Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[Adibas.6982]

I will play Virt because its a new and different mesmer playtime but as it is I will be doing so despite what it brings not because of it. 

Hopefully it will be more useful sometime

[Flow.2947]

 PVE

the blade generation was only good when you had the condi line on. But dagger was really good imo. you are able to play really quick on your F-skills. Sword offhand was the choice for me. There was a good synergy using your crits on your phantasm and stocking blades. 100% expertise helped a lot in this case. Healing is very good on this spec and a lot of fun. I am using traids i thought are garbage before.

PVP

i used top lane in traits (virtuoso). Well i am not a good player but was surprised that i had almost all games top stats in dmg and/or healing. I was using chaos line and Inspiration. When you are using your max range you are really able to outplay your opponents. You can force them to decide to hit your block so you get your heals off. Your mobility on your sword is something i haven’t felt before. you can leap in proc your block skills and leap back out felt great. It was really tanky.

WvW

here is where I am at home. 

it was controversial playing virtuoso here. Soo many projectile blocks especial long-lasting ones like war bubbles or scrapper defensefelds mad playing dagger problematic. My squad was again asking me for "illu, Illu? ähh Illu?"(hate being illu bot). I was asked what roll I fill in WvW my answer dps isch maybe a heal build. Btw thx for letting me test!

Don’t get me wrong there were moments of numbers as well😍! Times when you do get your chaosstorm through and you hit 5 targets with your shatter 💖. This is shadowed by the problem that ppl are running past me, that I interrupt myself, that I am standing in a bubble... Fun fact reflects where not so the problem. Also, the sustain in berserker gear was good here my build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PigAgylVwWZtsLmLOuSrxKA-zVRYBRDTM4Sw2B-w

and the numbers copared to top stats.

	DmgØ	Dmg Taken	Highest dmg in a single fight	Ø Boons Stripped	Deaths	Fights
Virtuoso	41296	1136864	140239	11	6	25
Scourge	57596	2312304	213903	37	0	28
Spellbreaker	9088	1837443	29781	61	6	25
Herald	122150	1197482	445271	0	6	29

Rain of swords this skill is ok. at least others had respect not to run through it. Cooldowns are very good.

Sword of decimation in a small scale yes but nearly no effect on bigger blobs because of blocks/ clenses. +100% on downed disabled isn’t cutting it yet or our squad lacked in ranged cc. even with the 100% expertise the immob lasted for ¼ of a second.

A thousand cuts is not cutting 1000 times -.-... call it max 25 cuts. I was surprised that the unlockable, insta cast and the duration had so much impact. Especial on blobs jumping you. Its not easy to see.

Blade renewal and psionic force were not necessary because the blade generation was good, and blink is the better option.

Although I get the design for the healing skill its contributing with your passive effects is not good. Ether signet is soo much better with the blade generation you have.

F1-F2 are great but still problematic with the projectile hate. And the mentioned running behind you

F3 well I like the dmg. I understand the problem with master of fragmentation and the daze and why this would get out of hands quickly. Or would it? It should trigger with 5 blades imo.

F4 despite all the hate around it I got the hang on it and I really think it is awesome. It did synergies so well with the build, the cooldown is great, and it was the only skill in wvw I could reliably use when the blob engages, keeping me alive. It rips boons applies vulnerability because it’s a blade and a shatter. And it triggers psionic repose, which then again heals aoe because I run with illusionary inspiration. It applies aegis for your group. Then you have a 3/5 shatter available… Its sooo much better than distortion.

Phantasmal blades well just no dmg and fury durations are too low especially in wvw where your phantasm are soap bubbles.

Sharping sorrow is the same as bountiful disillusionment only much weaker

 

My overall impression is quite positive sure I am missing the depth and some hits because they miss or get blocked…  Which roll will virtuoso have. I don’t know when it should be a dps then we must be able to hit more. Numbers on hits perse are +-fine. When you want us to be the secondary support, which it currently is for me, well you could buff this as well…. Currently virtuoso is not bad imo but underperforming compared to others.

I think that with virtuoso trades being “so simple” you run into the problems of core Mesmer and get the opportunity to fix them as well. 

Eg. Why the hell do we have 2 staff trades can you please cut the “when cast” out of chaotic transference

 

Keep it up!

 

[Shadoudoragon.2180]

Virtuoso is cool. I like the idea of throwing floating swords at enemies and I think it will do well at giving a more DPS centric specialization for Mesmer. Outside of concept and potential, I need more time with it to see what it can do, as the F2-F4 keys seem to have a different usage than their appearance implies.

[SilentCarnage.2764]

Currently I am bouncing around having to many blades and not enough shatters or not enough blades to cast shatters to keep the new special buff up.

I feel like this class, as the class that should be shattering a lot, needs to have more shatters or more interesting shatters.

 

Overall I feel there are 2 issues:

- As it sits Virtuoso is a very selfish DPS spec with no group help and not high enough damage to support this playstyle. Virtuoso already has a ferocity buff for itself, maybe give it a group buff for ferocity. Something like Revenant's assassins presence. 

 

- Blade generation and shatters don't line up with new buff and they feel lacking.

After putting in some thought I have come up with 3 possible changes I feel can help the blade generation/feel for the class:

 

• Give blade songs ammo

  • This allows the player to use the useful bladesongs more often for their build.

  • If one misses its less of a loss

  • More usages let you keep the new buff up more

•  

• Change bladsongs depending on grandmaster trait

  • Top trait line needs more dodges and blocks

    •  This line feels like a close quarters line and should support that a bit more

    • The current shatters should change to support this with some self buffs like: protection, Maybe F2 can turn into a ground         projectile reflect, F3 can be a ground effect that pulses aegis or regen. Maybe, just throwing stuff out there.

  • Middle trait line does not need F2 or F4 

    • This trait line should focus on long range damage. Really give me a reason to use the 1200 range I have.

    • F2 could be a ground aoe with cripple

    • F4 could be a small group buff or another ground aoe. 

  • Bottom trait line really only wants F2

    •  Give it more confusion or bleed

    • The other F skills don’t apply any damaging conditions

•  

• Change F4 to a form/shroud

  • F4 will put a dagger in your off-hand, similar to BladeSwarn’s new mechanic. This off-hand dagger could have blade generation abilities.

  • This would allow the virtuoso to have blade generation no matter what weapons they choose to use. Not just Illusions 

  • This could also fix the feeling of not having fast enough generation If you could swap into this mode generate a few blades and jump out.

  • Maybe even gives a buff to Shatter cooldowns. Another buff to keep up on yourself.

  • The current F4 can be made into one of the new off-hand dagger skills.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by SilentCarnage.2764

[Belolth.6980]

it felt so good to have a ranged sustainable burst mage class that doesn't feel totally kitten on damage. it's all i've ever wanted... after years of playing, I finally feel like i've found a class that feels right.

[Kanok.3027]

21 minutes ago, Belolth.6980 said:

it felt so good to have a ranged sustainable burst mage class that doesn't feel totally kitten on damage. it's all i've ever wanted... after years of playing, I finally feel like i've found a class that feels right.

This right here. People keep saying it has crappy damage, but it really doesn't. Play it kind of like pChrono and use those shatters quickly. They still do damage.

One complaint I have for the power builds is the lack of more guaranteed defensive options like with Chrono in open world. Shield is recommended if you want protection against a lot of lethal or hard hits, which is amazing, but Virtuoso lacks that, only really having Sword 4 to block. It's good, but the cooldown on it makes me want to cry. This is why having shield on weapon swap was nice. Sadly, that is on Chrono, not base Mesmer, so you can't have that. Mirage has access to more distortion than base Mesmer without really losing as much DPS as power does if you put in more defensive options that take the slots of viable strike damage based skills/weapon skills. Maybe that was the intent, to be a lot more glass cannon, but well, I was hoping for a bit more in that space. Sure, F4 gives you a quick block, but it's not enough, I feel.

Still, so far, I am loving Virt. Now I can switch between Power Chrono and Power Virtuoso and feel pretty content. I know others don't agree with me and that's fine. They are entitled to their opinions, but I personally love the new espec. WAY more than Vindicator...ugh.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Vindicator is so kitten strong I wish virtuoso has even half of what it has, me personally I would rather be a vindicator then a Mirage both with one dodge except one does it better. 

Overall Virtuoso lacks alot of synergy and smooth gameplay unlike Vindicator so gonna drop the Mesmer and probably become a rev main.

[Levetty.1279]

4 hours ago, Kanok.3027 said:

People keep saying it has crappy damage, but it really doesn't.

Except it is and nobody believes your lies.

[Kanok.3027]

5 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Except it is and nobody believes your lies.

Well, believe what you want. I still think it does great in PvE content as I've been able to easily dispatch anything I come across pretty quickly.

I find it amusing how vicious people can be on these forums when you don't agree with the hivemind about something. Lovely. And here I thought Reddit was bad. 😆

Edited December 4, 2021 by Kanok.3027

[Levetty.1279]

52 minutes ago, Kanok.3027 said:

Well, believe what you want. I still think it does great in PvE content as I've been able to easily dispatch anything I come across pretty quickly.

I find it amusing how vicious people can be on these forums when you don't agree with the hivemind about something. Lovely. And here I thought Reddit was bad. 😆

Or they don't like trolls who have never posted on the mesmer forums before coming over here and lying.

[Kanok.3027]

13 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Or they don't like trolls who have never posted on the mesmer forums before coming over here and lying.

Okay, so, coming over here and talking about my experience with a Mesmer spec, even thought I have been playing Mesmer for a LONG time, but never needed to come and talk about it, and saying I like the Virt and what it can do makes me a troll. Funny. Seriously, that is really funny. Gotta love how gated the community is to anyone that doesn't think as they do. As you wish. Bye then.

[Levetty.1279]

30 minutes ago, Kanok.3027 said:

Okay, so, coming over here and talking about my experience with a Mesmer spec, even thought I have been playing Mesmer for a LONG time, but never needed to come and talk about it, and saying I like the Virt and what it can do makes me a troll. Funny. Seriously, that is really funny. Gotta love how gated the community is to anyone that doesn't think as they do. As you wish. Bye then.

Just a coincidence that you finally decide to post on the Mesmer forums just to tell everybody how good Virtuoso is by making stuff up about it.

[Urphen.2857]

2 hours ago, Kanok.3027 said:

Okay, so, coming over here and talking about my experience with a Mesmer spec, even thought I have been playing Mesmer for a LONG time, but never needed to come and talk about it, and saying I like the Virt and what it can do makes me a troll. Funny. Seriously, that is really funny. Gotta love how gated the community is to anyone that doesn't think as they do. As you wish. Bye then.

It's not that you came here to talk about experience, you came here telling all that where disappointed and gave before good feedback what got ignored that they should go play chrono, so in other words you were telling all they should shut up because they don't think like you do 👍

[Simonoly.4352]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but when using Mirror Blade on greatsword as Virtuoso, no clone is created by your target so you no longer benefit from the bounces when cast on a solo target at range. This makes the skill entirely reliant on either being in range of the bounces yourself or only being able to bounce off the pets/minions of a solo target. In theory that's fine because many bounce skills are like this when fighting a solo target, but as none of the other Mesmer specs have to worry about this as a clone is always created with Mirror Blade, this seems like quite a downgrade when choosing to be a Virtuoso.

Perhaps Mirror Blade should be changed to a unique skill for Virtuoso?

 

[Ludovide.1967]

So I avoided playing wvw as virtuoso because everyone said how awful it was, but I tried it out and it's surprisingly not bad. The utility skills, especially rain of swords, are just really good at harassing the enemy at range, same with the dagger's unstable bladestorm ability. If you combine that with the ability to generate blades from bleeding, you can generate all the blades you need just by casting rain of swords or unstable bladestorm into a big zerg of enemies. And that's just really fun to do. It's not amazing, due to the high amount of projectile hate, but I think it's better than people make it out to be. I also think the ability to gain unblockable shatters on blocking is better for PvP than it is for WvW, but it is still a very good trait. But I found the condi traitline to just be more fun to play with, personally.

[Jijimuge.4675]

I wanted to like Virtuoso more than I did.  The concept is OK - instead of fashioning phantasmal energy (or whatever) into self-replicas, why not replicas of weapons?  The whole "psi blades" thing is a common enough trope, so it ought to be workable.

As an aside, I'm not sure why the spec is called "virtuoso" - I don't think that adding musical references to it is useful or thematic.

Sadly, I didn't find virtuoso that much fun compared to mirage and chrono - it seems rather one dimensionally focussed on  damage.  I'm not entirely sure what I did want from the concept in terms of gameplay, but the existing spec doesn't "wow" me, which disappointed me, as mesmer has been my go-to fave for a while - luckily I do enjoy mirage and chrono.  I certainly don't hate virtuoso, but I'm somewhat ambivalent about it.

The art is certainly very sparkly and impressive, although sometimes (looking at you, Rain of Blades and F4 shatter) too intrusive.  The F1 and F2 shatters (and the elite) are, visually, very impressive.

I can see that, if I played with the spec a lot, the animation and sound for the dagger skills could end up grating a little.  The thing that gets me about the animation is how the character does a horizontal slash with the dagger reversed in the hand and this somehow sends psi-blades forward - that didn't gel for me visually - I'd have preferred some animations more linked to standard "dagger-throwing" movements, speaking personally.

Finally, it may be that I never got into the spec fully but, outside of being able to generate a ton of blades, the whole condi side of the traitline never quite worked for me - many of the other existing condi setups rely on clones doing condis along with "sharper images" bleeds from illusions doing some work.  Not to mention that dagger MH seems to have little synergy with a condi playstyle.  On balance, rather than trying to cater for a condi playstyle in this setup, I'd probably have preferred to see some other options, as condi is already (very) well catered for (even dominated) by mirage.

Lastly, I found that having the blades visible when out of combat was a bit intrusive - I'd prefer to not see the blades shown when out of combat.  To me it feels like having one's "blades" out would be rather like walking around with a drawn sword all the time, so I found it a little immersion breaking.

[WhiskeyBlack.8925]

I've been enjoying getting the chance to play virtuoso. So here's my feedback from this beta. Specifically I played it in PvP and in PvE Raids & Strikes. I'm not the best player so this is what I found at a moderate-low skill level in unranked +  semi-exp level in raids.

 

Virtuoso in PvP
I enjoyed playing virtuoso in pvp, it felt a lot of fun to have some ranged burst options. I played a couple of rounds trying out a roaming build but found that I didn't really have a lot of disengage options. Due to the lack of clones it was really easy for the enemy to find me and 1 shot me since you don't have a lot of defence. The lack of distortion or blocks makes it quite easy for people to focus you down at least in comparison to chrono and mirage. 

Suggestions: Extend the block on bladeturn Requiem or shorten its cooldown, Shorten the cooldown on blade renewal, or add more sustain options (also see other comments for issues with reflects)

 

Virtuoso in Raids & Strikes
Condi virtuoso still just doesn't feel satisfying and I really don't think its something this spec needs. We already have great mirage builds for condi, we don't need more and I would much prefer to have a robust power spec in Virtuoso. Other comments here have talked a lot about options for "fixing" the condi build or just for getting rid of it entirely and I agree with the latter. 

 

The main thing I noticed in Virtuoso was that the bladesongs have a cast time. If you've played any other mesmer build this feels really disorienting (especially with all of the bladesongs having different cast times) It feels really punishing to not be able to cast bladesongs while channeling other skills. As a spec built around shattering it doesn't make much sense to me that it's actually worse at shattering than core mesmer. 

Suggestions: Focus on the power dps build instead of trying to make a condi build work, shorten the cooldown on bladesongs, increase their damage or remove the cast time for them in order to make them more rewarding (and less annoying to use).

 

Overall
I have enjoyed getting to play virtuoso. It's currently my favourite of the new specs and I think it has a great potential future in the game. Great job on the animations! 

 

One thing that didn't fit into the pvp or pve feedback was the change to sword 3. I don't know where it was noted that sword 3 was now "Blade Leap" when you spec'd into virtuoso but it was quite the unpleasant surprise when I went to use it the first time and found myself flung forward. I'd suggest either changing the skill icon art or otherwise making it more obvious that this skill has changed. If you can change the name of the skill I think it's wise to also change the icon. It killed me quite a few times before I realised what was yeeting me around.
Suggestion: Change the icon of Blade Leap to make it more obvious it has changed from the Illusionary Leap of core mesmer

[Raven.8156]

Virtuoso Review:

Adding off-hand dagger

My biggest difficulty is finding an off-hand weapon that feels good with the main-hand dagger. Mesmer is in a weird spot, unlike ranger's soulbeast, which already had off-hand core dagger, it was not necessary to use the new main-hand dagger with the elite spec. In fact, the other core ranger weapons really shined with that spec.

 

Mesmer's virtuoso on the other hand, is really centered around the new dagger main-hand and the blade theme carrying throughout the the spec. I really think it is appropriate to add off-hand dagger to the Virtuoso, as was done for the spellbreaker.  Many of the off-hand core Mesmer weapons deal with clones.. which doesn't really feel coherent considering the shift in mechanics that comes with the virtuoso.

 

for the record, I am not a Mesmer player, but I really liked the virtuoso and will play it in the expansion. having the off-hand dagger will really tie this elite spec up nicely, especially thematically.

[Raven.8156]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:23 AM, Lethion.8745 said:

Dagger

I still believe that we sould get off-hand dagger as well. It would make more sense thematically and it might be used to cover lack of mobility in main hand dagger and utility skills.

Yes, I believe this would really tie the spec together nicely. It is a missed opportunity.

 

Please consider Anet :))))

[Raven.8156]

On 9/21/2021 at 1:39 PM, VaileCearo.3819 said:

EDIT:

I forgot to add that I also hope the fine folks at ArenaNet might be able to still go back and add dagger as an offhand option as well for the Virtuoso. I know that's kind of not the precedent set for adding one handed weapons to classes with elite specs however with everything else getting 2 handed weapons and major mechanic re-structures I still stand by the Virtuoso feeling a bit underwhelming. On top of that, the core thematic of the Virtuoso being a dagger wielding mesmer just feels like it needs dagger/dagger to be an option. Not having dagger/dagger as a gearing option for something like the Virtuoso just feels very wrong to me.

Agreed,

not having a dagger off-hand feels bad on this, it would tie the spec together...

[Anthony.8056]

I found virtuoso very easy to play but it got boring very quicky because it was so easy. Elementalist and Mesmer are my mains so I'm a little disappointed at the outcome of both. The visuals are nice but I wanted a longbow on one of the light armor classes. I kind of wish they swapped catalyst and virtuoso in that virtuoso got a little more complex. It would have been nice to have a bard/music class, like in another game that is coming out next year. Also, I know people wanted a clone less espec but I wish they would have given the Mesmer a holograms/projections theme. I know the holosmith uses light holograms and the jade sphere from catalyst is a projection, so why not give the Mesmer hologram versions instead of clones and create a theme around that. 

[pitchBLACK.5479]

Quite honestly, all the changes that were made from the past beta have made this class really fun to play. The skills are fun and the visuals are incredible! It feels like everything is nice and fluid and hits hard where it’s meant to. The one and only thing that I cannot get past, which was part of my feedback from the previous beta is the sound effects… I do not understand why everything sounds as though it’s like a wabbly pool noodle hitting glass underwater… It sounds dumb, but for me it breaks the entire feeling of the class and puts me off playing it.

Just compare it to how impactful and amazing the wells are on the Chronomancer (each tick changes the sound and then the final burst), they sound awesome. Or how thematically right the dodge, jaunt, etc. sound with the mirage.

The one and only sound effect that is good on this class is the auto blade generation.

Please, please ANET change how the Virtuoso’s abilities sound… It sounds so wrong!

[excelsior.2168]

Overview

So I only played Virtuoso in PvE for this beta and the first one. Overall, I do like the feel of Virtuoso. I think it plays well as a straight DPS class and makes mesmer more approachable by not being as complex of mesmer, chrono, and mirage. Now, I love the complexity of the mesmer and all but I do think the comparative simplicity will be welcoming to newer players and veteran players trying out mesmer. 

 

Great job Anet on the creativity and visual affects for this spec! SO beautiful and I can really see the Canthan inspiration with the class!

 

Damage

However, between the past beta and this one I do think the damage was cut down too much for Virtuoso. I used the marauder gear the beta characters get and I noticed a difference. The DPS as it is now felt underwhelming and I would rather use my chrono in PvE meta events with that damage than with what the Virtuoso was putting out. I did hear the Catalyst was hitting 55k DPS on the golem while the Virtuoso at first beta was only hitting 41k dps and during this one hit 39k dps. So, if this is supposed to be a DPS mesmer specialization, make it one. 
 

41k dps video: 

 

39k DPS video: 

Note: I did not create either video

 

Shatters/Bladesongs

The casting time of the shatters felt off for Virtuoso. I am used to the instant cast on the shatters but perhaps reduce the casting time? The play felt slower and a touch off putting. Saying that, might just have to get used to the new mechanic.

 

In regards to shatters, the F4 is shite. The block is too short and the damage dismal. This shatter is replacing our distortion/continuum split and this F4 does not reach the level of either of those shatters. The damage needs to be more at base level, so it actually deters people from getting in our bubble. The block needs to be increased per blade used, the same can be applied to the damage dealth, both damage and block duration being increased by the amount of blades used. The F4 shatter was just not it comparatively. As it is right now, the F4 bladesong is useless in my opinion. 

 

The other F1-F3 skills I thought were fine (again casting time was an issue but it is a new mechanic).

 

Traits

I can't remember all of them to be fair. But, I will say I thought the condi traits were useless. Mesmers already do bleeding through the Duelist line, why have a double up of traits? The Virtuoso condi trait line doesn't offer anything new from what I saw. Any other mesmer build and e-spec can offer more variety in condi builds. The condi trait needs to be removed or massively updated. I prefer removal at this point for traits that interact with the amount of daggers we have, dagger skills, and blade skills/utilities.

 

There was one trait, I forget the name of it, but it was a GM trait that after a successful dodge your shatters are unblockable. I thought this was too many conditions to make shatters work in Virtuoso. One constant I have seen is the amount of Virtuoso's skills are reflectable. This is a problem in WvW, where mesmers in general are not wanted in groups aside from small roaming groups. The Virtuoso can provide some DPS now to organized groups but all things being reflected is an issue. I'm not sure the best way to remedy this. Perhaps if a bladesong is used with all 5 blades, it's unblockable? Or at least not able to be reflected? 

 

I did find the traits uninspiring tbh

 

Summary

Overall great feel to the class and love this take on mesmer.

Damage: Some tweaks to damage should put it in a good place dps wise without going overboard. 

Shatter casting times: Remove casting times or work with flow of them. FOR SURE fix the F4 shatter. it does nothing as it is now. 

Traits: Remove condi line. It does nothing. Overall uninspiring. 

 

 

[scerevisiae.1972]

Overall I like it.

Major issues:

• dagger is kinda weak - dagger #3 moves WAY too slowly and dagger #2 is just a bad/unreliable skill
• shouldn't sword/greatsword skills count as blade skills? currently you're forced to use dagger if you want to run condi

Other issues:

• power damage on Rain of Swords and Sword of Decimation feels too low
• power damage on F4 Bladeturn Requiem feels unreasonably low
• F3 shatter Bladesong Dissonance should be instant - assuming interrupts are the point of this skill
• Elite Thousand Cuts is way too narrow, seems to miss even when it's lined up perfectly
• Don't like having 2 conditional aspects of Twin Blade Restoration - the condi removal should be reliable and then the boos application be conditional 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by scerevisiae.1972

[Silvoshipnos.2089]

The out of combat generation of blades doesn't work while mounted in WvW which makes it a bit inconvenient since you tend to mount after fights to go somewhere else.

 

The generation is also quite slow, taking 50 seconds in total. I would be nice if it would accelerate in some way, like reducing the time between successive blade generations or maybe making it so it generates 1 on the first proc and then 2 on  the next two.

 

It also feels like the casting of the bladesongs is a bit disruptive to the gameplay considering that shatter skills have always been instant casts. Maybe the bladesongs could be made so that they have their own animation and wind up, without the mesmer having to be locked into the cast.