Old Content is Not Enjoyable Solo and Needs to be Addressed before EoD

[Goettel.4389]

HoT has never been 'dead'.

L2use event timers.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Goettel.4389

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Goettel.4389 said:

HoT has never been 'dead'.

L2use event timers.

Well. Event timers are good for the metas, but not so much for everything else in those maps.

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The complain, while not well stated, DOES point to a valid concern. The question of what should be reasonable for content most individuals can complete on their own. Let's not pretend this was NOT a problem for many people when HoT was released. 

 

It doesn't need to change now just as it hasn't needed a change for years.  HoT HPs can be done solo, but not by everyone using any build they like.  If you struggle with them, the answer doesn't have to be that we make the content easier for everyone.  Nowhere is it written that HPs must be solo content for every player.  Besides, this compromise was already made.  It's why PoF has veterans instead of champions and why they have the bounty system instead.

 

It's fine.  HP train commanders like it the way it is.  Players who like to design and play open world solo builds for this type of content enjoy it.  There are multiple alternatives for players who don't enjoy it to complete this content as well.  No change is necessary.

[Goettel.4389]

HoT is great as-is, leave it alone.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

It doesn't need to change now just as it hasn't needed a change for years.  HoT HPs can be done solo, but not by everyone using any build they like.  If you struggle with them, the answer doesn't have to be that we make the content easier for everyone.  Nowhere is it written that HPs must be solo content for every player.  Besides, this compromise was already made.  It's why PoF has veterans instead of champions and why they have the bounty system instead.

 

It's fine.  HP train commanders like it the way it is.  Players who like to design and play open world solo builds for this type of content enjoy it.  There are multiple alternatives for players who don't enjoy it to complete this content as well.  No change is necessary.

OK .. I'm not arguing for it to change. In fact, I doubt it will change at this time. You are missing my point, that I have repeated numerous times. 

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

In short, OP, while it might seem to be a problem its usually best to ping map on HoT maps with a quick "Can i get help with x, y, or z".  Ridiculous bickering on posts here in the forum aside, you will find no shortage of people to help with content in the game and even on those maps. For bigger meta events on those maps, use the LFG panel to find groups that are doing specific things to ease the pain of clearing HoT maps.  Ultimately, it is still an MMO and sometimes you will need some extra coordination to get certain things done.  Happy hunting and try not to get too frustrated.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Mickey.4207 said:

Yes. HOT maps are deserted except for bauble farming. I dont think i will ever be able to complete the map considering the low interest in this part of game. The game is lot of fun till you hit the wall at HOT.

 

Lear to:

- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Event_timers (or any other event timers site, or use an add-on like TACO)

- use the games LFG section to get on the correct maps at correct times

 

Problem solved given HoT maps have remained active ever since the release of the expansion.

 

Your claim that HoT maps are deserted is plain incorrect and likely also a reason why the developers see no need to intervene here given the maps see regular play (unlike say their intervention with PoF metas and events which pre rework had problems).

Edited August 13, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Kusumura.8642]

13 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

The examples i literally just gave are some of those things that can happen depending on when one plays, including 3 instances of not being able to get enough players, one for multiple days, and one for two separate meta events.

 

And for more examples:

Ive watched Chak Gerant fail in the early morning.

 

ive seen AB have empty maps during the meta(With no squads up in LFG either).

 

Dragonstorm is almost entirely empty before a certain time in the morning for my time zone, i know, ive camped it.

 

Hes not -fully- wrong.

 

For stuff like HP i can only think of a few(Champion level) ones that id love to watch be soloed.

 

When it comes to events? hes partially correct, for HOT, depending on multiple factors.

 

 

POF is much easier than HOT and id put it at 95% for being soloable, and 99% for being duoable. Even the legendaries can be killed by less than 10.

1 hour ago, Dante.1763 said:

Well. Event timers are good for the metas, but not so much for everything else in those maps.

Dante! ❤️ Always love seeing you in threads.

There are usually LFG-squads that are filling up the maps for metas well in advance of the meta events themselves, and a lot of the people in said squads are bored and more than happy to roam about if someone needs help with something specific before the event.

I will agree that depending on what shard you are defaulted to, the maps feel significantly more vacated of life, but it's on an individual level to go find a squad to join from LFG.. and if there isn't one, well. It is an online game. There are quiet times.

 

 

2 hours ago, Mickey.4207 said:

Yes. HOT maps are deserted except for bauble farming. I dont think i will ever be able to complete the map considering the low interest in this part of game. The game is lot of fun till you hit the wall at HOT.

On maps being deserted: False, see above.

On there being a suddenly difficulty spike: Frell, yeah. Oh God, yes, and it really is not polite. I loathe and despise the HoT maps, and I ain't afraid to admit it. I will refuse to buy EoD if I see any more of the shenanigans that HoT tried to pull.

"lol l2p".
No. It's not enjoyable. It's not fun. I do not enjoy being funneled from trash-mob battle to trash-mob battle. I do not enjoy having to roam around what are essentially Final Fantasy-style corridors that have Metroid-esque "interaction points". I do not enjoy my agency and choice to flee being restricted, or sudden Mid-Tier mobs walking into an encounter every time I stop and fight in the name of continuing on my path.

It's mentally exhausting, it drains and saps the will to keep playing, and until I had PoF mounts to go back (Which.. for whatever faults people may say about them, returned back the feeling of agency and choice in whether I fight, flee, or I mess up and get stuck fighting), I didn't touch the content anymore than I absolutely had to.

[sewenewes.4176]

On 8/11/2021 at 5:40 PM, Genesis.5169 said:

OP's suggestion is the exact reason why many people left after HoT launch and during PoF. And is the exact reason why pvp is dead. If you want to play a single player game there are plenty of them to play with better story and you don't have to ruin the game for anyone else and play your way.

 

Catering to the lowest common denominator destroys communities no mmo hand holds like GW2.

 

People left after HoT and during PoF because of multiple reasons but a major factor was the stark increase in difficulty compared to the base game. Arenanet could of course "solve" this problem by raising the difficulty of the base game and with that cull even more of their more casual or less skilled population which I'm sure would do wonders for their profit margins. That's sarcasm, in case it needs to be said.

 

The peope craving a true test of skill or more punishing gameplay mechanics have plenty of MMOs to choose from so following your logic they should head to those games instead of ruining this one for anyone else - especially since this game started out catering to what you call the lowest common denominator. It's incredibly easy to turn around these kind of poorly thought-out arguments.

 

I very much agree that as more and more maps have been added to the game, an increasing number of them have become mostly barren outside of the few days per year when they are selected for the event completer daily. Same goes for the dungeons and increasingly for the raids. This is the natural progression of expanding online games and not something I blame Arenanet for. However, quite a few things are tied to such "abandonware" content, such as armour and weapons sets, map completion, skill points, and legendaries. It's more than fair to ask for a reduction in difficulty of some content that is past its prime so that it isn't gated behind organized groups or whole squads. Because this issue isn't affecting solo players but also those who play in small groups or in shorter bursts.

[Sobx.1758]

12 minutes ago, ewenness.6482 said:

The peope craving a true test of skill or more punishing gameplay mechanics have plenty of MMOs to choose from so following your logic they should head to those games instead of ruining this one for anyone else - especially since this game started out catering to what you call the lowest common denominator. It's incredibly easy to turn around these kind of poorly thought-out arguments.

Or maybe people that complain about some degree of group play in mmorpgs should switch to single player games, while people complaining about everything being suddenly too hard because they need to have a semi-coherent build while using their skills in somewhat logical manner instead of spamming everything "off cooldown" should learn the mechanics of the game they play instead of expecting "telltale experience" from action mmorpgs?

Who knows.

 

The game "starting slow" isn't anything out of ordinary, it's an introductory content.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[sewenewes.4176]

57 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The game "starting slow" isn't anything out of ordinary, it's an introductory content.

 

The whole game was an introductory content? Really? Arenanet designed the entire base game as an extended tutorial in preparation for an expansion that they originally weren't even going to make? When people talk about the base game being easier than the expansion, they mean the whole game. Not just the starting zones. There are very few things in the base game I can't solo and nothing that can't be done with three people.

 

In comparison, many HoT skill points and events require a minimum of three people and to actually complete the big meta events you need a whole squad. For the more difficult ones, you need the squad to also be highly organized. Someone will bring up the nerf to Orr but even before its nerf Orr was doable with a mate or two.

 

No one is saying that group content should be eliminated from the game. People are asking that group content that has become largely abandoned, outside of the occassional organized squad which you may never encounter depending on your availability, to get adjusted accordingly. I haven't seen Verdant Brink reach tier four in years because the dedicated few doing it are not playing when I am. I got the bladed armour set completed for all armour types long ago so this doesn't personally impact me but it does impact people who picked up the game after the popularity of the Verdant Brink meta waned.

 

Same with events like the Anomaly and Serpent's Ire which are even part of the griffon collection. I know people who were happy to play and spend money on Gem Store shinies but trying to get the griffon eventually soured them on the game because they got stuck on those steps and for months couldn't find successful squads at the times they could be online.

[Cuks.8241]

Maybe you people play in some odd times but as far as my experience Hot maps are by far the most populated and getting help with just slapping mentor tag on is usually a matter of a minute or 2. Even "normal" event chains like all the outpost event chains are always in progress. Comparing to Pof or core which are mostly empty.

So if anything Hot maps are tuned perfectly to keep players in the game because they offer some actual game play instead of boredom.

[Sobx.1758]

29 minutes ago, ewenness.6482 said:

The whole game was an introductory content? Really? Arenanet designed the entire base game as an extended tutorial in preparation for an expansion that they originally weren't even going to make? When people talk about the base game being easier than the expansion, they mean the whole game. Not just the starting zones. There are very few things in the base game I can't solo and nothing that can't be done with three people.

Do you think the whole game was on the same level of difficulty? It wasn't. But a lot of core content IS an introductory content. And then it ramps up, with expansions going further which is ok, seeing how not only expecting the players to understand the game better the longer they play it is absolutely reasonable, but also considering the expansions bring more power to the player than we initially had in core game.

 

29 minutes ago, ewenness.6482 said:

People are asking that group content that has become largely abandoned

It's not largely abandoned, it's regularly played by groups or even zergs.

 

29 minutes ago, ewenness.6482 said:

Same with events like the Anomaly

What anomaly? The leyline one that's consistently done within 2 minutes of it starting?

 

Quote

and Serpent's Ire

This one gets a "maybe" from me. It was already nerfed to require less people, but this one suffers because there's another meta event on the map. Still doable if YOU try to organize for the event before it starts, but not necessarily on the first try. Except that's not the complaint of this thread. Or yours, in the previous post, where you were simply complaining about difficulty levels. These are 2 different things.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[DeceiverX.8361]

People here really be gatekeeping OW exploration objectives?  Like what?  The point of OW exploration is easier content designed to cater to that sense of wonder. 

 

Locking that behind map metas and stuff is bad.  That belongs as achievements and special loot, not map complete lol. 

[Obtena.7952]

21 minutes ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

People here really be gatekeeping OW exploration objectives?  Like what?  The point of OW exploration is easier content designed to cater to that sense of wonder. 

 

Locking that behind map metas and stuff is bad.  That belongs as achievements and special loot, not map complete lol. 

Yes, they are. Basically, that's the complaint of the many people I knew who left at HoT. Like, somehow Anet thought "Hey, let's turn map completion and exploring into a group event". That really struck a blow to the idea that people could play how they want in this game. These things are related because if explore content is so hard that grouping becomes the primary solution to it for most players, then as a player running around solo, it requires special build considerations to accommodate that difficulty. 

 

Put it this way ... if the game is to continue promoting the idea that people play how they want ... where should that idea be BEST implemented? Seems to me that's best done as OW content. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

People here really be gatekeeping OW exploration objectives?  Like what?  The point of OW exploration is easier content designed to cater to that sense of wonder. 

Gatekeeping? Is it really the favorite word of people that didn't get "their way" in how the game plays? Nothing's "gatekept" here. Are you really complaining about "hero challenges" being slightly more "challenging" here or there? (but still can be soloed btw)

 

Quote

Locking that behind map metas and stuff is bad.  That belongs as achievements and special loot, not map complete lol. 

Said who exactly? If it was supposed to be completed without interaction with [hostile]environment or completing any events, then it would be exactly that way: an empty map for you to just go through the checkpoints. But that's clearly not the intention of map completion and it never was. Why do you think metas are there in the first palce? To NOT be played? Because the game creators somehow didn't know what points are behind what activities? For now it's pretty evident that the HoT maps -and their completion process- are supposed to be what they currently are.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Gotejjeken.1267]

50 minutes ago, ewenness.6482 said:

 

The whole game was an introductory content? Really? Arenanet designed the entire base game as an extended tutorial in preparation for an expansion that they originally weren't even going to make? When people talk about the base game being easier than the expansion, they mean the whole game. Not just the starting zones. There are very few things in the base game I can't solo and nothing that can't be done with three people.

 

This just tells me they need to buff Orr, because before HoT you wern't solo'ing Orr very easily.  Also no way you were solo doing big event chains in Malchor's or Cursed Shore.  

 

If anything HoT is simply an extension of main game mechanics that added other things like gliding which made it perceived to be harder.  Add in the e-specs and proper builds though and it is no harder than its ever been.  

[sewenewes.4176]

22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Do you think the whole game was on the same level of difficulty? It wasn't.

 

No one claimed it was but even the hardest maps in the base game are easier than expansion content. 

 

28 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not largely abandoned, it's regularly played by groups or even zergs.

 

It's not played regularly enough considering the oft repeated complaint of people struggling to get maps completed, hero points earned, or other types of progression completed.

 

Considering your comments on this forum are just a repetition of "git gud" as you tell everyone with any sort of complaint or suggestion that they just need to play better, I don't see the point in engaging in good faith discussion. Feel free to once again remind everyone that you have them beat in the most casual MMORPG. We're all very impressed.

 

1 minute ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

This just tells me they need to buff Orr, because before HoT you wern't solo'ing Orr very easily.  Also no way you were solo doing big event chains in Malchor's or Cursed Shore. 

 

Currently, you can solo them. Before HoT, you could  do them with two to three people (depending on class and skill level) which I wrote in my original comment.

 

1 hour ago, ewenness.6482 said:

There are very few things in the base game I can't solo and nothing that can't be done with three people.

 

&

 

57 minutes ago, ewenness.6482 said:

Someone will bring up the nerf to Orr but even before its nerf Orr was doable with a mate or two.

 

The final temple events were an exception, of course, but the pre-events could be done with a small group.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, ewenness.6482 said:

No one claimed it was but even the hardest maps in the base game are easier than expansion content. 

For some reason you keep cutting out major parts of my posts, some of which already contain the answers to what you're later responding with. I'm not sure if it's intentional, so I guess I'll start quoting what I've already said above to make sure you've read it? I mean, it's literally RIGHT after the part you've quoted: 

 

Do you think the whole game was on the same level of difficulty? It wasn't. But a lot of core content IS an introductory content. And then it ramps up, with expansions going further which is ok, seeing how not only expecting the players to understand the game better the longer they play it is absolutely reasonable, but also considering the expansions bring more power to the player than we initially had in core game.

 

Quote

It's not played regularly enough

It is played regularly multiple times a day, pretty much "on timer". I don't know how that's "not regularly enough", considering it could hardly be more regularly than it is.

 

Quote

Considering your comments on this forum are just a repetition of "git gud" as you tell everyone

Nope, that's not what I'm doing. Maybe instead of pretending I'm saying things I'm not in an attempt to make me "the bad guy", try to cut out less of my posts and respond to the words I actually write.

 

Quote

Feel free to once again remind everyone that you have them beat in the most casual MMORPG.

???

I don't see how that's an answer to anything I wrote.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Xanadrine.4352]

17 hours ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

what, AB Never fail theses deads and always have full map.

Dragonstand is still often done if you don't go at weird hours.

Ok there is some weird small event chain that are never done but cmon you are just lying right now.

HoT map lfg are always full when meta starts.

Wow seriously AB fails it just failed a few nights ago when I went there. No one on west but me, comm was calling out we need people on all gates. Saying it never fails is not true at all, it does fail, unless you play on EU or some perfect golden timeframe its not easy to get metas done. Im not lying when I say it fails more than not that I see. For you to sit there and say it never fails is hyperbole.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[costepj.5120]

35 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Wow seriously AB fails it just failed a few nights ago when I went there. No one on west but me, comm was calling out we need people on all gates. Saying it never fails is not true at all, it does fail, unless you play on EU or some perfect golden timeframe its not easy to get metas done. Im not lying when I say it fails more than not that I see. For you to sit there and say it never fails is hyperbole.

Sounds like you were on an overflow map.

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

Sounds like you were on an overflow map.

Why would that happen? Is that like when i go to join a Teq taxi? then im stuck on the losing map?

Edited August 13, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[WindBlade.8749]

17 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Why would that happen? Is that like when i go to join a Teq taxi? then im stuck on the losing map?

baiscly when there is too much people on meta event, multiple map are made, overflow map are just map with the last few people that is not enough to make the 5th map group cause you never get a number of pepole that is even to do a clean cut.

So you should go on meta before they start to be 100% sure you get on the first 1-4 maps group.

Edited August 13, 2021 by WindBlade.8749

[AliamRationem.5172]

19 minutes ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

baiscly when there is too much people on meta event, multiple map are made, overflow map are just map with the last few people that is not enough to make the 5th map group cause you never get a number of pepole that is even to do a clean cut.

So you should go on meta before they start to be 100% sure you get on the first 1-4 maps group.

 

Even overflow maps can complete, though.  I was on such a map 2 days ago.  No tags or armors with less than 5 minutes til meta.  I tagged up.  Asked for other tags in map and listed in lfg.

 

South ended up burning in a single go and we completed the event in short order.  No issues.  

 

Can it fail? Yes.  And certainly on dead maps when everyone waits for somebody else to step up and organize, but there are always players looking to do these events and they get completed on multiple map instances round the clock.

 

HoT maps are dead is a meme as old as HoT.  This game will be dead when it becomes true, but we're not even close.  If you think otherwise you just don't understand what you're seeing.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, ewenness.6482 said:

 

No one claimed it was but even the hardest maps in the base game are easier than expansion content. 

 

 

It's not played regularly enough considering the oft repeated complaint of people struggling to get maps completed, hero points earned, or other types of progression completed.

 

Considering your comments on this forum are just a repetition of "git gud" as you tell everyone with any sort of complaint or suggestion that they just need to play better, I don't see the point in engaging in good faith discussion. Feel free to once again remind everyone that you have them beat in the most casual MMORPG. We're all very impressed.

 

 

Currently, you can solo them. Before HoT, you could  do them with two to three people (depending on class and skill level) which I wrote in my original comment.

 

 

&

 

 

The final temple events were an exception, of course, but the pre-events could be done with a small group.

 

Why are you responding to yourself?