World Linking 5/28/2021

[Pacificterror.7805]

Semi on topic - is anyone aware of any popular Australian timezone (like AEST) WvW servers (other than SoS - not holding my breath about it opening up so I can transfer) that I can consider transferring to? I'm the first to admit that I'm not a strong PvP player in this game and when I roam I tend to get waffle stomped as soon as an enemy player sets their sights on me.

 

This relink seems to be exposing a WvW population issue during my evenings. Prior to the relink, finding people to play with wasn't an issue at all (I can only assume due to whatever world we were linked with).....now most of the time when I log into the various maps, there's just people hanging out at or near the waypoints and trolling/hating on each other in map chat.

[Gorem.8104]

2 hours ago, Pacificterror.7805 said:

Semi on topic - is anyone aware of any popular Australian timezone (like AEST) WvW servers (other than SoS - not holding my breath about it opening up so I can transfer) that I can consider transferring to? I'm the first to admit that I'm not a strong PvP player in this game and when I roam I tend to get waffle stomped as soon as an enemy player sets their sights on me.

 

This relink seems to be exposing a WvW population issue during my evenings. Prior to the relink, finding people to play with wasn't an issue at all (I can only assume due to whatever world we were linked with).....now most of the time when I log into the various maps, there's just people hanging out at or near the waypoints and trolling/hating on each other in map chat.

I mean, on IOJ we have quite a few and we were capping ebg que last night with FA, problem is we just have fighters left and only private commanders so we were not really taking keeps or towers or anything. SoS has the most oceanic players who both fight and cap. Unfortunately unless you are on SoS or linked with them, wvw not really a good experience for ocx. 

[Karagee.6830]

On 5/30/2021 at 2:49 AM, CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:

 

It's not like Desolation, didn't go through bad times due to this linking system for the past 4 years, especially last year when we got went from having stacked links, to no link, dead links and a mass exodus of guilds. We are constantly losing players and guilds to our other links or other servers, because they think the grass was greener with this current Linking system.

 

They were also regulars on Teamspeak or Discord , not the pugs who are spawn camping and ppt ktraining maps like the last link. Some of us tried to ask them to stop doing it, but Anet dropped us both to High population for even more bandwagoners to move, especially before the WXP event.

 

It was also a problem, when the other servers were trying to tank out of T1 deliberately like FSP, because of the WSR factor, after the last relink, but even then the transfers you saw on Gw2mists, mostly went inactive a couple of weeks after the link.

 

Deso and WSR was overstacked thanks to system and fairweathers,, but so many other T1 EU servers and matchups have ended up the same and you see the same results, everytime there is a relink. It's not fun for anyone, unless you get a perfectly balanced links, which is rare with the spread of the population of different players and Guilds.

a) You don't get to complain after inflicting yourselves onto everyone else for 2 months

b) it has never happened that a server won 400 skirmishes in a row and up to the WvW bonus week they had 6 or less second places. Some of you jokers even had the audacity to say here above that you were outnumbered in the morning when you haven't come 2nd or 3rd in a morning skirmish for nearly the whole 2 months straight. The few 2nd places you had were all evening skirmishes after resets and you came second in a couple of morning skirmishes to AM at the end of the link period

b) Maybe you also want to apologise for your people farming alt accounts in WvW (not surprisingly, they were not or not only from WSR, but from Desolation, because I have also seen people this week doing it: you guys are so brazen or dumb that your alt accounts are also in your own guilds...kudos)

c) It wasn't just FSP tanking: several other servers, Gandara+FR tanked ON PURPOSE to get out of that shitshow before AND after the WvW event, guilds didn't log on purpose and most people stayed away from WvW. Yet, somehow the 2 servers that didn't tank and outnumbered everyone else at every hour of the day by a country mile both got a link and the tanking ones didn't. But please, do cry us a river how bad things are for you lot

Edited May 31, 2021 by Karagee.6830

[kruimeltje.5981]

I just love how Deso downplays their numbers and even suggest with the new link to FR things are better balanced hereby completely ignoring the fact that they were the no1 in population and still got a link while the numbers 2 and 3 didnt. I can live with the fact that Gandara (my server) didnt get a link as we were no2 in population but SFR should have gotten the link instead of Deso.For the rest i agree with the opinion that Anet should look at the numbers of servers in the EU and go to 4 tiers so every 1 gets a link .

[Niteraven.1372]

I really only have one word for this.  PATHETIC. My server is being annihilated every day.  Two small non full servers against Gigantic monsters.  Why even bother anymore?

[Pacificterror.7805]

1 hour ago, Niteraven.1372 said:

I really only have one word for this.  PATHETIC. My server is being annihilated every day.  Two small non full servers against Gigantic monsters.  Why even bother anymore?

 

That really sucks. I thought lower population servers were supposed to be linked with higher population servers to offset things like this....even my "Very High" population server is linked to a "Full" server.

[AlCapwnd.7834]

12 hours ago, Niteraven.1372 said:

I really only have one word for this.  PATHETIC. My server is being annihilated every day.  Two small non full servers against Gigantic monsters.  Why even bother anymore?

I agree. I have been getting flamed in the comments about BG's link. Sounds like BG should have been linked to your server (if you're NA) and not to a full server.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

14 hours ago, kruimeltje.5981 said:

I just love how Deso downplays their numbers and even suggest with the new link to FR things are better balanced hereby completely ignoring the fact that they were the no1 in population and still got a link while the numbers 2 and 3 didnt. I can live with the fact that Gandara (my server) didnt get a link as we were no2 in population but SFR should have gotten the link instead of Deso.For the rest i agree with the opinion that Anet should look at the numbers of servers in the EU and go to 4 tiers so every 1 gets a link .

we dont need 4 tiers, just unlink everyone.

 

links are unhealthy and don't work at all. some servers need to get split out to others also. i understand why this hasn't be done in past time, since "server pride" may have existed. these days, it does not. servers have no identity. only guilds have.

 

the link system should long time ago been replaced by alliances. for unknown reasons, this has not happened yet #allianceswhen

 

i was on deso till february. the server unlinked cannot field higher groups than 30-35, the rest is just ppters. and this was shown the two times it was relinked in 3 linkings ( before the double-relink with arborstone once)

 

what u guys ALWAYS seem to miss: even if deso has been full at link time, WSR was not. it got refilled by the old guilds just transferring back to the low populated WSR server, plus a few bandwagoners

 

 

[CrimsonRise.7650]

15 hours ago, kruimeltje.5981 said:

I just love how Deso downplays their numbers and even suggest with the new link to FR things are better balanced hereby completely ignoring the fact that they were the no1 in population and still got a link while the numbers 2 and 3 didnt. I can live with the fact that Gandara (my server) didnt get a link as we were no2 in population but SFR should have gotten the link instead of Deso.For the rest i agree with the opinion that Anet should look at the numbers of servers in the EU and go to 4 tiers so every 1 gets a link .

 

It is not downplaying, it is just the how it is, thanks to the Linking System.

The population is likely just inflated due to being Perma T1, plus Anet opened WSR and Deso inexplicably during the last link, so WSR was heavily stacked too despite two of their guilds going on a break, but we'll see, because now during Prime time is already a struggle with Guilds stacking elsewhere and what you are left is a ton of pugs who don't even join the squads, never mind on proper classes, Discord or TS..

 

Eventually those pugs might transfers and stack elsewhere and then we have to wait for the Tiers normalize, due to Glicko after the relinks, putting Servers in the wrong Tiers, with the odds stacked against them. 

 

Spoiler

There is no reason to reply to people with hysterical conspiracy theories , like playing on alts to let people farm. There was legit players letting pugs farm so that they could tank their match up.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by CrimsonNeonite.1048

[Karagee.6830]

Quote

There is no reason to reply to people with hysterical conspiracy theories , like playing on alts to let people farm. There was legit players letting pugs farm so that they could tank their match up.

People feeding kills is a different situation. Most of T1 server in the last 2 months (at least each and every one of Dzagonur, Riverside, Far Shiverpeaks and Gandara) all tanked when they were in T1. Some just didn't log in for the week, but I know personally people that fed kills to the 3rd server in order to demote to T2 (eg. people from Dzagonur fed FSP kills to lose skirmishes). But if you switch on your neurons you will understand that a) nobody had any reason to feed Deso/WSR with points from kills (it's not like it decreases your team's score) and b) those people were not blatant afkers in the open map, hanging out in hidden spots with people from the same guild but different servers.

 

Maybe Deso/WSR have raid groups dedicated to escort/kill dollies, who knows. Maybe they get a differential of hundreds of points that way over half an hour. It's more likely than people not farming alt accounts.

[Bristingr.5034]

5 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

for unknown reasons, this has not happened yet

It's always been known. $$$$

 

That's it. That's the only reason it's never happening. If guilds would just stop being a bunch of suckers and just stop transferring worlds, then we might get them.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Bristingr.5034

[Sonork.2916]

I'm curious why they keep relinking servers.  Just pair up some low pop to high pop servers and leave them together.  I'm on FA and have friends who have been wanting to join FA for like half a year but it's never opened.  They've jumped to linked servers a few times but the $$$ to keep joining a new relinked server is awful and just feels like a  cash grab.  Let us play wvw with our friends, I really hate Anets way of doing this.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Sonork.2916

[XenesisII.1540]

50 minutes ago, Sonork.2916 said:

I'm curious why they keep relinking servers.

...

They've jumped to linked servers a few times but the $$$ to keep joining a new relinked.

 

You answered your own curiosity.

 

Something for people to keep in mind, anet has it in their minds that certain servers need to be in certain tiers. They said it way back when links started that they take into account the tier of the server and those around it, It's obvious a t4 cannot compete with a t1 server, even to this day, I imagine this is mostly for host servers, they don't do straight up pairings to make sure it's even population along all servers through all tiers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-Linking-8-26-2016/6308545

Five years ago, and who knows how they go about relinks these days, but looks like they still follow that philosophy.

 

And also their reasoning on why some cannot be linked.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-Linking-6-24-2016/6218545

I don't know how true it is today five years later, but again because of language restrictions it makes it a little more difficult to get perfect links in EU.

 

Now if players are going to constantly jump servers every relink, they will continue to do links and make money off it, because why not? they're a business, something people seem to forget. If the bandwagoners stopped for a few links maybe anet will start to rethink this. I know it sucks not being able to play with friends or guild mates, but the options are still open to play together on another open server that everyone could agree to transfer to, if that's what you really wanted.

 

If people want to make friends with servers like BG which are known to be locked for 99% of the time for like the past 8 years, and refuse to move to an open server to play together, I dunno what else to tell you. Keep the transfer cycle going, and anet has no reason to hurry up with alliances which will most definitely cut into transfer cost.

[Coda.9185]

nobody blame the game for wanting to make money $$$ otherwise the game would die 
but it can make money and still keep it fair !

[Leaa.2943]

16 hours ago, Coda.9185 said:

nobody blame the game for wanting to make money $$$ otherwise the game would die 
but it can make money and still keep it fair !

Exactly this! Right now it is Arena Net who decide what server will have a active and healthy WvW and who will not. And if there was some sort of reason to actually be in tier 1 like you wint something then everybody would scream bloody murder because it is matchmanipulation in the first degree. But since there is no reason to be in tier 1 noone seem to care.

 

Also the fact that Gandara is without link more often then any other server and AGAIN is locked for a long period even though we are constantly outnumbered and our large prime queue did not show up until 21.30 today in which 6 players was in queue to EB. Other borders where outnumbered and that been our WvW this week, and yet we have not been opened. The only positive thing with it is that we will leave tier 1 and start the fall down because no link. Mean while Deso will sit with their active WvW for the third link period. 

And last link peirod Underworld took the hit and still suffer from it because they had no link. And SFR i dunno i guess they also will end up being locked as Gandara. is and there is litterally nothing we can do about it. And every relink same kitten happen to a point that all servers is crashing down because of this fabulous link invention.

 

This is fine.....

Edited June 4, 2021 by Leaa.2943
Spellmisstake and clarification

[CrimsonRise.7650]

1 hour ago, Leaa.2943 said:

Also the fact that Gandara is without link more often then any other server and AGAIN is locked for a long period even though we are constantly outnumbered and our large prime queue did not show up until 21.30 today in which 6 players was in queue to EB. Other borders where outnumbered and that been our WvW this week, and yet we have not been opened. The only positive thing with it is that we will leave tier 1 and start the fall down because no link. Mean while Deso will sit with their active WvW for the third link period. 

 

This is fine....

Actually, it's hardly that active on Deso anymore, so it wouldn't be surprised that RoF and Piken will dominate T1 starting from next week.

 

There are no queues at prime time apart from an EB clownfiesta and a few off peak ppt chatmanders, one active guild raiding 3 days a week and if we are lucky; open tags every other day, but it's been hard filling a full squad, because of the past couple of weeks during that last link. Still it's nice to be able to swap classes and hop back in straight away.

 

Also underworld was perma t1 with piken and then fow for 4 months in a row, just like Deso in late 2019 with bt and underworld links in early 2020, to being with no link and full after most guilds transferred away, due to being stuck in t1 and maps full of roamers and clouds. So of course UW used to be more active, until players and guilds end up being forced to move, unless they are extremely loyal, they have alts and so they don't need to spend gems.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by CrimsonNeonite.1048

[joneirikb.7506]

Do people not understand that the whole linking system is mostly automated ? It's not like ANet sits and picks servers to glue together, they just run a script, that takes the numbers, and matches them more or less up to each others, as close as they get, and ships it.

The linking isn't the problem the majority of people here are really complaining about, it's players moving servers, which is what neuters most of the things linking is trying to do (imperfectly, but still).

 

If you want actual fixes, and not just trying to whine at ANet until they give you the dream link so you can roflstomp all opponents (90% of players definition of "fair and balanced" right there):

* #AllianceWhen

* Set link's population to the same as the host, so people can't bandwagon to it every link.

* Nuke all servers, make new ones (probably once a year, and remove linking)

 

And accept that most fans are just going to get pissed, because most doesn't actually want a fair and balanced game mode, they just want an advantage for themselves.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

11 hours ago, CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:

Actually, it's hardly that active on Deso anymore, so it wouldn't be surprised that RoF and Piken will dominate T1 starting from next week.

 

There are no queues at prime time apart from an EB clownfiesta and a few off peak ppt chatmanders, one active guild raiding 3 days a week and if we are lucky; open tags every other day, but it's been hard filling a full squad, because of the past couple of weeks during that last link. Still it's nice to be able to swap classes and hop back in straight away.

 

Also underworld was perma t1 with piken and then fow for 4 months in a row, just like Deso in late 2019 with bt and underworld links in early 2020, to being with no link and full after most guilds transferred away, due to being stuck in t1 and maps full of roamers and clouds. So of course UW used to be more active, until players and guilds end up being forced to move, unless they are extremely loyal, they have alts and so they don't need to spend gems.

 

 

 

 

that is pretty similar to RoF+Piken actually. two dead links in t1, isn't that a great system xD

 

@joneirikb.7506 rhetorical question i suppose, still to answer for the newbies: yep, people do not understand this system at all.

 

i mean, it makes no sense so the "not understand" part is kinda legit. it's toxic for the game, but it's kinda automated mess. probably some links are only happening due to 0.001% fitting more towards one servers' activity and ignoring anything else.

 

bandwagoning is only a after-effect of bad linkings; it does NOT cause them. it reproduces bad links due to the flawed algorithm, but well. that is another issue.

 

[XenesisII.1540]

15 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Do people not understand that the whole linking system is mostly automated ? It's not like ANet sits and picks servers to glue together, they just run a script, that takes the numbers, and matches them more or less up to each others, as close as they get, and ships it.

 

Hm it's possible they do now, but that's not how it began, and we haven't been told otherwise since.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-6-June-World-Linking-Schedule-CLOSED/6193939

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/6172090

They spend time going through the data to manually create links. That was also kind of the point of alliances, to get a fully automated population match making system in place.

[Izay.8725]

2 High pop, 6 very full and every other server is full on NA.. why are links even a thing now that the population is high across the board? 

[Daredevil.2745]

lol piken is a linked server, not main anymore. what a shame, it must hurt the pride a lot to be linked to ring of fire haha. at least they took the place they deserved now as a linked server, nobody will remember your name soon

[Gorem.8104]

7 hours ago, Izay.8725 said:

2 High pop, 6 very full and every other server is full on NA.. why are links even a thing now that the population is high across the board? 

 

What interests me is SoS did lose some guilds in an Xfer to IoJ, that is why IoJ is suddenly very high. Yet somehow SoS is still counted as full, even with the guild xfers. Which means that this "Full" amount is very flexible, you can be at the bottom end of full and have a near dead server experience at many times of day, or at the top end and have every map full with que's on every map. The fact that hundreds of people can xfer out of a full server, and it still be counted as full, is concerning. 

 

The whole system is utterly terrible. We needed a new system to replace this when it was announced... three years ago. You essentially are forced to keep server swapping to stay with the link you want to the full server you want. And that is 100% the only reason why its still like this. Anet is milking money off people swapping servers every re-link. We'd have to stop doing that entirely to get them to finally do something about it. 

[XenesisII.1540]

9 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

What interests me is SoS did lose some guilds in an Xfer to IoJ, that is why IoJ is suddenly very high. Yet somehow SoS is still counted as full, even with the guild xfers. Which means that this "Full" amount is very flexible, you can be at the bottom end of full and have a near dead server experience at many times of day, or at the top end and have every map full with que's on every map. The fact that hundreds of people can xfer out of a full server, and it still be counted as full, is concerning. 

 

The whole system is utterly terrible. We needed a new system to replace this when it was announced... three years ago. You essentially are forced to keep server swapping to stay with the link you want to the full server you want. And that is 100% the only reason why its still like this. Anet is milking money off people swapping servers every re-link. We'd have to stop doing that entirely to get them to finally do something about it. 

 

Because there's an actual line(threshold) for full, just because some guilds move it doesn't automatically mean you may drop to very high if you were already way above the line. People always seem to forget about the overnight populations of servers when they question when their own time zone is empty but yet their server is marked higher than it seems. Especially for a server like SoS which has the biggest overnight population of any of the servers now I would think.

 

Now I'm gonna leave a couple nice graphs from long ago..

 

Anets Population Threshold Example

 

Players Population Threshold Example

 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by XenesisII.1540

[Gorem.8104]

Rather seems interesting then, if we all xfered from full servers to none full servers till they hit that full line, it sounds like we could cap every NA server the game has and make them all be considered as full, hah. 

 

Wonder how the linking system will work then 😛 

[XenesisII.1540]

Maybe it'll get to the point that all servers are "full" and then they completely stop transfers, and only allow you to get on a server with a brand new expansion paid account. 😆