Legendary armor by pve exploration [Merged]

[Captain Kuro.8937]

8 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

You seems to mistaken history.

According to developers, raid population is super healthy throughout 2015~2016, which is the year when legendary armor makes introduction for raids.

 

You mean the year , where people where forced to kill at least one raid boss , so they can start collecting spirit shards again ?

 

Little ballsy that lasted for 2 years , i don't expect anything less 🙂 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[killforbeers.7534]

1st legendary gear = ascended gear just that legendary gear is easier to update.

 

For me if you want pvp/wvw legendary gear you go to pvp/wvw.

 

If you want pve legendary then it would be Raids in this game so far.

 

World exploration can be completed really fast and I never so far played a game where exploration granted you best game gear or in this case legendary.

 

My take on the legendary is the same understanding in other games where if you want top gear or again.. in this case legendary gear it's understood as hard work and not easy to get.

 

Now in this game legendary is not really top gear as it is the same as ascended gear stat it is just easier to change builds with legendary.

 

I am working on my WvW legendary gear as that is my main focus but I do some pve for now but I can tell you if I want the PVE or mix the look of PVE and some WvW or PvP legendary gear that is reachable as well just have to work and make sure I have the builds needed to get to that goal.  The same goes for the legendary weapons as I am working on those as well.

 

I wonder if we get a legendary fishing pole for fishing ... jk.

 

 

[Fuchslein.8639]

Me and a few people are doing a training raid at Saturday around 8pm. There will probably be 3(4) experienced players (which was quite enough last time).
All those who speak German and want to see Wing 1 and 4 in a relaxed environment, with explanations and co. and have the minimum exo-gear and 15-20k on the Golem as DPS'ler are welcome to come along ^^.

Toxic people are kicked without a second chance.

[ASP.8093]

21 minutes ago, killforbeers.7534 said:

I wonder if we get a legendary fishing pole for fishing ... jk.

Legendary aqua breather when, tho.

[killforbeers.7534]

10 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

Legendary aqua breather when, tho.

You are right, what about the Legendary aqua breather from what I see the legendary template that is the only item left that is still an ascended item.

Edited August 24, 2021 by killforbeers.7534

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

So you are saying the commanders of things like triple trouble deserve legendary armor, well to that I agree.

The zerg tho do not.

Well I'm saying neither, but what I said early on in this topic is that I would agree to have OW based legendaries as long as the effort is comparable to the others. I mainly do OW and WvW. Not into WvW hardcore but I do enjoy it and it makes other things easier, but I don't WvW enough to get the skirmish tickets at a fast enough rate to warrant getting the WvW armor done anytime soon.

 

Also I'm not complaining about legendaries requiring stuff that I don't usually do or care for. If I want something I either won't get it or I suck it up and do it, no matter how long it takes me. That is all. For example, I had to do fractals for Nevermore. I don't really care for them but I did them, got it over with and now I have Nevermore.

 

I also know that for ad infinitum I'll have to do more fractals to at least gain the currency. Haven't looked at it closely enough but if I have to do raids for them, then I would have to think about that one, but I'll cross that bridge once I have Aurora 😉 

[Cuks.8241]

WvW legendary armor is a specific one. The acquisition method is not something I would agree with in general. I do argue for best rewards should be gated by skill.

Technically it is possible to even fully afk the tickets there; find a commander that shares participation with you and you can afk at spawn for about half to 1 year and you're done.

But WvW is a specific game mode. In ladder PVP you can gate rewards behind ranks or mmr and you have the skill gate there. But in WvW there are numerous activities you can do and help your server win. Anet doesn't want to discourage people to do those activities or on the other hand push people into specific lucrative activities. For example scouting is important for PVT but can be very passive, main reason for shared participation.

In addition, in WvW a single player doesn't have much impact on the overall score. Especially now with links when you could be on the top one week and on the bottom the next. It's really impossible to gauge personal contribution without pushing players into specific activities (for example personal K/D ratio) or rewarding only the winning commanders or guild leaders.

For the reasons above and also for the reason that legendary armor is probably the most useful in WvW where playing different builds and changing between them based on the situation is a necessity to be successful, I think the acquisition is suitable for the mode. But in my opinion for WvW only. The time gate is underestimated on the forums though, it's huge for anyone but dedicated WvW players.

I do not agree with pvp acquisition method though.  In ladder pvp best rewards should be mmr/rank gated. For example WoW arena (at least at the time when I played, up to cataclysm). You could get minor set with grind but certain pieces of the best set are mmr gated. Rewards in pvp should be given ONLY for winning. This is not the trend lately with games and it sucks because you have than people just grinding and not playing for win which is bad for the game.

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I'm just interested in why you think WvW is harder than OW content. I don't see it and because of your vagueness and evasiveness, it's clear to me that it's just your opinion because you can't explain why you think that. 

 

And of course I don't think that supply camps are all there is in WvW. There are towers, keeps and a castle in EB. So please don't put words in my mouth. There's outguessing the opponents and see where they will strike next. And I do all that, but in the end I do it for the pips and reward tracks.

 

And no it's not your job, but you haven't made a single good argument for your statement, so that's actually what I want to hear from you: arguments to support your statement. Just saying it's harder doesn't mean a thing. Anyone can say that, but without arguments it's just a hollow statement.

 

Yea I find that kind of rhetoric of just interaction with enemy players questionable. The actual mechanics of fighting other players leaves much to be desired.

The thing is just that enemy players can prevent you from accomplishing what you need to do. If you have a lot of players camping enemy camps, then it becomes much more of a challenge to evade them, and some of them would even try to spawn camp you. and even the veteran creature and people are bored enough to do that

 

So even on a basic level of camp flipping becomes much harder when there are players to stop you. Yes, you can try endlessly, but having a bit of skill helps and if you get farmed for too long, your participation will start dying.

 

In this very thread we had people complaining that the game mode was unplayable because they would get instakilled by players and preventing that has its own difficulty.

 

And of course, this is just the very basics of the game mode, and none of  concerns things like attacking structures or leading a map via commanding. Yes, most of it doesn't help you get legendaries, but it does result in less time spend getting skirmish tickets (it's capped anyways) as well as more materials and whatnot.

 

It is  true that you could get WvW legendary armor without much contribution though, but that's a flaw in the reward system (and also WvW legendary armor) rather than the game mode itself.

 

Of course, removing easy ways to get participation  like events and vet creatures would probably just harm non-WvWers the most. J hope you will agree that merely doing that to increase the legitimacy of the armor is a waste of everyone's time.

Edited August 24, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Cyninja.2954]

8 hours ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Edit - Also accounts that actively  play Raids  atm , they get a "special channel" .

So other people can't come to  their groups and they can't join others for 1-2 months  , to avoid scenarios  like when Strikes where released .

When strikes released?
I think you have a very weird misconception of what happened "when strikes released". I mean I'm pretty sure I know what you are thinking of what happened, it's just that you could not be more wrong. Let me help you:

 

When the initial strikes released, most of the hardcore players, no matter the game mode as well as many more casual players gave strikes a shot. The LFG was full with all types of groups, some of which required LI or KP, especially once more difficult strikes were added, which filled slower.

 

As time moved on, many more casual players, as well as some more hardcore players, dropped out of the content. I've probably run a couple of hundreds of strikes myself before turning my back on the content or just doing it occasionally (first just weekly, now not at all). This affects all content and players who are less inclined to grind the same content over and over are the first to leave in general (aka less dedicated players). Which makes sense, given that many players grow bored of content rather fast.

 

aaaand that's where we are now. Just the most strike loving players remain. Most dedicated players have all the rewards and have moved on. The few that remain either make groups with requirements, which fill more slowly, or make groups without requirements which usually fill up quite fast. Often clearing the "easy" 3 strikes and occasionally all of them.

 

If you think that limiting access to specific content is in any way beneficial, I really want to have what you are smoking. I'm also pretty sure that most players who have experience with more challenging content are not the ones who would suffer with such a barrier. It's in the nature of more dedicated players to find ways around issues, not sure that applies to more casual players the same way.

 

Tbh, I would love to have something like this implemented. Have in-game hard-coded limitation of who can group with whom. Make it so the moment you have 1 LI or LD, you are counted towards the "hardcore" crowd. I would just want to see these forums burn with how terrible such an idea is, just to leave a well placed: "I told you so" or "this was to be expected" on such an asinine impeccably stupid idea.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Captain Kuro.8937]

8 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

When strikes released?
I think you have a very weird misconception of what happened "when strikes released". I mean I'm pretty sure I know what you are thinking of what happened, it's just that you could not be more wrong. Let me help you:

 

When the initial strikes released, most of the hardcore players, no matter the game mode as well as many more casual players gave strikes a shot. The LFG was full with all types of groups, some of which required LI or KP, especially once more difficult strikes were added, which filled slower.

 

As time moved on, many more casual players, as well as some more hardcore players, dropped out of the content. I've probably run a couple of hundreds of strikes myself before turning my back on the content or just doing it occasionally (first just weekly, now not at all). This affects all content and players who are less inclined to grind the same content over and over are the first to leave in general (aka less dedicated players). Which makes sense, given that many players grow bored of content rather fast.

 

aaaand that's where we are now. Just the most strike loving players remain. Most dedicated players have all the rewards and have moved on. The few that remain either make groups with requirements, which fill more slowly, or make groups without requirements which usually fill up quite fast. Often clearing the "easy" 3 strikes and occasionally all of them.

 

If you think that limiting access to specific content is in any way beneficial, I really want to have what you are smoking. I'm also pretty sure that most players who have experience with more challenging content are not the ones who would suffer with such a barrier. It's in the nature of more dedicated players to find ways around issues, not sure that applies to more casual players the same way.

 

Tbh, I would love to have something like this implemented. Have in-game hard-coded limitation of who can group with whom. Make it so the moment you have 1 LI or LD, you are counted towards the "hardcore" crowd. I would just want to see these forums burn with how terrible such an idea is, just to leave a well placed: "I told you so" or "this was to be expected" on such an asinine impeccably stupid idea.

 

Whats exactly is the problem ?

Fractals chat tier works the same , being divided and happy .

Most of them lurk in Tier3 , where they  belong with their pitiful dps

(but its tooo much divided , something must go away , especially in offtimes)

 

Occasionally they whine about HP sponge bosses  or Deepstone Fractal-too-many-things-to-do-end-boss ( let his slaughter another mob to intimidate you and show his attacks , before you engage -video like-or memory of a eye witness)  , and all groups will agree about that

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[Cuks.8241]

I have only 1 problem with having anything that is not purely cosmetic exclusive to raids. The game mode is not supported anymore. I have the same issue with balance patches targeted to raids. That handful of strikes that you can clear in 30 mins is just not worth mentioning. 

I am completely fine and actually encourage that legendary gear is gated behind hard content. Be it Fractal CMs if they continue to support fractals, upcoming Strikes CMs, hell could be even story CMs if hard enough, but it should not be exclusive to dead content.

In no way this is related to envoy skin. Those are raid skins and that is fine. 

It is actually a wonder how many people play raids regardless that the content is not supported at all for some time now. I get that for pvp modes where the challenge is the other player and there is always the unpredictable factor. The fact that people still play scripted pve content after so much time is actually a testament how good raids actually are and how this game could be a proper raiding mmorpg if supported and advertised.

[Sobx.1758]

On 8/22/2021 at 10:10 PM, Rinagal.9235 said:

Hello to you too, lier. I see you're taking words out of context again, yes, very convenient.

Thanks, but not lying about anything. Context has nothing to do with it either as far as I'm concerned, seeing how "i can do so with exotic/ascended gear " this is just true and then getting anything beyond that gear is every player's decision and nothing more.

[Bear.9568]

Leg gear is a goal and shouldn't be handed out in pve for simply playing the game.

 

PvP = Time, skill, toxicity - Worthy of legendary armor

WvW =  Lots of time, low skill, boring af without a commander - Worthy of legendary armor

Raids = Time, skill, big learning curve - Worthy of legendary armor

 

PvE = Time, no skill, no learning curve, beyond casual - NOT WORTHY OF LEGENDARY ARMOR

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

12 hours ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

they remove it ?

Yes.  It didn't work and their automated system would ban someone for an empty string or just having cheat engine open (but not actively scanning values of anything.)  there was a whole slew of drama over this on Reddit (here) where someone enacted the GDPR to get their information and they found that their account was illegitimately suspended over an empty string the program sent back.
 

12 hours ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

When the content(Raid)  was created with in mind of :

Core power spikes

No 25stack of Might

No quickness

Exotic Gear

No healers

(If all these are used , then proceed to kill the boss in 4min)

 it doesn't sound to be very deserving either .

 

Edit:If gold runs are allowed barely by the company , is there going to be a way for the community to suppress  them ?

The community after a while will come in mutual understanding after the "Raid-Wars"

They can hide , in some other LFG categories , like a secret society 

 

Raids were created with the same mindset as dungeons; use of class synergies to overcome big bad bosses and explore a big area.  They dropped the latter in favor of the former (Because, let's be honest, who enjoyed Arah Path 4 their first time when they constantly got lost looking for the next boss?)

Boons have always played a role.  Back when dungeons where the endgame meta, people would always blast fire fields for might (And brought an ele for fury) before every boss, have a mesmer to give big quickness with timewarp, and burst down the boss.  The whole game has always been built around utilization of boons and unique buffs to bring out more damage or mitigate damage.

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Bear.9568 said:

Leg gear is a goal and shouldn't be handed out in pve for simply playing the game.

 

PvP = Time, skill, toxicity - Worthy of legendary armor

WvW =  Lots of time, low skill, boring af without a commander - Worthy of legendary armor

Raids = Time, skill, big learning curve - Worthy of legendary armor

 

PvE = Time, no skill, no learning curve, beyond casual - NOT WORTHY OF LEGENDARY ARMOR

 

Well here's the thing. It could be possible to make Open Wold challenging and have a legendary focused around that content. I'm not sure how, but stuff like JPs (without help from other people) would be an example. We already have 2 earrings around that concept.

 

However, it would most likely still not revolve around farming easy open world content such as mere exploration. Then we're back to square one, as some people will still think it's too hard as long as it involves stuff they don't want to do. Possibly by the same people too.

 

As an example, imagine a challenge that requires you to speedrun exploration of each  individual core map within a certain time limit.  Say you have 30m to do all of Queensdale, and 45m for Cursed Shore (just making this up and ignore the logistics of how that'll work)

That would take "skill" for sure but how many are going to go along with that?

(Though I suppose I don't really think the focus of legendaries should be based around skill)

Edited August 24, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Bear.9568 said:

Leg gear is a goal and shouldn't be handed out in pve for simply playing the game.

 

PvP = Time, skill, toxicity - Worthy of legendary armor

WvW =  Lots of time, low skill, boring af without a commander - Worthy of legendary armor

Raids = Time, skill, big learning curve - Worthy of legendary armor

 

PvE = Time, no skill, no learning curve, beyond casual - NOT WORTHY OF LEGENDARY ARMOR

Whether it's worthy or not is irrelevant. The question is if it's got the return on investment for Anet to implement it. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

37 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

(Though I suppose I don't really think the focus of legendaries should be based around skill)

The intent with legendary items is to prove your mastery over the game or a game mode.  This is why Gen2 legendary weapons and all future legendary equipment can't be traded.

[Tails.9372]

14 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

The intent with legendary items is to prove your mastery over the game or a game mode.

 

Which ofc. excludes all legendary WvW and most legendary sPvP gear.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 minute ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

Which ofc. excludes all legendary WvW and most legendary sPvP gear.

There's no way you're getting full legendary WvW & PvP gear and not at least having some mastery over the mode.  Sure, you could AFK it all, but that'd take you literal months per set.  Not even people in full envoy are 100% peak performance  in PvE.

[ArchonWing.9480]

17 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

The intent with legendary items is to prove your mastery over the game or a game mode.  This is why Gen2 legendary weapons and all future legendary equipment can't be traded.

What do gen 2 weapons really prove mastery of though?

[Firebeard.1746]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:51 AM, Westenev.5289 said:

I mean, if Anet just hands out gear that can take on any stat, I imagine what remains of the gw2 economy would tank...

I mean technically anyone could spam PVP and then ranked PVP after hitting 20 and get legendary armor, you don't even have to win. Given how little Anet seems to punish bad actors, I wonder if you could AFK it, but I'm not evil enough to try. I expect at some point this will happen, that the market gets saturated. There's literally no unique legendary slot for raids anymore now that WvW covers the rings. But Anet either has a plan or thinks it will take us all so long to get there that they won't bother fixing it.

@OP: Maybe WvW?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

17 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

What do gen 2 weapons really prove mastery of though?

The first 3; PvE exploration.  Knowledge of the maps (HoT or PoF) and  where to find the events (or materials) necessary to complete the collections.  The rest are jsut busy work for material farming.

Gen 1 imply a mastery over Core Tyria. 
Envoy armor  implies a mastery over HoT's content (Maps, meta events, and instanced content).
Coalescence PoF & its content (Similar to Envoy armor, but a single piece and not a legendary armor set)
Aurora & Vision for Living World seasons 3 & 4 mastery
Ad Infinitum; Fractal Mastery
Ascension; Mastery over PvP
Warbringer; Mastery over WvW

The armor sets for WvW and PvP seem to not consider how one participates in the game mode.  From how it looks like they were implemented, ANet added them for the purpose of satisfying hardcore WvW & PvP players with their desire for legendary armor, but forgot that some people will just AFK/Throw matches for the loot.  Then there's the gen 2 weapons without a collection.  These sets are the exceptions, not the rule.

[Astralporing.1957]

27 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

There's no way you're getting full legendary WvW & PvP gear and not at least having some mastery over the mode.  Sure, you could AFK it all, but that'd take you literal months per set.  Not even people in full envoy are 100% peak performance  in PvE.

So, legendaries do not, in fact, prove a mastery over the game or the mode, even in case of raids? Duly noted.

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

The first 3; PvE exploration.  Knowledge of the maps (HoT or PoF) and  where to find the events (or materials) necessary to complete the collections.  The rest are jsut busy work for material farming.

That would imply that open world mastery is indeed a thing though...

 

 

3 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

 

 

Gen 1 imply a mastery over Core Tyria. 
Envoy armor  implies a mastery over HoT's content (Maps, meta events, and instanced content).
Coalescence PoF & its content (Similar to Envoy armor, but a single piece and not a legendary armor set)
Aurora & Vision for Living World seasons 3 & 4 mastery
Ad Infinitum; Fractal Mastery
Ascension; Mastery over PvP
Warbringer; Mastery over WvW

The armor sets for WvW and PvP seem to not consider how one participates in the game mode.  From how it looks like they were implemented, ANet added them for the purpose of satisfying hardcore WvW & PvP players with their desire for legendary armor, but forgot that some people will just AFK/Throw matches for the loot.  Then there's the gen 2 weapons without a collection.  These sets are the exceptions, not the rule.

WvW and PvP implementation was probably flawed.  And yes, I was pointing out the non-collection Gen 2s. There really isn't an easy way to measure WvW mastery, and I doubt anyone could agree on what it is, so that's why it's so open ended.

It's highly questionable that Ad Infinitum really represents fractal mastery.  I believe there's just one challenge that requires t4 (Mai Trinn)  and 25 minutes is not really a time limit.

It seems to be more that legendaries are more about "I played a lot of this content and all I got was this lousy skin". Which I don't really have an issue with.

[Tails.9372]

9 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

There's no way you're getting full legendary WvW & PvP gear and not at least having some mastery over the mode.

 

Ofc. there is, iirc only the legendary PvP backpack has anything that can be called "requiring some sort of mastery over the game mode" and even that heavily depends how you define "mastery over the game mode". Everything else (in regards to gear at least) might raise some assumptions but ultimately "proves" nothing. If all one does is flipping camps and fighting veteran creatures (like oftentimes suggested when people ask for "easy ways to get legendary armor") or watching a movie while being afk in sPvP then I wouldn't exactly expect that person to have much "mastery over the game mode".

 

 

10 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Sure, you could AFK it all

 

Which is exactly why it doesn't prove anything.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

but that'd take you literal months per set.

 

Sure but that doesn't seem to be that much of a deterrent given how often I see players complain about it.