Is this class a scam for solo players?

[Trayvon.7362]

No matter the stat type, this class goes down so easily. It makes it very difficult, if not impossible to solo certain events in expansion maps. Even certain story instances can be rough. I've gotten map completion on every released map up to SandSwept Isles and it's really starting to wear on me how fragile I am.

[Vinny.7260]

Hi Suinz! 

 

Could you create the build you use at: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ ? 

 

This'll allow us as a community help you out and guide you towards what you are looking for. 

 

Elementalist is quite a tough class as a whole to pick up at first but, with time, you'll begin to notice just how fun and powerful it can be! 

 

[fuzzyp.6295]

General tips for running GW2 content as Elementalist:

 

1) Don't run meta raid/fractal builds in open world. These builds are designed for these specific fights and rely on other players support to be effective. You aren't going to be getting the best results with these builds, especially if you are new to Elementalist.

2) If running power, don't run full beserker in open world. Instead, start your armor off with a mix of Marauders, Valkyries and even some Soliders armor. Elementalist is squishy and unless you're an expert at it, you will die. Don't worry about bringing big numbers in open world, small numbers is still more DPS than you in your down state. As you get better at Ele, swap out pieces for more glassy options till you get to a nice middle ground you find effective, regardless of what is "meta."

 

3) Consider running Condition. Condition based gear gives you added Toughness and Vitality without losing DPS. It gives you a nice buff as you learn how Elementalist works and get more familiar with the skills. All three specs can be decent condi classes, although Weaver and Tempest do outperform Core Elementalist in this regard. I find this a particularly good way to learn how to play sword weaver.

4) EDIT:  If all else fails for your armor, you can also run Celestial, basically the training wheels armor set for both power and condi. You won't be doing insane damage in anything, but you won't be dying at all.

 

5) Run self sustain utility instead of DPS. There is nothing wrong with throwing in Arcane Shield or Armor of Earth to help with stun breaks and self sustain. Elementalist has a lot of DPS to bring without the utility skills.

 

6) Consider running x/Focus. Focus offers three of the best defensive abilities int he game: Swirling Winds and Magnetic Wave for projectile hate and Obsidian Flesh as  a get out of jail free card. It can really help the personal survivibility of an Elementalist just by using it.

 

7) Don't waste your dodges. I know its a meme for players to say Ele goes down quickly, but its not true. Sometimes its better to take some small hits of damage from a mob and save you dodge for those huge telegraphed moves.

 

8 ) Practice. Elementalist is one of the hardest, if not the hardest class to master in Guild Wars 2. You won't get good at it over night. You won't get good at it over months. It takes a lot of times and knowledge, not just of the class itself, but of the game world. Knowing monster attack patterns or boss mechanics and having the built in sense to know what you as an Elementalist just can and can't handle is something you will have learn overtime, over many deaths.

 

Good luck.

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by fuzzyp.6295

[DeanBB.4268]

Also, there is this...

 

 

[TheDarkness.6947]

2 hours ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

Elementalist is one of the hardest, if not the hardest class to master in Guild Wars 2. You won't get good at it over night. You won't get good at it over months. It takes a lot of times and knowledge, not just of the class itself, but of the game world. Knowing monster attack patterns or boss mechanics and having the built in sense to know what you as an Elementalist just can and can't handle is something you will have learn overtime, over many deaths.

 

 

I vote for changing the in-game description of elementalist to this.

[Infusion.7149]

They took away downstate DPS lava font 😞

Ever since then it's been semi-meme to run fire traitline for power builds outside of instanced content since the might generation was also nerfed due to Pyromancer's Puissance changes. Arcane Prowess in Arcane is actually better for might generation and Air is needed for fury in power builds. For condi builds you can use signet of earth and run fire+earth for less incoming damage. Due to not needing to crit cap as much, Master's Fortitude also becomes more attractive which makes condi weaver more playable in the sustain sense even if it is more complicated.

In all seriousness though, you probably want to run marauder trinkets in openworld for power builds unless you are playing tempest (water variant running Flow Like Water isn't too bad). Even if you are on viper, there is a ramp time so you will need to use evades/blocks of which on elementalist aren't on as short a cooldown as on firebrand for example. The number one issue with sword weaver in openworld is if you have to deal with phase shift, not counting enemies that don't burn. Unless you play warrior it's pretty much a nonissue for just about every other class, whereas a necromancer with scourge on one template can just pretend nothing is going on.

Other classes...

• Guardian : low learning-level class regardless of spec , firebrand is much easier to deal with big slow attacks , can range on scepter ... applies every boon except for alac more or less
• Revenant: it's more resources that are the problem, you can facetank anything nonlethal basically , condi rev uses shortbow as a 2nd weapon set ... easy stability, insta breakbars, some might + easy fury , alac if you play renegade
• Mesmer: high learning-level class with similar limitations , the ramp time on power builds is long but at least it has blocks and evades and boonrips on autoattack with sword (so any boons you might need to deal with that augment damage are removed) , can use greatsword or staff mirage for harder bosses , self-alac even if you play chrono
• Necro: the premier facetank everything (by design) class regardless of reaper (high quickness uptime) or scourge
• Engineer: with an elite spec it is far easier , scrapper can facetank anything nonlethal and grenades give you respectable ranged DPS : now with party quickness and self-might and some self-provided fury
• Thief: no cooldown limits ; trait Invigorating Precision and you are as tanky as rev or scrapper , also high levels of evade and weapons have blind or weakness spam
• Ranger: has reflect and ranged damage on axe or longbow as well as added sustain if you run wilderness survival , soulbeast has merged bonuses and many self-boons other than alac, people were doing no heal raid soulbeast comps with predator's cunning traited
• Warrior: you would think it's a facetank class, but you would need to run Might Makes Right or Tactics to have sustain especially on Berserker which has -300 toughness ; self might and fury are okay with axes as well as some quickness (no alac). Spellbreaker with MMR / Tactics is rather tanky though and even if you don't run either of those traits you can use offhand dagger with Sun and Moon Style.

Have experienced several scenarios where elementalists just ragequit weaver and swap to tempest or another class (often holosmith , warrior, or scourge) in the same instance.

It would be more worthwhile if Pyromancer's Puissance were semi-usable solo and if it did top DPS by far without being so reliant on alac. Before the power nerf to weaver last year it was doing something like 19K auto attack in air attunement with full boons and I can't imagine it being that great after the consecutive power nerfs.

TL;DR: weaver is hard mode most of the time if you aren't running trailblazer build.
 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[AliamRationem.5172]

Try this build.  Alternatively, try this one.

 

The first is a Celestial Fire/Arcane Weaver using Sword/Focus.  It has moderately high damage and is a bit burstier in very short fights compared to pure condition builds due to having power stats.  It has decent armor and health, but what makes a build like this suitable for tough bosses is its amazing evasion, barrier, and healing.  It can evade tons of damage while healing rapidly, making it very difficult to kill if you're comfortable with it.

 

The second is also Sword/Focus Weaver, but it uses Fire/Earth with Trailblazer stats.  This one doesn't need to dodge around and mess with healing so much.  It relies on its massive armor value and high damage to bring enemies down quickly and shrug off hits that would quickly down a glassy power build.  It isn't very mobile and doesn't recover as quickly as the first build, but it's easier to play and is probably a better choice if you're new to playing a sword Weaver.

 

Here's the WvW variant for solo roaming, if you're into that.  Very resilient, but capable of strong bursts once it gets in close.

Edited July 21, 2021 by AliamRationem.5172

[The Boz.2038]

There is no Elementalist. There is only Trailblazer Weaver.

Accept this mantra as a fact written in stone, and your life will be much easier.

[AliamRationem.5172]

22 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

There is no Elementalist. There is only Trailblazer Weaver.

Accept this mantra as a fact written in stone, and your life will be much easier.

 

That's true of most classes, though.  If you want a better balance of damage and sustain, you play tanky condition builds.  You get a little more damage switching to power or hybrid setups that lack passive sustain, but it usually isn't worth it for solo play because the damage you gain is less than it would be with support and the damage you lose from having to play defense and/or recovery is often greater.

 

[The Boz.2038]

I disagree that it applies to most classes, and I disagree that the tradeoff is linear or not worth it. For strike damage, power, precision and ferocity compound, and a "base" 500 damage attack becomes 1200 at Soldier, becomes 1800 at, like, Zealot's, becomes 3000 at Zerk. That's a six-fold increase. Meanwhile, you trade off, like, 8k HP and 25% damage resistance. And you play every fight two, three, six times longer. Marauder is a bit better in this calc, as it has more overall stats, and is more comparable to Trailblazer.

Elementalist, the paper armor glass health profession, however, *needs* the extra tankiness. It doesn't actually get anything in exchange for the paper and glass it is forced to carry.

[AliamRationem.5172]

47 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I disagree that it applies to most classes, and I disagree that the tradeoff is linear or not worth it. For strike damage, power, precision and ferocity compound, and a "base" 500 damage attack becomes 1200 at Soldier, becomes 1800 at, like, Zealot's, becomes 3000 at Zerk. That's a six-fold increase. Meanwhile, you trade off, like, 8k HP and 25% damage resistance. And you play every fight two, three, six times longer. Marauder is a bit better in this calc, as it has more overall stats, and is more comparable to Trailblazer.

Elementalist, the paper armor glass health profession, however, *needs* the extra tankiness. It doesn't actually get anything in exchange for the paper and glass it is forced to carry.

 

3k crits in Grieving stats may seem great compared to 1k crits in Trailblazer.  But these builds will hit 20k, 30k, even 50k burns on breakbars in solo play.  Compared to that, a little extra plink on your power shots isn't so impressive.  I'd take the added risk of running these stats if I could get some real damage out of power, but I haven't seen that working out for condi-forward hybrids in solo play.  Have you?

Edited July 21, 2021 by AliamRationem.5172

[Head Kracker.4790]

On the topic of scam class for players....yes it is now as it stands. 

 

Initially Ele was overall a good class to play. Yes we had some times in wvw that were very OP, and overall were mostly middle of the road in pvp. The biggest issue is the development team for GW2 has a love for melee and they dont want a class that is safe outside of a moderate hit range since both buffs have limited range and the fact that crowding at the base of a boss is how they are designing encounters.

 

They really hate meteor shower since depending on how boss hitbox sizes can be Ele can deal literally more damage than somebody at the base or are able to hit multiple hitboxes from strategic placement. They also hate lava font in any form since most bosses overall do not move from one position easy or at least they used to not.

 

They also hate the idea of retuning all the powers that they have nerfed over the years nor do they want to look into other weapons and actually build a flow. Scepter has alot of oddities and while Dagger Dagger works well its only viable in the melee range they care for which is why it has not been nerfed like staff. Its also the reason they screwed up the fire traitline so that you cannot cap might anymore. The less said about how useless focus is the better.

 

Honestly I dont mind playing a complicated class, but for so long its been all take with minor oh so minor give. The fact that Guardian in base form feels more like a mage than ele is quite sad. Guard also is so MUCH easier to play. This class really needs a total overhaul to fix the fixes that they inflicted to it with disregard to play. Part of the reason ele had more damage attached to it in the beginning was the loss of boons and the fact that they were supposed to stay at range. The control options that weapons' gave them were not strong nor as repeatable on the basis that they were to be used to get AWAY from aggro. This is why the cast/animation and recharge time reflect this philosophy. We were never mesmer conditions nor necro conditions that could be constantly or easily supplied.

 

I figure that if/when the elite spec for the new expansion is given were going to get something like axe or mace rather than rifle or short/long bow. The development team really dont want to adjust the encounters for ranged characters.

[ugrakarma.9416]

i like condi elementalist for open world "spammy" events like DragonStorm, because basically u have to use more thing than just #1 to have nice fire damage spreaded around, also u are being "carried" here, so dont worry with being squishy.

[The Boz.2038]

2 hours ago, Head Kracker.4790 said:

This class really needs a total overhaul

This.

No amount of minor buffs or tweaks will actually fix the ele. Core design needs to be looked at. Weapon skill focus areas need to be redesigned. Traits reformed. No other profession in the game is in such a need for an in-depth rework as the Elementalist is.

[The Boz.2038]

7 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

3k crits in Grieving stats may seem great compared to 1k crits in Trailblazer.  But these builds will hit 20k, 30k, even 50k burns on breakbars in solo play.  Compared to that, a little extra plink on your power shots isn't so impressive.  I'd take the added risk of running these stats if I could get some real damage out of power, but I haven't seen that working out for condi-forward hybrids in solo play.  Have you?

You didn't grok the core of my argument, but okay, whatever. Suggest rereading my post.

[Dadnir.5038]

The build and gameplay habits are more important than the gear in open world PvE. Personally I run a full zerk staff tempest there and don't feel like I am squishier than any other profession.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

This.

No amount of minor buffs or tweaks will actually fix the ele. Core design needs to be looked at. Weapon skill focus areas need to be redesigned. Traits reformed. No other profession in the game is in such a need for an in-depth rework as the Elementalist is.

What do you mean?

Ele was fine in core days before all the powercreep.
It still was okay before all classes gained a ton of DPS , passive sustain, and boons (whoever thought it would be a good idea to give quickness to scrappers) while ele got damage nerfs of all things.

The ele role should be primarily DPS with the option to heal tempest.

Fire did get minor reworks but not in a good way, Pyromancer's Puissance used to be commonplace in WvW and downstate lava font was taken away along with fury application : the  worst is the conjure weapon trait really. Water gained damage bonuses. Air gained ferocity bonuses, the weak trait there is Inscription. Rock Solid could use help in Earth but it is generally not taken in PvE. Arcane is stronger solo than in groups for might generation ; it has a mix of sustain and damage.

 

The problem is you have support specs pulling over 35K DPS, which means boon reliant glass cannon DPS is not attractive especially when high RNG is involved (low consistency). If tempest had less RNG it would be semi-viable on things that need AoE cleave. Weaver has the main problem of difficulty to reach damage numbers comparable to other classes when you need to do anything other than DPS, the skill required is raised due to lowered EoR power bonus. A simple way to fix that sort of thing is lengthening the buff duration of EoR in PvE , might gain on sword in PvE  when traited, making pyro vortex / plasma blast dual attacks better PvE strike damage, increasing sword water damage in PvE in case people swap to the wrong attunement, primordial stance gaining power damage scaling at least on par with an autoattack, as well as making weave self not the best elite choice for weaver DPS.

 

The major improvements that could be had are mainly getting rid of animation lock, lower RNG on things like Invoke Lightning / Lightning orb / Overload air when it can only hit one target , pyromancer's puissance not removing 10 might at a time , not making conjures drop on the floor immediately to be "borrowed" and just have them ammo with it available for others after you drop it , etc.

 

For WvW it needs superspeed on scrapper to be cut back so AoEs hit. If meteor had the root taken away for example the risk would be reduced.
PvP is full bunker everything right now, which isn't conducive to eles. 300s traits need to go though.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Fire Wizard.9285]

17 hours ago, Suinz.5968 said:

No matter the stat type, this class goes down so easily. It makes it very difficult, if not impossible to solo certain events in expansion maps. Even certain story instances can be rough. I've gotten map completion on every released map up to SandSwept Isles and it's really starting to wear on me how fragile I am.

Learn to play better, this profession has a very high potential for survival and damage output ...

I play ELE over 9000h I know what I am writing 

[The Boz.2038]

13 minutes ago, Sibila.5463 said:

Learn to play better, this profession has a very high potential for survival and damage output ...

I play ELE over 9000h I know what I am writing 

Thanks for sharing what you've learned.

[TheDarkness.6947]

1 hour ago, Sibila.5463 said:

Learn to play better, this profession has a very high potential for survival and damage output ...

I play ELE over 9000h I know what I am writing 

 

At least in the US, there are roughly 2000h in a full time work year.  So, just treat ele like a full time job for (9000/2000) 4.5y and you won’t feel like so much of an anti-hero playing one?

 

I believe those say ele is very survivable and has high damage output at the skill ceiling, because I don’t personally know.  And I do appreciate that the class is deep enough to not get boring.  But if this is the case, I’d really like to see them find a way to lower the skill floor without affecting the ceiling, so that someone who is unable to treat it like a full time job can have some fun playing it earlier on in their multi-year journey to “gittin’ gud”.

[Khalisto.5780]

This is a playlist i solo all story mode dungeons with core ele, 

 it might help you a bit, i show build and equips every video

 

I just run full zerker on power and rabid undead in my condi build

[frareanselm.1925]

2 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

This is a playlist i solo all story mode dungeons with core ele, 

 it might help you a bit, i show build and equips every video

 

I just run full zerker on power and rabid undead in my condi build

The level mastery you show in the video and knowing the right skill in every situation is not for a newbie or casual player. Also you are next to die most of the fights with your HP below 25%, for me this is stressing, not fun at all.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:44 PM, Suinz.5968 said:

No matter the stat type, this class goes down so easily. It makes it very difficult, if not impossible to solo certain events in expansion maps. Even certain story instances can be rough. I've gotten map completion on every released map up to SandSwept Isles and it's really starting to wear on me how fragile I am.

Hard truth...yes the class is a total scam, don't believe the hype and I will then explain you why in here, really considering present and future investment, knowing how much time and effort you need to get good at class, making sure you enjoy the game as a whole and the developer personal class bias when it comes to balance...I can only suggest the following professions : Engineer - Revenant - Guardian - Necromancer......Thief (if you really want to go the extra mile)

 

1) The professions I suggest to you have no badly designed class mechanics or at least the best ones perspectively, meaning you suffer no real drawbacks between elites, no need to run after specific gear targets, relaxed gameplay with minimalist effort and far greater result

2) There is zero chance of these professions of ever being phased out in any part of the game, all their elite spec  will be always viable and competitive for very little effort on the player side, you will have plenty of fun regardless of your present and future skill level

3) You'd be a madman right now in playing anything seriously than one of those professions I have suggested, if you are a new player  don't even think of touching anything else  with a 10 miles long pole

 

Now about ele....pfff...don't know where to start from, played this class (sadly and by mistake) for well over 9k hours and it's the main reason why I campaigned for years to have class changing option in the gemstore, if even once for account. It is also the reason why I ended up repeating everything in the game with 2 other professions ( guardian and ranger but I have a fully geared necromancer and revenant too).

 

1)Non existing class mechanic...you're basically a clown fiesta class design based on "cool" factor instead than practicability, there is zero tactical sense for you to switch attunement : same range, same gameplay. I mean this is a class mechanic well designed: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud  or  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtue  or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

2) On ele you just switch attunement and nothing happens unless you use specific traits , you're still stuck on the same range and your utilities pretty much are mediocre self-survival with the most pathetic access to boons in game : no quickness, no alacrity, no retribution , no resistance..you gain access to the same basic boons every other class has access to...but ele has a far limited access to them by respect

3)Outside of dagger/dagger and staff...all other weapon skills are a complete scam , worthless blob of semi-useful skills with long after cast requiring pinpoint accuracy and luck to hit anything else more than a walking potato 

 

Honestly look around you and check how many eles you see....then check the gameplay of the professions I have suggested to you and imagine yourself in the same position, do you really want to give all of that to roleplay as Avatar for few weeks ?

 

Am I lying and being hypocritical or worst?......read these few reddit threads and you'll be the judge...

Edited July 22, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Arheundel.6451]

Few more reddit threads....

To answer directly your original question.....yes elementalist is a total scam, waste of money and time

Edited July 22, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[TheDarkness.6947]

5 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

developer personal class bias when it comes to balance

 

So here's what I don't understand.  People seem to think that anet hates ele.  But if you look at it - look at the HUGE number of skills and all the accompanying animations they've developed for it - someone(s) has done a LOT of work here.  Probably more than any other profession.  Heck, weaver added like 50 new skills.  Somebody at anet loves or at least did love ele.

 

So what happened?  Did the dev that championed it leave?  Does s/he just get ganged up on and out-voted by by the other devs at the balance meetings?

 

You'd think with the huge amount of work that's gone into ele, they'd want people to play it rather than complain how bad it is.  So, why not make it more accessible to people who want to play it by making it either A) not so terrible or B) not so punishing to learn.  I'm honestly not sure whether A or B is the truth at this point.  But it's definitely one of them.