New path to legendary armor?

[Firebeard.1746]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ok, but just because "you see this behavior" here and there doesn't make it an overal fact for the whole community and by far it isn't.

I mean just the absence in general of respectful posts from raiders who attack non raiders speaks volumes. If raiders weren't so toxic, they'd be calling out the members of their community more often and looking for ways to help others enjoy the game mode instead of just being quiet. More often than not though i see "LIkes" and "Thanks" reactions to toxic posts from raiders rather than a dissenting voice. So it's quite easy to see why people let this happen.

I mean your personal attacks on peoples' skill speaks volumes.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Zalavaaris.5329]

15 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I mean just the absence in general of respectful posts from raiders who attack non raiders speaks volumes. If raiders weren't so toxic, they'd be calling out the members of their community more often and looking for ways to help others enjoy the game mode instead of just being quiet. More often than not though i see "LIkes" and "Thanks" reactions to toxic posts from raiders rather than a dissenting voice. So it's quite easy to see why people let this happen.

I mean your personal attacks on peoples' skill speaks volumes.

Would you consider offering helpful communities as being helpful? I recently posted about the group in this thread to encourage players to learn and get better. Not just with the game but also navigating the community. Also keep in mind, toxicity isn't just raiders. Hardcore pvp players can be toxic, hardcore raiders can be toxic, hardcore mountain biking can be toxic, hardcore card collectors can be toxic. Do you see where I'm going with this? Enthusiasts in anything can be toxic. Don't let others sway your gameplay. Take the toxicity in stride and move onto the next group. You cant control who is toxic, you can only control how you react to it. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Sobx.1758]

45 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I mean just the absence in general of respectful posts from raiders who attack non raiders speaks volumes. If raiders weren't so toxic, they'd be calling out the members of their community more often and looking for ways to help others enjoy the game mode instead of just being quiet. More often than not though i see "LIkes" and "Thanks" reactions to toxic posts from raiders rather than a dissenting voice. So it's quite easy to see why people let this happen.

 

"Calling out other raiders" is not my job, I have no tools to do anything about it. What I can do is participate in raids in squads with good atmosphere while not locking people from joining or insulting them for not instantly succeeding. And that's the approach I have as well as many other random people with whom I'm raiding. I'm missing whatever point you're trying to make here in an attempt to put a blame for some people in the community on me (and/or other people that participate in raid content).

 

Quote

I mean your personal attacks on peoples' skill speaks volumes.

What personal attacks? If you have anything relevant to respond, then go on, otherwise don't quote me just to get your personal vendetta for getting called out in another thread that then you marked for deletion, because it was just that transparent. The fact you've visited my forum profile before writing this post speaks volumes.

Thanks, bye. (unless you have anything to say that's relevant to this thread or what I said, then by all means -go on)

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, hash.8462 said:

A few bad apples spoil the bunch...

The problem is that I've seen too many of these rotten apples to hope for things getting better.

So if I see toxic people in OW (and you know we all see them, right? Or do you somehow not?), I'm free to blame you and rest of the players because you happen to be nearby?

That doesn't make much sense to me. I keep raiding with randoms, sometimes with requirements, sometimes without and I don't remember when was last time anyone raged/flamed about anything, tried to tell people what class/build to play and so on. Pick or make your squads accordingly to how you want to play. Pretending that you can't raid without elitists is just false.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

I'm also curious what toxicity means to people who bring it up as a concern. The other day I was in a deimos pug and the group kicked me for being toxic. What happened was it was a group of 6 or 7 friends who pugged the rest to fill the raid and 2 of the guys were going back and forth failing the oil. If it wasn't one of them it was the other. About 6 or 7 wipes to the same thing. I literally said "ok guys, we HAVE to dodge the oils on the ground. The orange circles that turn black are what I'm talking about. If we can't dodge it we won't kill it". 

 

I was then removed and whispered saying I was a gate keeping elitist and that I was being toxic. No insults were thrown, no belittling, and no sarcasm. Is this the toxicity you're describing? 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Firebeard.1746]

20 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

I'm also curious what toxicity means to people who bring it up as a concern. The other day I was in a deimos pug and the group kicked me for being toxic. What happened was it was a group of 6 or 7 friends who pugged the rest to fill the raid and 2 of the guys were going back and forth failing the oil. If it wasn't one of them it was the other. About 6 or 7 wipes to the same thing. I literally said "ok guys, we HAVE to dodge the oils on the ground. The orange circles that turn black are what I'm talking about. If we can't dodge it we won't kill it". 

 

I was then removed and whispered saying I was a gate keeping elitist and that I was being toxic. No insults were thrown, no belittling, and no sarcasm. Is this the toxicity you're describing? 

Nope -> more like belittling people for failling mechanics. I've seen a lot of that in disc. It's especially toxic to people learning, because it discourages and makes them not want to do it any more at all. Sounds like you're trying to say "I wasn't being toxic but you're calling me toxic anyway"

There's plenty to go around, it's far more likely in raids than just about any other game mode. I feel like PVP's toxicity is very self-contained compared to raiders', like raiders feel they have to rant about how unskilled people are here on the forums all the time, both in DRMs, and OW content in general. And then they'll spout platitudes like "just dodge" when there's actually 5 different mechanics you COULD dodge but if you tried, your entire endurance bar couldn't cover it, instead of explaining mechanics.

And this is basically why I don't consider PVP nearly as toxic. Sure sometimes you'll see a git gud on the PVP forums, but they don't bash say, WvWers as being noobs here. And tbh many WvW players don't focus on their individual skill and PVP players could probably validly troll them if they wanted (not that I would condone it, but they could feel special if they wanted to). And generally the keyboard warriors in your matchse are the worst players and can usually be safely ignored.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:40 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

The two respective sets are similar apart from very minor differences (like a light glow). If you intend to reskin it, there is no point in going for the more (timewise) expensive version of any of the sets.

PvP gets a set. WvW gets a set. Raid gets a set. Overworld/Fractals should get a set.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

21 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Nope -> more like belittling people for failling mechanics. I've seen a lot of that in disc. It's especially toxic to people learning, because it discourages and makes them not want to do it any more at all. Sounds like you're trying to say "I wasn't being toxic but you're calling me toxic anyway"

There's plenty to go around, it's far more likely in raids than just about any other game mode. I feel like PVP's toxicity is very self-contained compared to raiders', like raiders feel they have to rant about how unskilled people are here on the forums all the time, both in DRMs, and OW content in general. And then they'll spout platitudes like "just dodge" when there's actually 5 different mechanics you COULD dodge but if you tried, your entire endurance bar couldn't cover it, instead of explaining mechanics.

And this is basically why I don't consider PVP nearly as toxic. Sure sometimes you'll see a git gud on the PVP forums, but they don't bash say, WvWers as being noobs here. And tbh many WvW players don't focus on their individual skill and PVP players could probably validly troll them if they wanted (not that I would condone it, but they could feel special if they wanted to). And generally the keyboard warriors in your matchse are the worst players and can usually be safely ignored.

I'm thinking people care too much. It's just a video game. I've been berated and yelled at and insulted over the years of playing all my games. Ok... new group, hope this one's better... I won't let some jerks stop me from getting my legendary armor if it's what I want. I didn't let the wvw toxicity drive me away from warbringer when I wanted to zerg on my thief. Just push through, people will be people and unfortunately a lot of them are toxic jerks. 😕

 

It's also a problem with a limited duration. The more groups you get yourself into the better you get (as was the case with me). Now I'm the one helping others with mechanics. 

[Rogue.8235]

Most of the posts in this thread have zero value to the developers.... there's a lot of arguing in circles.

 

To bring the thread back on topic:

 

I am more keen on the idea of expanding existing map reward track system into an over-world system that incentivizes varied gameplay.  I'm not yet sure how to address the points below, but I would like ArenaNet to pursue the reward track systems further.  It's a great backbone to allow players to play how they want while allowing the devs to tailor the subsystem to highlight the activities they want associated with a particlar reward track.  I'm all for using this system as a template to heavily modify for legendary armor.

 

Please note my points below:

 

  

16 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

It seems to me that some in this thread desire something akin to an expansion of the map bonus reward structure, but on a global scale across open world pve.

 

For reference, click this sentence to read about map bonus reward tracks in open world pve.

 

I'm not sure how to conceptualize an over-world bonus reward structure (that can be built from existing functions of the map reward structure) in such a way as to award legendary armor with the same investment as other methods.

 

One problem I see is the avoidance of "efficient routes"

How do you structure this system in such a way as to avoid players farming the same route continuously?  A side effect of this goal, that seems to be consistently brought up in this thread, is to re-incentivize older content for long-time players.

Also note, map completion contributes to the existing map reward tracks.

 

You would need some sort of location-based tracking of open world activities as a foundation to incentivize varied gameplay.

You also need to avoid creating a system that is too similar to the already existing gift of exploration and map reward tracks.  Too much overlap will feel grindy to players due to the lack of "frechness" and novelty.

 

What is the balance of skill-check, time-gating, and resource sinking that should be implemented?  You want to have the same investment as other legendary armor paths, bei it time, currency, skill, or any other criteria someone imaginative can come up with.  However, you want to avoid a system that is perceived as too costly, as this would deter most players and illicit a negative response to the game as a whole.

 

These are just a few things off the top of my head.  If I take the time to think about it I would be able to bring up more considerations that ArenaNet would have to address.  This is to demonstrate the complexity of the issue and why it can't "just be done quickly."

 

oh another one

Scalability must be taken into account.  System must be designed in such a way that it scales with the evolution of the game.  You don't want something that will "feel outdated" or become obsolete.  Legendaries are an overarching reward structure in the game.  By it's nature, it must be able to withstand time and evolution.

 

Don't forget resources required for designing new armor sets.  Armor skins are very resource intensive.  The cost-benefit of new armor skins vs. reuse of existing assets must be analyzed.  Resources should not be the only consideration.  Player perception must be taken into account.

 

Another consideration is allocation of resources.  What time table do you need, which considers other planned release schedules.  How much development should be reallocated to the open world pve legendary armor project and for what duration.  Marginal cost (adjusted for time value money) and other such financial techniques must be used in this analysis.  SWOT, 5 forces, and other such strategic techniques must be used in the analysis.  Risk assessments as well.  Budget's need to be drawn as well as value-added.  Notice how I used the term value-added and not something that is milted to monetary gain.  Value-added is extremely important in the software industry.  Of course, anyone with an intermediate background in economics are finance will be able to quantify value-added for comparison purposes for the decision makers.

 

 

What the forums can actually help with is a prelude to the case analysis.  What do the players actually want out of this system?  be thorough and descriptive and identify what you prioritize.  This helps with the later use case analysis that would be done before any project gets rolling.  Such thorough and detailed descriptions help project planners identify how the system would be used.

 

All of this is just food for thought.

 

edited for grammar.

 

[Zalavaaris.5329]

12 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

Most of the posts in this thread have zero value to the developers.... there's a lot of arguing in circles.

 

To bring the thread back on topic:

 

I am more keen on the idea of expanding existing map reward track system into an over-world system that incentivizes varied gameplay.  I'm not yet sure how to address the points below, but I would like ArenaNet to pursue the reward track systems further.  It's a great backbone to allow players to play how they want while allowing the devs to tailor the subsystem to highlight the activities they want associated with a particlar reward track.  I'm all for using this system as a template to heavily modify for legendary armor.

 

Please note my points below:

 

  

 

Thats not a bad idea but do know that having a game related conversation without a development outcome is also appropriate for the forums.

[Firebeard.1746]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What personal attacks? If you have anything relevant to respond, then go on, otherwise don't quote me just to get your personal vendetta for getting called out in another thread that then you marked for deletion, because it was just that transparent. The fact you've visited my forum profile before writing this post speaks volumes.

Thanks, bye. (unless you have anything to say that's relevant to this thread or what I said, then by all means -go on)

 

O really? This is pretty clearly a jab at other people on this thread implying that they're bad.  You're exactly the personal that needs to be called out by fellow raiders if the devs are to take raiders seriously. And let's be clear here, you're the one with the vendetta. 

 

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If only lfg wasn't limited to just joining, but also allowed people to make their squads with their own rules or lack of them 🤔

 

All these stories about gatekeeping, flaming and kicking for suboptimal perfomrance on this forum going around, but somehow I never had a problem with getting into random squads if I felt so, must be pure magic. Or is "raid community bad" the substitute for "I don't want to learn content/game mechanics"?

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Zalavaaris.5329]

5 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

O really? This is pretty clearly a jab at other people on this thread implying that they're bad.  You're exactly the personal that needs to be called out by fellow raiders if the devs are to take raiders seriously. And let's be clear here, you're the one with the vendetta. 

 

 

 

One of the unfortunate truths in life is that where skill goes, ego will follow. And where ego goes, toxicity is right behind it. Raiding isn't inherently toxic but the fast clears that don't wipe for an hour on sloth can be. Not always is but I won't try to say it never happens. 

[Sobx.1758]

27 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

O really? This is pretty clearly a jab at other people on this thread implying that they're bad.  You're exactly the personal that needs to be called out by fellow raiders if the devs are to take raiders seriously. And let's be clear here, you're the one with the vendetta. 

 

 

 

....what? 😆  No, it's not. What are you even talking about again? Where did I imply anyone's bad? I think you misunderstand the use of that word in my post.

Nothing in that post was even talking about anything like skill or being good/bad at the game.

 

 

And nice dodge on the first paragarph, because it doesn't fit the picture you're trying to draw here 🙄

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Yggranya.5201 said:

If we go by your post history, you're exactly what they are talking about and then some.

Nice strawman, but I already wrote how and with whom I raid, so you're wrong, whether you like it or not. Your opinion about my forum posts has nothing to do with anything here. 

Quote

What I can do is participate in raids in squads with good atmosphere while not locking people from joining or insulting them for not instantly succeeding. And that's the approach I have as well as many other random people with whom I'm raiding. I'm missing whatever point you're trying to make here in an attempt to put a blame for some people in the community on me (and/or other people that participate in raid content).

 

I can guarantee I didn't rage/flame/insta-leave the raid once, ever -no matter how much you'd apparently hope I did to push your opinion here lol.

[syNN.8529]

So, to put OPs request into perspective: you're asking for an alternative way of aquiring legendary gear (armor in this case). So far so good. When asked about a way to implement and requirements you're asking for 66h of doing stuff you actually like instead of 33h of things you borderline dislike, right?

 

That perception itself is far from reality. I get ppl dont want to play certain game modes. For BiS you dont need to. Ascended gear is fine as it has same stats. Aquiring a set costs around 60-100g. Just by logging in you get gold in form of mystic coins. Putting in the 10 minutes of effort a day to get your daily 2g is not too much to ask for, is it? That leaves you with one set of ascended gear in one month with least effort possible.

 

Someone else said that he is "too bad" to do t4 fractals. Honestly that content had been soloed, no question, obv by elitists but it is to show that 5man content is not tjat hard if you can solo it. And honestly: if you cant play your class, if you dont play a build that works, BiS gear will not change that. In fact you'd better put in the effort to look for a build, practice it and do it with less optimal gear. It will still perform better than BiS gear with non working builds or badly played characters. 

 

Asking for a set of legy armor for 66h and then being like "i dont understand why everyone is toxic, why is there such a strong response to that. Its about you since you dont want me to access it." 

 

Doing pvp armor takes roughly 2500 to 3000 games. Lets assume a game lasts 7,5 minutes. This will then leave you with roughly 300 hours of playing pvp best case. 

 

PvE armor is gated behind 10 weeks of doing full clears, which is in mediocre groups 5-6h effort per week. So 60h of effort worst case. But you can not ignore the fact that in order to achieve this within that amount of time you have to put in more effort. You have to learn your class, you have to learn boss mechnics, all that takes additional time. Its not about elitism, it is about effort and reward. If you claim yourself to be bad at stuff then why dont you change it. Noone is a born god at anything. If elitists performance is high, they most likely have played hours, practiced hours, raided bosses several times a week. Skill doesnt fall out of the clouds

 

You want a way to do it open world. So comparing the difficulty levels it would be more in the league of pvp where you just have to play it, right? Achieving a full set of armor in doing some achievements in 66h of effort would just be a slap in the face for everyone making the effort to do the pvp one. If the open world legy armor would be spmething around 300-400h of effort that whole topic would be different, since the "cost" would be roughly the same. 

 

Having that kind of opportunity for that would highly devalue all the other legy sets since most ppl are doing it for the utility. Most ppl i know transmuted their armor, this is fashion wars after all! Noone would ever do wvw, raids or pvp legies if the effort for that one would be so low. 

 

Comparing to real world: i want that huge mansion to live in. Pure luxury, everything golden. But i dont wanna work. I wanna sit on the couch and do things i like, e.g. watching tv. I dont mind watching 66h of tv instead of going to work for 33h. 

 

It's not to mock anyone. But sometimes you need a different perspective on things.

 

Sorry for bad english. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

....what? 😆  No, it's not. What are you even talking about again? Where did I imply anyone's bad? I think you misunderstand the use of that word in my post.

Nothing in that post was even talking about anything like skill or being good/bad at the game.

 

 

And nice dodge on the first paragarph, because it doesn't fit the picture you're trying to draw here 🙄

 

 

These people here read what they want to read. They don't want a constructive discussion. Only someone they can blame. So that they don't have to admit to being the toxic side themselves ...

This is the forum after all. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

28 minutes ago, syNN.8529 said:

So, to put OPs request into perspective: you're asking for an alternative way of aquiring legendary gear (armor in this case). So far so good. When asked about a way to implement and requirements you're asking for 66h of doing stuff you actually like instead of 33h of things you borderline dislike, right?

 

That perception itself is far from reality. I get ppl dont want to play certain game modes. For BiS you dont need to. Ascended gear is fine as it has same stats. Aquiring a set costs around 60-100g. Just by logging in you get gold in form of mystic coins. Putting in the 10 minutes of effort a day to get your daily 2g is not too much to ask for, is it? That leaves you with one set of ascended gear in one month with least effort possible.

 

Someone else said that he is "too bad" to do t4 fractals. Honestly that content had been soloed, no question, obv by elitists but it is to show that 5man content is not tjat hard if you can solo it. And honestly: if you cant play your class, if you dont play a build that works, BiS gear will not change that. In fact you'd better put in the effort to look for a build, practice it and do it with less optimal gear. It will still perform better than BiS gear with non working builds or badly played characters. 

 

Asking for a set of legy armor for 66h and then being like "i dont understand why everyone is toxic, why is there such a strong response to that. Its about you since you dont want me to access it." 

 

Doing pvp armor takes roughly 2500 to 3000 games. Lets assume a game lasts 7,5 minutes. This will then leave you with roughly 300 hours of playing pvp best case. 

 

PvE armor is gated behind 10 weeks of doing full clears, which is in mediocre groups 5-6h effort per week. So 60h of effort worst case. But you can not ignore the fact that in order to achieve this within that amount of time you have to put in more effort. You have to learn your class, you have to learn boss mechnics, all that takes additional time. Its not about elitism, it is about effort and reward. If you claim yourself to be bad at stuff then why dont you change it. Noone is a born god at anything. If elitists performance is high, they most likely have played hours, practiced hours, raided bosses several times a week. Skill doesnt fall out of the clouds

 

You want a way to do it open world. So comparing the difficulty levels it would be more in the league of pvp where you just have to play it, right? Achieving a full set of armor in doing some achievements in 66h of effort would just be a slap in the face for everyone making the effort to do the pvp one. If the open world legy armor would be spmething around 300-400h of effort that whole topic would be different, since the "cost" would be roughly the same. 

 

Having that kind of opportunity for that would highly devalue all the other legy sets since most ppl are doing it for the utility. Most ppl i know transmuted their armor, this is fashion wars after all! Noone would ever do wvw, raids or pvp legies if the effort for that one would be so low. 

 

Comparing to real world: i want that huge mansion to live in. Pure luxury, everything golden. But i dont wanna work. I wanna sit on the couch and do things i like, e.g. watching tv. I dont mind watching 66h of tv instead of going to work for 33h. 

 

It's not to mock anyone. But sometimes you need a different perspective on things.

 

Sorry for bad english. 

 

These topics have often been asked how people imagine it, including by me. And it always comes down to the point that people want low effort. Couple achievmwnts like the legy weapons, bit of goldsink and that's it.

What you write is a good point, but from the people here probably again considered toxic and elitist uu.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639

[mindcircus.1506]

20 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Yes ascended cost gold if you have gold you can get ascended, gold is hard to make in this game. If im able to log in everyday I can make 60 gold a month, thats a pittance of what it cost to make full ascended. But im fine with it. How about they add a random legendary as random drops off bosses, big events ect in EoD? I really dont see why that is an issue, just another way to get rewards?

If you are only logging in to get Login rewards and do dailies (which takes all of 15 minutes) you are making more than that.

Your Login rewards +60g from the dailies. You know.... 60g plus 20 mystic coins and 35 Laurels.

 

If your engagement with the game  the game is only 15 mins a day how are you justifying a need for BiS gear anyways?

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 hour ago, syNN.8529 said:

So, to put OPs request into perspective: you're asking for an alternative way of aquiring legendary gear (armor in this case). So far so good. When asked about a way to implement and requirements you're asking for 66h of doing stuff you actually like instead of 33h of things you borderline dislike, right?

 

That perception itself is far from reality. I get ppl dont want to play certain game modes. For BiS you dont need to. Ascended gear is fine as it has same stats. Aquiring a set costs around 60-100g. Just by logging in you get gold in form of mystic coins. Putting in the 10 minutes of effort a day to get your daily 2g is not too much to ask for, is it? That leaves you with one set of ascended gear in one month with least effort possible.

 

Someone else said that he is "too bad" to do t4 fractals. Honestly that content had been soloed, no question, obv by elitists but it is to show that 5man content is not tjat hard if you can solo it. And honestly: if you cant play your class, if you dont play a build that works, BiS gear will not change that. In fact you'd better put in the effort to look for a build, practice it and do it with less optimal gear. It will still perform better than BiS gear with non working builds or badly played characters. 

 

Asking for a set of legy armor for 66h and then being like "i dont understand why everyone is toxic, why is there such a strong response to that. Its about you since you dont want me to access it." 

 

Doing pvp armor takes roughly 2500 to 3000 games. Lets assume a game lasts 7,5 minutes. This will then leave you with roughly 300 hours of playing pvp best case. 

 

PvE armor is gated behind 10 weeks of doing full clears, which is in mediocre groups 5-6h effort per week. So 60h of effort worst case. But you can not ignore the fact that in order to achieve this within that amount of time you have to put in more effort. You have to learn your class, you have to learn boss mechnics, all that takes additional time. Its not about elitism, it is about effort and reward. If you claim yourself to be bad at stuff then why dont you change it. Noone is a born god at anything. If elitists performance is high, they most likely have played hours, practiced hours, raided bosses several times a week. Skill doesnt fall out of the clouds

 

You want a way to do it open world. So comparing the difficulty levels it would be more in the league of pvp where you just have to play it, right? Achieving a full set of armor in doing some achievements in 66h of effort would just be a slap in the face for everyone making the effort to do the pvp one. If the open world legy armor would be spmething around 300-400h of effort that whole topic would be different, since the "cost" would be roughly the same. 

 

Having that kind of opportunity for that would highly devalue all the other legy sets since most ppl are doing it for the utility. Most ppl i know transmuted their armor, this is fashion wars after all! Noone would ever do wvw, raids or pvp legies if the effort for that one would be so low. 

 

Comparing to real world: i want that huge mansion to live in. Pure luxury, everything golden. But i dont wanna work. I wanna sit on the couch and do things i like, e.g. watching tv. I dont mind watching 66h of tv instead of going to work for 33h. 

 

It's not to mock anyone. But sometimes you need a different perspective on things.

 

Sorry for bad english. 

Biggest problem with the core of this whole post is: I play GW2 for fun, to relax, and to enjoy content.  Why would I want to be kittening miserable playing this game, even if it's only 1 night a week for 30 weeks?  I'm able to slowly work toward Legendary Weapons without struggling through content I hate (exception maybe being if a person really hated wvw, they still hafta get the Gift of Battle, but that's not 30 weeks of work).  Why is legendary armor so much ridiculously challenging?

[hash.8462]

42 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Biggest problem with the core of this whole post is: I play GW2 for fun, to relax, and to enjoy content.  Why would I want to be kittening miserable playing this game, even if it's only 1 night a week for 30 weeks?  I'm able to slowly work toward Legendary Weapons without struggling through content I hate (exception maybe being if a person really hated wvw, they still hafta get the Gift of Battle, but that's not 30 weeks of work).  Why is legendary armor so much ridiculously challenging?

Well, the difference is even bigger than that since you can just buy legendary weapons at TP.

Edited July 18, 2021 by hash.8462

[Endilbiach.4132]

5 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

Well, the difference is even bigger than that since you can just buy legendary weapons at TP.

 

Not gen 2, but I'll cede that point.

[syNN.8529]

1 hour ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Biggest problem with the core of this whole post is: I play GW2 for fun, to relax, and to enjoy content.  Why would I want to be kittening miserable playing this game, even if it's only 1 night a week for 30 weeks?  I'm able to slowly work toward Legendary Weapons without struggling through content I hate (exception maybe being if a person really hated wvw, they still hafta get the Gift of Battle, but that's not 30 weeks of work).  Why is legendary armor so much ridiculously challenging?

Okay, but then i do not understand why you'd need legy armor if you're playing for fun. It doesnt benefit your style of play anyways. If you are playing for fun, not caring about putting in the effort to "git gud" because, you know, this is too tedious, then why bothering to get legy armor at all? The benefit is minimal, the effort outweighs the use you can take out of it. 

 

Imo you would be better off ignoring that armor exists. Gather legy weapons for skins. Legy armor is made for high end gameplay, such as raids, where you need to fine tune your build regarding to encounters. For doing octovine it doesnt matter if you do it with berserker stats or ministrel/soldiers stats, its most likely not gonna change how "good" you'll play it. In fact, if you consider yourself a "bad player" soldiers stats provide more survivability, so u'd actually even be better off having a cheap ascended or even exotic alternative. 

 

As i stated before: you dont NEED even ascended, which is also BiS, gear. It doesnt make a large difference in lets say dps output if you dont put in the effort to learn class and encounter. Gear doesnt amplify your dmg, you will not sky rocket the dps meter into oblivion, just by swapping stats. This game requires you to understand your class and then work with traits and skills that benfit each other. This is what will make your game  more fluent and enjoyable. 

[Endilbiach.4132]

33 minutes ago, syNN.8529 said:

Okay, but then i do not understand why you'd need legy armor if you're playing for fun. It doesnt benefit your style of play anyways. If you are playing for fun, not caring about putting in the effort to "git gud" because, you know, this is too tedious, then why bothering to get legy armor at all? The benefit is minimal, the effort outweighs the use you can take out of it. 

 

Imo you would be better off ignoring that armor exists. Gather legy weapons for skins. Legy armor is made for high end gameplay, such as raids, where you need to fine tune your build regarding to encounters. For doing octovine it doesnt matter if you do it with berserker stats or ministrel/soldiers stats, its most likely not gonna change how "good" you'll play it. In fact, if you consider yourself a "bad player" soldiers stats provide more survivability, so u'd actually even be better off having a cheap ascended or even exotic alternative. 

 

As i stated before: you dont NEED even ascended, which is also BiS, gear. It doesnt make a large difference in lets say dps output if you dont put in the effort to learn class and encounter. Gear doesnt amplify your dmg, you will not sky rocket the dps meter into oblivion, just by swapping stats. This game requires you to understand your class and then work with traits and skills that benfit each other. This is what will make your game  more fluent and enjoyable. 

 

Sure it does.  I sit down and decide I want to try a new build.  That takes investment, sometimes only a few gold if I'm lucky and want zerkers, sometimes days of work if I want a celestial set.  The thing is, I always like trying new builds, but I frequently can't because I can't chuck 40g a week at trying new builds constantly.  The greatest benefit of leggie gear is simply being able to switch to whatever I want, whenever I want.  I don't engage in any content that's tweaked up enough to demand me to even have higher than exotic gear on.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

2 hours ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Biggest problem with the core of this whole post is: I play GW2 for fun, to relax, and to enjoy content.  Why would I want to be kittening miserable playing this game, even if it's only 1 night a week for 30 weeks?  I'm able to slowly work toward Legendary Weapons without struggling through content I hate (exception maybe being if a person really hated wvw, they still hafta get the Gift of Battle, but that's not 30 weeks of work).  Why is legendary armor so much ridiculously challenging?

You said something really interesting here and I think it's a good thing to point out. You said "why would I want to be miserable...... struggling through content I hate". This is important because while you hate it, the content is not universally hated. So many people love the content and doing it every week with friends etc. While others might hate the existing legendary weapon grind. Art and enjoyment is subjective and I wouldn't blame you for not enjoying the content if you say you don't enjoy it. I'm not trying to come off as harsh or attacky because I'm not meaning it that way. However, that line of thinking is very "me" focused in a game designed to be enjoyed by millions. I'm not sure any aspect of the game could be designed around every individuals preferences for reward balance. 

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 minute ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

You said something really interesting here and I think it's a good thing to point out. You said "why would I want to be miserable...... struggling through content I hate". This is important because while you hate it, the content is not universally hated. So many people love the content and doing it every week with friends etc. While others might hate the existing legendary weapon grind. Art and enjoyment is subjective and I wouldn't blame you for not enjoying the content if you say you don't enjoy it. I'm not trying to come off as harsh or attacky because I'm not meaning it that way. However, that line of thinking is very "me" focused in a game designed to be enjoyed by millions. I'm not sure any aspect of the game could be designed around every individuals preferences for reward balance. 

 

Yes, but huge swathes of players don't like raids, I'd estimate about 90% of the playerbase never touches them.  WvW at the moment is THE most approachable path, and that still limits you to a fairly strict set of parameters for quite a long time to earn yourself a suit of armor (22 weeks for the cheap one).  PvP is even more limiting, as there's almost no variety to what you're ultimately doing when you're doing pvp.  What I'm asking for is a new, more approachable route to a new suit of legendary armor that doesn't require long hauls inside game modes that are moderately (wvw) to severely (pvp) restricting in regards to what you can actually do gameplay-wise.