Hey Anet, where the Thief nerfs at?

Real talks, yes they're useless in blobs, but in havoc/small-scale they're the nutz. Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen. No class should have the best defensive abilities in perma-stealth (and the target breaks) and mobility, and the highest spike damage on literally no cooldown.

TL;DR Thief is still too overloaded.

Couldn't agree more. Thief is the class that needs a "balance"patch more than any other. Anet you claimed you totally nerfed all the "power"classes. I guess theif and ranger were the exceptions. Then due to the power nerf you forced us into a condi meta. Run with the blob and spam condis or cure condis. Pure garbage imo! This meta still requires no kind of player skill level and the game still lacks counterbalance. I will also let you in on a secret ANET. NOT everyone wants to run in a blob and spam skills. Some of us actually enjoy roaming and running in small havoc teams where player skill and knowledge of how to play their classes determine the outcome of the encounter.

Nerfs where stolen.

Who knew trying to balance a game mode around so many different aspects could be so difficult. :)

Fact Checked: Wrong. Only Tempests have overloads, and thus are the "overloaded" class.

D:

Except, Thieves cant 100-0 any class anymore (other than maybe Glass Zerker Ele and thief, but the former isnt a real build, the latter is just thief killing thief, which is fine), stealth is terrible at defensive play, and thieves defensive capabilities are low. Theyre good at running away. Not good at surviving. Get rid of the permastealth thing (its not broken, it never was, but boy is it stupid and shouldnt exist), but otherwise? Soulbeast, Warrior, even FB are still better roaming specs.

@jpsssss.7530 said:Real talks, yes they're useless in blobs, but in havoc/small-scale they're the nutz. Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen. No class should have the best defensive abilities in perma-stealth (and the target breaks) and mobility, and the highest spike damage on literally no cooldown.

TL;DR Thief is still too overloaded.

You can make a thief and have almost all of those features in one build if you want, most builds have some generic aspect of them scattered around as consequence, and you'll probably be useless. My build still packs a lot of boon steal, stuns, pulls, etc even after that patch because other classes actually have some real shit instead of do or die gimmicks. Look at your build and combat log.

@jpsssss.7530 said:Real talks, yes they're useless in blobs, but in havoc/small-scale they're the nutz. Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen. No class should have the best defensive abilities in perma-stealth (and the target breaks) and mobility, and the highest spike damage on literally no cooldown.

TL;DR Thief is still too overloaded.

I'm not actually convinced theif can 100-0 another class post patch besides thief if the other guy is properly built (ie not zerker), brings any sort of stunbreak or invuln and plays with a level of awareness greater than a mouldy sock, but playing along with the argument; if a thief can one shot a class before they can react post patch, it would absolutely require assassin's signet, which has a cool down. Soooo, at least part of your post is exaggerated.

The paper is complaining that the scissors are too sharp while the rock laughs.

TL;DR: Stop wearing paper armor.

Top kek. People assuming I have paper armor. My lowest is 2600-ish. Cool a thief cant 100 to 0 me, but i'm at like a quarter health or less before i can react to anything so to quote The Rock, "it it it it doesn't matter". And even then y'all are missing the fact that thief still has a crapton of mobility stealth while still having its insane damage. There is no rock paper scissors in this. That implies there's reasonable counter play. When every class has a reliable AOE reveal on a reasonable cooldown, and dead-eye cant remove revealed status, then you can MAYBE start talking about counter play.

@"jpsssss.7530" said:Top kek. People assuming I have paper armor. My lowest is 2600-ish. Cool a thief cant 100 to 0 me, but i'm at like a quarter health or less before i can react to anything so to quote The Rock, "it it it it doesn't matter". And even then y'all are missing the fact that thief still has a crapton of mobility stealth while still having its insane damage. There is no rock paper scissors in this. That implies there's reasonable counter play. When every class has a reliable AOE reveal on a reasonable cooldown, and dead-eye cant remove revealed status, then you can MAYBE start talking about counter play.

If you have 2600 armour, youre not even going to be half-health when a thief does his burst before you can react. Backstab does not hit that hard. And no, were not missing that "fact", because its not true. Thief doesnt have "insane" damage, their damage is on the lower end. They have a decent amount of mobility, but so does Warrior (moreso in WvW even). And stealth is only good out of combat (which yeah, that should be hit). In-combat its useless. And AoE reveal and Shadow Meld are about in-combat. If you struggle with in-combat stealth, here are some tips: Throw condi fields over their shadow fields, chuck AoEs at where they enter stealth, track them with melee cleave. Basically, abuse the fact that stealth lets you get in free damage without any counterattack.

@jpsssss.7530 said:Cool a thief cant 100 to 0 me, but i'm at like a quarter health or less before i can react to anything...snip

@jpsssss.7530 said:Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen.

Either you lied or you've just proven that rock beats scissors.

Thanks for playing.

Rangers are the other class that need a nerf. Seriously how many times are you going to let a ranger immobile someone in a fight and then attempt to burst them down. I got in a small scale fight the other day and managed to clear immobile 3 times(as I run 3 condi clears) immediately followed by longbow 2 (ya i know it's longbow 2 by the damage output,the graphics, and the fact I played a ranger in wvw for 2 years) and still got immobilized 3 more times. I countered the longbow damage with a reflect but six immobilizes in 1 fight..ridiculous! ANET while you may have made some improvements to other classes, to balance the damage, how did these 2 classes simply go untouched? This game has been out now for 7 years and yet it still lacks balance and counter play like so many other MMOs have. Dear ANET..."C'MON MAN!" get it right already. Instead of worrying about developing a new expansion why don't you fix the things that are broken already first?

@"Bruticus Fatalfury.3486" said:Rangers are the other class that need a nerf. Seriously how many times are you going to let a ranger immobile someone in a fight and then attempt to burst them down. I got in a small scale fight the other day and managed to clear immobile 3 times(as I run 3 condi clears) immediately followed by longbow 2 (ya i know it's longbow 2 by the damage output,the graphics, and the fact I played a ranger in wvw for 2 years) and still got immobilized 3 more times. I countered the longbow damage with a reflect but six immobilizes in 1 fight..ridiculous! ANET while you may have made some improvements to other classes, to balance the damage, how did these 2 classes simply go untouched? This game has been out now for 7 years and yet it still lacks balance and counter play like so many other MMOs have. Dear ANET..."C'MON MAN!" get it right already. Instead of worrying about developing a new expansion why don't you fix the things that are broken already first?

You refusing to build and learn to counter that ranger isn't Anet's fault.

@jpsssss.7530 said:Real talks, yes they're useless in blobs, but in havoc/small-scale they're the nutz. Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen. No class should have the best defensive abilities in perma-stealth (and the target breaks) and mobility, and the highest spike damage on literally no cooldown.

TL;DR Thief is still too overloaded.

I haven't checked WvW in months, so if you base your complaints on that, sure... however, if you mean actual PvP where there are balanced amulets and traits, than no.Would be nice if you could specify. We have skillsplits for a reason.

There was no rework in the patch. Of course thief is still the same. It is extremely favored in some fights and extremely unfavored in other fights. Anyway it can run away from every fight. It has always been like this.

What changes from time to time are the tools you need to be favored against a thief. Sometimes it's reflects. Sometimes it's instant cc. Sometimes it's range.

The class mechanic itself in terms of one-dimensionality is the worst in the game right after scourge - but scourge is at least not a whole class, but just an elite spec.

@kash.9213 said:

@"Bruticus Fatalfury.3486" said:Rangers are the other class that need a nerf. Seriously how many times are you going to let a ranger immobile someone in a fight and then attempt to burst them down. I got in a small scale fight the other day and managed to clear immobile 3 times(as I run 3 condi clears) immediately followed by longbow 2 (ya i know it's longbow 2 by the damage output,the graphics, and the fact I played a ranger in wvw for 2 years) and still got immobilized 3 more times. I countered the longbow damage with a reflect but six immobilizes in 1 fight..ridiculous! ANET while you may have made some improvements to other classes, to balance the damage, how did these 2 classes simply go untouched? This game has been out now for 7 years and yet it still lacks balance and counter play like so many other MMOs have. Dear ANET..."C'MON MAN!" get it right already. Instead of worrying about developing a new expansion why don't you fix the things that are broken already first?

You have to admit he has a great account name for rage quitting tho.

you mean where is the buffs?

@UNOwen.7132 said:Except, Thieves cant 100-0 any class anymore (other than maybe Glass Zerker Ele and thief, but the former isnt a real build, the latter is just thief killing thief, which is fine), stealth is terrible at defensive play, and thieves defensive capabilities are low. Theyre good at running away. Not good at surviving. Get rid of the permastealth thing (its not broken, it never was, but boy is it stupid and shouldnt exist), but otherwise? Soulbeast, Warrior, even FB are still better roaming specs.

Low defensive capabilities lmao. Spam blind, spam stealth and evade. Thief needs nerfs, they need to lose access to one of these at the same time. DE is one of the safest, dumbest builds right now, and d/p could use some tone down too in the blind spam department.

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Except, Thieves cant 100-0

any

class anymore (other than maybe Glass Zerker Ele and thief, but the former isnt a real build, the latter is just thief killing thief, which is fine), stealth is terrible at defensive play, and thieves defensive capabilities are low. Theyre good at running away. Not good at surviving. Get rid of the permastealth thing (its not broken, it never was, but boy is it stupid and shouldnt exist), but otherwise? Soulbeast, Warrior, even FB are still better roaming specs.

Blinds are fine, they get expensive to use unless you trait for Cloaked in Shadow which I might be the only idiot who does. I think Silent Scope should have something else going on instead of Stealth on Dodge Roll though, that's the thing that ties a possible opener together that can be a little too overbearing due to how fast it can happen (I like that precision but that dodge stealth can get me killed or make me miss an opportunity, wish there was something else there but I know other people like it) . The problem is though, Initiative is tighter and I feel the crunch playing with Premed instead and trying to stealth off of Snipers Cover like I used to so Silent Scope is kind of needed which sucks. All in all though, your problem thief is more of an annoyance unless they're picking off your non alert glass who don't keep up very well.

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Except, Thieves cant 100-0

any

class anymore (other than maybe Glass Zerker Ele and thief, but the former isnt a real build, the latter is just thief killing thief, which is fine), stealth is terrible at defensive play, and thieves defensive capabilities are low. Theyre good at running away. Not good at surviving. Get rid of the permastealth thing (its not broken, it never was, but boy is it stupid and shouldnt exist), but otherwise? Soulbeast, Warrior, even FB are still better roaming specs.

First of all "spam" blind. The cheapest access thief has to blind is Shadowshot. You get 3 blinds, and then you have to wait for over 8 seconds for the next one. Dunno about you, but I dont call that "spam", or even particularly good for defense. "Spam stealth" stealth is even less accessible, and more importantly, terrible for defense. If you stealth up against me, I will abuse that and hit you for tons of free damage. "Spam Evade", first of all, a thief that stealths up a lot has only 2 evades other than his basic dodge. Withdraw, and Daggertstorm. Thats even further from "spamming". Second, even the builds that evade a lot, still dont even come close to what Weaver can do survivability-wise.

Hah, not even close. DE is extremely unsafe. There is a reason its a joke in 2v2, and a +1 build that runs away as soon as someone turns on them in 5v5 (where its also kind of a joke, but I digress). And as for blind "spam", see above.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Except, Thieves cant 100-0

any

class anymore (other than maybe Glass Zerker Ele and thief, but the former isnt a real build, the latter is just thief killing thief, which is fine), stealth is terrible at defensive play, and thieves defensive capabilities are low. Theyre good at running away. Not good at surviving. Get rid of the permastealth thing (its not broken, it never was, but boy is it stupid and shouldnt exist), but otherwise? Soulbeast, Warrior, even FB are still better roaming specs.

Stealth is terrible for defense and aggro break, you heard it here first, folks. Most thief builds have access to near perma-vigor, so there goes your point about "MUH 2 DODGES". Daggerstorm is nearly 3 seconds of continuous evade on top of free damage and ally support.

2nd off, you don't need defensive capability at the time you're applying as much pressure as a d/p thief with Assassin's Signet and all the trait damage modifiers and venoms active. The rest of your post regarding DE is just biased rambling regarding build you probably can't play yourself, hence you consider it 'meme'.

It's a great example of a low-risk, high reward build that I immensely detest about thief. Funnily enough, I thought necro mains were the most biased bunch here.

@jpsssss.7530 said:Real talks, yes they're useless in blobs, but in havoc/small-scale they're the nutz. Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen. No class should have the best defensive abilities in perma-stealth (and the target breaks) and mobility, and the highest spike damage on literally no cooldown.

TL;DR Thief is still too overloaded.

do you even play thief?i mean i kind of quit playing thief cus pointless to play thief. ur dmg is low ur sustain is low everything is low and people poo condi on you like hell..

so i went to play another shit class.. core ele with d/d my god im having a blast (still a crap class compare to others) the dmg is good the sustain is WAY better i can reset fights when i want i have shit load of boon up time i have everything..

thief isnt as u describe im not saying thief is horrible now but for sure its not 100 to 0 class with everything on their side..i have no problem fighting thiefs on my core ele, maybe ur problem is that u dont know what thief is capable of? so you dont know how to counter?i mean i have had same problem with mesmers i never understood why mesmer was scared of thief since they ran over me constantly..then i tried playing mesmer (yes i sucked at it) but then i realised a little bit how mesmer rolls and now i no longer get steam rolled by mesmers..

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Except, Thieves cant 100-0

any

class anymore (other than maybe Glass Zerker Ele and thief, but the former isnt a real build, the latter is just thief killing thief, which is fine), stealth is terrible at defensive play, and thieves defensive capabilities are low. Theyre good at running away. Not good at surviving. Get rid of the permastealth thing (its not broken, it never was, but boy is it stupid and shouldnt exist), but otherwise? Soulbeast, Warrior, even FB are still better roaming specs.

Yup, it is terrible. Unless your opponent is a ranged character with no channeled attacks or AoEs (which narrows the list down to .... uhhh, Dragonhunter maybe?), stealth is just a way to let your opponent get in huge amounts of free damage while you cant even fight back. Sure, if you survive you can run away, but then you wasted resources in order to do something you couldve just swapped to shortbow and got out that way without taking free damage. As for Vigor, the only stealth build, D/P thief, only has one source of vigor, bountiful theft. Even ignoring any boon rip, thats still not even nearly "perma-vigor". And yeah, Daggerstorm is good. But its got one hell of a long cooldown.

2nd off, you don't need defensive capability at the time you're applying as much pressure as a d/p thief with Assassin's Signet and all the trait damage modifiers and venoms active. The rest of your post regarding DE is just biased rambling regarding build you probably can't play yourself, hence you consider it 'meme'.

Of course you do. D/P thiefs pressure is not so high that an opponent cant just turn around and kill you. You hit your backstab for at most 9k (usually 5k-7k), and the opponent isnt even half-health. Sure, if theyre +1ing, thats a different story, but if youre +1ing, it doesnt really matter what defenses you have, its not an even fight. And no, I know how to play DE (its hardly difficult). I just also know that the build, even with it losing less damage than everyone else, is incredibly bad in sPvP.

It's a great example of a low-risk, high reward build that I immensely detest about thief. Funnily enough, I thought necro mains were the most biased bunch here.

Ironically, its the polar opposite of what you describe. Its a high-risk, low reward build. Easily shut down and stopped, whether its true projectile destruction/reflect, mobile burst builds like Rev, D/P thief or even core Mesmer, ranged characters with incredibly high damage channeled skills like Axe Necros and Rangers, or ranged characters with large amounts of AoEs, like Core Nade Engineer, Scourge, some versions of Ele/Tempest. And all of that, for what? Less damage than the aforementioned Ranger does?

Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.