New path to legendary armor?

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 minute ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Raids are not separate gamemode 🙂

 

And Asura are Norns.

[MarkoGold.7126]

1 minute ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

Only by virtue of there being no other pve legendary armor.

 

 

Fine, believe whatever the hell you want there, I've clearly enunciated my point and you've consistently ignored it.  I'm done bothering with you.

Translation i cant get my way now im gonna go reeeee and run away because i wont get my way, amr 🙂 .

[Sobx.1758]

23 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Only by virtue of there being no other pve legendary armor.

No, but by virtue of it requiring various pve content to acquire the armor. You don't like a part of those requirements, so you label the whole process as being strictly that requirement. It's still a pve LA that ALSO requires raids (which still is pve).

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Dante.1763]

19 minutes ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

Translation i cant get my way now im gonna go reeeee and run away because i wont get my way, amr 🙂 .

Honestly theres no point in continuing to discuss things with you, i understand why OP doesnt want to. You do come off as an incredibly toxic person, and so do most of the players who want the only pve armor to be obtained from raids. Despite there being two different pvp options to obtain armor in, theres only one PVE one, that excludes the majority of players, like myself, who clearly dont have an issue putting in the effort to get the items when they are in a mode they enjoy. Note: i do raids, i dont enjoy doing raids. They suck, and i cant wait to never have to do them again, due to the toxic rude players in them, not to mention the idiotic gatekeeping present in the Raid community.

 

You can say raids are pve, and in the barest of terms they are, since its not against other players, but they may as well be a separate game mode due to how gatekept that mode is, for the vast majority of players. But, when options are presented, and they have been, that would allow players of open world PVE to get legendary armor(Not the Envoy skin), for even more work than what it takes for raiders to get their unique skin, you and others like you come off as very toxic people. Not to mention youve been pretty rude.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Dante.1763

[hash.8462]

21 minutes ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

Translation i cant get my way now im gonna go reeeee and run away because i wont get my way, amr 🙂 .

Players don't hate Raids but the Raid community, and your behavior is proof of that.

[Moradorin.6217]

Just my 2cp about this after having made 3 sets of legendary armor. I made a pvp set, a wvw set and a raid set. From my experience the raid set was by far the easiest to obtain. Raid armor took less time to grind out the achivements and 150 Li vs either pvp or wvw.

 

WvW Armor is the most soloable/flexible since you can roam around solo for pip and track progress. The weekly time can vary allot depending how much you can find Outnumbered. Its also nice that you can upgrade the basic armor then get the Mistforged skins later once you have the rank and skermish tickets without actually needing to even make ascended Mistforged let alone actually bothering to make more legendary for skins of all things (raid armor sucks in this one area).

 

PvP Armor is the most toxic environment to get legendary armor in but is more grindable than wvw since it doesnt have a hard cap on Ascended Shards, but it takes allot of playing unless you have a crazy high win rate because you get more pips for wins. Also Just like WvW armor the PvP Mistforged skins can be unlocked without needing to even buy armor. (you just buy the skin)

 

Raid Armor was the easiest and arguably the fastest path to a set of raid armor, but it does require 150 LI so people new to raids will need to do Wings 1-4 each week for I think min 10 weeks (?) to get enough LI even if they are able to do the achivements in less time. Its possible to get carried through in raids more than in pvp or wvw if you wana "buy" your armor. Raiding is allot easier than most seem to think and the envoy achivements are all rather easy once your able to get wing clears. The hardest achivement is probably cairn greens for envoy 2 which is the one part you pretty much have to do yourself.

 

--Personal Side issue Beef past here --

 

Side Issue Note: I feel Obtaining Legendary Armor Skins is very inconsistent with respect to Envoy armor and IMO is so inconsistent its broken and should be addressed. What I mean is, both wvw and pvp Mistforged armor skin sets can be obtained without crafting legendary armor and without even needing to use marks. However, raid Envoy Armor skins require someone to not only craft the ascended precursor armor BUT ALSO Upgrade it to FULL Legendary JUST for the other Perfected Envoy skins WITHOUT a method to just purchase the other skins of the set without crafting ascended AND Legendary. This IMO is Majorly broken to the point that it seems like a HUGE missmatch in rewards.

 

Either WvW/PvP Legendary armor upgrade needs to get a 3rd cooler skin set unlock when you craft the legendary version or Perfected Envoy skins need to be obtainable without Crafting more legendendary. Otherwise the entire legendary reward system is 100% inconsistent broken BS in this respect.

 

--end side beef--

Edited July 17, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Sobx.1758]

40 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

Players don't hate Raids but the Raid community, and your behavior is proof of that.

If only lfg wasn't limited to just joining, but also allowed people to make their squads with their own rules or lack of them 🤔

All these stories about gatekeeping, flaming and kicking for suboptimal perfomrance on this forum going around, but somehow I never had a problem with getting into random squads if I felt so, must be pure magic. Or is "raid community bad" the substitute for "I don't want to learn content/game mechanics"?

Edited July 17, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

I'm also voicing support for the OP's suggestion. Really the virtue of this game is all the different types of content it has, not pegging players into particular modes of content to get armor is in the game's best interest.

Also 2 of the 3 game modes for acquiring armor contain our most toxic communities. Many of the frequent negative posters in this thread is a member of one them (raids). It's in anet's best interest to allow players the choice of which communities they're interacting with if they want people to enjoy the game as they advance their characters. Because obviously expecting people to play with some of the people in this thread would be a terrible design choice.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[hash.8462]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If only lfg wasn't limited to just joining, but also allowed people to make their squads with their own rules or lack of them 🤔

All these stories about gatekeeping, flaming and kicking for suboptimal perfomrance on this forum going around, but somehow I never had a problem with getting into random squads if I felt so, must be pure magic. Or is "raid community bad" the substitute for "I don't want to learn content"?

I know how to do raids (the old wings at least, I've quit before the last 3 were released), and that behavior is also present in Fractals but not to that extent.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, hash.8462 said:

I know how to do raids (the old wings at least, I've quit before the last 3 were released), and that behavior is also present in Fractals but not to that extent.

Ok, but that fact doesn't relate in any way to what I said and the fact that you pretend everyone playing there does the same according to the same set of rules? That's just false.

[Firebeard.1746]

59 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

Players don't hate Raids but the Raid community, and your behavior is proof of that.

So much this. It's funny this guy is trying to ask this player to basically play with him or his community (Play the game mode I do!), while treating him like crap XD.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[hash.8462]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ok, but that fact doesn't relate in any way to what I said and the fact that you pretend everyone playing there does the same according to the same set of rules? That's just false.

Sorry, let me explain more precisely ...

That was just the answer to your question:  Or is "raid community bad" the substitute for "I don't want to learn content"?

And my answer is: No, I know how to do the content, my problem is the behavior of the community.

 

As I've said, I also see this behavior in Fractal (not towards me) and I try to stay away from those players (a lot easier to do that in fractals than in raids).

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

Sorry, let me explain more precisely ...

That was just the answer to your question:  Or is "raid community bad" the substitute for "I don't want to learn content"?

And my answer is: No, I know how to do the content, my problem is the behavior of the community.

 

As I've said, I also see this behavior in Fractal (not towards me) and I try to stay away from those players (a lot easier to do that in fractals than in raids).

Ok, but just because "you see this behavior" here and there doesn't make it an overal fact for the whole community and by far it isn't.

[hash.8462]

28 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ok, but just because "you see this behavior" here and there doesn't make it an overal fact for the whole community and by far it isn't.

A few bad apples spoil the bunch...

The problem is that I've seen too many of these rotten apples to hope for things getting better.

 

[Fuchslein.8639]

Just like many OW-only players lump other "communities" of PVP, WVW and Raids together. These also throw you into one and the same pot.
That's at least what I do here in the forum, because it is often tedious to lead constructive discussions without the people throw any prejudices purely.

 

Why do such discussions always have to revolve around the people behind them? We play an MMO, there are not only 5 people with whom you can play ...
Do you also run around in RL and say all old people are mean, because a few have behaved crappy towards you?

I understand that people find the content too hard, or too annoying. But to say I don't want to do xy because I'm not in a position in an MMO to find people with whom I can do that and therefore rely on bad experiences with randoms is ... uff

Don't expect to be handled with cotton gloves when you are the bad example you are talking about.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

Pve legendary armor is a reward for people playing raids and one of the mayor reasons people do them, if you hate raids guess what you dont get the pve legy armor.

And that is why Envoy is a Raid legendary, not really a pve one. It's not meant for pve players in general, but only for raiders.

 

But that's completely besides the point. That point being:

 

Sure, what you say is true - but only when we're talking about Envoy set. It does not preclude introducing new sets, that would be rewards for different subsets of PvE, or would be meant for PvE players in general.

 

And as for legendary armor being one of the mayor reasons why people even do raids - perhaps you're right. But that would only mean that raids as a content are simply not interesting enough to bring to them enough people to make that content worth developing at all. In which case they should never have been introduced in the first place.

[Fuchslein.8639]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And that is why Envoy is a Raid legendary, not really a pve one. It's not meant for pve players in general, but only for raiders.

 

But that's completely besides the point. That point being:

 

Sure, what you say is true - but only when we're talking about Envoy set. It does not preclude introducing new sets, that would be rewards for different subsets of PvE, or would be meant for PvE players in general.

 

And as for legendary armor being one of the mayor reasons why people even do raids - perhaps you're right. But that would only mean that raids as a content are simply not interesting enough to bring to them enough people to make that content worth developing at all. In which case they should never have been introduced in the first place.

 

The only reason people play GW2 in general is for rewards and story....(and I doubt that many would play the story if there were no rewards and achievments for it). The only reason people play games at all is to get rewarded and feel good.
To say something has no value because less people would play it if there were no rewards is lame.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Honestly toxicity and gate keeping is an unfortunate reality of mmos and games. Anything with a hardcore player base is going to have it. It really really sucks and I sympathize. I exclusively pug raids every week. I've got a full medium set, 3 pieces of heavy, and I took a break from heavy to do light. Currently 4 pieces into light. Has every group been easy and chill? Helllllll noooooo!

 

Some groups were so toxic and the funny thing is the toxic people were also the ones who were constantly screwing up mechanics. I've been in other groups where people didn't ask for kp, we joked in discord, had a good time, made friends and full cleared wings 5-7. There's a lot of social awkwardness trying to fit yourself into an established community regardless of where you're at in life. Being the new person is terrifying.

 

There's a discord community called Raid Academy that I just recently found out about. I'm doing 20-25 bosses a week in a few hours just pugging. If you want the pve armor you CAN do it. It might not be content you want to have to do but you do have to do it if you want the armor. 

 

The legendary armors and back pieces require the highest level of a given genre. For pvp you can't just spam unranked for 6 months. You need to play competitive which is harder. For fractals you can't spam T1s for ad infinitum. You have to do high level fractals. Open world pve is pve but it's the lowest required skill pve. Raids are the highest tier of pve content so it makes sense the rewards are structured around it.

 

Recently I came back to the game after a long break, I saw something called the abyssal infusion. I had to have it..... I googled where it came from and was disheartened to learn it came from CM 100 or just farming CMs.... whelp..... time to get to fractals I guess. There was a significant amount of gate keeping from even doing 100 CM to even unlock the vendor. Eventually I went in to exp groups. I told them I had watched the video on how to do the fight but hadn't done it. I offered everyone in the group 10 gold if they let me go AND I wiped the group (if we wipe and its not my fault nobody gets paid). It worked a couple times, I lost the bet a couple times, but in the end I got a kill, got the tokens, and bought it from the vendor. If you want something you can get it. Just have to persevere.

 

Tldr: you got this

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Honestly I think the best idea you had is around AP. 30k AP is for sure an achievement that would require a lot of grinding. 42k even more so. I think to balance the amount of skill (not just time) that legendary armor should require, there should be a huge gold wall for it.  Like crafting that set should be 5k+ to fully craft. Making gold is also part of the open world so that would be fair imho. 

Nah. getting to that amount of Ap is way more effort than farming all the raid sets anyway. I don't see a reason for increased gold cost for it. For the "general pve" version the cost would be higher, though, because the collection would definitely not be costless, nor would crafting precursor sets be cheap.

 

6 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

I dont think reusing envoy stuff is the play though. Having a unique set for each is super important to the motivation to play the modes.

When i was using envoy as example, i was talking only about the components (the crafting part), not the visuals. I'd expect for the general PvE set to have its own skin.

 

Of course, seeing as Anet saw no problem whatsoever in giving out the raid skins to WvW and SPvP players that crafted duplicate sets for their content, i would not be surprised if the exclusivity of the Envoy set would get reduced in the future.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nah. getting to that amount of Ap is way more effort than farming all the raid sets anyway. I don't see a reason for increased gold cost for it. For the "general pve" version the cost would be higher, though, because the collection would definitely not be costless, nor would crafting precursor sets be cheap.

 

When i was using envoy as example, i was talking only about the components (the crafting part), not the visuals. I'd expect for the general PvE set to have its own skin.

 

Of course, seeing as Anet saw no problem whatsoever in giving out the raid skins to WvW and SPvP players that crafted duplicate sets for their content, i would not be surprised if the exclusivity of the Envoy set would get reduced in the future.

Wait what? People who made multiple wvw sets got envoy skins? Is that a thing that happened? 

[Astralporing.1957]

8 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

The only reason people play GW2 in general is for rewards and story....(and I doubt that many would play the story if there were no rewards and achievments for it). The only reason people play games at all is to get rewarded and feel good.
To say something has no value because less people would play it if there were no rewards is lame.

Yes. Feel rewarded and feel good. Notice, that Marko seems to think that many of raiders would not be raiding if not for exclusivity of legendary armor. So, he apparently does not believe those players are having fun in there.

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Wait what? People who made multiple wvw sets got envoy skins? Is that a thing that happened? 

Yes. The compensation for having a duplicate legendary piece, in case of legendary armors, is a chest from which you can get a selection of: envoy legendary pieces, WvW and SPvP legendary armor pieces (only the base ones, not the "upgraded visuals" kind), or a legendary rune. So, if you crafted two WvW heavy sets, you would get 6 chests, from which you could get 6 pieces of Envoy armor.

 

Of course, that was an on-time event, it's not something that can be repeated (for now, anyway), but still it means it was possible for some people to get raid armor sets without not only doing the collections, but even stepping into raids once.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes. The compensation for having a duplicate legendary piece, in case of legendary armors, is a chest from which you can get a selection of: envoy legendary pieces, WvW and SPvP legendary armor pieces (only the base ones, not the "upgraded visuals" kind), or a legendary rune. So, if you crafted two WvW heavy sets, you would get 6 chests, from which you could get 6 pieces of Envoy armor.

Thats not right.... that completely goes against the idea of doing the content that is attached to the reward.... so you could spam wvw legendary sets and just trade the extras in for envoy? Well why aren't people just doing that then? That's wrong...

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Thats not right.... that completely goes against the idea of doing the content that is attached to the reward.... so you could spam wvw legendary sets and just trade the extras in for envoy? Well why aren't people just doing that then? That's wrong...

Read the later edit above. Basically, it was a compensation that was given out when legendary armory arrived. It is not something you can repeat at the moment. Still, the very fact that it did happen is telling.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Read the later edit above. Basically, it was a compensation that was given out when legendary armory arrived. It is not something you can repeat at the moment. Still, the very fact that it did happen is telling.

Well that makes it better at least because I can't imagine the amount of people that had two of the same type legendary armor are very many. In that scenario it's kind of like legendaries being handed out to pvp tournament winners.