Strikes CMs are just another nail in the coffin

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Back to it's roots.... you mean a game where PvE is only there to educate you on the key concepts for competitive?

 

Pretty sure PVE was there for more reasons (and more important ones) than just to prep people for competitive modes. 🙄 Hopefully, I'm just lost on a sarcastic comment here. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bakeneko.5826]

17 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Pretty sure PVE was there for more reasons (and more important ones) than just to prep people for competitive modes. 🙄 Hopefully, I'm just lost on a sarcastic comment here. 

No, pretty much tutorial for PvP and GvG

[Obtena.7952]

31 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

No, pretty much tutorial for PvP and GvG

That doesn't make sense ... PVE is not only implemented as a tutorial for competitive game modes. That's actually absurd if you consider how much content PVE has ... far more than is necessary to only be about training for competitive modes. 

 

So as you were saying?

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bakeneko.5826]

11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't make sense ... PVE is not only implemented as a tutorial for competitive game modes. That's actually absurd if you consider how much content PVE has ... far more than is necessary to only be about training for competitive modes. 

 

So as you were saying?

Mobs are using players skills, GW1 was PvE tutorial for PvP endgame

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Mobs are using players skills, GW1 was PvE tutorial for PvP endgame

OK that's nice ... This isn't GW1. Mobs using player skills isn't proof that PVE is only implemented as a tutorial for competitive game modes. Are you honestly telling me you can't think of ANY other reason for PVE to exist except to train people for PVP/WvW? 

 

The idea that PVE only exists to train people for competitive modes is absurd. If you believe that, then how do you explain all the content that exists in PVE that isn't necessary to train players for PvP/WvW? Why do we have mount then? Why is there leveling? Why is there even a storyline? LOTS of the things we have in PVE aren't even necessary for training people ... so your perspective is a little off here. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Firebeard.1746]

Well throwing more fuel to this fire: it's a boon to a lot of the raiding community. Some "exp" raid groups are far worse than some training runs on NA raid discord. It felt like to me, some people want to be carried. And instead of advocating these people are locked out of the loot, I'm advocating that they get content at their play level and I'm content to straddle both. I've been doing more strikes as well lately too.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[yann.1946]

On 8/31/2021 at 9:18 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Weren't you stating, that raids didn't need easier modes in thread, where it was discussed? Raids were killed by raid community, not by devs, or there being no easy mode.

Honestly, this is just not true. Raids where not just "killed" by the community.

[Bakeneko.5826]

14 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

Honestly, this is just not true. Raids where not just "killed" by the community.

It was, its nice that you dont believe it

[yann.1946]

3 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

It was, its nice that you dont believe it

You mean the community which set up training, who organized events to get more people in the game mode. 

 

It might surprise you but the general perception of the raid community does not match the reality of it. 

 

Ofcourse your free not to believe these things, but let's be honest about the reasons raid popularity declined. 

Also just giving one reason for the downfall of something is extremely short sided, and not true most of the time. 

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

You mean the community which set up training, who organized events to get more people in the game mode. 

 

It might surprise you but the general perception of the raid community does not match the reality of it. 

 

Ofcourse your free not to believe these things, but let's be honest about the reasons raid popularity declined. 

Also just giving one reason for the downfall of something is extremely short sided, and not true most of the time. 

If anything, the community was the only thing that made raids as successful as they were. Even with some of the bad behaviours from some individuals typical of MMO groups, raids would have been MUCH worse off if it wasn't for the players. 

 

Anet took the players of this game for granted in the way they implemented raids. Hopefully that's a mistake they NEVER forget. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bakeneko.5826]

17 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

You mean the community which set up training, who organized events to get more people in the game mode. 

 

It might surprise you but the general perception of the raid community does not match the reality of it. 

 

Ofcourse your free not to believe these things, but let's be honest about the reasons raid popularity declined. 

Also just giving one reason for the downfall of something is extremely short sided, and not true most of the time. 

Yes, but perception is the key. Ofc, if you play in EU you can join RTI, Zexy and many more guild that do training, but to random player, who just checks LFG, it's not too inviting seeing 50KP + 250 LI/LD or some variation of that.
 

Raids failed due to multiple reasons, yes, but community perception of raiding community played a major role in it.

[yann.1946]

13 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Yes, but perception is the key. Ofc, if you play in EU you can join RTI, Zexy and many more guild that do training, but to random player, who just checks LFG, it's not too inviting seeing 50KP + 250 LI/LD or some variation of that.
 

Raids failed due to multiple reasons, yes, but community perception of raiding community played a major role in it.

Those are different things though, then its not the raid community but the perception of the raid community. And its important to make the disinction their.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:20 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Mobs are using players skills, GW1 was PvE tutorial for PvP endgame

Nah. That was the original idea, sure, but devs dropped it before GW1 even reached beta stage. Turns out shifting the game's focus towards PvE was more profitable.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Bakeneko.5826]

23 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

Those are different things though, then its not the raid community but the perception of the raid community. And its important to make the disinction their.

Perception doesn't just pop up at random, there is reason for it

[yann.1946]

50 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Perception doesn't just pop up at random, there is reason for it

That reason does not have to be reality though. Their are lots of biases and limitations to our observations that shape perception. 

 

Two example i find interesting are

A) why is it that vegans get thought of as judgy people?

B) why do some people think that their is an inverse correlation between attractiveness and personality? 

 

The answer to a) is that it are the judgy people we mostly hear by the mere fact that they are judgy. That does not need to represent the general vegan population. 

B) s answer is slightly more complex but is at its core a consequence on how people pick potential dating partners. If they have a bad personality and looks you won't interact with them. And if they have to much from both their out of your league. 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Perception doesn't just pop up at random, there is reason for it

 

Actually, it does. Perception, the one we are talking about aka imperfect and limited, can be manipulated and usually is heavily biased unless grounded extensively in facts.

 

Claiming that perception alone can be considered factual already dismisses your argument on the very grounds that you seem to not understand that difference.

 

The best one could do is have a developer come out make those claims, given they might have enough data to go through to make such deductions, but certainly none of us players.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Firebeard.1746]

I don't even understand why this thread is still going at this point, honestly. Anet has the data and they made a choice as it relates to endgame content based on that data. The best the raid community could do to change that is to ask Anet about said data and actively try to fix it. I doubt, however, that they could. They already communicated that they're making more difficult CM encounters for strikes to appease raiders who want harder content, but they're giving more accessible content outside the CMs to everyone else. I don't see how this is a bad thing, if there's a gap, raiders can ask for more CMs. The worst it does is lets them satisfy two communities with one set of development assets, which *GASP* EVERY OTHER FREAKING RELEVANT MMO ON THE PLANET IS DOING RIGHT NOW.

The raiders revolting over this is not a healthy thing, especially when they HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE CMS yet. If you want to keep giving your community a bad name, keep doing that, judging content before you ever experience it. See how much the devs will respect and listen to your opinion.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Linken.6345]

15 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I don't even understand why this thread is still going at this point, honestly. Anet has the data and they made a choice as it relates to endgame content based on that data. The best the raid community could do to change that is to ask Anet about said data and actively try to fix it. I doubt, however, that they could. They already communicated that they're making more difficult CM encounters for strikes to appease raiders who want harder content, but they're giving more accessible content outside the CMs to everyone else. I don't see how this is a bad thing, if there's a gap, raiders can ask for more CMs. The worst it does is lets them satisfy two communities with one set of development assets, which *GASP* EVERY OTHER FREAKING RELEVANT MMO ON THE PLANET IS DOING RIGHT NOW.

The raiders revolting over this is not a healthy thing, especially when they HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE CMS yet. If you want to keep giving your community a bad name, keep doing that, judging content before you ever experience it. See how much the devs will respect and listen to your opinion.

Hopefully they can churn out 6-8 cm bosses a year then.

[Bakeneko.5826]

9 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Hopefully they can churn out 6-8 cm bosses a year then.

And I hope we get new fractal in a years time

[Krzysztof.5973]

39 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

And I hope we get new fractal in a years time

1 fractal cm boss a year is not enough for you? You toxic elitist!

[Linken.6345]

8 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

1 fractal cm boss a year is not enough for you? You toxic elitist!

Dont have to be a cm just a new fractal to be fair.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

On 9/14/2021 at 7:21 PM, Linken.6345 said:

Dont have to be a cm just a new fractal to be fair.

Yeah that was I meant. Sunqua Peak is now a year old . In the beginning of the thread somewhere they said that there is no more raid dev team.  To be precise they were put together with the fractal team this resulted in fractal with a lot more raid mechanic and harder difficulty mostly Siren's Reef but this is not the point.

 

The point is this team which was already cut in half and glued together got dissembled and only called back to do Sunqua Peak only to disappear  again.

 

I get it that raids only appeal to a smaller potion of the players which is also a fault of Arena.NET building it without multiply difficulties but fractals are the core PvE endcontent like Dungeons were in the past.

 

Also the last gaming news about the EoD features weren't so good taken by the author of MMO online new sites . Ships and fishing are the new core features which especially fishing is for most MMO and afterthought or a basic feature like housing .

 

So Arena.NET most know this doesn't look great for them.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Lord of the Fire.6870
Make clear which author I mean

[Vinceman.4572]

On 8/31/2021 at 9:18 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Weren't you stating, that raids didn't need easier modes in thread, where it was discussed? Raids were killed by raid community, not by devs, or there being no easy mode.

Yes, I did when raids where new and the population much higher than nowadays. That's a remarkable difference! Player numbers have drastically changed for challenging content in comparison to years ago.

Most of the people are not able (in terms of having the mechanical ability and the willing) to raid. 

[Vinceman.4572]

On 9/6/2021 at 8:19 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Yes, but perception is the key. Ofc, if you play in EU you can join RTI, Zexy and many more guild that do training, but to random player, who just checks LFG, it's not too inviting seeing 50KP + 250 LI/LD or some variation of that.
 

Raids failed due to multiple reasons, yes, but community perception of raiding community played a major role in it.

Nah, the restructuring and multiple fails of content creation inside Anet lead to raids being abandoned as their development costs money which they don't/didn't have. Look at PvP, look at WvW. Both niche content like raids and those modes suffered heavily till today.

In addition to KP and LIs. I don't see a difference to fractal cms as you don't see any other groups there than those who are asking for KP there as well. The average GW2 Joe is too bad for challenging content, this even counts for regular T4s where a friend of mine and me are carrying other players heavily through the dailies.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Vinceman.4572 said:

Nah, the restructuring and multiple fails of content creation inside Anet lead to raids being abandoned as their development costs money which they don't/didn't have. Look at PvP, look at WvW. Both niche content like raids and those modes suffered heavily till today.

In addition to KP and LIs. I don't see a difference to fractal cms as you don't see any other groups there than those who are asking for KP there as well. The average GW2 Joe is too bad for challenging content, this even counts for regular T4s where a friend of mine and me are carrying other players heavily through the dailies.

This.

Once again a good summary of how we got to where we are today. Let's see what EoD brings.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Cyninja.2954