What's with all these "run away while spamming mortar" engis?

[schloumou.3982]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Grenades are broken yes, but I've never taken anyone that uses Mortar Kit seriously.

It's quite strong. Just not like most peops use it in wvw. Its a great utility pick with the pulsing blinds of flash shell, waterfield, poisen for down control etc.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@schloumou.3982 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Grenades are broken yes, but I've never taken anyone that uses Mortar Kit seriously.

It's quite strong. Just not like most peops use it in wvw. Its a great utility pick with the pulsing blinds of flash shell, waterfield, poisen for down control etc.

Yea, it's more that the people usually use it to pew pew and not use it for the fields.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Jski.6180" said:Eng is in a very "OP" place right now i am not sure why anet allowed this to last as long as it has.

Because unless you're called ele...you get to be OP/broken for years.....oh by the way @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 plays an engi too so....

[Jski.6180]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Eng is in a very "OP" place right now i am not sure why anet allowed this to last as long as it has.

Because unless you're called ele...you get to be OP/broken for years.....oh by the way @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" plays an engi too so....

I still do not understand this mind set why is it "ok" for classes to have karma tide to them when its the dev who make these choese not the player base.

[MiniMe.1960]

Didn't met a dangerous Engi for a very long time.

[Handin.4032]

@schloumou.3982 said:

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:Grenades are broken yes, but I've never taken anyone that uses Mortar Kit seriously.

It's quite strong. Just not like most peops use it in wvw. Its a great utility pick with the pulsing blinds of flash shell, waterfield, poisen for down control etc.

In large group fights, grenades lose a lot of their impact due to the "projectile hate" (e.g. bubbles, reflects, etc), except throwing them point blank at your feet. In smaller fights sure, it can be quite strong. For siege clearing - sure? But that's nothing other professions haven't been able to do, and is moreso an issue with how silly "walls" are in WvW for defense.

If you die to an engi spamming mortar while it's running away, it's kind of your fault. The mortars don't move exceptionally fast and they show an AoE ring... so I'm not sure if you're standing still or running in a straight line to get to them? Not saying it's entirely a l2p issue, but if they're running away and you pursue, don't go in a perfectly straight line, or just don't pursue them.

[Spartacus.3192]

ive been playing holo about 90% of the time since last summer and i switch to mortar kit only when i'm at the edges of a zerg so i can freecast from range and tag bags. I never use mortar kit while roaming. Supply Crate is just waaaaay too good to give up. Anyone who sees you shoot a mortar shell can avoid it. Its useful only for tagging bodies in a big blob fight.

[solemn.9608]

Hello, uncatchable mortar Zephyrite rune elixir near-perma-superspeed engi build player hereThe real issue imo is grenades; it's like anet's nerf actually made them stronger. Seriously. Before patch it wasn't a huge issue in WvW, post-patch it seems like grenades can 3-hit through a modest amount of toughness which is ridiculous.

Mortar damage seems fine and if they're playing extremely defensively/running away constantly then just don't bother, they're too scared to duel.

[Clownmug.8357]

@"solemn.9608" said:Hello, uncatchable mortar Zephyrite rune elixir near-perma-superspeed engi build player hereThe real issue imo is grenades; it's like anet's nerf actually made them stronger. Seriously. Before patch it wasn't a huge issue in WvW, post-patch it seems like grenades can 3-hit through a modest amount of toughness which is ridiculous.

Mortar damage seems fine and if they're playing extremely defensively/running away constantly then just don't bother, they're too scared to duel.

If you're talking about the Feb. 2020 patch it's probably because they randomly added this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Entrance

[knite.1542]

@Dawdler.8521

Not exactly related to the OP, but what is a combo whombo weaver.?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@knite.1542 said:@Dawdler.8521

Not exactly related to the OP, but what is a combo whombo weaver.?

I'd imagine our colleague refers to sword/dagger weaver duelists who deal some pretty nasty bursts (if you are standing still). Not very sure on combos' exact meaning as most eles (I also play ele) run fresh air for spike damage.

[Spartacus.3192]

@solemn.9608 said:Hello, uncatchable mortar Zephyrite rune elixir near-perma-superspeed engi build player hereThe real issue imo is grenades; it's like anet's nerf actually made them stronger. Seriously. Before patch it wasn't a huge issue in WvW, post-patch it seems like grenades can 3-hit through a modest amount of toughness which is ridiculous.

Mortar damage seems fine and if they're playing extremely defensively/running away constantly then just don't bother, they're too scared to duel.

grenades have not been buffed since the big change to explosive entrance in Feb 2020 patch. So not sure what you mean. The grenade nerf was in PVP only. In wvw its the same as its been since Feb 2020. And yes they are very strong in WvW.

[Kovu.7560]

I'm confused. You can literally take a break to make a sandwich and still return in time to walk away from an incoming engi mortar shell. It has to be one of the slowest projectiles in the game.

Now instant-drop-from-stealth AoE meme nades on the other hand... (Not that its any worse than the cheese rangers, thieves and shatter mesmers pull.)

~ Kovu

[schloumou.3982]

@Handin.4032 said:

@schloumou.3982 said:

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:Grenades are broken yes, but I've never taken anyone that uses Mortar Kit seriously.

It's quite strong. Just not like most peops use it in wvw. Its a great utility pick with the pulsing blinds of flash shell, waterfield, poisen for down control etc.

In large group fights, grenades lose a lot of their impact due to the "projectile hate" (e.g. bubbles, reflects, etc), except throwing them point blank at your feet. In smaller fights sure, it can be quite strong. For siege clearing - sure? But that's nothing other professions haven't been able to do, and is moreso an issue with how silly "walls" are in WvW for defense.

If you die to an engi spamming mortar while it's running away, it's kind of your fault. The mortars don't move exceptionally fast and they show an AoE ring... so I'm not sure if you're standing still or running in a straight line to get to them? Not saying it's entirely a l2p issue, but if they're running away and you pursue, don't go in a perfectly straight line, or just don't pursue them.

No idea why you quote me tbh. Nothing you wrote has anything to do with what i said.

[Handin.4032]

@schloumou.3982 said:No idea why you quote me tbh. Nothing you wrote has anything to do with what i said.

Oh, I think it was just because I was following up on what you were saying. I think - I cannot remember exactly!

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Kovu.7560 said:I'm confused. You can literally take a break to make a sandwich and still return in time to walk away from an incoming engi mortar shell. It has to be one of the slowest projectiles in the game.

Now instant-drop-from-stealth AoE meme nades on the other hand... (Not that its any worse than the cheese rangers, thieves and shatter mesmers pull.)

~ Kovu

It is slow but the fire rate is pretty quick, especially with quickness huehue. Once I stood on top of a wall and throw siege disabler so the people saw I was there, might of been the angle but they didn't dodge the mortar shots and by the time they did, the 3rd landed and the aa does up to 4k on squishy target

[Strider.7849]

@solemn.9608 said:Hello, uncatchable mortar Zephyrite rune elixir near-perma-superspeed engi build player hereThe real issue imo is grenades; it's like anet's nerf actually made them stronger. Seriously. Before patch it wasn't a huge issue in WvW, post-patch it seems like grenades can 3-hit through a modest amount of toughness which is ridiculous.

Mortar damage seems fine and if they're playing extremely defensively/running away constantly then just don't bother, they're too scared to duel.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember when I read those patch notes on release - they ONLY nerfed the grenades in sPvP. In game, I have still been getting 1 shotted by the toolbelt skill. I've had many fights where I'll be outplaying the opponent, have them low on health while I'm still at 90%~ and while in melee I get just 1 shotted from near max health. I check the log and it was just grenades critting for 3k~ per.

[MedievalThings.5417]

@Strider.7849 said:

@solemn.9608 said:Hello, uncatchable mortar Zephyrite rune elixir near-perma-superspeed engi build player hereThe real issue imo is grenades; it's like anet's nerf actually made them stronger. Seriously. Before patch it wasn't a huge issue in WvW, post-patch it seems like grenades can 3-hit through a modest amount of toughness which is ridiculous.

Mortar damage seems fine and if they're playing extremely defensively/running away constantly then just don't bother, they're too scared to duel.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember when I read those patch notes on release - they ONLY nerfed the grenades in sPvP. In game, I have still been getting 1 shotted by the toolbelt skill. I've had many fights where I'll be outplaying the opponent, have them low on health while I'm still at 90%~ and while in melee I get just 1 shotted from near max health. I check the log and it was just grenades critting for 3k~ per.

Check the charr elite too. The damage it does is ridiculous, and half the time, people have it macroed. That said, you really have to be standing still to get hit by all three grenades, even at point blank range. Hell, as an asura because of the height difference, most of the time you can't even get 2 grenades to hit a target standing on top of you. This still isn't anywhere near as broken as a lot of things Anet lets slide.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Strider.7849 said:

@solemn.9608 said:Hello, uncatchable mortar Zephyrite rune elixir near-perma-superspeed engi build player hereThe real issue imo is grenades; it's like anet's nerf actually made them stronger. Seriously. Before patch it wasn't a huge issue in WvW, post-patch it seems like grenades can 3-hit through a modest amount of toughness which is ridiculous.

Mortar damage seems fine and if they're playing extremely defensively/running away constantly then just don't bother, they're too scared to duel.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember when I read those patch notes on release - they ONLY nerfed the grenades in sPvP. In game, I have still been getting 1 shotted by the toolbelt skill. I've had many fights where I'll be outplaying the opponent, have them low on health while I'm still at 90%~ and while in melee I get just 1 shotted from near max health. I check the log and it was just grenades critting for 3k~ per.Well you can see the skill splits on the wiki...

The barrage damage isnt that spectacular compared to other high hitting skill. Sure it hits 6x if you stack in melee but in comparison the damage on a single arc divider is about 2.5x the damage of a single grenade, with 50% more power gain that hits in a radius around the warrior 2-4x wider .

As per usual the engineer has damage, its just far less practical than other classes.

[Helicity.3416]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The barrage damage isnt that spectacular compared to other high hitting skill.

Yeah... no.

[Dawdler.8521]

Yep looks exactly the same as other classes can do against glass. Just the other day a warrior hit me with decapitate for almost 10k damage... and that's on full trailblazer.

[Helicity.3416]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Yep looks exactly the same as other classes can do against glass. Just the other day a warrior hit me with decapitate for almost 10k damage... and that's on full trailblazer.

Almost 10k on three bars F1 Vs the same or more, at range, and then followed with a 7-9k rocket jump.

I know you're trying hard to downplay here, but nade engie hits harder than 7 malice Deadeye shot with no additional setup beyond "drink elixir B"

...and it's AoE.

It's deeeefinitely overtuned.

[Shroud.2307]

@Helicity.3416 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Yep looks exactly the same as other classes can do against glass. Just the other day a warrior hit me with decapitate for almost 10k damage... and that's on full trailblazer.

Almost 10k on three bars F1 Vs the same or more, at range, and then followed with a 7-9k rocket jump.

I know you're trying hard to downplay here, but nade engie hits harder than 7 malice Deadeye shot with no additional setup beyond "drink elixir B"

...and it's AoE.

It's deeeefinitely overtuned.

Grenade Barrage is busted in WvW, but there are a few things to think about here;

Grenade Kit in general is a kit with very little utility. It's basically damage and nothing else. That's not to say the kit is bad, just that other kits, even Bomb Kit, offer more versatility.

Grenade Barrage has a relatively long recharge if you're not using Tools. And because core Engineer is extremely uncommon (not just in WvW, but in general) most that are using Grenade Kit will be Scrapper or Holosmith meaning they're going to be using Explosives and not Tools. Alchemy is pretty well a guarantee in any build (though of course there may be outliers, but in that case they're a full YOLO build).

Grenade Barrage counts as a projectile meaning it can be reflected back at the Engineer, it has a moderate air time before it strikes, it doesn't have a lot of range, and it only hits particularly hard in melee range when all of them hit. If you happen to have an easy access Reflect, like Scrapper's hammer #2 Electro-Whirl for example, you can very easily redirect the barrage to the Engi.

I'm not defending Grenade Barrage because I agree it is broken in WvW, and it was nerfed in PvP for a reason. With that said, PvP and WvW are different environments and Grenade Barrage is a lot more oppressive on a node and on smaller maps. In WvW it isn't nearly as easy to reliably land on people and it often does more damage to you than you do to other players when using it in a zerg.

Although Holosmith and Scrapper are still strong specs, (not talking about support Scrapper in this case) much of their damage is reliant on Explosives which is why Grenade Kit is so common.

I just wanted to give you some info in case you're unfamiliar with Engineer, which judging by the OP, you are.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Shroud.2307 said:I'm not defending Grenade Barrage because I agree it is broken in WvW, and it was nerfed in PvP for a reason. With that said, PvP and WvW are different environments and Grenade Barrage is a lot more oppressive on a node and on smaller maps. In WvW it isn't nearly as easy to reliably land on people and it often does more damage to you than you do to other players when using it in a zerg.Not to mention, again, the damage. 133x6 in WvW for a total damage of 800 on a 25s recharge. Sounds alot. Well just a basic warrior throw axe has 300 damage. And you can throw it twice. And its on 12s recharge. And it increase damage 50-100% depending on enemy hp. And thats just the skill, we ignore class traits on both the engie and warrior.

Hell, ghastly claws has 1k damage on 10s cd! And it can do 50% more damage if the enemy has maxed voulnerability on them. That must be 5x as oppressive as oppressive or something, yet the necro is usually the first to die in smallscale...

[Helicity.3416]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:I'm not defending Grenade Barrage because I agree it is broken in WvW, and it was nerfed in PvP for a reason. With that said, PvP and WvW are different environments and Grenade Barrage is a lot more oppressive on a node and on smaller maps. In WvW it isn't nearly as easy to reliably land on people and it often does more damage to

you

than you do to other players when using it in a zerg.Not to mention, again, the damage. 133x6 in WvW for a total damage of 800 on a 25s recharge. Sounds alot. Well just a basic warrior throw axe has 300 damage. And you can throw it twice. And its on 12s recharge. And it increase damage 50-100% depending on enemy hp. And thats just the skill, we ignore class traits on both the engie and warrior.

Hell, ghastly claws has 1k damage on 10s cd! And it can do 50% more damage if the enemy has maxed voulnerability on them. That must be 5x as oppressive as oppressive or something, yet the necro is usually the first to die in smallscale...

You need to stop comparing wiki values that do not account for all the damage multipliers and procs that are actually in place with eachother.