Why this meta is not fun — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home PVP

Why this meta is not fun

Happy Yes.1453Happy Yes.1453 Member ✭✭✭

Any team in a ranked game has 1 to 4 (depending on the rating) players with one purpose: being a tanky healthbar on a node and spamming aoe. They have no mechanical skills, they have no knowledge of the meta and don't know how to rotate. They just run in a straight line to a random node and faceroll their keyboard on that node.

The worst thing about this: these people are very often the deciding factor in the game. These players end up with some average gold rating regardless of any skill or knowledge. Because of the low population, these players will also show up in high rated games. If they tank a capped node, they can sometimes add a lot of value to your team. This is certainly the case if one of the enemy tanky players decides to 1v1 that. A tanky player 1v1ing on an enemy capped node, suddenly has no value and becomes almost uncarryable.

Every team in ranked has this type of braindead players and the completely random interactions between them almost always decide the outcome of the game.

<1

Comments

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think u complained about me bunkering a node too. Not gold rated plat2 Eu and plat3 + up on NA

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stealth
    Bunkers
    too much CC
    too many conditions

    There are many reasons why PvP is not fun.

    But not every game has bunkers.

  • @Fueki.4753 said:
    Stealth
    Bunkers
    too much CC
    too many conditions

    There are many reasons why PvP is not fun.

    But not every game has bunkers.

    Stealth, bunkers, CC, and conditions make this game fun IMO. Otherwise, it'd just be an FPS without a scope.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Happy Yes.1453 said:
    A tanky player 1v1ing on an enemy capped node, suddenly has no value and becomes almost uncarryable.

    Actually a quick +1 with a mobile class can set up your teammate up to impact the game hugely better. Pretty carryable.

    This is assuming your teammate isn't instantly dead on the node tanking every form of damage the enemy is using while also contributing zero damage.

    The OP is pretty right, bunkers are an issue, and have been an issue since 1.0. Anet has done so much to nerf bunkers, especially with amulet removals, but they are still far too effective for ZERO mechanical skill or game knowledge required.

    However, right now, the biggest issue with bunkers is the fact they can mash all their AOE on a node and make it impossible to fight back unless you are an above average player and can predict their AOE, avoid their AOE, and know exactly what their class is capable of. Meanwhile they don't need to know or do anything besides tunnel vision the node spamming AOE - the issue is the effort required to play vs the effort required to beat. You need to be too much of a better player to beat someone spamming AOE on a node with 0 clue how your class works.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm really bored in PvP, I find nothing but bunkers with zero mechanical skill, 0 map awareness, and just have to play "avoid pvp" in a pvp match anytime there's unkillable bunkers in the game. It's very boring.

    PvP shouldn't consist of me spending 90%+ of matches actively AVOIDING pvp.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Bunker + AOE + CC is the meta. Plus a decapper +1. This is what happens when you significantly reduce damage output and reduce the game speed. The game turns into an AOE slug fest.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2020

    @Coeruleum.9164 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Stealth
    Bunkers
    too much CC
    too many conditions

    There are many reasons why PvP is not fun.

    But not every game has bunkers.

    Stealth, bunkers, CC, and conditions make this game fun IMO. Otherwise, it'd just be an FPS without a scope.

    PvP should be about interactions between players.
    Stealth and the current CC situation, which allows for permanent stunlocks, take one player out of the equation, there for actively go against what PvP should be.
    Bunkers hardly take any damage (unless you are the optimal counter for them), so they make it pointless to try and interact with them, causing them to go against what PvP should be.
    And conditions are just bad by design. If Power damage needs three stats to work and has to go through defence, why is condition damage allowed to work with just two stats (and sometimes even just one stat) and ignore defences?

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2020

    Nothing stunlocks in PvP besides tempest shock aura in team fights.

    Agreed I don't interact with bunkers, I literally outrotate and avoid them which is...actively avoiding PvP in a PvP game mode and contradicts the entire purpose of what I'm doing. I'm there to PvP, but I'm avoiding it?!?!

    Condition dmg outside of burn and condi rangers/condi thieves randomly globalling you isn't an issue at least..but condition damage is silly design, yeah.

    Stealth you also do not interact with and is the most overpowered stealth I've ever seen in a PvP game and I played WC3 DOTA which had Rikimaru, lol.

  • I completely agree, bring back easy kills and Courtyard.
    Ow wait... I was going 500-0 in Courtyard with a tanky torch guardian XD

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    I find the meta better than it has been in a couple patches ago. But I agree it's not great.
    Warriors are trash, mesmers are kinda bad but still annoying, necro/reaper/tempest/thieves are rly strong, holo is on another level :)
    core symbol guardian is too strong for the effort, as well as previous bunker rev builds

    would love to play a game where the company actually does something instead of earning money from gemstore and that's it

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hhmm, ive seen plenty high plat players use bunker builds, they abuse gold players 1v3 their home while leaving the map 4v2 for their team and when they almostdying their team rotate and save their kitten

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Im in it for the fights themselves (hence why I do unranked). I mean if I can hold a node and get fights come to me, all the better

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    CLOK Commander and all around nice bro

  • @Dante.1508 said:
    As a PvE customer Meta is one of my most hated things in an mmorpg.. Partially why i avoid pvp, wvw Raids even etc, because i play for choices.. PvP is so shoe horned into meta you are literally forced to play certain builds or not play at all.. Nothing else is ok..

    I kinda equate meta to a very long hallway with no doors and something behind you pushing you forward, playing a game like that is just not fun at all for me.

    Except "meta" is in no way a uniform concept. What works in gold 1 does not necessarily work in plat 2. It also depends a lot on group comp. If everyone else in a game is running random builds, there's no guarantee your meta build will dominate them. Often the meta is defined by what can counter your build and there exist hard counters to current meta builds that don't typically see play because they are not particularly effective in the overall meta.

    There is a ton of room to play the way you want to play, particularly if you aren't playing at the highest levels.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Happy Yes.1453 said:
    A tanky player 1v1ing on an enemy capped node, suddenly has no value and becomes almost uncarryable.

    Actually a quick +1 with a mobile class can set up your teammate up to impact the game hugely better. Pretty carryable.

    OH yeah super fun, an mmo where you have to wait for a friend to aid you just to win a freaking 1v1, which is no longer considered a 1v1.
    It gets specially fun and interactive when your opponent has enough sustain to outrun you and your ganking friend so nobody dies, yay anet! So much fun, combat with no consequences.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    As a PvE customer Meta is one of my most hated things in an mmorpg.. Partially why i avoid pvp, wvw Raids even etc, because i play for choices.. PvP is so shoe horned into meta you are literally forced to play certain builds or not play at all.. Nothing else is ok..

    I kinda equate meta to a very long hallway with no doors and something behind you pushing you forward, playing a game like that is just not fun at all for me.

    Except "meta" is in no way a uniform concept. What works in gold 1 does not necessarily work in plat 2. It also depends a lot on group comp. If everyone else in a game is running random builds, there's no guarantee your meta build will dominate them. Often the meta is defined by what can counter your build and there exist hard counters to current meta builds that don't typically see play because they are not particularly effective in the overall meta.

    There is a ton of room to play the way you want to play, particularly if you aren't playing at the highest levels.

    In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    As a PvE customer Meta is one of my most hated things in an mmorpg.. Partially why i avoid pvp, wvw Raids even etc, because i play for choices.. PvP is so shoe horned into meta you are literally forced to play certain builds or not play at all.. Nothing else is ok..

    I kinda equate meta to a very long hallway with no doors and something behind you pushing you forward, playing a game like that is just not fun at all for me.

    I think you're getting confused by jargon.

    The "metagame" is all the knowledge and decision-making that goes on outside the scope of a match. In a game with a "deck-building" aspect (like character builds in GW2), it's about what kinds of tools you can expect your team mates and opponents to have at their disposable, the strengths and weaknesses of the strategy they've selected before going into a match. Choices are what produce the metagame in the first place.

    The metagame will always exist regardless of how much people gravitate towards established popular builds vs. rogue builds (that's why we talk about narrow vs. diverse meta, for example). It is, quite simply, the wider environment of play that comes about from the sum of all of our choices.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Happy Yes.1453 said:
    A tanky player 1v1ing on an enemy capped node, suddenly has no value and becomes almost uncarryable.

    Actually a quick +1 with a mobile class can set up your teammate up to impact the game hugely better. Pretty carryable.

    OH yeah super fun, an mmo where you have to wait for a friend to aid you just to win a freaking 1v1, which is no longer considered a 1v1.
    It gets specially fun and interactive when your opponent has enough sustain to outrun you and your ganking friend so nobody dies, yay anet! So much fun, combat with no consequences.

    ... It's capture points. The goal of the game mode is the capture points. The only reason the 1v1 is happening in the first place is because teams are splitting to try to better grab the capture points.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @kraai.7265 said:

    In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

    Eh. I doubt, with his mindset and approach, summit would have stuck around even in a different meta. I just don't think he likes the genre in general, and GW2 in particular (which is perfectly fine, they're not for everyone). His complaints amounted to "why can't my halfassedly built rifle warrior contest points?!?!", which is like someone who brings their rusted out station wagon to a drag race and complains that they can't win. If he cared at all about doing GW2 pvp, he'd at least learn a better warrior build, or figure out some other way to handle the aoes. I, for one, found it highly embarrassing how hyped the community got about some streamer who really doesn't care for our type of game. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stick around, at least to me.

    As for the aoe meta, I'm not a fan myself, but that's also why I only do unranked. There are still plenty of circles there, but at least it's less dominated by the same small number of builds.

    Also, skill still matters. I could blanket the node in aoe, and a skilled player like @Chaith.8256 could still outplay me on side nodes in places like the Eternal Coliseum or Niflhel. Well, at least when he's not playing some meme juggernaut scrapper build lol. The low damage meta makes it significantly harder for that to happen that it used to, but I've seen some higher ranked names in my unranked matches significantly outplay the faceroll builds, when the latter are being played by weak meta slave players.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

    Eh. I doubt, with his mindset and approach, summit would have stuck around even in a different meta. I just don't think he likes the genre in general, and GW2 in particular (which is perfectly fine, they're not for everyone). His complaints amounted to "why can't my halfassedly built rifle warrior contest points?!?!", which is like someone who brings their rusted out station wagon to a drag race and complains that they can't win. If he cared at all about doing GW2 pvp, he'd at least learn a better warrior build, or figure out some other way to handle the aoes. I, for one, found it highly embarrassing how hyped the community got about some streamer who really doesn't care for our type of game. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stick around, at least to me.

    As for the aoe meta, I'm not a fan myself, but that's also why I only do unranked. There are still plenty of circles there, but at least it's less dominated by the same small number of builds.

    Dude, why? What steers gw2 players to keep making excuses to defend this game? It's so hard to accept our beloved game is trashed?
    1. If summit doesn't like mmorpg, why is he trying out absolutely every one out there? And why is he still actively playing Elder scrolls online on off stream hours? And even pvping there?
    2. Yes at first he was playing a meme roleplay build, and just having fun, that brief time playing on low tier motivated him to activate expansions, claim spellbreaker builds, and try to get as close as meta as possible without quiting the class he enjoyed to just join the braindead aoe spam meta train. He even watched the hole teapot video about combat basics on stream to learn what he was doing wrong.
    3. As soon as he fought silver or gold players using those stupid builds he quitted the game, before that he was having a blast, and he actually stated that all the passive interactions between aoe's, unfair or cheesy passives, break out of jail unnecessary skills (holo's specially) and the fact that everyone he met was using either a perma stealth build or an inmortal bunker build forced him to quit the game.

    And I know that not only because he said it himself (he was even starting to doubt about quitting ESO to play gw2)but because when he came back and I saw the low tier pvp matches, I was encouraged to go back and try out this "balance patch" everyone was talking about, the only difference is my character always landed in plat 2, so I couldn't even enjoy that unranked phase were people play just for fun.
    I got in, played like no more than 5 matches, encountered nothing more than perma stealth thieves, condi spammers, bunker spammers, went to wvw, every one using the most cheesy stupid risk free build, the ones that let you just run away every single time you kitten up something, and uninstalled again.

    We have to face it, the game forces you to make a choice, die in silver playing what you enjoy, or join the freaking braindead train grab a meta bunk spammer build and hit your keyboard with your face as hard as you can every single match while staying on a node basically botting...

    EDIT1: well.. i was actually that bored, here watch this video, he litterally complains about endless aoes on the first 5 seconds...

    EDIT2: You said it yourself, if skill mattered then chaith would be able to kill you with a scrapper build, yet that's not the case, unless he runs holo meta build, ofc you need to know how to press buttons and move to still be effective on a meta build, but it would be insane to argue that today's meta builds are harder to master than the ones we got in last expansion or even core gw2, the skill cap is insanely lower, and on equal skill level builds define every single fight.

  • @kraai.7265 said:

    Dude, why? What steers gw2 players to keep making excuses to defend this game? It's so hard to accept our beloved game is trashed?

    I'll refrain from giving a point-by-point rebuttal, because I actually agree that the current meta is not fun, and I don't want to contribute to the impression that I like it. I just want to note that you seemed to miss my point - I'm not saying that aoe spam on nodes is fun, but I'm saying that summit's engagement with spvp isn't a good criticism of it.

    And yes, I am aware he watched Teapot's video. I sub to Teapot but missed it when it first dropped, so I ended up watching it through the "summit reacts to Teapot" version. He was dismissive of the importance of stacking boons (just assumed that getting 25 might was, for practical purposes, unattainable), railed at needing to possibly add a keybind for about face, and many other basic things that you should care about before you assessment of GW2 spvp should be taken seriously. I just don't think he cares for the depth of consideration you need to win fights in an mmo setting (which is again, perfectly fine), so his dissatisfaction with spvp means nothing to me.

    But again, I feel like saying much more will give the impression that I'm defending the current meta, which I am not. I used to play GW2 almost exclusively, but lately I've been in BDO about 90% of my game time and only pop in for spvp dailies and some light gold farming on GW2. I consider the source of the current problem the severe damage reductions from the February megapatch. Even at the height of scourge madness at PoF launch, I could deal with a scourge from a safe mid- or long-range because it was possible to apply enough pressure to scare one into making mistakes that I could capitalize on. Now, it's much more difficult for a plat 1/2 grade player like myself to unseat even a half-awake aoe bunker fast enough to make the fight worth it. This is what I also hated about pre-nerf side bunker weaver - it could be fought against, but it was often smarter to just rotate out.

    So I agree that it is bad design to have a meta where the right answer is to not fight something at all. I just disagree that anyone should care about how summit felt about GW2 spvp.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @kraai.7265 said:
    You said it yourself, if skill mattered then chaith would be able to kill you with a scrapper build, yet that's not the case, unless he runs holo meta build, ofc you need to >know how to press buttons and move to still be effective on a meta build, but it would be insane to argue that today's meta builds are harder to master than the ones we >got in last expansion or even core gw2, the skill cap is insanely lower, and on equal skill level builds define every single fight.

    The average skill caps of builds has not changed much, so no, it's not insane to say that. Seems that way because in core GW2 people didn't have years of game knowledge about how to create metas. Reaching skill cap on most classes entails the exact same thing it does now as it did in 2015, with the exception of Thief builds, which definitely are now all forced into lower risk/reward. There's always been a variety of ranges in skill caps between builds. Spirit Ranger meta, Turret Engineer meta, bunker Chrono meta, tank druid/scrapper side node meta, throughout the eras there has been medium to low skill cap builds in the spotlight from time to time. In equal skill, builds define every single fight? Yes, of course, it's not pong here, if equal skill, of course the builds will factor in - a completely overlooked skill here is knowing your matchups and for example, not take a fight against equally skilled players with a build that has lethal on you.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    Bunkering and node domination in general is just the most unsatisfying way to win or lose.

    It stinks to the high heavens of spoilt cheese.

    Thief rotations are developed to counter this Bunkering strategy, which creates another form of dissatisfaction where Thieves basically run laps all match.

    Any other build far and few between?
    Decent if pulled off and played expertly.
    And if not?
    A huge burden.

    Gone are the days where build variety is one of the charms of this game.

    I used to enjoy theory crafting quirky builds to play with, but these days I find myself NEEDING to ensure my build follows a checkbox list (Enough Health, couple of cleanse, 2 Stunbreaks, enough boon generation etc.) and I HATE IT.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    I'm really bored in PvP, I find nothing but bunkers with zero mechanical skill, 0 map awareness, and just have to play "avoid pvp" in a pvp match anytime there's unkillable bunkers in the game. It's very boring.

    PvP shouldn't consist of me spending 90%+ of matches actively AVOIDING pvp.

    more so because of the low population and most decent pvp player stopped playing, i haven't found a decent match during a single weekday for 2 weeks straight.
    this season start you can already see the decrease in population.3 days since season start and top 250 was still 1200

    i find the current meta is ok, but just people stopped playing and all you get is new players and cheesy builds
    plat games meta is quiet enjoyable only if you actually get matched to a plat game for like once in 3 days.

    warrior has been unplayable in pvp
    for 6 months till now

    good job balance team

  • Koensol.5860Koensol.5860 Member ✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

    Eh. I doubt, with his mindset and approach, summit would have stuck around even in a different meta. I just don't think he likes the genre in general, and GW2 in particular (which is perfectly fine, they're not for everyone). His complaints amounted to "why can't my halfassedly built rifle warrior contest points?!?!", which is like someone who brings their rusted out station wagon to a drag race and complains that they can't win. If he cared at all about doing GW2 pvp, he'd at least learn a better warrior build, or figure out some other way to handle the aoes. I, for one, found it highly embarrassing how hyped the community got about some streamer who really doesn't care for our type of game. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stick around, at least to me.

    As for the aoe meta, I'm not a fan myself, but that's also why I only do unranked. There are still plenty of circles there, but at least it's less dominated by the same small number of builds.

    Dude, why? What steers gw2 players to keep making excuses to defend this game? It's so hard to accept our beloved game is trashed?
    1. If summit doesn't like mmorpg, why is he trying out absolutely every one out there? And why is he still actively playing Elder scrolls online on off stream hours? And even pvping there?
    2. Yes at first he was playing a meme roleplay build, and just having fun, that brief time playing on low tier motivated him to activate expansions, claim spellbreaker builds, and try to get as close as meta as possible without quiting the class he enjoyed to just join the braindead aoe spam meta train. He even watched the hole teapot video about combat basics on stream to learn what he was doing wrong.
    3. As soon as he fought silver or gold players using those stupid builds he quitted the game, before that he was having a blast, and he actually stated that all the passive interactions between aoe's, unfair or cheesy passives, break out of jail unnecessary skills (holo's specially) and the fact that everyone he met was using either a perma stealth build or an inmortal bunker build forced him to quit the game.

    And I know that not only because he said it himself (he was even starting to doubt about quitting ESO to play gw2)but because when he came back and I saw the low tier pvp matches, I was encouraged to go back and try out this "balance patch" everyone was talking about, the only difference is my character always landed in plat 2, so I couldn't even enjoy that unranked phase were people play just for fun.
    I got in, played like no more than 5 matches, encountered nothing more than perma stealth thieves, condi spammers, bunker spammers, went to wvw, every one using the most cheesy stupid risk free build, the ones that let you just run away every single time you kitten up something, and uninstalled again.

    We have to face it, the game forces you to make a choice, die in silver playing what you enjoy, or join the freaking braindead train grab a meta bunk spammer build and hit your keyboard with your face as hard as you can every single match while staying on a node basically botting...

    EDIT1: well.. i was actually that bored, here watch this video, he litterally complains about endless aoes on the first 5 seconds...

    EDIT2: You said it yourself, if skill mattered then chaith would be able to kill you with a scrapper build, yet that's not the case, unless he runs holo meta build, ofc you need to know how to press buttons and move to still be effective on a meta build, but it would be insane to argue that today's meta builds are harder to master than the ones we got in last expansion or even core gw2, the skill cap is insanely lower, and on equal skill level builds define every single fight.

    Dude, summit is a total cringelord when it comes to providing criticism. I wouldn't take anything he says as valid. I came to gw2 from ESO (cuz trash game) and he QQ'ed that game as well, because he couldn't git gud and 1vx people like those of us who were playing the game for years. His last video was just whining, whining and more whining about the game, while he was running into 4v1 and complaining why he died so easily. Literally what he said: "untill someone tells me how it is possible this guy is doing massive damage while mitigating all my damage, I'm calling bs". It's just the typical forumtard/zergling mantra and shows his mentality of "If I can't do it, it is impossible". He is the kind of guy that asks for a youtubers build, and expects to be good within a week. Of course he doesn't, but blames almost every failure on the game in stead of looking at his own mistakes. He is also extremely presumptuous about game mechanics and disregards things that people tell him just because he thinks he knows better. He expects instant gratification and thats just not how mmo's usually work.

    Also, BIG LOL at the people calling gw2 trash. Do yourself a favor and visit ESO. You will come back here crying in a heartbeat, feeling stupid about what you said.

  • @Yasai.3549 said:
    Bunkering and node domination in general is just the most unsatisfying way to win or lose.

    It stinks to the high heavens of spoilt cheese.

    Thief rotations are developed to counter this Bunkering strategy, which creates another form of dissatisfaction where Thieves basically run laps all match.

    Any other build far and few between?
    Decent if pulled off and played expertly.
    And if not?
    A huge burden.

    Gone are the days where build variety is one of the charms of this game.

    I used to enjoy theory crafting quirky builds to play with, but these days I find myself NEEDING to ensure my build follows a checkbox list (Enough Health, couple of cleanse, 2 Stunbreaks, enough boon generation etc.) and I HATE IT.

    Well Bunkering I kinda understand(later) but node domination is just stay with your team don't run away in the middle of a fight if there are team mates. Basically you complain about how op teamplay is in a teamplay focused game mode.
    This already starts to becomes a meme on this board (xD)a lot but not all complains breaks down to this. True in other games you don't share so much short duration boons which helps you to great a spike/bomb but the difference is not that much when you fight is superior numbers you always win quickly the fight so far nothing happens also we playing control point yes with the 2vs 2(no real team just 2 players) and 3vs 3 it was different but even Team Deathmatch is the same when you play 5 vs 5 you stay together in any game.

    Bunker build aren't the norm any more since they nerfed the amulets true you can play heal fb bunkerish but that sole depends on the skills of the players. Problem is heal builds have now a really hard time to survive and giving enough condi clean that we have condi meta is one huge limiting factor ATM. In wvw this is solved by having 2 healers in the group for condi clean but in pvp you get 1 max and also I don't know if this even work teamplay wise. Actually more control of what kind of team we get is and old request in PvP and PVE(LFG define slots)

  • Whoever plays ranked still is the real meme. Its all about the 5 man in comms dunking on silver players in unranked. Pvping alone is boring af.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Whoever plays ranked still is the real meme. Its all about the 5 man in comms dunking on silver players in unranked. Pvping alone is boring af.

    Playing ranked is perfectly fine.
    However, taking ranked seriously is another thing.

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭

    Were in this meta because Anet hired someone to C Me Cry

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I used to enjoy theory crafting quirky builds to play with, but these days I find myself NEEDING to ensure my build follows a checkbox list (Enough Health, couple of cleanse, 2 Stunbreaks, enough boon generation etc.) and I HATE IT.

    You seem to have confused "theory crafting" with "equipping any old random set of stuff with no thought required".

    Making sure you've got an appropriate coverage of health, cleanses, stunbreaks, boons, etc. that IS what theory crafting is.

    And I don't know what mythical past you're referring to where there was such wide build diversity. Hambow and CEle meta? Chrono-bunkers and condi-zerkers? FB+Scourge?

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Bunkering and node domination in general is just the most unsatisfying way to win or lose.

    It stinks to the high heavens of spoilt cheese.

    Thief rotations are developed to counter this Bunkering strategy, which creates another form of dissatisfaction where Thieves basically run laps all match.

    Any other build far and few between?
    Decent if pulled off and played expertly.
    And if not?
    A huge burden.

    Gone are the days where build variety is one of the charms of this game.

    I used to enjoy theory crafting quirky builds to play with, but these days I find myself NEEDING to ensure my build follows a checkbox list (Enough Health, couple of cleanse, 2 Stunbreaks, enough boon generation etc.) and I HATE IT.

    Well Bunkering I kinda understand(later) but node domination is just stay with your team don't run away in the middle of a fight if there are team mates. Basically you complain about how op teamplay is in a teamplay focused game mode.
    This already starts to becomes a meme on this board (xD)a lot but not all complains breaks down to this. True in other games you don't share so much short duration boons which helps you to great a spike/bomb but the difference is not that much when you fight is superior numbers you always win quickly the fight so far nothing happens also we playing control point yes with the 2vs 2(no real team just 2 players) and 3vs 3 it was different but even Team Deathmatch is the same when you play 5 vs 5 you stay together in any game.

    Bunker build aren't the norm any more since they nerfed the amulets true you can play heal fb bunkerish but that sole depends on the skills of the players. Problem is heal builds have now a really hard time to survive and giving enough condi clean that we have condi meta is one huge limiting factor ATM. In wvw this is solved by having 2 healers in the group for condi clean but in pvp you get 1 max and also I don't know if this even work teamplay wise. Actually more control of what kind of team we get is and old request in PvP and PVE(LFG define slots)

    Problem is sidenoder bunker stuff and there is only one sidenoder per team, i mean there is not skilled 1v1 anymore just a decap mender build or a bunker likr scrapper or decap druid

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this mete ia not fun cuz i can't faceroll as ele

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2020

    Meta hasn't been fun since core.

    Reason why?
    They introduce new specs, like Scourge, Reaper, Dragonhunter, Holosmith, etc.

    With no thought of PvP into it.
    What counters this, who counters this, etc.
    When they made the core classes, this game was pretty much designed #esports focused. Now that its not here anymore.

    Lets just make a random class, not even consider "who can counter them, should they have limitations so others can counter them"
    Thats why you have a meta where some professions are WORTHLESS, while others, like necro, have so many options.

    Scourge great? Yes
    Reaper great? Yes
    Core necro great? Yes
    core guardian great? Yes
    Dragonhunter great? Yes
    Firebrand great? Yes

    ...
    core Warrior great? No, maybe good, probably bad
    Berserker great? No, maybe good, probably is bad
    Spellbreaker great? Good, almost great, almost

    They make professions that used to be countered by another profession, more defensive, more pressure, etc. That their counters are no longer a threat. Meanwhile they still GREAT counters who they are supposed to counter.

    Thats why this meta isn't good. They make new profession specs, but they don't think about the PvP portion of it, only "a deadeye would go good in PvE content, lets make em"

    I'm having so much fun making deadeye, its going to be a great spec.
    Ugh, time to come up with a warrior spec, let me rush this spellbreaker we hardly even use in PvE

    Deadeye AMAZING
    Spellbreaker, Berserker, etc. kitten

    (just making these specs, so people don't whine "how come warrior didn't get a spec")

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2020

    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

  • @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

  • @Chaith.8256 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:
    You said it yourself, if skill mattered then chaith would be able to kill you with a scrapper build, yet that's not the case, unless he runs holo meta build, ofc you need to >know how to press buttons and move to still be effective on a meta build, but it would be insane to argue that today's meta builds are harder to master than the ones we >got in last expansion or even core gw2, the skill cap is insanely lower, and on equal skill level builds define every single fight.

    The average skill caps of builds has not changed much, so no, it's not insane to say that. Seems that way because in core GW2 people didn't have years of game knowledge about how to create metas. Reaching skill cap on most classes entails the exact same thing it does now as it did in 2015, with the exception of Thief builds, which definitely are now all forced into lower risk/reward. There's always been a variety of ranges in skill caps between builds. Spirit Ranger meta, Turret Engineer meta, bunker Chrono meta, tank druid/scrapper side node meta, throughout the eras there has been medium to low skill cap builds in the spotlight from time to time. In equal skill, builds define every single fight? Yes, of course, it's not pong here, if equal skill, of course the builds will factor in - a completely overlooked skill here is knowing your matchups and for example, not take a fight against equally skilled players with a build that has lethal on you.

    You also have to understand that the definition of "skill" according to these forums is "the build I play" while the definition of a faceroll build is "the guy who beat me."

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

  • @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Stealth is generally VERY LIMITED in combat(talking 3-5m cooldowns) and breaks when being hit/taking damage in other MMORPG's, too.

    I literally hold nodes for 30+ seconds spamming dodges and I'm not even s/d, if I was s/d I could legit sit there dodge tanking the node for nearly a minute, lol. That just shows the sheer amount of evades(too many) that thief currently has.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

    Been awhile since I played WoW, but when I did you could see players in stealth if they approach from the front. They didn't have teleports (or very limited?). They had one longer cooldown for re-stealth. I'd be surprised if they changed it to GW2's ridiculous version. Nobody likes this class! Thief players complain about being bad at 1v1 while everyone else finds thief annoying as hell because whether or not you're able to kill a thief is pretty much entirely up to the thief!

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Stealth is generally VERY LIMITED in combat(talking 3-5m cooldowns) and breaks when being hit/taking damage in other MMORPG's, too.

    I literally hold nodes for 30+ seconds spamming dodges and I'm not even s/d, if I was s/d I could legit sit there dodge tanking the node for nearly a minute, lol. That just shows the sheer amount of evades(too many) that thief currently has.

    Again neither of that is remotely true in the other BIG 2 mmo's lol, u even play em? Takes secs to be outa combat in wow to really permanently stealth and eso u really at will, both unless u have dots on u.

  • @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

    Been awhile since I played WoW, but when I did you could see players in stealth if they approach from the front. They didn't have teleports (or very limited?). They had one longer cooldown for re-stealth. I'd be surprised if they changed it to GW2's ridiculous version. Nobody likes this class! Thief players complain about being bad at 1v1 while everyone else finds thief annoying as hell because whether or not you're able to kill a thief is pretty much entirely up to the

    Yes in stealth not invisibility if the player has high perception and u stand right in front u will be seen, only the 2 in combat stealth are full invisibility, vanish being 10 secs of full invisibility, if rogues stealth in wow was full invisibility I'd be pretty op given its perma and reapliable outa combat. I. I'm sure any gw2 thief would love the wow version of stealth in gw2 along with sin and now sub's bursts lol then have to sit their as a burst class and chip away slowly at another class if in a +1 or disengaging from most 1v1's.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

    Stealth =\= what gw2 has, which is vanish or invisibility

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

    Stealth =\= what gw2 has, which is vanish or invisibility

    That's right. If teef had wow stealth, and invisiblity as utility's skills I'd rather that, so would most thief players as u wouldnt be using ur resources going thru smoke fields to run around basically unseen permanently until first attack. The nerf stealth threads would poor in from this community haha

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

    Stealth =\= what gw2 has, which is vanish or invisibility

    That's right. If teef had wow stealth, and invisiblity as utility's skills I'd rather that, so would most thief players as u wouldnt be using ur resources going thru smoke fields to run around basically unseen permanently until first attack. The nerf stealth threads would poor in from this community haha

    I would much prefer thief with strong openers but dramatically reduced disengage/mobility/stealth. Also better 1v1 capability without relying so heavily on endless evades. This is an annoying class whether it's effective or not.

  • @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

    Stealth =\= what gw2 has, which is vanish or invisibility

    That's right. If teef had wow stealth, and invisiblity as utility's skills I'd rather that, so would most thief players as u wouldnt be using ur resources going thru smoke fields to run around basically unseen permanently until first attack. The nerf stealth threads would poor in from this community haha

    I would much prefer thief with strong openers but dramatically reduced disengage/mobility/stealth. Also better 1v1 capability without relying so heavily on endless evades. This is an annoying class whether it's effective or not.

    Issue is for how good rogues disengage potential is in wow almost every class in gw2 can disengage better. In gw2 mobility across ALL classes is comparatively higher than most classes in other mmo's do to the skill designs and class designs in gw2 therefore given teefs a rogue like and rogue are high burst/mobility, to have comparatively high mobility in gw2 u gotta be pretty mobile or u end up glassy high spike with the same mobility tanks do, that sound right? Think about how mobile holo's can be while also having stealth or a ranger or warrior lmao, only classes not highly mobile in gw2 is guards and necros and even necros have speed rune.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

    Stealth =\= what gw2 has, which is vanish or invisibility

    That's right. If teef had wow stealth, and invisiblity as utility's skills I'd rather that, so would most thief players as u wouldnt be using ur resources going thru smoke fields to run around basically unseen permanently until first attack. The nerf stealth threads would poor in from this community haha

    I would much prefer thief with strong openers but dramatically reduced disengage/mobility/stealth. Also better 1v1 capability without relying so heavily on endless evades. This is an annoying class whether it's effective or not.

    So would a lot of former thief mains, but that would mean removing shortbow 5. Though I can guarantee you, the "thief with strong openers" would be very unpopular. Just look at what WvW had with its oneshot thieves for a while. Also reducing stealth is pointless if you want to improve thieves stealth openers, since thats the only time stealth is actually good. Also, "endless evades"? D/P theif evades at about the average level. This isnt sword weaver were talking about. S/D even doesnt evade as much as sword weaver. And thief needs some way of surviving, and theyre not getting blocks or invulns.

  • @Shiyo.3578 said:
    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Agree on most, but druid is supposed to be "support" not "condi bruiser", just because it have some toxic traits(ancient seed), doesn't make it automatically a condi bruiser, given most of it's kit being focused on "healing/supporting allies".
    Guardian is supposed to be... guardian, protector, defender for your allies, not "holy warrior".
    Most classes if not all don't have "specified" roles, especially core classes, what are they supposed to be?
    A-net needs to clearly state what xyz class/specialization is supposed to be and then follow it.