Our New Mesmer Elite Specialization: The Virtuoso

[Salt Mode.3780]

Not to mention F4 is a block and there are skills that goes through block. Essentially they moved our distortion into a utility slot which is a nerf overall considering now in order to access a distort you have to use up one utility slot for that.

[appelflap.8310]

All i want for this spec is easy access to swiftness for rune diversity but i guess that's too much to ask, will have to wait and see for virtuoso's traitline but im sure it'll be disappointing. Good luck competing with the other games that are coming out at eod release... literally the worst time to release it but yh... who am i

Edited July 31, 2021 by appelflap.8310

[phokus.8934]

5 minutes ago, appelflap.8310 said:

All i want for this spec is easy access to swiftness for rune diversity but i guess that's too much to ask, will have to wait and see for virtuoso's traitline but im sure it'll be disappointing. Good luck competing with the other games that are coming out at eod release... literally the worst time to release it but yh... who am i

Someone who is jumping the gun and upset over something they don’t have any information.

 

There are no competing genres releasing anything in February 2022 so I’m not sure what you’re on about.

[appelflap.8310]

1 hour ago, phokus.8934 said:

Someone who is jumping the gun and upset over something they don’t have any information.

 

There are no competing genres releasing anything in February 2022 so I’m not sure what you’re on about.

you're not a real gamer

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

There are no competing genres releasing anything in February 2022 so I’m not sure what you’re on about.

 

Elden Ring is coming out near the end of January 2022 and Pokémon Legends: Arceus is supposed to come out early 2022 as well.

While those are not MMORPGs, they still release rather close to EoD and thus compete with it over the player's time.

 

Since many players play more than one genre, competition doesn't exclusively happen within one genre.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[appelflap.8310]

10 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

 

Elden Ring is coming out near the end of January 2022 and Pokémon Legends: Arceus is supposed to come out early 2022 as well.

While those are not MMORPGs, they still release rather close to EoD and thus compete with it over the player's time.

 

Since many players play more than one genre, competition doesn't exclusively happen within one genre.

exactly, and some other triple A games are coming too with devs that care and with anet's history of not caring about their ppl playing this game this can go downhill very fast. But hey, i really want anet to prove me wrong.

Edited July 31, 2021 by appelflap.8310

[phokus.8934]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

 

Elden Ring is coming out near the end of January 2022 and Pokémon Legends: Arceus is supposed to come out early 2022 as well.

While those are not MMORPGs, they still release rather close to EoD and thus compete with it over the player's time.

 

Since many players play more than one genre, competition doesn't exclusively happen within one genre.

That’s not how markets work.  You don’t schedule any release around non-competing games, or any software for that matter.

[AXLIB.8425]

question since i was not around during the hot and pof announcement and elite first looks, has there every been a case where they changed some skill and animation after the feedback from the first look showcase, or is everything final in terms of design and usage wise? 

[Genesis.5169]

I've been beaten down way to hard by Anet on the mesmer front. I have a hard time believing this spec won't be sent to the shadow realm in 6months regardless if it works well or not, talking from the PvP end, you can't lose in PvE so having something new to play with in PvE is a good thing.

 

Bittersweet...

Edited July 31, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

3 hours ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

question since i was not around during the hot and pof announcement and elite first looks, has there every been a case where they changed some skill and animation after the feedback from the first look showcase, or is everything final in terms of design and usage wise? 

Yes, they changed it based on feedback.
Mirage was the worst elite of the bunch on betas according to the vast majority of players.
Might have been the last time mesmer feedback was taken into account tho.

[AXLIB.8425]

22 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Yes, they changed it based on feedback.
Mirage was the worst elite of the bunch on betas according to the vast majority of players.
Might have been the last time mesmer feedback was taken into account tho.

what did they actually change?

[Za Shaloc.3908]

9 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

what did they actually change?

 

IIRC the changes were centered around Mirage Cloak. I believe they increased the duration? Can't fully remember.

 

As far as other feedback though: yes. I am almost certain they nerfed Holo's Holoforge damage by a flat 25% damage from the beta, and if memory serves me correct there were quite a few other changes they made. During the beta, Renegade/Kalla's heal was the stunbreak for the legend and I believe by release they changed it. As for animations, they updated  all of the summon animations for Renegade/Kalla. During the beta I believe they were just a slightly tinted transparent charr rather than the hypersaturated glowy ones of today. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

16 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

what did they actually change?

I don't remeber exactly but something along the lines:
Mirage was clunky as hell on betas, axe 2 and 3 were pretty awkard to use and bugged out on terrain, so those were fixed.
Mirage cloak was extended to 1sec and the window to use ambush was extended.
Scepter ambush rooted and now you can move.

I think @Curunen.8729 was present at the time too, perhaps he can be more precise.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Daniel Handler.4816]

5 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I don't remeber exactly but something along the lines:
Mirage was clunky as hell on betas, axe 2 and 3 were pretty awkard to use and bugged out on terrain, so those were fixed.
Mirage cloak was extended to 1sec and the window to use ambush was extended.
Scepter ambush rooted and now you can move.

I think @Curunen.8729 was present at the time too, perhaps he can be more precise.

 

Jaunt was only 300 range. Everyone complained and it was extended to 450.

[AXLIB.8425]

1 minute ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

 

Jaunt was only 300 range. Everyone complained and it was extended to 450.

 

8 minutes ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

IIRC the changes were centered around Mirage Cloak. I believe they increased the duration? Can't fully remember.

 

As far as other feedback though: yes. I am almost certain they nerfed Holo's Holoforge damage by a flat 25% damage from the beta, and if memory serves me correct there were quite a few other changes they made. During the beta, Renegade/Kalla's heal was the stunbreak for the legend and I believe by release they changed it. As for animations, they updated  all of the summon animations for Renegade/Kalla. During the beta I believe they were just a slightly tinted transparent charr rather than the hypersaturated glowy ones of today. 

 

8 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I don't remeber exactly but something along the lines:
Mirage was clunky as hell on betas, axe 2 and 3 were pretty awkard to use and bugged out on terrain, so those were fixed.
Mirage cloak was extended to 1sec and the window to use ambush was extended.
Scepter ambush rooted and now you can move.

I think @Curunen.8729 was present at the time too, perhaps he can be more precise.

good to know, although I was asking whether they entirely redesign skill, not just tweak some number of certain skills and make certain skill smoother to use, so that seems like a no

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Just now, AXLIB.8425 said:

 

 

good to know, although I was asking whether they entirely redesign skill, not just tweak some number of certain skills and make certain skill smoother to use, so that seems like a no

 

Well, technically Mirage scepter's ambush attack did port you back a small distance (like a mini staff 2), so I would consider that a partial rework. To be honest I can't really remember all the other stuff.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 minute ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

 

 

good to know, although I was asking whether they entirely redesign skill, not just tweak some number of certain skills and make certain skill smoother to use, so that seems like a no

 

For mesmer i dont think so. But it has happened before for other professions. Revenant's unyielding anguish is entirely different from beta. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

20 minutes ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

 

Jaunt was only 300 range. Everyone complained and it was extended to 450.

Yeah, you're right. Gosh Jaunt was awful.

 

 

15 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

 

 

good to know, although I was asking whether they entirely redesign skill, not just tweak some number of certain skills and make certain skill smoother to use, so that seems like a no

As far as I remember no.

But tbh, some years ago, I made a huge list full of buffs, nerfs and QoL by the mesmer community and only one suggestion was put on game (confounding suggestions - April 23, 2019)
Later Jazz did the same and no dev cared.
So I think mesmer community "influencing" the mesmer on game is no more.
 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Nephalem.8921]

6 hours ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

question since i was not around during the hot and pof announcement and elite first looks, has there every been a case where they changed some skill and animation after the feedback from the first look showcase, or is everything final in terms of design and usage wise? 

They changed DD staff animations and dodge animations after the beta test due to feedback

[FranzM.1298]

Wouldn't it make more sense to also give us off hand dagger and put Sword of Decimation + a Phantasmal Rogue on it to help with kiting. Especially since the main hand dagger doesn't apply cripple.

 

Then instead give us a utility for movement (similar to Lightning Reflexes for example). I'm pretty sure every class with a 1200 range weapon has access to swiftness in their utility except the Virtuoso in this case.

Edited August 1, 2021 by FranzM.1298

[Erick Alastor.3917]

Just me would have preferred dagger to be midrange?
Having all that range could mean another useless weapon in instanced PvE.
DH longbow déjà vu.

[Me Games Ma.3024]

I didn't want to open another threat for this so I'll post this here:

(Please keep in mind that my pwrspective is purely PvE based)

 

This is my very rough list of traits that I expect or would like/hate to see on the Virtuoso:

* I would absolutely HATE a trait that passively increases a stat/effect based on the number of active blades. We've had this in the past and I am glad that they changed this up so I hope they learbed from that and won't go with another one of these traits.

* I am almost certain there will be a trait that increases the amount of blades we create in some way. (E.g. Phantasms spawn 2 blades instead of just one) something like this that doesn't affect gameplay too much, it just increases generation. (Probably Major Adept like we see in the Illusions and Chrono line)

* I am sure that there will be a dagger trait I don't know any real cool ways they could include one but I would bet that there is no cooldown reduction on the trait.

* I would love to see a trait that increases the blade limit (by 2?) If this would come it'd most likely be a grandmaster.

* I hope that there is a trait that interacts with the new skill category. I would like to see something like our signet trait that grants each of these abilities a fitting bonus instead of just a generic change to all of them.

* I am still convinced that there's a trait that inflicts vuln on crit. Some said that they saw moments in the video where this theory was disproven but I didn't find any exceptions rewatching the video /shrug

* There will be a % damage or crit trait for dps builds

* I would like a trait that does something cool when we fire all of our 5 blades at once. (Eventhough It's unlikely to happen)

* I would dislike it if they made a trait that makes clones work with virtuoso :D

 

Alright. That's my thoughts on the traits. I just wanted to share this. Do any of you agree with me? Do you disaggree? Let me know :)

[FalsePromises.6398]

Reading these and seeing lots of "the new shatters are just the same old same old" or "was hoping for a fanservice bard"... the only legitimate criticism I could somewhat agree with of virtuoso is that it should have gotten two daggers (and I guess that it doesn't get more cleanses, but we haven't even seen the traits yet). I think a lot of people aren't REALLY looking into this.

 

It's not just removing clones... you get a FIFTH shatter ammo and (I'm pretty sure) none of them dissipate when your target dies prematurely, which has TONS of implications. For instance, traits that apply bonus conditions or effects per shatter that lands or per clone shattered will become notably more potent when 1. you won't lose out your fourth shatter proc by not being in point blank range of your target, 2. you'll have a bonus shatter hit proc with your fifth blade for trait purposes, and 3. you won't lose your shatter ammo if your target dies, which will make for a lot better multi target handling. With these bonuses in mind, some things to benefit from this will be Shattered Concentration (boon removed per shatter hit landed), Cry of Pain (bonus confusion on F2 per hit), Maim the Disillusioned (Torment on EVERY shatter per clone, may uniquely affect virtuoso's bladeturn requiem pulsing blade field so keep an eye on that), Blinding Dissipation (blindness on each F2 shatter instance, synergy with Ineptitude for more confusion), Restorative Illusions (heal per clone or blade used in a shatter, may go SERIOUSLY nuts given you'll now have five blades instead of three clones to interact with that), and my personal favorite glow-up will be Ether Feast (5k heal on 20s cooldown with 600 bonus healing per clone active, or blade stored in this case) which will become a WICKED 8k heal on 20s cooldown with 5 blades up, which will be far easier to achieve than 3 clones alive at the same time.

 

Now, just looking at these is enough to give it some cool synergy with the original traitlines, but the new shatters themselves are rather interesting, especially Bladeturn Requiem, which is a 3 second block so long as you have one blade, no matter one or five blades, on 30 second cooldown. You basically get a warrior shield stance that doesn't require a full channel (only 1.5 second cast time), which also creates an aoe whirlwind of blades. This will be pretty gnarly in pvp where previously distortion would remove your point capture contribution and would have twice the cooldown and conditional uptime based on how many clones you shattered with it. The sheer amount of area damage on top of that new block that virtuoso will have will make it rather gnarly in conquest I imagine. If you miss that invulnerability though, you'll still be able to take that new utility skill which will regenerate your ammo instead of eating it. You'll lose that freecast invuln window, yeah, but it's a worthy sacrifice imo, and at least isn't as bad as chronomancer's removal of distortion completely. 

 

All in all, virtuoso looks rough at first but is secretly a gold mine. You'll have more reliable defenses, more reliable aoe (away with thee, wells!) and more potent shatters with improved shatter synergies from traits, which could create some pretty gnarly effects if you play your cards right. This is all speculation based on what we've seen and doesn't even glance at the traits yet, there could be more to come, and who knows, maybe anet will cave and give em a second dagger? We're still nearly half a year out, just about. They've got time and multiple betas. They gave revenant weapon swap after player demand, so it's not like they CAN'T do big things based on player feedback. Regardless, I'll still be using focus offhand for roundups into those psionic skills, so I'm fine either way. Mesmer still has quite the arsenal of purposeful and powerful offhanders anyway, which is more than can be said for other classes. 

 

I am concerned though about bladesongs having cast times, but I'll wait to see how that pans out.

[Levetty.1279]

9 hours ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

 

 

good to know, although I was asking whether they entirely redesign skill, not just tweak some number of certain skills and make certain skill smoother to use, so that seems like a no

In HoT, Shield Phantasm was changed from throwing an orb that bounced to the current melee attack.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Levetty.1279 said:

In HoT, Shield Phantasm was changed from throwing an orb that bounced to the current melee attack.

They also stealth nerfed it after release to be the only phantasm that will not spawn if evaded.