Legendary armor is... Locked for some people.

[MarkoGold.7126]

8 hours ago, Maiku Larzon.7150 said:

Hey all. Just wanted to hear what other people think about locking the Perfected Envoy armor behind raids. (my opinion, best looking armor) 

 

I have the problem that i am a assassin/Berserker Soulbeast, so no one wants me in their raids. They tell me to switch to druid and get healer runes. 

It makes me sad that i am forced to change everything i have worked for, to get a armor set... 

Am i the only one that feels like this or does any1 else? Fell free to tell me. Cause if i am not alone, Anet might change if enough of us speaks up 🙂

Why do you deserve a reward for raiders if you are not raiding ?

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Hadi.6025 said:

You have to either grind 60000 hours of Raids in PVE, find a competent group that know what they're doing or get the ugly reskins from WvW. 

How about not spreading lies?

 

1 hour ago, sorudo.9054 said:

they will never do that, they only care about meta's and raids/strikes.

us normal casuals are useless to them, we pay their bills with gem purchases but we will never get what we want.

LOL no. That's not even close to reality.

 

 

[Katary.7096]

6 hours ago, Fenom.9457 said:

I’ve been saying we need a generalized pve set [...]

That demand makes no sense since Perfected Envoy Armor is a generalized PvE set. In order to get it a player will have to do:

1) HoT open world content (all 4 maps and their meta events)

2) HoT raid content (all 4 wings)

3) Fractal content

4) Crafting or buying the crafted items from the TP (to trade for Provisioner Tokens)

Apart from the addition of jumping puzzle content I don't see how much more "generalized PvE" a set could get. Yes, the bottleneck for most is going to be the raid content, but that doesn't magically delete the other steps in the acquisition process.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I think the biggest mistake was adding the legendary amulet for doing 24 meta achievements. This removed the reward from doing pvp, a game mode that actively pushes you toward a 50 50 win rate, where the worse you are, the faster your que, the faster you get to the 120 wins that bottlenecks everyone. Unlike added pvp and wvw legendary armors, which at their time were much more difficult to get than raid armor, the pve amulet is a joke. 

Rewards need to remain exclusive so they can have value and promote mode that people normally would not do. I did my 20 tournament wins and have not step foot back in, but i have enjoyed pve season so i am on my 3rd rep on pvp wins. Without the carrot of transendance i would have not tried pvp.

[Doggie.3184]

I skipped legendary armor and just collected/crafted ascended armor over the years, but for me I hate the medium armors appearance (to the point of finding it offensive) so that part wouldn't be why I'd make it. My Thief has 3 different ascended armor sets~ and a Viper and Zerker set for both Light and Heavy. Most stats aren't going to be useful anyways to need more.

 

Raids really aren't very 'hop in and enjoy the ride' in this game and are just really tedius to get into, so I don't bother with them. I also main Thief which can get quite mixed reactions just for existing rather than it's build. The last response I got from a group leader kicking people left and right was basically "I've never seen a Thief before so I have no idea what they do or if they're good or bad so you can stay I guess."

 

 Better off doing WvW, even if you're just repairing things and PvEing all day, and reskinning them with Tshirt, which is the best chest skin in the game for medium. Hopefully they make a non-raid PvE related set one day.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[Dante.1763]

37 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

I think the biggest mistake was adding the legendary amulet for doing 24 meta achievements. This removed the reward from doing pvp, a game mode that actively pushes you toward a 50 50 win rate, where the worse you are, the faster your que, the faster you get to the 120 wins that bottlenecks everyone. Unlike added pvp and wvw legendary armors, which at their time were much more difficult to get than raid armor, the pve amulet is a joke. 

Rewards need to remain exclusive so they can have value and promote mode that people normally would not do. I did my 20 tournament wins and have not step foot back in, but i have enjoyed pve season so i am on my 3rd rep on pvp wins. Without the carrot of transendance i would have not tried pvp.

Thank god they added it. I really hate pvp, and i have a heavy despise for wvw, so the less time i spend in those modes doing content i dont like, the better it is for everyone who actually enjoys those modes.

 

Frankly every mode should have a way to get every bit of legendaries. PVP and WVW should both have recipes that can unlock Gen 1 and 2 weapons from just doing those modes, along with their own full set of jewelry and a unique armor skin per mode. PVE should too. So should Raids. Let players who enjoy whatever content they enjoy most and let them get BIS gear while doing it.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Dante.1763 said:

Thank god they added it. I really hate pvp, and i have a heavy despise for wvw, so the less time i spend in those modes doing content i dont like, the better it is for everyone who actually enjoys those modes.

 

Frankly every mode should have a way to get every bit of legendaries. PVP and WVW should both have recipes that can unlock Gen 1 and 2 weapons from just doing those modes, along with their own full set of jewelry and a unique armor skin per mode. PVE should too. So should Raids. Let players who enjoy whatever content they enjoy most and let them get BIS gear while doing it.

Raids are pve, no need for you to pretend otherwise. As said above already:

 

 

[Fenom.9457]

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

That demand makes no sense since Perfected Envoy Armor is a generalized PvE set. In order to get it a player will have to do:

1) HoT open world content (all 4 maps and their meta events)

2) HoT raid content (all 4 wings)

3) Fractal content

4) Crafting or buying the crafted items from the TP (to trade for Provisioner Tokens)

Apart from the addition of jumping puzzle content I don't see how much more "generalized PvE" a set could get. Yes, the bottleneck for most is going to be the raid content, but that doesn't magically delete the other steps in the acquisition process.

The problem is doing all the generalized pve is invalidated by requiring something that only comes from the smallest,  most niche, toxic part of the game.  Yes there are nice raiders but you’ll still find elitism more there than anywhere else.  You want armor? You gotta do content designed for 5-10% of the player base, and that’s a percentage game studios and hardcore raiders themselves reference constantly.  It’s not an exaggeration.  It’s also not just a little bit.  Like you only need each HoT meta once for the achievement and a few more times for some materials. No, you need OVER A HUNDRED kills.  *150* either you’re an experienced raider or you’ve never tried if you don’t realize how much of an absolutely MASSIVE task that is.  It’s an ungodly level of requirement for *casual* players.  So I reiterate, the average player of the game does not have a reasonably attainable set of legendary armor. Something that has both generalized and highly niche content isn’t a generalized pve set, it’s a raiding set.  You can’t call something generalized if it includes the least ‘general’ type of content in the game 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Fenom.9457

[Dante.1763]

18 minutes ago, Fenom.9457 said:

The problem is doing all the generalized pve is invalidated by requiring something that only comes from the smallest,  most niche, toxic part of the game.  Yes there are nice raiders but you’ll still find elitism more there than anywhere else.  You want armor? You gotta do content designed for 5-10% of the player base, and that’s a percentage game studios and hardcore raiders themselves reference constantly.  It’s not an exaggeration.  It’s also not just a little bit.  Like you only need each HoT meta once for the achievement and a few more times for some materials. No, you need OVER A HUNDRED kills.  *150* either you’re an experienced raider or you’ve never tried if you don’t realize how much of an absolutely MASSIVE task that is.  It’s an ungodly level of requirement for *casual* players.  So I reiterate, the average player of the game does not have a reasonably attainable set of legendary armor. Something that has both generalized and highly niche content isn’t a generalized pve set, it’s a raiding set.  You can’t call something generalized if it includes the least ‘general’ type of content in the game 

Thank you kindly. I dont even have the collections finished yet and ive got 53 LI. Nobody wants to do W3, annoying, and im already getting bored of raids.

 

Doing the same encounters over and over is very boring, and if i ever finish getting the collections ill probably stop after getting my light armor set unlocked. i would like to know what percent of players in that 5-10%  stopped doing raids after the armor was unlocked.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

That demand makes no sense since Perfected Envoy Armor is a generalized PvE set. In order to get it a player will have to do:

1) HoT open world content (all 4 maps and their meta events)

2) HoT raid content (all 4 wings)

3) Fractal content

4) Crafting or buying the crafted items from the TP (to trade for Provisioner Tokens)

 

Which perfectly illustrates why it's not "a generalised set" as it requires you to play specific subcontent so "an overarching HoT set" would be a more accurate description. An actual example of a generalised set would be the WvW one where most of the sub content counts for it while also not requiering anythig in specific.

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Which perfectly illustrates why it's not "a generalised set" as it requires you to play specific subcontent so "an overarching HoT set" would be a more accurate description. An actual example of a generalised set would be the WvW one where most of the sub content counts for it while also not requiering anythig in specific.

It still is generalized and you want to make it even less generalized, but somehow suddenly you don't mind that.

 

13 hours ago, Fenom.9457 said:

The problem is doing all the generalized pve is invalidated by requiring something that only comes from the smallest,  most niche, toxic part of the game.  Yes there are nice raiders but you’ll still find elitism more there than anywhere else.  You want armor? You gotta do content designed for 5-10% of the player base, and that’s a percentage game studios and hardcore raiders themselves reference constantly.  It’s not an exaggeration.  It’s also not just a little bit.  Like you only need each HoT meta once for the achievement and a few more times for some materials. No, you need OVER A HUNDRED kills.  *150* either you’re an experienced raider or you’ve never tried if you don’t realize how much of an absolutely MASSIVE task that is.  It’s an ungodly level of requirement for *casual* players.  So I reiterate, the average player of the game does not have a reasonably attainable set of legendary armor. Something that has both generalized and highly niche content isn’t a generalized pve set, it’s a raiding set.  You can’t call something generalized if it includes the least ‘general’ type of content in the game 

Nope, it's achievable for casual players. It's a timegate in itself and nobody said a casual player has to clear everything each week. It won't be an optimal time of acquisition, but still absolutely achievable long term goal for rewards that don't lock anything if you don't have them.

 

 

Yeah, keep spamming those confused reaction emotes because you dislike facts, that'll make you correct 😁

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ArchonWing.9480]

16 hours ago, Maiku Larzon.7150 said:

Hey all. Just wanted to hear what other people think about locking the Perfected Envoy armor behind raids. (my opinion, best looking armor) 

 

I have the problem that i am a assassin/Berserker Soulbeast, so no one wants me in their raids. They tell me to switch to druid and get healer runes. 

It makes me sad that i am forced to change everything i have worked for, to get a armor set... 

Am i the only one that feels like this or does any1 else? Fell free to tell me. Cause if i am not alone, Anet might change if enough of us speaks up 🙂

 

Soulbeasts are a perfectly usable class. However, in advanced pve, it's also your responsibility to adapt to the situation to fit your group, or find another group if it that doesn't work. This includes bringing multiple builds or classes.

 

If you can't accept this, then you'll just have to improve so you won't need a specific group of people.

 

If you can't do that, then maybe you don't deserve the skin.

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

16 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

That demand makes no sense since Perfected Envoy Armor is a generalized PvE set. In order to get it a player will have to do:

1) HoT open world content (all 4 maps and their meta events)

2) HoT raid content (all 4 wings)

3) Fractal content

4) Crafting or buying the crafted items from the TP (to trade for Provisioner Tokens)

Apart from the addition of jumping puzzle content I don't see how much more "generalized PvE" a set could get.

That's easy, make legendary armor crafting work like legendary weapon crafting does (ie no raiding required, just a big material sink). It's not rocket science or anything.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

That's easy, make legendary armor crafting work like legendary weapon crafting does (ie no raiding required, just a big material sink). It's not rocket science or anything.

Or leave it like it is, it's still not rocket science or anything.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

19 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Thank god they added it. I really hate pvp, and i have a heavy despise for wvw, so the less time i spend in those modes doing content i dont like, the better it is for everyone who actually enjoys those modes.

 

Frankly every mode should have a way to get every bit of legendaries. PVP and WVW should both have recipes that can unlock Gen 1 and 2 weapons from just doing those modes, along with their own full set of jewelry and a unique armor skin per mode. PVE should too. So should Raids. Let players who enjoy whatever content they enjoy most and let them get BIS gear while doing it.

Anet needs to stop listening to design decisions like these. These kill game modes. IBS is the perfect example of designing with this philosophy, and look what happened, after 4 episodes and 3 maps it was aborted. After episode 1, they pretty much begged the hardcore community to stop leaving and offered a new fractal to stop the bleed.
 At this point pretty much everyone who was on the stage for the IBS announcement was gone from the company.

So where are we at now. 99% on content is for 1 spammers, then they demand more. If something comes out for pvp, raids, fractals, strikes, wvw, they come on these forums and complain that we pay for this game so stop developing this content and give us the rewards as well. And the game is dying (AION is outperforming gw2), everyone is hoping EoD is the redemption arc, or will pull a ff14 a realm reborn (notice new marketing "A cycle is reborn"), but it need to offer things to all communities, not just the 1 spammers. Rewards need to be exclusive otherwise they have no value.

[WindBlade.8749]

You know raids are pve ? do not change the definition of pve raids are still pve no matter what you say, you can say it's different from openworld yes but you can't say it's not pve.

Second, elistist != toxic, and in the year of raiding, which mean i play raid far more than playing openworld, i seen way more toxic people in openworld than in raid, i don't know why do people think raiding is filled with toxic people, and no requirement or asking a level to enter in a group is not toxic, maybe elitist but that not toxic.

 

[WindBlade.8749]

2 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

And the game is dying (AION is outperforming gw2)

as much as i agree to you, where do you got this information, i don't like fake informations to spread like this, no one have acess to gw2 players numbers (not sure about AION), the website classing MMO are false by the way if you want to know, it's just guessing on current trend and reddit activities.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

4 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Anet needs to stop listening to design decisions like these. These kill game modes. IBS is the perfect example of designing with this philosophy, and look what happened, after 4 episodes and 3 maps it was aborted. After episode 1, they pretty much begged the hardcore community to stop leaving and offered a new fractal to stop the bleed.
 At this point pretty much everyone who was on the stage for the IBS announcement was gone from the company.

So where are we at now. 99% on content is for 1 spammers, then they demand more. If something comes out for pvp, raids, fractals, strikes, wvw, they come on these forums and complain that we pay for this game so stop developing this content and give us the rewards as well. And the game is dying (AION is outperforming gw2), everyone is hoping EoD is the redemption arc, or will pull a ff14 a realm reborn (notice new marketing "A cycle is reborn"), but it need to offer things to all communities, not just the 1 spammers. Rewards need to be exclusive otherwise they have no value.

What is IBS?  The only thing I'm coming up with is Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

[WindBlade.8749]

2 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

What is IBS?  The only thing I'm coming up with is Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

not sure if you are trolling or not but if not it's Icebrood Saga, the saga that start after living world season 4

[superkaratemonkey.7408]

On 8/2/2021 at 3:51 AM, Danikat.8537 said:

I agree.

 

I've played both druid and soulbeast in raids and I can find groups that will accept a soulbeast, but then you're one of many damage specs which are largely interchangable, whereas most groups reserve spots specifically for druids because they need the healing and other support and druids are one of the best specs for that.

 

My advice is to talk to your raid group about it. A lot of players tend to assume that anyone doing raids has both elite specs unlocked and can switch between them easily, but if you explain that you don't have the right equipment to play a druid and aren't familiar with using it so you'd actually be more use as a soulbeast they should be able to sort something out.

condi soulbeast is meta in fractal cm100 and open world content literally doesnt matter, most fractal group s don't care, just join and have fun, there's more than enough groups that will accept people no matter what they have as long as you know the mechanics of the content you're doing.

 

as a matter of fact, if you're not elitist (top raiders != elitism and even then make up only 1% of the population) soulbeast works in any raid format without issue, you can hit 25k+ dps easily with any soulbeast condi/power build and that's more than enough since all raid bosses don't have a true DPS check outside of gorseval. 

 

threads like this always derail into general complaints in the point of view of top raiders, but they're no where close to actually being a top raider so it's an irrelevant discussion.... Most top raiders have master rotations and mechanics on more than 4-5 classes and know everything inside and out involving raids. If you have this knowledge, you wouldn't be on the forums in the first place complaining about being gated behind raids or which class doesn't DPS. You'd most likely have 500+ LI with all raids understood. 

 

people automatically think raiding = toxic elitism but don't realize that's such a SMALL portion of the community it would almost never reach you to even remotely have an affect on you and if people are being toxic you block them and move on.

 

there's more than enough raids full of people willing to help. [LooT] is just one of many with a full discord and does daily practice/training and exp runs with no toxicity at all, just all about learning and helping.

 

i think a lot of people get too swayed by the community and immediately think raids = toxicity without even giving a try first, then make opinions whilst never even trying raid content. once you start you'll realize it's not even remotely as bad as people make it out to be.

Edited August 3, 2021 by superkaratemonkey.7408

[Shadowmoon.7986]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:39 PM, WindBlade.8749 said:

as much as i agree to you, where do you got this information, i don't like fake informations to spread like this, no one have acess to gw2 players numbers (not sure about AION), the website classing MMO are false by the way if you want to know, it's just guessing on current trend and reddit activities.

https://kr.ncsoft.com/en/ir/irArchive/earningsRelease.do

Q1 earnings

Page 5, Aion has outperformed gw2 for that last two quarters. 

Edit: fixed the link, sorry could not link directly to the download.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Shadowmoon.7986

[Katary.7096]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:02 AM, Fenom.9457 said:

The problem is doing all the generalized pve is invalidated by requiring something that only comes from the smallest,  most niche, toxic part of the game.  Yes there are nice raiders but you’ll still find elitism more there than anywhere else.  You want armor? You gotta do content designed for 5-10% of the player base, and that’s a percentage game studios and hardcore raiders themselves reference constantly.  It’s not an exaggeration.  It’s also not just a little bit.  Like you only need each HoT meta once for the achievement and a few more times for some materials. No, you need OVER A HUNDRED kills.  *150* either you’re an experienced raider or you’ve never tried if you don’t realize how much of an absolutely MASSIVE task that is.  It’s an ungodly level of requirement for *casual* players.  So I reiterate, the average player of the game does not have a reasonably attainable set of legendary armor. Something that has both generalized and highly niche content isn’t a generalized pve set, it’s a raiding set.  You can’t call something generalized if it includes the least ‘general’ type of content in the game 

You said that there should be a generalized PvE set, I explained that there is a generalized PvE set already. Beyond that I don't really care.

On 8/3/2021 at 1:28 AM, Tails.9372 said:

 

Which perfectly illustrates why it's not "a generalised set" as it requires you to play specific subcontent so "an overarching HoT set" would be a more accurate description. An actual example of a generalised set would be the WvW one where most of the sub content counts for it while also not requiering anythig in specific.

Well, the focus on HoT content is likely linked to it being a HoT expansion exclusive feature. Since expacs include the base game I guess they could have added things like "Take control of the ruined city of Arah." or "Defeat the Claw of Jormag." or "Complete the "Not so secret" jumping puzzle." to the collections. But Meta-Events and World Bosses are already represented as content types in the current collections.

I think I get your reasoning here, but then I don't see how you could have any "generalized PvE" legendaries in gw2, since all of them are already requiring that you complete something specific. And yes, the WvW set is a very generalized WvW item.

13 hours ago, Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

That's easy, make legendary armor crafting work like legendary weapon crafting does (ie no raiding required, just a big material sink). It's not rocket science or anything.

Surely making the acquisition require less different types of PvE content would have to lead to a more specialized legendary item and not a more generalized one.

[Xanadrine.4352]

On 8/2/2021 at 4:36 AM, Dante.1763 said:

So. The thing is. This topic has been discussed to death, and at this point its up to anet to do something with the feedback. Theyve abandoned further development of raids due their population being not worth the cost of said support as is. Will they change how the armor is aquired? Probably not. Your best bet is to hope they implement a pve armor that has no raid requirement, which im in the crowd of hoping they do even though i do raids. Stupid wing 3. 😕

 

Further:

 

My condi and power soulbeasts have been the class i use the most in raids. Druid i just got, i unno what im doing with it at all. But power and condi soulbeasts are certainly still used. They cant do massive damage, but their damage is consistent if the player knows what they are doing.

Exactly why we have been asking for an open world set. A long chain across the world doing all kinds of collections achievements kills and even dungeon runs..in order to have something for the majority of players. I hope they do something with the feedback. They should engage more with us imo.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[blambidy.3216]

If you truly want legendary armor then your first set will take the longest because you need to understand raids. Also I’d suggest using the SC power soulbeast build but also be versatile. Raids use many different elite specs in different classes. Some fights are better as condi. Some fights power. So if you want to stay soulbeast at least invest into a viper set also. 
 

power Soulbeast is ok as long as you know how to use it correctly. However since your new that might not be the case. Practice in the raid golem and get a viper set and practice condi rotations. Bring the builds into fractals to better perfect them and then bring them into raids. 
 

also there are plenty of raid training guilds that will happily teach you. Do not blame the it on raids are too hard. They are not hard at all. They are hard at the start because there isn’t anything close to raids in game atm. It’s coming from open world into raids which is a big gap that you have to change. Strokes are still tech too easy to be compared to the difficulty like raids. 
 

repeat your combat rotations till you are able to do rotations while talking on the phone and eating a sandwich while playing. If you can’t do that then repeat till you can. Once you can do that your ready to not go in the golem anymore. Always practice. Even the best hit up the golem everyday. 

[Trejgon.9367]

11 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

https://ncsoft-brand-web.s3.ap-northeast-2.amazonaws.com/ncsoft/invest/result/20210510/report','1Q21_PT_ENG FINAL.pdf

Page 5, Aion has outperformed gw2 for that last two quarters. 

yo, your link is broken, and no matter how I attempt to fix it the only restult is "Access denied" xml 😉

 

aside from the link last time I checked, while Aion did outperform gw2 financially, it was all only on far eastern market, whith virtually no income from western audiences, and GW2 was last product of NCSoft that was actually earning any money on those western audiences.