New path to legendary armor?

[Krzysztof.5973]

I'm gonna be blunt. As of right now you have 3 avenues for acquiring legendary armor. If you are unable/unwilling to put in the necessary effort - you do not need it badly enough. 

[hash.8462]

28 minutes ago, syNN.8529 said:

Okay, but then i do not understand why you'd need legy armor if you're playing for fun. It doesnt benefit your style of play anyways. If you are playing for fun, not caring about putting in the effort to "git gud" because, you know, this is too tedious, then why bothering to get legy armor at all? The benefit is minimal, the effort outweighs the use you can take out of it. 

 

Imo you would be better off ignoring that armor exists. Gather legy weapons for skins. Legy armor is made for high end gameplay, such as raids, where you need to fine tune your build regarding to encounters. For doing octovine it doesnt matter if you do it with berserker stats or ministrel/soldiers stats, its most likely not gonna change how "good" you'll play it. In fact, if you consider yourself a "bad player" soldiers stats provide more survivability, so u'd actually even be better off having a cheap ascended or even exotic alternative. 

 

As i stated before: you dont NEED even ascended, which is also BiS, gear. It doesnt make a large difference in lets say dps output if you dont put in the effort to learn class and encounter. Gear doesnt amplify your dmg, you will not sky rocket the dps meter into oblivion, just by swapping stats. This game requires you to understand your class and then work with traits and skills that benfit each other. This is what will make your game  more fluent and enjoyable. 

Well you can also play and complete Raids with exotic equip. Ascended are only required in Fractal.

 

But more importatly, why every time that an example has to come up is always with a meta event where wou can just press #1 and do some dodge?  You think PvE is only that?

In many situations you have to play alone or with random casual player that is around (story, achievements, a lot of champions or collections are just an example), and often you want to change your build and equipmet to one that suits better the situation.

Has never happened to you to have to kill Risen High Wizard for some weapon collection alone because no one is around?

A guildmate never asked for help with some HoT Heropoints? (Balthazar and NewBorn Mishroom are soloable if you have the right build and know what to do, and no, raid dps builds are none like that).

Same for daily PoF bounty, DRM CM, or many other contents, never been in the situation where you have to do them alone?

Well, starnge to say but happens often to me, and I use the most suited build and do it by myself if I have to.

Just to say that Open PvE is not only 1,1,1,1,1,1,1.

[MarkoGold.7126]

1 hour ago, syNN.8529 said:

Okay, but then i do not understand why you'd need legy armor if you're playing for fun. It doesnt benefit your style of play anyways. If you are playing for fun, not caring about putting in the effort to "git gud" because, you know, this is too tedious, then why bothering to get legy armor at all? The benefit is minimal, the effort outweighs the use you can take out of it. 

 

Imo you would be better off ignoring that armor exists. Gather legy weapons for skins. Legy armor is made for high end gameplay, such as raids, where you need to fine tune your build regarding to encounters. For doing octovine it doesnt matter if you do it with berserker stats or ministrel/soldiers stats, its most likely not gonna change how "good" you'll play it. In fact, if you consider yourself a "bad player" soldiers stats provide more survivability, so u'd actually even be better off having a cheap ascended or even exotic alternative. 

 

As i stated before: you dont NEED even ascended, which is also BiS, gear. It doesnt make a large difference in lets say dps output if you dont put in the effort to learn class and encounter. Gear doesnt amplify your dmg, you will not sky rocket the dps meter into oblivion, just by swapping stats. This game requires you to understand your class and then work with traits and skills that benfit each other. This is what will make your game  more fluent and enjoyable. 

Bro most of the posters in this thread think that legendary armor should cost like 10 gold to get, any more then that is toxic and elitistic, imagine actually having to do raids for the best armor the heresy!

Edited July 18, 2021 by MarkoGold.7126

[MarkoGold.7126]

1 hour ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

Sure it does.  I sit down and decide I want to try a new build.  That takes investment, sometimes only a few gold if I'm lucky and want zerkers, sometimes days of work if I want a celestial set.  The thing is, I always like trying new builds, but I frequently can't because I can't chuck 40g a week at trying new builds constantly.  The greatest benefit of leggie gear is simply being able to switch to whatever I want, whenever I want.  I don't engage in any content that's tweaked up enough to demand me to even have higher than exotic gear on.

then you dont need legendary armor just get exotics.

[syNN.8529]

1 hour ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

Sure it does.  I sit down and decide I want to try a new build.  That takes investment, sometimes only a few gold if I'm lucky and want zerkers, sometimes days of work if I want a celestial set.  The thing is, I always like trying new builds, but I frequently can't because I can't chuck 40g a week at trying new builds constantly.  The greatest benefit of leggie gear is simply being able to switch to whatever I want, whenever I want.  I don't engage in any content that's tweaked up enough to demand me to even have higher than exotic gear on.

as i said before: it doesnt require the perfect gear to make a build work, at least for 99,9% of the builds you can play with imperfect gear and still perform, if you play the class accordingly. having then the right stats will improve your dmg by 15%-ish. a poorly played class will still perform poorly with BiS gear. my humble advice would be, to just take whatever gear you have lying around and test the build. once rotation and stuff fits and you like it, you can put in the effort to get your proper gear.

as you stated before, you are just playing content that doesnt even require higher than exotic gear. and you'd be terribly bad in gathering information that this gear is borderline easy to come by.

 

1 hour ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

Yes, but huge swathes of players don't like raids, I'd estimate about 90% of the playerbase never touches them.  WvW at the moment is THE most approachable path, and that still limits you to a fairly strict set of parameters for quite a long time to earn yourself a suit of armor (22 weeks for the cheap one).  PvP is even more limiting, as there's almost no variety to what you're ultimately doing when you're doing pvp.  What I'm asking for is a new, more approachable route to a new suit of legendary armor that doesn't require long hauls inside game modes that are moderately (wvw) to severely (pvp) restricting in regards to what you can actually do gameplay-wise.

i'd like to know where those numbers come from. my observation shows that at least 80% of my friendslist have raided. more than 90% of my guild has raided before. so i'd like to know where this assumption is coming from, what is it backed by?

all i can get out of your post is "i want a ferari, but i will only pay 500 bucks for it." i'm sorry to shatter your dreams, if you want something you have to work for it, this is how the world (at least our western) works.

pvp is by no means limiting. you just play it and you will eventually get the reward. there is no skill tied to it other than patience.

 

i do understand that there could be more ways to achieve LEGENDARY armor. and as the name indicates, it is LEGENDARY and NOT COMMON armor. if you want easy achievable armor, go with blue or green gear. also getting correct stats on it is cheap aswell.

 

49 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

Well you can also play and complete Raids with exotic equip. Ascended are only required in Fractal.

 

But more importatly, why every time that an example has to come up is always with a meta event where wou can just press #1 and do some dodge?  You think PvE is only that?

In many situations you have to play alone or with random casual player that is around (story, achievements, a lot of champions or collections are just an example), and often you want to change your build and equipmet to one that suits better the situation.

Has never happened to you to have to kill Risen High Wizard for some weapon collection alone because no one is around?

A guildmate never asked for help with some HoT Heropoints? (Balthazar and NewBorn Mishroom are soloable if you have the right build and know what to do, and no, raid dps builds are none like that).

Same for daily PoF bounty, DRM CM, or many other contents, never been in the situation where you have to do them alone?

Well, starnge to say but happens often to me, and I use the most suited build and do it by myself if I have to.

Just to say that Open PvE is not only 1,1,1,1,1,1,1.

 thats true, but also HoT are not meant to be soloed, yet it is possible if you are not a complete donkey. yes there is other stuff that requires you to.... wait for it.... dodge.... or use your class properly. yes changing stats comes in handy but it will never ever make up for a poorly played class. yes it benefits those, that can play their class, that know what they are doing. but as OP said. he is doing easy stuff, which doesnt require that kind of flexability.

all this has nothing to do with elitism or toxicity. it's common sense. if you are living 2 minutes away from work, you will not by a helicopter to skip traffic. you'll just go there by foot. that's it.

you are not buying a race car if you are not racing other than for showing off. if you still by a race car you cant complain about how expensive it is compared to your every day car that costs a fraction of the price. it's just beyond stupid to argue about that.

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

These topics have often been asked how people imagine it, including by me. And it always comes down to the point that people want low effort. Couple achievmwnts like the legy weapons, bit of goldsink and that's it.

Glad to know you consider my suggestion of 30k AP legendary set to be "low effort". That really put it in perspective.

 

 

2 hours ago, syNN.8529 said:

Okay, but then i do not understand why you'd need legy armor if you're playing for fun.

And i don't understand why would anyone play Raids for fun. And yet some people do. It just proves that not everyone likes the same things, and us not understanding why some people do something does not invalidate their needs, likes and desires.

 

Quote

It doesnt benefit your style of play anyways. If you are playing for fun, not caring about putting in the effort to "git gud" because, you know, this is too tedious, then why bothering to get legy armor at all? The benefit is minimal, the effort outweighs the use you can take out of it. 

For me it's because i am a completionist and like collecting shiny stuff. Also, i do use the stat-switching feature on legendary stuff actually, even when i am not playing the top tier difficulty content (although, for legendaries, this is a secondary issue for me). And, of course, the added new QoL of free transmutations is very welcome.

 

Quote

Legy armor is made for high end gameplay, such as raids, where you need to fine tune your build regarding to encounters.

If that was the whole answer, the Envoy set would have been skinless in the same way WvW and SPvP sets are.

 

Quote

For doing octovine it doesnt matter if you do it with berserker stats or ministrel/soldiers stats, its most likely not gonna change how "good" you'll play it.

It may not matter to you (except of course people that say that it doesn;t matter in OW are often the first to complain about low dps of players in OW events...). It does matter to me. I have been very careful about making builds from me from the very beginning of the game, shortly after i hit level 80. Even if those builds were then often very different than the ones used by speedrunners/meta players.

 

Quote

In fact, if you consider yourself a "bad player" soldiers stats provide more survivability, so u'd actually even be better off having a cheap ascended or even exotic alternative. 

Soldier stats as much an option in legendaries as berserkers are. Just saying.

 

 

Quote

As i stated before: you dont NEED even ascended, which is also BiS, gear.

There's a ton of things people don't strictly need in this game. Legendary gear is one of those (for everyone - it's not like Raiders or WvW players need it. And SPvP players need it even less, considering they don't even use the stat system from gear). Legendary is a pure "want" case - and why someone might want them changes from person to person.

 

And there has been a lot of good arguments that you don't need ascended for raids either (because, you know, "you can do it in greens"). So, you might be a little more careful about stating who needs what and who doesn't.

 

 

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

So many people love the content and doing it every week with friends etc.

Apparently, according to devs, not enough to justify further development. So, i guess, not that many.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Voltekka.2375]

People forget the massive whining that came with the 2 OW leggy trinkets. Imagine anet implementing THE toughest jps (chalice of tears, Draconis Mons) without mesmer help. Oh man, the kittenstorm would be epic.

Imagine anet giving us an OW leggy armor crafting path that would require T4-CM fractals, rare and very expensive collections (i am looking at you, master of draconic Ice/fire), hard jps without outside help, you get the picture. Would be fair, right? Unless people think pve raiders/wvwers/pvpers had their legendary armors given to them just by logging in. After all, raiders had to spend loads of time+money to get kills and to learn the encounters, wvwers as well (in the least lucrative mode, no less), pvpers dealing with the toxicity and oof pvp is in its current state. 

So, yeah, i would be in favor of a leggy OW armorset. Make it timegated, expensive, hard to make.

It IS a legendary, after all, is it not?

 

[hash.8462]

3 hours ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

Bro most of the posters in this thread think that legendary armor should cost like 10 gold to get, any more then that is toxic and elitistic, imagine actually having to do raids for the best armor the heresy!

This is just trolling...

The author did not ask for that, but for a legendary armor obtainable in the similar way of the "late 2nd gen weapons" (the ones that you only have to craft), and for tokens to get them just by playing in PvE as you like (similar to the WvW and structured PvP concept).

On this I also don't agree, I'm more for the "earlier 2nd gen weapons" where you also need some sort of collection (hard but not impossible) and, if possible it need to be a personal achievement where no one else can help you to do (you can buy raid runs, but for some achievement of the collenction you must stay alive until the end!)

 

1 hour ago, Voltekka.2375 said:

People forget the massive whining that came with the 2 OW leggy trinkets. Imagine anet implementing THE toughest jps (chalice of tears, Draconis Mons) without mesmer help. Oh man, the kittenstorm would be epic.

Imagine anet giving us an OW leggy armor crafting path that would require T4-CM fractals, rare and very expensive collections (i am looking at you, master of draconic Ice/fire), hard jps without outside help, you get the picture. Would be fair, right? Unless people think pve raiders/wvwers/pvpers had their legendary armors given to them just by logging in. After all, raiders had to spend loads of time+money to get kills and to learn the encounters, wvwers as well (in the least lucrative mode, no less), pvpers dealing with the toxicity and oof pvp is in its current state. 

So, yeah, i would be in favor of a leggy OW armorset. Make it timegated, expensive, hard to make.

It IS a legendary, after all, is it not?

 

 

Make it timegated, expensive, hard to make is ok for me.

- Fractal CM can be done but will have the same problem of Raids, I'm more for doing all normal T4 with some new CM like you have to finish it without getting downed or die (/gg is also not allowed);

- Master of draconic Ice/fire is a weapon collection so no, maybe something similar to it (don't need to be something already in the game) or maybe precursor crafting process can be something like that;

- Redoing all JP instanced so no one can help? Personally that would be great (also no mount/glider, Retrospective Runaround JP would be great again), but only for the collection of one piece, all other 6 pieces should also have something like that... yes, I'm including the aquabreather, what about redoing all dives and underwater JP for that one?

- I also like the idea someone before posted of needing the pieces of hellfire or radiant skin unlocked (when you unlock shoulders you can begin your journey to that legendary piece).

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by hash.8462

[Flapjackson.1596]

5 hours ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

What I'm asking for is a new, more approachable route to a new suit of legendary armor that doesn't require long hauls inside game modes that are moderately (wvw) to severely (pvp) restricting in regards to what you can actually do gameplay-wise.

I’m not necessarily opposed to the OP’s idea of a second set of PvE legendary armor but consider two points:

1. Rewards are always a balancing act of time invested and skill. As you have requested a set where the skill required is essentially zero, the time investment with be massive, a significantly longer haul than the long hauls you are trying to avoid. On top of that, the cost of materials for this set will add an additional huge time investment as the ultra casual play style is not a highly profitable one. Consider if you are interested enough in this item to justify possible years of time to get it. 
2. Going off that point, for anyone who wants an OW legendary armor set, consider that the game making a reward to fit your level of comfort and engagement is not the only option here. There is a wonderful opportunity here to go outside of your comfort zone and to experience personal growth in the game, to explore content you might otherwise ignore. One great thing about prestige rewards in games is that the desire for it can encourage you to better yourself at whatever game to achieve it. Why do devs develop aspirational content if not to encourage us to aspire to improve?
 

If a player spends the same time required on an OW legendary armor instead on improving their play, learning the game fully, and challenging themselves in progressively harder content, then not only will you still be on a path to acquire armor, but you’ll also be at that point a better player with more content accessible to play! The game has given you both a reward and opened more of it you.

[Obtena.7952]

This is pretty simple. If fewer people have interest in the game content, then fewer people participate in the game. 

 

While I understand we can't have many dozens of ways to get legendary armor to please everyone, people need to stop thinking of that armor as some kind of elite status symbol and not consider additional methods to obtain it. It's content and the more people that have a path to get that armor means the more sustained game interest by the people that play it. Isn't that the point of BiS gear in the first place?

 

I think it's actually kind of stupid; Anet puts the work into creating this process and this armor and now the armory. Why WOULDN'T they consider a more 'casual' approach for people to get it? It's not even that we need a whole new approach ... there are just certain ingredients that need to be alternate paths. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

While I understand we can't have many dozens of ways to get legendary armor to please everyone, people need to stop thinking of that armor as...

People need to stop thinking that legendary gear is something they need to have no matter what they do in the game.

 

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's content

Yes and they need to complete related content to obtain the rewards. Not a new concept in games.

 

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

and the more people that have a path to get that armor means the more sustained game interest by the people that play it.

Claiming that the game interest relies on the easier way of obtaining legendary gear (that's not really needed for anything as it doesn't increase power) is misguided to say the least.

 

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Isn't that the point of BiS gear in the first place?

BiS is about the stats and not about rarity, so getting ""correct"" ascended gear is already BiS.

 

[Zalavaaris.5329]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Glad to know you consider my suggestion of 30k AP legendary set to be "low effort". That really put it in perspective.

 

 

And i don't understand why would anyone play Raids for fun. And yet some people do. It just proves that not everyone likes the same things, and us not understanding why some people do something does not invalidate their needs, likes and desires.

 

For me it's because i am a completionist and like collecting shiny stuff. Also, i do use the stat-switching feature on legendary stuff actually, even when i am not playing the top tier difficulty content (although, for legendaries, this is a secondary issue for me). And, of course, the added new QoL of free transmutations is very welcome.

 

If that was the whole answer, the Envoy set would have been skinless in the same way WvW and SPvP sets are.

 

It may not matter to you (except of course people that say that it doesn;t matter in OW are often the first to complain about low dps of players in OW events...). It does matter to me. I have been very careful about making builds from me from the very beginning of the game, shortly after i hit level 80. Even if those builds were then often very different than the ones used by speedrunners/meta players.

 

Soldier stats as much an option in legendaries as berserkers are. Just saying.

 

 

There's a ton of things people don't strictly need in this game. Legendary gear is one of those (for everyone - it's not like Raiders or WvW players need it. And SPvP players need it even less, considering they don't even use the stat system from gear). Legendary is a pure "want" case - and why someone might want them changes from person to person.

 

And there has been a lot of good arguments that you don't need ascended for raids either (because, you know, "you can do it in greens"). So, you might be a little more careful about stating who needs what and who doesn't.

 

 

Apparently, according to devs, not enough to justify further development. So, i guess, not that many.

 

 

You dont think they are making any more raids? Think the 7 wings are all they will do? I havent seen the devs say they are done with development. There's a huge content drought I'll give you that but other than living world where in the game isn't suffering from that? That's not an indication of player enjoyment. When they announced raids they announced it as the ultimate instanced challenge for pve in gw2. Legendary armor is the reward for that content. It's as simple as do the content get the armor. Don't do the content don't get the armor. Why is it that I never hear raiders say they would love to make the pvp back piece but don't want to be forced to pvp? I never heard hardcore pvpers saying they wish they could get ad infinitum. If you don't pvp, don't raid, don't do fractals, and don't do wvw what do you do? I'm not asking in a judgemental way, what I'm doing is establishing what content you're doing. If it's just open world stuff, im sorry but there's nothing legendary about that. It's the lowest common denominator with regards to content difficulty. That isn't a personal attack, it's just how the games designed. I raid with a guy who lost 6 fingers working..... the man has 4 fingers and still raids... you can do it if you put in effort. 

 

Edit: I need to add to this, there is a legendary for the story content. It's a legendary neck piece. If you don't like the story content you won't finish it. Same with aurora and vision. You know what content I absolutely hate doing?!? Open world stuff and story... just finished aurora a couple weeks ago and now working on vision. Wanna know why I'm doing content I hate? Because I want the reward. This is the pve content and open world content that leads to legendaries. And you can put the confused emoji on my post if you want to because you don't like it but it doesn't make it not true. Now go play the game and get what you want. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

People need to stop thinking that legendary gear is something they need to have no matter what they do in the game.

 

Yes and they need to complete related content to obtain the rewards. Not a new concept in games.

 

Claiming that the game interest relies on the easier way of obtaining legendary gear (that's not really needed for anything as it doesn't increase power) is misguided to say the least.

 

BiS is about the stats and not about rarity, so getting ""correct"" ascended gear is already BiS.

 

That's all true, but none of that changes what I said either. Legendary gear is simply a bit of content that isn't really open for the casual player and an option for Anet to consider widening based on how much effort they have put into introducing leg. gear in the game. I mean, I don't really have a horse in this race cause I'm drowning in all kinds of ascended armors already. To be frank, any other casual player isn't the audience for this ... yes, they don't need it, but people getting things in this game isn't about need, it's about getting them to continue playing the game. There are lots of things in the game that are simply there because people like to get them, not because they need them.

 

I see that legendary gear isn't very prevalent with casual players. It seems like a wasted opportunity for Anet to engage these players with this content. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Zalavaaris.5329]

19 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's all true, but none of that changes what I said either. Legendary gear is simply a bit of content that isn't really open for the casual player and an option for Anet to consider widening based on how much effort they have put into introducing it in the game. I mean, I don't really have a horse in this race and really doesn't any other casual player ... yes, they don't need it, but people getting things in this game isn't about need, it's about getting them to continue playing the game. I see that legendary gear isn't very prevalent with casual players. It seems like a wasted opportunity for Anet to engage these players with this content. 

I'm a casual player.  I get very limited time to play the game.  I'm a nursing student which takes priority, ill be a dad in 3ish weeks, and I still raid in WoW as well. I get a couple hours a week to kill and I'll raid in gw2. Casual has nothing to do with it.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

You dont think they are making any more raids? Think the 7 wings are all they will do? I havent seen the devs say they are done with development.

You might have not been paying attention. It's been over a year (or was it two years already?) since we've heard from them that the raid population simply cannot justify putting more resources in it. cannot find the link to the post at the moment, but it's not something hidden away. A large part of the Raid community is completely aware of it, and has been for a long time (although some are probably just hoping it's something temporary and Anet devs will eventually change their mind).

 

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

There's a huge content drought I'll give you that but other than living world where in the game isn't suffering from that? That's not an indication of player enjoyment. When they announced raids they announced it as the ultimate instanced challenge for pve in gw2. Legendary armor is the reward for that content. It's as simple as do the content get the armor. Don't do the content don't get the armor.

That specific armor. Envoy set. They never mentioned that there won't be other sets though. They just said they weren't planning making any more at the moment. Besides, if you were right, WvW and SPvP armor sets would not exist.

 

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Why is it that I never hear raiders say they would love to make the pvp back piece but don't want to be forced to pvp?

Because they can get Ad Infinitum easily.

 

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

I never heard hardcore pvpers saying they wish they could get ad infinitum.

Because they already have a legendary backpack of their own.

 

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

If you don't pvp, don't raid, don't do fractals, and don't do wvw what do you do? I'm not asking in a judgemental way, what I'm doing is establishing what content you're doing. If it's just open world stuff, im sorry but there's nothing legendary about that. It's the lowest common denominator with regards to content difficulty. That isn't a personal attack, it's just how the games designed. I raid with a guy who lost 6 fingers working..... the man has 4 fingers and still raids... you can do it if you put in effort. 

As i mentioned in many other threads, i already have raid legendary armor, thank you very much. It's not about me, personally, trying to push devs into making it available for me. It's me pointing out that a huge majority of players do not, in fact, play Raids, Fractal CMs, SPvP or WvW. Those players can most likely easily outnumber all the players that do play one of those contents taken together. It's not a matter of "lowest common denominator". It's a matter of that content simply not being interesting or fun for a majority of players.

 

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Edit: I need to add to this, there is a legendary for the story content. It's a legendary neck piece. If you don't like the story content you won't finish it. Same with aurora and vision. You know what content I absolutely hate doing?!? Open world stuff and story... just finished aurora a couple weeks ago and now working on vision. Wanna know why I'm doing content I hate? Because I want the reward. This is the pve content and open world content that leads to legendaries. And you can put the confused emoji on my post if you want to because you don't like it but it doesn't make it not true.

Then you are perfectly justified in asking for Anet to create more legendaries for Raids. And you will not find me saying it is a bad idea, because i am not a person that thinks that others must be made to suffer (instead of having fun) before they can be rewarded.

 

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Now go play the game and get what you want. 

I already did. I still think it is a bad design.

[Sobx.1758]

36 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's all true, but none of that changes what I said either. Legendary gear is simply a bit of content that isn't really open for the casual player and an option for Anet to consider widening based on how much effort they have put into introducing leg. gear in the game. I mean, I don't really have a horse in this race cause I'm drowning in all kinds of ascended armors already. To be frank, any other casual player isn't the audience for this ... yes, they don't need it, but people getting things in this game isn't about need, it's about getting them to continue playing the game. There are lots of things in the game that are simply there because people like to get them, not because they need them.

 

I see that legendary gear isn't very prevalent with casual players. It seems like a wasted opportunity for Anet to engage these players with this content. 

Doesn't it change anything about what you said though? Legendaries aren't needed. Legendaries aren't "BiS" more than ascended items are. Simply "making legendaries more obtainable" doesn't somehow make the game have more playtime and doesn't magically increase interest in the game. It can be a carrot for people to bother with harder content though, so they have a reason to improve. If casual players enjoy what they play (and they do, because they play it without the legendary armor) then adding legendary armor to what they already play anyways doesn't make the content somehow more playable or more popular for them.

(and I'm using word "casuals" for the sake of somehow outlining who we're talking about, except the idea of raids somehow being unattainable for casual players is just false. Just pointing it out in case someone will feel obliged to take it out of context and pretend I'm anti-whomever 🙄 )

"Wasted opportunity" how?

"engage these players with this content"? Which content, the one they already play? I don't get it -honestly, to me this looks like mainly trying to throw in some buzz words/PR dev phrases so it sounds nice, but it doesn't make much sense to me, what exactly am I missing here?

 

I really don't understand how that doesn't change what you said. Seems like it changes quite a bit since your main points seem to be: "BiS", "increase game interest" and "they don't need it, but want it". So 1: Not BiS because doesn't get them power, ascended is perfectly fine; 2: doesn't increase game interest because they already play what they play anyways and 3: if they want it, then go get it. I don't understand what I'm missing here.

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Zalavaaris.5329]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You might have not been paying attention. It's been over a year (or was it two years already?) since we've heard from them that the raid population simply cannot justify putting more resources in it. cannot find the link to the post at the moment, but it's not something hidden away. A large part of the Raid community is completely aware of it, and has been for a long time (although some are probably just hoping it's something temporary and Anet devs will eventually change their mind).

 

That specific armor. Envoy set. They never mentioned that there won't be other sets though. They just said they weren't planning making any more at the moment. Besides, if you were right, WvW and SPvP armor sets would not exist.

 

Because they can get Ad Infinitum easily.

 

Because they already have a legendary backpack of their own.

 

As i mentioned in many other threads, i already have raid legendary armor, thank you very much. It's not about me, personally, trying to push devs into making it available for me. It's me pointing out that a huge majority of players do not, in fact, play Raids, Fractal CMs, SPvP or WvW. Those players can most likely easily outnumber all the players that do play one of those contents taken together. It's not a matter of "lowest common denominator". It's a matter of that content simply not being interesting or fun for a majority of players.

 

Then you are perfectly justified in asking for Anet to create more legendaries for Raids. And you will not find me saying it is a bad idea, because i am not a person that thinks that others must be made to suffer (instead of having fun) before they can be rewarded.

 

I already did. I still think it is a bad design.

It's a general you to anyone who doesn't want to do content for rewards. Also, when im talking about legendary armor I'm not talking about envoy. I'm talking about any of the sets. If you want it, go do the content. Idgaf if it's wvw, pvp, raids, etc. Just go do it. Again not specifically directed at you, directed at anyone who doesn't have it and wishes they didn't have to do the required content. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

26 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You might have not been paying attention. It's been over a year (or was it two years already?) since we've heard from them that the raid population simply cannot justify putting more resources in it. cannot find the link to the post at the moment, but it's not something hidden away. A large part of the Raid community is completely aware of it, and has been for a long time (although some are probably just hoping it's something temporary and Anet devs will eventually change their mind).

 

That specific armor. Envoy set. They never mentioned that there won't be other sets though. They just said they weren't planning making any more at the moment. Besides, if you were right, WvW and SPvP armor sets would not exist.

 

Because they can get Ad Infinitum easily.

 

Because they already have a legendary backpack of their own.

 

As i mentioned in many other threads, i already have raid legendary armor, thank you very much. It's not about me, personally, trying to push devs into making it available for me. It's me pointing out that a huge majority of players do not, in fact, play Raids, Fractal CMs, SPvP or WvW. Those players can most likely easily outnumber all the players that do play one of those contents taken together. It's not a matter of "lowest common denominator". It's a matter of that content simply not being interesting or fun for a majority of players.

 

Then you are perfectly justified in asking for Anet to create more legendaries for Raids. And you will not find me saying it is a bad idea, because i am not a person that thinks that others must be made to suffer (instead of having fun) before they can be rewarded.

 

I already did. I still think it is a bad design.

You make good points. I think about the disparity of how people get legendary, with wvw being the absolute worst , and raids being the fastest. Not to mention those that buy their way through. I hope they will in the future design an OW set for people that do metas world bosses dungeons ect, they could have the collection from those sources. Im sure it will be a grind regardless but there are more people in exotic and ascended than in legendary because many players only play OW. Nothing wrong with a legendary path from that content, plus dungeon participation would increase, and older content can be used again. 

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Maybe it's not a bad thing that legendary armor is so limited. Is it really a problem that it isn't the norm with regards to gearing? It's something special and unique. Maybe it's ok that it's so exclusive. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

Just now, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Maybe it's not a bad thing that legendary armor is so limited. Is it really a problem that it isn't the norm with regards to gearing? It's something special and unique. Maybe it's ok that it's so exclusive. 

But thats it though, its not exclusive if you have enough money you can buy your raid clears and mats. I know people that do not raid they hate it, yet they have the envoy set. Anet knew what they were doing, they sell gems for conversion and players buy their legendary. So in a sense it is p2w there, non raiders wearing raid legendary. So the whole exclusive idea goes out the window. One person spent a couple thousand to get their legendary sets, so ofc they are not going to change it, it makes them money.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

18 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

But thats it though, its not exclusive if you have enough money you can buy your raid clears and mats. I know people that do not raid they hate it, yet they have the envoy set. Anet knew what they were doing, they sell gems for conversion and players buy their legendary. So in a sense it is p2w there, non raiders wearing raid legendary. So the whole exclusive idea goes out the window. One person spent a couple thousand to get their legendary sets, so ofc they are not going to change it, it makes them money.

You dont think literally spending thousands of real dollars for 1 set of armor isn't exclusive?... you know people who spent, what is it now, 2k gold a week for 10 weeks to get it? Hell, if you bought 20k gold with real money you can have whatever if you want ifgaf. I'm talking about real players. Just remember, anecdotal evidence is only evidence of an anecdote. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[syNN.8529]

29 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

You make good points. I think about the disparity of how people get legendary, with wvw being the absolute worst , and raids being the fastest. Not to mention those that buy their way through. I hope they will in the future design an OW set for people that do metas world bosses dungeons ect, they could have the collection from those sources. Im sure it will be a grind regardless but there are more people in exotic and ascended than in legendary because many players only play OW. Nothing wrong with a legendary path from that content, plus dungeon participation would increase, and older content can be used again. 

i dont think anyone has a problem with ppl getting the ability to achieve a legy set through OW content. the main topic is, that some ppl ask for it, which is understandable and fine to ask for, but are not willing to put in equal amounts of effort as for the existing sets. it is not a question of OW-ppl to not get it, it is about the ridiculous ideas of how cheap that set should be to achieve.

 

no one with a bit of working brain left in their heads has a problem with ppl obtaining it different ways, if the amount of effort to put in equals the other ways of obtaining a legy set. as mentioned in previous posts, farming OW content for 66 hours (what some suggested) which is lowest difficulty content in the game, would highly devalue a 300+ hour spvp armor grind (which is not tied to any other skill than patience). the amounts of effort are unequal this is why some ppl consider that approach as "some are asking for legy stuff for free". if on the other hand getting the OW legy set would take ppl around 300+hours of playing OW content, this would be balanced and thus not be a problem at all.

13 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

But thats it though, its not exclusive if you have enough money you can buy your raid clears and mats. I know people that do not raid they hate it, yet they have the envoy set. Anet knew what they were doing, they sell gems for conversion and players buy their legendary. So in a sense it is p2w there, non raiders wearing raid legendary. So the whole exclusive idea goes out the window. One person spent a couple thousand to get their legendary sets, so ofc they are not going to change it, it makes them money.

yes and no. obtaining envoy armor is the quickest due to hard time gates. it is the quickest but you are paying with skill and effort put into it. effort in a way which doesnt mean doing events, jp, achievements but preparing for raid clears, looking up guides, watching videos, both for the own class as well as for encounters. yes raids is, in theory, the quickest obtainable, but if you are preparing for it like most "normal" players do, you will not obtain it in 10 weeks. i want to see those guys that are going to the raids with a complete fresh team, that has never raided before, none of them, do a full clear on the first session. this is very unlikely to happen! it is the quickest way to obtain legy armor for ppl that can take a "shortcut" by having put in effort beforehand in form of learning and practicing their classes and then clearing it fully. it should be added that every additional legy set from raids is not 10 but 20 weeks due to LI limitation.

so yes: raids is "the quickest" but also the hardest and the one requiring the most work outside of "doing the actual thing", meaning sitting within raid wings and doing clears.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Doesn't it change anything about what you said though?

 

Yup, it's not. My point is that the prevalence of Legendary gear in the game is not reflected by the amount players engage with obtaining it. That's a miss. Again, it's not about need, it's about Anet getting players to engage with content they put in the game. If Anet is cool with continuing to put resources into content that most people never encounter, then I guess there isn't a opening here based on 'engaging players'. I'm pretty sure there is though. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Endilbiach.4132]

46 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Maybe it's not a bad thing that legendary armor is so limited. Is it really a problem that it isn't the norm with regards to gearing? It's something special and unique. Maybe it's ok that it's so exclusive. 

 

Until raiding was introduced that had never been true in the game.  The original concept of legendaries was that the skin was what was most important.  "Here it is, I did it, I went through the effort to make this legendary!"  Was what it was about.  When it was only your weapon there was a *minor* utility to being able to switch it for free whenever you wanted, but you'd still hafta switch the rest of your gear the normal way so it didn't really change much for almost anyone.  Now that there are legendary pieces for every slot (except rebreather, I'm looking at you with expectations End of Dragons), there's a world of difference between what a person with full legendary gear can experience vs what someone in all exotics or even all ascended can experience.  That feels like a grotesque deviation from the original spirit of the game, which we called Fashion Wars 2 for a reason.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup, it's not. My point is that the prevalence of Legendary gear in the game is not reflected by the amount players engage with obtaining it. That's a miss. Again, it's not about need, it's about Anet getting players to engage with content they put in the game. 

Great job dodging on majority of the post that clearly responded to what you wrote.