not be able to hold something forever just because you have a "blob" level of sieges.

Players will play the way they want to if they wish to blob during times when other teams have fewier ppl then so be it. But if your world is in such a state then maybe its time to move to a more populated fights world. You will not see during "prim time" wvw on worlds that are more populated by fight guilds and but more population.

[Klypto.1703]

@Faenar.8036 said:EotM vol.2 strikes back! K-train, especially on outnumbered maps, is encouraged now, no counter against it. Welcome to the world of WvW.

The game is pretty much over when they make a wvw map for pve that is how bad it is so pretty much wvw is now in drizzlewood coast. Just need some gvg hosted maps to fight the dominion now for speed clears.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@"Jski.6180" said:I do not understand if you have more ppl you can build more siege. You simply should not be able to hold something forever just because you have a "blob" level of sieges.

Players will play the way they want to if they wish to blob during times when other teams have fewier ppl then so be it. But if your world is in such a state then maybe its time to move to a more populated fights world. You will not see during "prim time" wvw on worlds that are more populated by fight guilds and but more population.

I am coming at this from the point of view of a havoc trying to slow a zerg to allow for reinforcements to make it in bound. In the past a havoc could at least slow an enemy zerg down but the more they nerf defending there is no reason to try that tactic at all. So the new rule is if there is a force on map so be it, but if not, don't even call it out, there is no point. And for any roamers or havocs that tried to defend and do shoutouts, don't bother, just attack them elsewhere and get out of the way of the zerg. So in effect this will create less fighting and more what people will call ganking. So to the zerglings out there, don't trail behind because you are all the more fishies.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:I am coming at this from the point of view of a havoc trying to slow a zerg to allow for reinforcements to make it in bound. In the past a havoc could at least slow an enemy zerg down but the more they nerf defending there is no reason to try that tactic at all. So the new rule is if there is a force on map so be it, but if not, don't even call it out, there is no point. And for any roamers or havocs that tried to defend and do shoutouts, don't bother, just attack them elsewhere and get out of the way of the zerg. So in effect this will create less fighting and more what people will call ganking. So to the zerglings out there, don't trail behind because you are all the more fishies.Wait, what are you trying to say? That a 20% dmg nerf to siege stops you from playing a havoc playstyle around towers and stuff?

[Svarty.8019]

I'm sure the gankers will find something to whine about soon, I can't wait to see what it is! I'm all giddy inside, it's like waiting for Christmas! WooohoooO!

I bet there's no WvW livestream this week. The developers always hide when there's discontent on the forum.

[phreeak.1023]

Great patch for Karma Commanders. Now their uncoordinated zergs cant die while the ktrain :lol:

[MichaelArchangel.7251]

Agree. The nerf to seige made them even more useless. Zergs already shrugged off multi ac's like water off a duck's back. With this.... they won't even have to pretend to care. This July Update really has me wondering what the devs were thinking.

Unless the little blurb about a revision to scourge is true....

[MichaelArchangel.7251]

@mixxed.5862 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:The biggest imbalance problem in WvW are numbers, that being the amount of people one server group can muster at any given time versus their competitors. Servers that are always outnumbered generally can not compete .

The only side that a nerf to ACS and siege helps is the side with greater numbers. When AOE spells can be dumped on walls above and do more damage then those people above can do with ACS or cannons then this just more "he who gets there with the mostest" wins.

Given alliances seems to be a pipe dream and years off IF it ever occurs, this nerf to siege was ill timed.

There really is no point to people on an outnumbered server going out to fight the blob so what they generally did was try and defend what they could with thier smaller numbers while using siege to help equalize. What this nerf does is basically tell the outnumbered servers "There no point in going out and fighting those blobs when outnumbered 2 to 1 and now there no point in trying to defend an objective".

Bad move.

Healing overall was reduced by about 33% in the february patch. This change was meant to bring siege back in line with that. In my opinion it was necessary.

lol.... Funny. I see zergs shrugging off siege like they're nerf darts all the time.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:I am coming at this from the point of view of a havoc trying to slow a zerg to allow for reinforcements to make it in bound. In the past a havoc could at least slow an enemy zerg down but the more they nerf defending there is no reason to try that tactic at all. So the new rule is if there is a force on map so be it, but if not, don't even call it out, there is no point. And for any roamers or havocs that tried to defend and do shoutouts, don't bother, just attack them elsewhere and get out of the way of the zerg. So in effect this will create less fighting and more what people will call ganking. So to the zerglings out there, don't trail behind because you are all the more fishies.Wait, what are you trying to say? That a 20% dmg nerf to siege stops you from playing a havoc playstyle around towers and stuff?

I am saying that on top of all the other cuts to defense that have occurred over time that yeah we are pretty much at a point that I wouldn't recommend any havoc to stand and die to slow down a zerg allowing your side's zerg to get there to save it. Before I would have said it is part of havoc to slow with some siege even if it meant a long run back after you got run over. We just keep getting more and more reason to not defend which means more ktrains and ganking. And no it doesn't mean there's no playstyle for a havoc around a tower, but it does mean less reason to stand and fight when talking havoc vs zerg.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@MichaelArchangel.7251 said:

@mixxed.5862 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:The biggest imbalance problem in WvW are numbers, that being the amount of people one server group can muster at any given time versus their competitors. Servers that are always outnumbered generally can not compete .

The only side that a nerf to ACS and siege helps is the side with greater numbers. When AOE spells can be dumped on walls above and do more damage then those people above can do with ACS or cannons then this just more "he who gets there with the mostest" wins.

Given alliances seems to be a pipe dream and years off IF it ever occurs, this nerf to siege was ill timed.

There really is no point to people on an outnumbered server going out to fight the blob so what they generally did was try and defend what they could with thier smaller numbers while using siege to help equalize. What this nerf does is basically tell the outnumbered servers "There no point in going out and fighting those blobs when outnumbered 2 to 1 and now there no point in trying to defend an objective".

Bad move.

Healing overall was reduced by about 33% in the february patch. This change was meant to bring siege back in line with that. In my opinion it was necessary.

lol.... Funny. I see zergs shrugging off siege like they're nerf darts all the time.

Same. This has got to be a zerker issue. Prior to 3 nerfs ago you could stand under AC fire if you weren't in zerker. The next argument that will appear is people should come out to fight, guess what that's what defending was, as well as a magnet to create an even larger fight by giving time for people to respond to the attack. And the whole argument you deserve to lose it if people aren't there....sure its such fun to wait for a fight and the rewards to just standing there are fabulous...oh wait.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Svarty.8019 said:I'm sure the gankers will find something to whine about soon, I can't wait to see what it is! I'm all giddy inside, it's like waiting for Christmas! WooohoooO!

I bet there's no WvW livestream this week. The developers always hide when there's discontent on the forum.

I think as less people defend they will move to hunting the zerg stragglers so I would expect more people complaining that they were ganked, but that the otherside of not defending. One of those your best defense is to go offense.

[mixxed.5862]

@MichaelArchangel.7251 said:

@mixxed.5862 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:The biggest imbalance problem in WvW are numbers, that being the amount of people one server group can muster at any given time versus their competitors. Servers that are always outnumbered generally can not compete .

The only side that a nerf to ACS and siege helps is the side with greater numbers. When AOE spells can be dumped on walls above and do more damage then those people above can do with ACS or cannons then this just more "he who gets there with the mostest" wins.

Given alliances seems to be a pipe dream and years off IF it ever occurs, this nerf to siege was ill timed.

There really is no point to people on an outnumbered server going out to fight the blob so what they generally did was try and defend what they could with thier smaller numbers while using siege to help equalize. What this nerf does is basically tell the outnumbered servers "There no point in going out and fighting those blobs when outnumbered 2 to 1 and now there no point in trying to defend an objective".

Bad move.

Healing overall was reduced by about 33% in the february patch. This change was meant to bring siege back in line with that. In my opinion it was necessary.

lol.... Funny. I see zergs shrugging off siege like they're nerf darts all the time.

Well, you're not supposed to defend an objective with just 5 people sitting on arrow carts hitting 111111. Arrow carts are still a very welcome boon to any defending team. That's the correct balance.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:I am coming at this from the point of view of a havoc trying to slow a zerg to allow for reinforcements to make it in bound. In the past a havoc could at least slow an enemy zerg down but the more they nerf defending there is no reason to try that tactic at all. So the new rule is if there is a force on map so be it, but if not, don't even call it out, there is no point. And for any roamers or havocs that tried to defend and do shoutouts, don't bother, just attack them elsewhere and get out of the way of the zerg. So in effect this will create less fighting and more what people will call ganking. So to the zerglings out there, don't trail behind because you are all the more fishies.Wait, what are you trying to say? That a 20% dmg nerf to siege stops you from playing a havoc playstyle around towers and stuff?

I am saying that on top of all the other cuts to defense that have occurred over time that yeah we are pretty much at a point that I wouldn't recommend any havoc to stand and die to slow down a zerg allowing your side's zerg to get there to save it. Before I would have said it is part of havoc to slow with some siege even if it meant a long run back after you got run over. We just keep getting more and more reason to not defend which means more ktrains and ganking. And no it doesn't mean there's no playstyle for a havoc around a tower, but it does mean less reason to stand and fight when talking havoc vs zerg.Thanks for clearing that up. I would say that there is far more merit to that overarching discussion. I find the siege stuff to be pretty irrelevant for anyone that isn't completely dependent upon it and in my book those people aren't really havoc, roamers or whatever. However, the overarching discussion (which for me has nothing to do with siege) is fair, correct and pretty interesting. However that is also just a reflection of the game mode as a whole.

Regardless of what you like to do in the WvW sandbox these days, the content for everyone is dwindling. It's not like, for example, big zerg enthusiasts are given more really. They just have more momentum to be dissuaded from. I've spoken about that quite often, that the content (and affected players/guilds) that were the first to disappear were those that were involved with more varied content that was more dependent on the health of the game mode. When things are bad it is easier for things like BvB/trains, clouding, ganking and GvG to survive. However, none of the whatever preferred playstyles are thriving.

It is just harder to motivate things like defending, havocing or roaming as playstyles when the mode isn't healthy. Like I said though, for me that has nothing to do with siege and everything to do with things like scoring and populations since defending or havocing is more dependent upon people caring about score and roaming or the more weight-punching side of havocing is more dependent on diversity of group-sizes and playstyles to find matching content.

Obviously, your experience of that can differ based on region, tier and stuff but I would go as far as to say that the trends are rather universal even if the results may appear at different times.