JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 @lodjur.1284 said:... everyone having more or less equal out of combat mobilityExcept for those that actually want to engage in combat. They added the spear on Warclaw for a reason, because prior people would just YEET away for eternity until they reach their allied zerg or until the enemy just leaves you alone because its not worth traveling across the entire map just to engage with you when you decide you want to dismount your warclaw. Again picking and choosing fights via the warclaw killed roaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@lodjur.1284 said:... everyone having more or less equal out of combat mobilityExcept for those that actually want to engage in combat. They added the spear on Warclaw for a reason, because prior people would just YEET away for eternity until they reach their allied zerg or until the enemy just leaves you alone because its not worth traveling across the entire map just to engage with you when you decide you want to dismount your warclaw. Again picking and choosing fights via the warclaw killed roaming.Spear was a good addition.Picking and choosing fights is what thieves always have done. Warclaw didn't make the situation notably worse it just leveled the playing field a bit.I mean it's especially funny that you claims it kills something I doubt you even engage in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 @"lodjur.1284" said:I mean it's especially funny that you claims it kills something I doubt you even engage in.I've solo-roaming for years, on the slowest class in the game (Necromancer)...so go head and use thief as your scapegoat, and then personally attack me rather than attacking the argument...sounds like you need to address your own "level of salt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 How did this turn from dragon banner to mounts?Good change to banners imo tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@lodjur.1284 said:... everyone having more or less equal out of combat mobilityExcept for those that actually want to engage in combat. They added the spear on Warclaw for a reason, because prior people would just YEET away for eternity until they reach their allied zerg or until the enemy just leaves you alone because its not worth traveling across the entire map just to engage with you when you decide you want to dismount your warclaw. Again picking and choosing fights via the warclaw killed roaming.Before warclaw there was still the same picking and choosing fights, you were just forced to run one of the handful of builds (mainly thief) that had that luxory otherwise you were just food for gank squads. Now more classes/builds are viable for roaming as everyone has comparable ability to avoid gankers rather than a select few. I guess people are salty about a luxory they have enjoyed for years being granted to other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@"lodjur.1284" said:I mean it's especially funny that you claims it kills something I doubt you even engage in.I've solo-roaming for years, on the slowest class in the game (Necromancer)...so go head and use thief as your scapegoat, and then personally attack me rather than attacking the argument...sounds like you need to address your own "level of salt"Doubt.Also I did both you're the one that can't stick to a subject and posts unrelated salt about how mounts hurt your supposed solo roaming.Never had anything actually worth fighting run away from me on a warclaw, before or after the change. That I don't get to refresh my participation/get 5 stacks is a small price to pay to have to run less to where there might actually be real content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 @ArthurDent.9538 said:@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@lodjur.1284 said:... everyone having more or less equal out of combat mobilityExcept for those that actually want to engage in combat. They added the spear on Warclaw for a reason, because prior people would just YEET away for eternity until they reach their allied zerg or until the enemy just leaves you alone because its not worth traveling across the entire map just to engage with you when you decide you want to dismount your warclaw. Again picking and choosing fights via the warclaw killed roaming.Before warclaw there was still the same picking and choosing fights, you were just forced to run one of the handful of builds (mainly thief) that had that luxory otherwise you were just food for gank squads. Now more classes/builds are viable for roaming as everyone has comparable ability to avoid gankers rather than a select few. I guess people are salty about a luxory they have enjoyed for years being granted to other classes.Actually, it's not about the luxury being granted to other classes, it's the opposite. If you are against the same players that form your gank squads they can now have 2-3 attack you while the others keep you in combat with warclaw and spear, so mobility is now entirely irrelevant if you try solo roaming no matter your class. That's why some people say it killed roaming, as now everyone gets ganked if the enemies have half a brain. @lodjur.1284 said:Never had anything actually worth fighting run away from me on a warclawAlso this. This is why I don't have a problem personally, as most that run are generally not worth chasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Also this. This is why I don't have a problem personally, as most that run are generally not worth chasing. Except those that run past you are heading to the zerg to reinforce them, so the zerg continues their attack on your base,And in another instance, you don't even know if the players running past you on mounts aren't worth chasing...there's no way to actually know until you fight them and either beat them or lose.Mainly what you and @"lodjur.1284" are really referring to here is about is fighting "worthy opponents" because the assumption is that two players who want to fight will mutually agree to dismount. This is just 1v1 and if you just wanted to 1v1 you could have just gone to a pvp server and 1v1.If you actually wanted to roam you would be in the thick of all types of encounters that are inherently unpredictable including 1v1's but also 1v3's being outmanned (getting ganked), to 3v1 ganking people, to small scale skirmishes, even ending up in the thick of large scale battles...all of those things are part of roaming. if you want a 1v1 simulator go to a 1v1 duel arena that's way faster than running around on a mount to find other players to duel.Not speaking directly to you just addressing your point.Also personally, before i quit roaming, at least 75% if not more of people that were traversing would almost always bypass me. I had nights where i found nobody to fight because nobody was willing to dismount their warclaws unless it was them and 50 of their buddies there...which i also just mount my warclaw and ran away from all 50 of them because the mounts allowed me to do just that.Like I said it killed roaming and all that's left are the gankers because all the good duelers and real roamers like myself have long since left the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@archmagus.7249 said:@Tiagoht.7549 said:Next change based on the cry of the players: removing the only feature released for wvw in the last 10 years. The warclawSure. PvE gets mounts and WvWers complain about not having a mount, and now that you have a mount you want it removed? Next you're going to say that we shouldn't have gliding. Mounts were one of the worst changes to the game mode. It killed roaming. Roaming isn't really dead, so mounts couldn't and didn't kill it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Also this. This is why I don't have a problem personally, as most that run are generally not worth chasing. Except those that run past you are heading to the zerg to reinforce them, so the zerg continues their attack on your base,And in another instance, you don't even know if the players running past you on mounts aren't worth chasing...there's no way to actually know until you fight them and either beat them or lose.Actually it's easy to tell, if you've actually roamed you would know that you can just look at a combination of their class/spec/buffs to gauge. Obviously not always, but in a vast majority of cases. Anyone whose roamed a significant amount would be able to do this.Mainly what you and @"lodjur.1284" are really referring to here is about is fighting "worthy opponents" because the assumption is that two players who want to fight will mutually agree to dismount. This is just 1v1 and if you just wanted to 1v1 you could have just gone to a pvp server and 1v1.I mean that if the only thing 1 player does is run away from me, then fighting them is probably a 10 sec affair that amounts to me getting 5 stacks. Most of the time I can just lance them or get ahead of them and kill their mount with my actual character skills as they don't have that much hp.If you actually wanted to roam you would be in the thick of all types of encounters that are inherently unpredictable including 1v1's but also 1v3's being outmanned (getting ganked), to 3v1 ganking people, to small scale skirmishes, even ending up in the thick of large scale battles...all of those things are part of roaming. if you want a 1v1 simulator go to a 1v1 duel arena that's way faster than running around on a mount to find other players to duel.I specifically search out 1v3s (tbf more commonly 2v6 or w/e), even number fights are rarely interesting (usually the skill gap is too wide or it just comes down to what build counters what), outnumbering is just snoozeworthy.Not speaking directly to you just addressing your point.Also personally, before i quit roaming, at least 75% if not more of people that were traversing would almost always bypass me. I had nights where i found nobody to fight because nobody was willing to dismount their warclaws unless it was them and 50 of their buddies there...which i also just mount my warclaw and ran away from all 50 of them because the mounts allowed me to do just that.Sounds like you couldn't adapt.Like I said it killed roaming and all that's left are the gankers because all the good duelers and real roamers like myself have long since left the roaming scene." all the good duelers and real roamers like myself have long since left the roaming scene."I am speechless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Yep. That's literally our update for the quarter. A sideways nerf to banner utility. They didn't even touch the banners themselves.Back to the grind, fellows. See you next update when ambient creatures near capturable objectives have their health reduced by 33%. ;p~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @lodjur.1284 said:Sounds like you couldn't adapt.You mean adapting to a game mode where there's no-one to fight anymore? I adapted by playing something else, that wasn't 3+ hours of nobody wanting to fight.After I quit roaming and went to GvG because that's where people were fighting (mounts = more zergs, less roamers). GvG ended up dying eventually too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@lodjur.1284 said:Sounds like you couldn't adapt.You mean adapting to a game mode where there's no-one to fight anymore? I adapted by playing something else, that wasn't 3+ hours of nobody wanting to fight.Yet I find fights everytime I solo roam, more since mounts got added even, sounds like lack of adapting to me.After I quit roaming and went to GvG because that's where people were fighting (mounts = more zergs, less roamers). GvG ended up dying eventually too.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikharzeeh.8016 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 acutally a good change, took long time. did not expect it, but still nice to have. with this now, they should not have nerfed the banner-damage tho...thing is, now it would be time for new content finally. like, there is not even any option to choose in 90% of the tactics-slots. nerfing stuff to avoid too broken stuff is nice sometimes, just if you carve the pumpkin too much, it becomes orange-size and won't be even big enough to contain a candle to light inside ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Also this. This is why I don't have a problem personally, as most that run are generally not worth chasing. Except those that run past you are heading to the zerg to reinforce them, so the zerg continues their attack on your base,And in another instance, you don't even know if the players running past you on mounts aren't worth chasing...there's no way to actually know until you fight them and either beat them or lose.Mainly what you and @"lodjur.1284" are really referring to here is about is fighting "worthy opponents" because the assumption is that two players who want to fight will mutually agree to dismount. This is just 1v1 and if you just wanted to 1v1 you could have just gone to a pvp server and 1v1.If you actually wanted to roam you would be in the thick of all types of encounters that are inherently unpredictable including 1v1's but also 1v3's being outmanned (getting ganked), to 3v1 ganking people, to small scale skirmishes, even ending up in the thick of large scale battles...all of those things are part of roaming. if you want a 1v1 simulator go to a 1v1 duel arena that's way faster than running around on a mount to find other players to duel.Not speaking directly to you just addressing your point.Also personally, before i quit roaming, at least 75% if not more of people that were traversing would almost always bypass me. I had nights where i found nobody to fight because nobody was willing to dismount their warclaws unless it was them and 50 of their buddies there...which i also just mount my warclaw and ran away from all 50 of them because the mounts allowed me to do just that.Like I said it killed roaming and all that's left are the gankers because all the good duelers and real roamers like myself have long since left the scene.I didn't say or mean to imply that I only look for 1v1s, I will take on whatever comes when roaming because that's what I find fun. When I say it's not worth chasing people that run past you I mean that I've never really had an issue finding fights as long as there is an objective to fight over, be it a camp or a keep, that way the fight will come to you. If they choose to run past me and ignore the camp that I took or the tower that I hid in and am capping, they didn't want the fight and I have better things to do. I don't really care what they are running to attack because if I did, I'd probably be playing a group build on tag and not be on my thief. So yeah, it's not worth chasing people that run away on mounts because there's no point chasing after fights that will come to you on their own. As for your last point, it's interesting how you say roaming is about adapting to whatever fight you find in one breath, then go on to say that most real roamers have left the scene because they failed to adapt to how things changed with warclaw. Looks like it wasn't me that was looking for a specific type of fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Great change. I'm a little sorry for those Dragon Banner mains that have to remember how their own class skills work, but it's a small price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:I didn't say or mean to imply that I only look for 1v1s, I will take on whatever comes when roaming because that's what I find fun. When I say it's not worth chasing people that run past you I mean that I've never really had an issue finding fights as long as there is an objective to fight over, be it a camp or a keep, that way the fight will come to you. If they choose to run past me and ignore the camp that I took or the tower that I hid in and am capping, they didn't want the fight and I have better things to do. I don't really care what they are running to attack because if I did, I'd probably be playing a group build on tag and not be on my thief. So yeah, it's not worth chasing people that run away on mounts because there's no point chasing after fights that will come to you on their own. I think you misunderstood what was said. Iodjur was talking about "worthy opponents" and equated that worthy opponents would be the ones who wouldn't fly away on their mounts. What you are talking about is about whether its worth chasing anyone on a mount all over the map just to find fights (not just worthy opponents)...that's what I'm saying and what my point is (where we would be in agreement)...its not worth chasing people around the map to just to find fights., and its not always known if the ones that fly away on the mount are actually worthy opponents until you actually fight them.As for your last point, it's interesting how you say roaming is about adapting to whatever fight you find in one breath, then go on to say that most real roamers have left the scene because they failed to adapt to how things changed with warclaw. Looks like it wasn't me that was looking for a specific type of fight. Uhh no i never said this...good roamers didn't fail to adapt...good roamers quit because its boring...and also its not fun when all encounters are 20+v1 mount pounce fests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menzo.2185 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The worst SHITTY idea EVER!!!!! The banners are in the game since day one. Stop whining and trolling Anet if this dumb issues. Banners are fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 It's a good change.Now if we could just fix the classes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 There's your Q4 2020 WvW patch ! ;) @"Menzo.2185" said:The worst kitten idea EVER!!!!! The banners are in the game since day one. Stop whining and trolling Anet if this dumb issues. Banners are fun.I hope this is sarcasm, tactivators did not exist "day one" and it costed gold to upgrade structures and repair armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@KrHome.1920 said:Thief and ranger killed roaming and they are still there. thief and ranger have existed since the beginning of the game...they didn't kill roaming.Mounting up means being able to pick and choose the battles you wantto fight. so just like thieves and mesmers?Since you can just mounts-go-brrrr your way through enemies, there's no agency...people just avoid fights they think they can't win and in turn more players end up choosing more favorable fights = more zerging less roaming.so just like thieves and mesmers? Who just stealth up and wait for the opportune moment to jump an unexpecting victim?Every time I go wvw, I see plenty of roamers. Ok, mostly thieves and rangers... Maybe you are just on the wrong servers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @Menzo.2185 said:The worst kitten idea EVER!!!!! The banners are in the game since day one. Stop whining and trolling Anet if this dumb issues. Banners are fun. Found Banner main #2.Being used in your own area allows it to be used for defense of a structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 @archmagus.7249 said:@Tiagoht.7549 said:Next change based on the cry of the players: removing the only feature released for wvw in the last 10 years. The warclawSure. PvE gets mounts and WvWers complain about not having a mount, and now that you have a mount you want it removed? Next you're going to say that we shouldn't have gliding. I never saw one post that asked for mounts in WvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 @archmagus.7249 said:@Tiagoht.7549 said:Next change based on the cry of the players: removing the only feature released for wvw in the last 10 years. The warclawSure. PvE gets mounts and WvWers complain about not having a mount, and now that you have a mount you want it removed? Next you're going to say that we shouldn't have gliding. Who? Who was doing this complaining? Link a post please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 @archmagus.7249 said:@Tiagoht.7549 said:Next change based on the cry of the players: removing the only feature released for wvw in the last 10 years. The warclawSure. PvE gets mounts and WvWers complain about not having a mount, and now that you have a mount you want it removed? Next you're going to say that we shouldn't have gliding. Indeed, gliding in its current form is very badly implemented due to the incombat movement speed and safety it gives compared to attackers.So following should be done to gliding:Can't be activated in combatIf that is unreasonable, then at least the speed should be cut down within combat.No more wall/high ground camping with 100% safety even if enemy is right next to your face please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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