Dagger dagger has always been the signature weapon for thief/rogue/assassin types, yet it is by far the weakest thief build right now. Needs a hard buff.

[miifi.2150]

Dear mods: I only just now noticed that there is a forum for every profession, i apologize if i broke the rules by posting about this here. Please dont hurt me:/

 

Onto the post:

 

Everybody knows that dagger dagger is the true weapon combo for assassin types, but its by far the weakest weapon combo for thief right now.

It loses to most lots of classes, and it loses to every other thief build.

I'm not asking to make it the strongest build, but can we at least have it around the same strength as other thief builds?

Can we please get some hard buffs? A little bleed damage won't be enough unfortunately..

Edited May 2, 2021 by miifi.2150

[Shao.7236]

There's a valkyrie D/D build out there that works in many parts, the issue is how most fights are full of AoE's, staying in range people always punish thieves.

 

It's possible to chain stealths safely quite literally for days and deal quite a bit of damage with the available evade. Like said, playing D/D involves constant really close combat unlike the other options hence why it's not popular. It's difficult to not melt at people's constant defenses that surrounds them, even with the damage reduction.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Shao.7236

[Stand The Wall.6987]

death blossom needs a rework. hopefully it gets one and when they do imo it needs a good mechanical buff, like transfer 1 condi or some such. d/d could also greatly benefit from weakness application.

[Liewec.2896]

a loooong time ago it was meta to play a glassy build that hit a huge backstab and then spammed heartseeker.

i remember that build being mostly d/d

 

but yeah i agree i'd like to see more love for D/D.

perhaps a trait that massively reduces "Revealed" duration while you have d/d equipped.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Liewec.2896

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

As long as you dont buff the 3-3-3 spam to where it is a viable condi build for conquest, yes, it is in need of some tuning. 

[Avatar.3568]

3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3

[UNOwen.7132]

Death Blossom needs a rework, its kind of a bad skill. Make it a gapcloser or something.

[Jekkt.6045]

d/d needs to move away from condis. it's bad and thief doesn't have the sustain for a melee condi build anwyay. 

 

Let's be honest here, thief builds simply don't work without a gimmick. take a look at all melee builds and how they either rely on blind, stealth or evade (shadow shot mobility + blind, flanking strike evade, pistol whip evade).  So to make death blossom viable (rework or not, doesn't even matter), it needs some obnoxious effect on it like blind, evade, block or whatever + damage because backstab simply won't work with dagger offhand.

 

best bet is to hope for a brawler type elite spec. or rework thief.

[Doggie.3184]

I haven't wanted to use D/D since the nerf that interupted the AA flow. Have to cloak and dagger once every two AA chains or whatever they expect us to do. The first time they did that there was so much outrage they reverted it. Then they snuck it in later and no one said a word so /shug. Anyways it just doesn't feel good to use. It's already clunky mismatched skillset was bad enough since release but now it just feels worse and just a "mine as well just auto attack only most of the time" kinda thing.

 

Disappointed in patch notes since it continues to do nothing for underused elite spec Deadeye and underused weapon sets P/P (where the *** is ricochet? War gets AoE rifle though, War gets everything) P/D, D/D, Rifle which is just a mirror of P/P and still basically no AoE, Sword anything in PvE and not really worth it in PvP imo~ stop making PvP only Specs/weapon sets that are still not worth using anyways. And why does only Dagger and Rifle do backstab damage? It limits builds more. Staff is only thing that feels good to use in all modes despite the backstab doing no damage but I dropped stealth all together nowadays since I'm tired of playing with something so hated, unsupported and continuously nerfed.

 

Still wish they'd do to Death Blossom what they did with Weakening Charge and it wouldn't leap over them, making it more useable in all situations since our builds always want to focus on only 1-2 skills on a weapon and ignore the rest. The GW1 version was better. They could also just let us manually move during it to decide if we WANT to leap over them or not. And everything needs to be useable for power and condi builds, otherwise we have useless things on our bar.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[Terrorhuz.4695]

The only thing thief needs is some design which doesn't combine offensive and defensive options into one skill which does everything at once. OH YEAH LEMME JUST MMMMH 4K LARCENOUS STRIKE AND ALSO EVADE, or 4K SHADOWSHOT AND BLIND, or 5K PISTOL WHIP INTO STUN AND EVADE or GIANT EVADING JUMP INTO DIVEBOMB ON THE GROUND FOR 5k or whatever... or rifle, where the defence is being able to kill people from 20 light years away. The only good designed weapon is shortbow, where you have defense and offence on different skills. One could argue the defense is not really that good and that much I'll give (I wouldn't mind a buff there), but at least the weapon has a concept other than "spam one skill until you win".

Edited May 4, 2021 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Leonidrex.5649]

Ini system is kitten, and thief should be reworked from scratch, it doesnt work
be it pvp or pve or wvw its toxic and boring as kitten.
Thief was the first class I have made ( stupid me thought thief would be fun )
mashing the same button repeatedly isnt fun, you are incentivised to repeatedly use the same skill.
Its actually crazy to me that thief actually got developted as a class, who the kitten came up with this and thought its a good idea, sheesh

[miifi.2150]

Guys, check this out! I just made a suggestion for D/D that makes SO MUCH SENSE!

 

[Ragnar.4257]

I would probably figure out how to beat mesmer as thief before trying to come up with suggestions on how to rework the class.

[miifi.2150]

9 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

I would probably figure out how to beat mesmer as thief before trying to come up with suggestions on how to rework the class.

That was hella toxic, and I figured it out already.

 

And my suggestion is brilliant, if you took a couple minutes to read it you would think I'm a genius.

 

Now if you're just here to start drama, this forum isn't the place for that, if you haven't learned it yet.

[Ragnar.4257]

28 minutes ago, miifi.2150 said:

That was hella toxic, and I figured it out already.

 

And my suggestion is brilliant, if you took a couple minutes to read it you would think I'm a genius.

 

Now if you're just here to start drama, this forum isn't the place for that, if you haven't learned it yet.

I have read it, and no it isn't brilliant, and you are certainly not a genius.

 

1. The replacement you suggested already exists. Its called shadowshot. You don't even need the devs to do anything, just equip a pistol.

2. The problem with d/d is not dancing-dagger, it's cloak and dagger, which has been completely power-crept out of the game. A skill that only grants stealth IF you land a hit in melee range, just sucks, because these days everyone is throwing out 1000 blinds/blocks/evades per second whilst usain-bolting around the map with permanent superspeed, speedrunes, 1000 leaps, and anyway thief really can't afford to spend much time in melee range.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[miifi.2150]

3 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

I have read it, and no it isn't brilliant, and you are certainly not a genius.

 

1. The replacement you suggested already exists. Its called shadowshot. You don't even need the devs to do anything, just equip a pistol.

2. The problem with d/d is not dancing-dagger, it's cloak and dagger, which has been completely power-crept out of the game. A skill that only grants stealth IF you land a hit in melee range, just sucks, because these days everyone is throwing out 1000 blinds/blocks/evades per second, and thief really can't afford to spend much time in melee range.

Yeah I edited the topic, idk what got into me but for some reason I completely forgot that dancing dagger is shared between all offhand dagger builds xD

Edited May 5, 2021 by miifi.2150

[Psycoprophet.8107]

17 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

The only thing thief needs is some design which doesn't combine offensive and defensive options into one skill which does everything at once. OH YEAH LEMME JUST MMMMH 4K LARCENOUS STRIKE AND ALSO EVADE, or 4K SHADOWSHOT AND BLIND, or 5K PISTOL WHIP INTO STUN AND EVADE or GIANT EVADING JUMP INTO DIVEBOMB ON THE GROUND FOR 5k or whatever... or rifle, where the defence is being able to kill people from 20 light years away. The only good designed weapon is shortbow, where you have defense and offence on different skills. One could argue the defense is not really that good and that much I'll give (I wouldn't mind a buff there), but at least the weapon has a concept other than "spam one skill until you win".

This^^

Thief's design has a major flaw where one or 2 skills are overloaded and others on the same kit are effective in niche situations. Using dp for example, why does shadowshot blind? It does good damage and ports to its enemy. It would have been far better if blind was moved to headshot,daze removed and damage placed onto headshot, say 1.5k or so and make shadowshot a porting damage/interrupt skill only. Maybe drop sgadowshots damage output buy 10% to account for damage gain on headshot. With these changes if thief wants the enemy blinded when put into melee range from shadowshot they would have to headshot then shadowshot forcing the thief to use ini on two skills. That would give players the ability to forsee that a shsdowshot may be next and would act as a decent tell for the opponent. This would nerf shadowshot and buff hesdshot, leave thief with same access to blind as before, would lose its daze, make headshot more useful, cost the thief more ini and lastly buff thiefs damage as far as individual skill goes but because the thief would be pushed to spam shadowshot less due to its slightly less damage, extra ini cost for headshot for the blind this would result in the thief's damage not being buffed much as far as rotational damage etc and would promote thief using more of its kit more often.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107