(Roaming) Immob druid vs ele is almost unwinnable. Willing to bet that ele isn't the only victim

inb4 "lol roaming in 2020" please don't bother with this comment, you'd be contributing nothing to the thread.

Usually when I criticize immob druid I am told "just run more cleanses l0l", "just dodge" or "warriors can break out of immob just roll a warrior", "they don't do much damage while you're immobed, just cleanse it & break the vine" which is categorically false because condi is overperforming across all specs right now and I can't "cleanse, break the vine & run" because as soon as I do that there is another vine, and then another vine, and then another vine, and, am I clear yet? - or I'm off-rotation, chilled, stunned again etc etc, another vine, etc...

The fact that the only build I've discovered for ele that can frequently survive for longer than 15 seconds (and sometimes win) vs immob-spam-druid builds is water/fire/weaver running every single cleanse trait & utility in the game alongside antitoxin rune and cleansing sigil ... is nothing short of absurd. Try fighting a power build with that full-cleanse build and see how it goes, it's not pretty. I shouldn't have to re-spec every time I run into a druid in WvW just because they're insanely broken.

I understand that some matchups will be sub-optimal. You can't win every 1v1. Sometimes their build will out-perform your build. Yes, I know, it's part of the game. But there should not exist a 1v1 matchup where it is almost entirely impossible to win for an entire class with the exception of one build that hits like a wet noodle but can survive the condi spam.

How has this not been nerfed to the ground yet? There is simply too much immob spam from druid.

just dodge

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:just dodge

:'D problem solved thank you my man /thread

Ele tends to run into a def vs attk problem if you can live though the attk more then likely you cant hit the target hard enofe but if you can hit the target hard enofe you cant live though there attk. That is what it means to be a light armor low hp class in gw2. There simply no free riding for the ele class like say a war who gets the most of "free" hp / armor. Your best bet is to go weaver as it gets "free" hp with out giving up as much as say core ele or tempest.

Immob druids are the most annoying build right now.Have you tried FA tempest? Can clear immob on every overload on top of the regular cleanse and lots of mobility, superspeed and stability.

“I shouldn't have to re-spec every time I run into a druid in WvW just because they're insanely broken”

Sorry, but that’s how the game goes. If you are expecting a super god build that can counter every other build then that’s your faulty thinking.

Also, again, you’re getting outplayed.

And if you want to complain about immobilized, then let’s also have a discussion about that constant barrier build that you run too... ya know, for balance reasons of course.

I'm just sick of them because they're getting more and more popular and it is complete ape tier build. I feel pretty well the same about it as I do Signet core Necro and Condi Spellbreaker- it's only a problem in 1v1's so I doubt if it will be receiving nerfs any time soon.

Said build(s) are of very little presence in team fights other than having enough durability to be good revive bots for their downed teammates. But they are so horrendously tanky and sustainable that they can kill the majority of builds in 1v1's just due to sheer attrition and nothing else.

I'm not as annoyed by Immob Druid as OP, but I do agree that they're obnoxious, and Immobilize as a Condition needs to have some balancing reviews.For Druid specifically, I think Ancient Seeds needs to be reworked in to something more valuable and less annoying. Either completely rework it or change it such that the Immobilize only procs when the Ranger player delivers the CC. Right now, Ancient Seeds will proc as long as the Ranger is hitting someone(s) that is CC'd regardless of whether they or their pet delivered that CC. That's why Barrage on a group can be such a pain when coming from a Druid.

Also, I recommend having some Rune of the Revenant on hand for fighting this build. Use heal -> gain Resistance -> lol Immob. Can't Immob you again after you cleanse it if you're immune to it.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I'm just sick of them because they're getting more and more popular and it is complete ape tier build. I feel pretty well the same about it as I do Signet core Necro and Condi Spellbreaker- it's only a problem in 1v1's so I doubt if it will be receiving nerfs any time soon.

Said build(s) are of very little presence in team fights other than having enough durability to be good revive bots for their downed teammates. But they are so horrendously tanky and sustainable that they can kill the majority of builds in 1v1's just due to sheer attrition and nothing else.

I'm not as annoyed by Immob Druid as OP, but I do agree that they're obnoxious, and Immobilize as a Condition needs to have some balancing reviews.For Druid specifically, I think Ancient Seeds needs to be reworked in to something more valuable and less annoying. Either completely rework it or change it such that the Immobilize only procs when the Ranger player delivers the CC. Right now, Ancient Seeds will proc as long as the Ranger is hitting someone(s) that is CC'd regardless of whether they or their pet delivered that CC. That's why Barrage on a group can be such a pain when coming from a Druid.

Also, I recommend having some Rune of the Revenant on hand for fighting this build. Use heal -> gain Resistance -> lol Immob. Can't Immob you again after you cleanse it if you're immune to it.

Warrior main here. What is a condi spellbreaker? Pls enlighten me. I've heard of condi berserker but spb? Some new build?

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I'm just sick of them because they're getting more and more popular and it is complete ape tier build. I feel pretty well the same about it as I do Signet core Necro and Condi Spellbreaker- it's only a problem in 1v1's so I doubt if it will be receiving nerfs any time soon.

Said build(s) are of very little presence in team fights other than having enough durability to be good revive bots for their downed teammates. But they are so horrendously tanky and sustainable that they can kill the majority of builds in 1v1's just due to sheer attrition and nothing else.

I'm not as annoyed by Immob Druid as OP, but I do agree that they're obnoxious, and Immobilize as a Condition needs to have some balancing reviews.For Druid specifically, I think Ancient Seeds needs to be reworked in to something more valuable and less annoying. Either completely rework it or change it such that the Immobilize

only procs when the Ranger player delivers the CC.

Right now, Ancient Seeds will proc as long as the Ranger is hitting someone(s) that is CC'd regardless of whether they or their pet delivered that CC. That's why Barrage on a group can be such a pain when coming from a Druid.

Also, I recommend having some Rune of the Revenant on hand for fighting this build. Use heal -> gain Resistance -> lol Immob. Can't Immob you again after you cleanse it if you're immune to it.

I don't know the exact build, but I've fought quite a few. DB and BG have more than a couple of them and they're extremely obnoxious. Longbow + Sword/X. Very, very good sustain and moderate damage. They don't hurt a whole lot, similar to Signet Necro, but they just have so much armor, health, and regen that they're very difficult to pressure down.

I imagine it's something similar to this.

@Swagger.1459 said:Also, again, you’re getting outplayed.

And if you want to complain about immobilized, then let’s also have a discussion about that constant barrier build that you run too... ya know, for balance reasons of course.

My barrier build can be countered, and often is. When I win fights on that build vs competent players it's often very close and takes at least a minute. You just bait the cooldowns if you want to counter it. You said the same thing in the previous thread; nothing has changed since last time we talked about this.

For this reason, please stay out of the thread this time. You didn't contribute anything valuable to the discussion last time and you're already off to a bad start this time. I know you're upset that I'm criticizing your beloved cheese build, but there is no need to try to "NO U" me about my barrier build which so far has been complained about only by you.

If your definition of 'outplayed' is someone pressing a few buttons and another player not being able to do anything because they literally cannot do anything and have access to none of their cleanses, you're severely cognitively dissonant and probably just saying this for your ego's sake.

@Swagger.1459 said:“I shouldn't have to re-spec every time I run into a druid in WvW just because they're insanely broken”

Sorry, but that’s how the game goes. If you are expecting a super god build that can counter every other build then that’s your faulty thinking.

I'm honestly not sure how you missed what I said about this already. It was in the original post. If you can come up with an actual rebuttal to the point that I made, I'm all ears. Otherwise please don't just whine because I'm criticizing your build, let's hear some actual reasoning. Or exit the thread, because you tend to be a broken record.

@solemn.9608 said:I understand that some matchups will be sub-optimal. You can't win every 1v1. Sometimes their build will out-perform your build. Yes, I know, it's part of the game. But there should not exist a 1v1 matchup where it is almost entirely impossible to win for an entire class with the exception of one build that hits like a wet noodle but can survive the condi spam.

edit // I'm not discouraging dissenting opinions here, I'm very much open to a real dialogue. Swagger is just a rude dude so he's always going to get this tone from me. Happy to discuss with anyone else.

Dagger/Focus LR Weaver didn't felt that bad vs druid, despite relative low amount of cleanses (and me being pretty bad at playing weaver). Good amount of cc, burst and projectile denial. I could often kill them fast enough, before running out of defenses. Condi druid tends to be weak vs cc and burst. Trying to brawl and "burn" it slowly usually won't work because of the high sustain it has and the longer the fight goes the more likely you end up getting stuck in the roots without a way out. Key to survival is avoiding the ccs (there is not much else to dodge), stunbreaking before the roots spawn or (in case of daze) dodging the follow up dmg which would trigger the roots. Cleanses should be treated as "last-resort" in case avoiding the roots fails (which will inevitably happen), but not the first choice of defense.

A dev will read your complaint and see that YOU do not want to adjust YOUR build, although there ARE counters. Evidence of “I shouldn't have to re-spec every time I run into a druid in WvW just because they're insanely broken” clearly shows YOU are not willing to adapt despite the "tools" available.

You just want the devs to nerf something you struggle with, because you can't be inconvenienced to build craft, or merely swap a build. And a players unwillingness to make an effort isn't a rational reason to change anything.

@"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:Dagger/Focus LR Weaver didn't felt that bad vs druid, dspite relative low amount of cleanses (and me being prety bad at playing weaver). Good amount of cc, burst and projectile denial. I could often kill them fast enough, before running out of defenses. Condi druid tends to be weak vs cc and burst. Trying to "burn" it slowly usually won't work because of the sustain it has. Key to survival is avoiding the ccs (there is not much else to dodge), stunbreaking before the roots spawn or (in case of daze) dodging the follow up dmg which would trigger the roots. Cleanses should be treated as your "last-resort" in case avoiding the roots fails (which will inevitably happen), but not your first choice of defense.

+1helpful

@"Swagger.1459" said:A dev will read your complaint and see that YOU do not want to adjust YOUR build, although there ARE counters. Evidence of “I shouldn't have to re-spec every time I run into a druid in WvW just because they're insanely broken” clearly shows YOU are not willing to adapt despite the "tools" available.

You just want the devs to nerf something you struggle with, because you can't be inconvenienced to build craft, or merely swap a build. And a players unwillingness to make an effort isn't a rational reason to change anything.

It's not unwillingness to adapt my dude, it's unwillingness to get absolutely wrecked by anything other than the build I'm re-spec'ing to counter. If I play, i.e., LR focus offhand I will lack damage, be slower paced both in combat & mobility in general, and have a disadvantage vs several other builds which will then become the new problems. You would say now, this is why I can't have a build that will be able to fight everything, and why I have to make trade-offs and sacrifices to the build; I understand that my build will not be able to 1v1 everything equally, the problem is that it has almost no chance vs a genuinely over-powered build.

I can't make it any more clear than that - imagine if Necro was patched to just spam thousands of conditions AOE constantly without pressing any buttons. Seems OP? Swagger doesn't think so, Swagger thinks you should just "change your build & deal with it" aka bow down before my build of choice & don't dare challenge how broken it is.

“I shouldn't have to re-spec every time I run into a druid in WvW”

and

"It's not unwillingness to adapt my dude"

but

"I shouldn't have to re-spec"

...You want your 1 build to do everything, but that's not how it works. And any competitive minded player would do their own math, not ask the the devs to do the math for them. And we have all discussed this same stuff in the previous 3 threads you posted. You are unwilling to change or learn from the encounter, and that's the real problem here.

@"Swagger.1459" said:A dev will read your complaint and see that YOU do not want to adjust YOUR build, although there ARE counters. Evidence of “I shouldn't have to re-spec every time I run into a druid in WvW just because they're insanely broken” clearly shows YOU are not willing to adapt despite the "tools" available.

You just want the devs to nerf something you struggle with, because you can't be inconvenienced to build craft, or merely swap a build. And a players unwillingness to make an effort isn't a rational reason to change anything.

And you're not willing to adapt to possible proper balance without broken mechanics and need to label everything as "l2p issue"?It needs nerfs if not complete deletion, it's unhealthy mechanic for PvP environment. Ancient Seeds still not deleted after 5 years is a joke. Vines are buggy and for certain classes non-interactive, meaning impossible to destroy, another problem with them is that they reapply immobilize even after you've cleansed it and still be trapped within them, wth is this? You either need to destroy them(if actually you can hit them, which not every class can) or be LUCKY to cleanse and dodge out of them.So all players in the entire game have to theorycraft just to deal with 1 guy with broken build, yea, sure.You also missed part in which OP states that he made changes to the build to have a better chances against that bs.

a truly wise wizard knows when to use his powers to destroy and when to spam superspeed to walk away from cheese gimmick builds and builds that will own him

I don't know, I think he might have a point. If the roaming meta consists of

A) Immob DruidB) The one class that natively beats Immob DruidC) Everyone else having to build specifically around fighting Immob Druid

Then it means the spec is overpowered.

rework pulsing immob and buff damage plissssss

editactually i would lower cds first

Pulsing Immob is a problem.

Nay, pulsing Immob isn't that huge of a problem : Having multiple Pulsing Immobs are a huge problem.Lots of Druid players love defending the fact they have 3 Pulsing Immobs which have relatively low cooldowns.

Entangle is a minute cooldown.Jarcanada's Embrace is 20 seconds cooldown.Ancient Seeds is 10 seconds cooldown.

All of these pulse immob and bleeding, which combined with something as simple as Smokescale Headbutt or Concussion Shot, will cause the target to simply eat all that Immob, all that Bleeding, and all the cover Poison being thrown in from the Druid themselves.

Sure this build can be easily countered if yu outrange the Druid or are simply able to keep out of reach of their skills and burst them down, but it doesn't change the fact they are rocking a toxic kit which aims to make people's life as difficult as possible.

Ele vs immob druid is one of the most annoying fights. Is it winnable? Depends on enemy build, but yes. Although in most cases, its just a draw.

If dudu goes full ham into power - you winIf dudu goes pampers on with healing stats - its a draw, he deals no damage, you cant get him down, the only thing that he can do is annoy you to deathIf dudu goes condi or some stupid tank hybrid - its the worst case. If you dont run enough cleanses, you might eventually die. But if you do, its probably draw, he wont stack enough condis to burst you, and you wont get enough window to spike him between immobs.

Tempest should be okayish with how tanky it is atm, core...just dont. If you have problems on weaver, then dont even try it. To play proper core ele you need to master this class, because its state is so underwhelming. Weaver - dont go FA, it sucks vs tanks. LR d/fc is one of the best options, lots of dodges/rushes and ranged options. The second option is water weaver, lots of cleanses, just dont spam it randomly and you shouldnt get stuck in immob ever, making pressure with it is a matter of learning limits. The last one is fireweaver - i wont tell you anything here. If you want to play this stupid spec, go find your own way, i never did and wont ever support this build. There are also things like d/d, but its a personal choice of build.

Tl;dr - annoying matchup, if you know what u r doing and enemy is good, it should be a draw in 90% of the cases. Have fun.

Looks like OP died to a condi druid for the 2nd time, thus the 2nd thread :)

@"Swagger.1459" said:“I shouldn't have to re-spec every time I run into a druid in WvW”

and

"It's not unwillingness to adapt my dude"

but

"I shouldn't have to re-spec"

...I keep defending immob-spam-druid because I'm a ranger main and can't admit that it's OP

Hey friend, looks like you didn't read my response. I'm not typing it again, you're an adult, you can read it.

@"solemn.9608" said:I understand that my build will not be able to 1v1 everything equally, the problem is that it has almost no chance vs a genuinely over-powered build.

I can't make it any more clear than that - imagine if Necro was patched to just spam thousands of conditions AOE constantly without pressing any buttons. Seems OP? Swagger doesn't think so, Swagger thinks you should just "change your build & deal with it" aka bow down before my build of choice & don't dare challenge how broken it is.

---

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:Looks like OP died to a condi druid for the 2nd time, thus the 2nd thread :)

That is in fact exactly what happened

@Scorci.3250 said:a truly wise wizard knows when to use his powers to destroy and when to spam superspeed to walk away from cheese gimmick builds and builds that will own him

Thank you Scorci lmao

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:-snip-

TY. The dude just doesn't want to see his favourite cheese build nerfed.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't know, I think he might have a point. If the roaming meta consists of

A) Immob DruidB) The one class that natively beats Immob DruidC) Everyone else having to build specifically around fighting Immob Druid

Then it means the spec is overpowered.

Another good way to describe the issue, ty this is essentially what I was getting at with this thread

@Yasai.3549 said:Pulsing Immob is a problem.Nay, pulsing Immob isn't that huge of a problem : Having multiple Pulsing Immobs are a huge problem.Lots of Druid players love defending the fact they have 3 Pulsing Immobs which have relatively low cooldowns.All of these pulse immob and bleeding, which combined with something as simple as Smokescale Headbutt or Concussion Shot, will cause the target to simply eat all that Immob, all that Bleeding, and all the cover Poison being thrown in from the Druid themselves.

This. This is what happens every time. I'm cc/immob/condi bursted several times in a row and I can do literally nothing to change it, even with cleanses, even while attacking the vines. It's just stupidly op.

Honestly I feel like Anti-toxin is the wrong way to go about it. The roots stick you in place, so if you are unfortunate to cleanse at the wrong time, or cleanse cover condis, then you're still stuck. I imagine revenant or resistance would be much more effective for those purposes as you can willingly walk off the root at a key moment and there's nothing the druid can do about it.

I also wonder how extra stability in the build would effect the outcome, but ele is also sorely lacking sources of that so...

Either way I agree with the earlier assessment, druids themselves are sorely lacking anti-CC so whatever your build it should try to make use of elementalists devastating long CCs after burning their stunbreaks.

I did read all 4 threads and the community tried to give you support and advice...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107934/running-antitoxin-rune-still-being-unable-to-do-anything-vs-immob-ranger-druid

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104273/roaming-condi-builds-forcing-us-to-sacrifice-crucial-build-elements-for-cleanse-uptime

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103025/wvw-binded-once-every-6-seconds-immobed-every-2-seconds-without-binds-not-ok

And I'm pretty decent at reading between the lines...

“I shouldn't have to re-spec”

"I don't want to be boxed into running all this anti-condi stuff when there are so many other options in the game.”

“I'd like to try not to sacrifice one of my favourite things about this game just so that I can avoid the nuisance of a couple niche builds”

“This brings me to the same issue I have with the condi meta. I don't want to be boxed into running one rune/setup just because one or two builds are ridiculous, and running this to counter them puts me at a competitive disadvantage vs every other build in the game where I'd benefit more from other runes.”

And those are just a few...

You are not open to advice. You are not willing to change. You want the game to change for you, even though the options exist already. And no, the game wasn't designed to have 1 super "I can beat everyone 90% of the time" build to counter anything that crosses your path.

This is also wvw. This isn't a dueling mode. You aren't going to convince the devs to change professions in this game for duels, especially in the wvw section. And I highly doubt the devs will change something because players aren't willing to make adjustments to their builds using the "stuff" they already put in game for players to use.

@"Swagger.1459" said:I did read all 4 threads and the community tried to give you support and advice...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107934/running-antitoxin-rune-still-being-unable-to-do-anything-vs-immob-ranger-druid

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104273/roaming-condi-builds-forcing-us-to-sacrifice-crucial-build-elements-for-cleanse-uptime

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103025/wvw-binded-once-every-6-seconds-immobed-every-2-seconds-without-binds-not-ok

And I'm pretty decent at reading between the lines...

“I shouldn't have to re-spec”

"I don't want to be boxed into running all this anti-condi stuff when there are so many other options in the game.”

“I'd like to try not to sacrifice one of my favourite things about this game just so that I can avoid the nuisance of a couple niche builds”

“This brings me to the same issue I have with the condi meta. I don't want to be boxed into running one rune/setup just because one or two builds are ridiculous, and running this to counter them puts me at a competitive disadvantage vs every other build in the game where I'd benefit more from other runes.”

And those are just a few...

You are not open to advice. You are not willing to change. You want the game to change for you, even though the options exist already. And no, the game wasn't designed to have 1 super "I can beat everyone 90% of the time" build to counter anything that crosses your path.

This is also wvw. This isn't a dueling mode. You aren't going to convince the devs to change professions in this game for duels, especially in the wvw section. And I highly doubt the devs will change something because players aren't willing to make adjustments to their builds using the "stuff" they already put in game for players to use.

See... you type a lot of words, but you don't really say much. You're not open to new information. You're not willing to change your mind about druid. You want the players to submit like obedient dogs to an obviously broken build/mechanic.

Bye felicia