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Fix deadeye

fix perm stealth keep hiding and porting.
I know wvw is dead, the siege side of things is dead, roaming is dead, support is dead, hackers don't get banned, get it all out of the way not here to dispute any of it.
The mount sniff bell, to indicate a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye. Nor is the static paint trap that can be removed instantly
It isn't, there are so many things wrong with stealth in gw2 but lets just go one step at a time.
Since I spotted some changes recently that resemble someone blowing the dust off the wvw shelf Here I am

<13

Comments

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @purple.6194 said:
    The mount sniff bell, to indicate a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye.

    So you are saying the skill that doesnt show stealthed players or reveal is not counterplay to permastealth deadeyes?!?!?

    WHY DO I KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME WRONG?!

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You'd have to fix Daredevil and Core also though. Poor Deadeye needs their icon changed so they don't look soo scary.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They're called thieves but everyone just absolutely loses their minds if they ever actually steal a tower or something.

  • aleron.1438aleron.1438 Member ✭✭✭

    @purple.6194 said:
    fix perm stealth keep hiding and porting.
    I know wvw is dead, the siege side of things is dead, roaming is dead, support is dead, hackers don't get banned, get it all out of the way not here to dispute any of it.
    The mount sniff bell, to indicate a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye. Nor is the static paint trap that can be removed instantly
    It isn't, there are so many things wrong with stealth in gw2 but lets just go one step at a time.
    Since I spotted some changes recently that resemble someone blowing the dust off the wvw shelf Here I am

    Show me a video proof where a Deadeye instantly removed the paint trap debuff.
    Ubi made the same allegation about a year ago. He never produced anything.

    Warclaw sniff isn't supposed to ping stealthed targets

    Punisher is a famous Desolation player that enjoys doing keep/tower loitering. To solo it if the occasion is there or to buy time for an insertion team to make it back. He will always cause a big chatter chaos in /t and there will be calls to report him as usual by players who don't understand the play at work they think they witnessed clearly. It only takes 2 players who know the con to flush him out while Preparation Portal is on CD or to kill him (portal is they void). When you feel mature to ask for help on how to foil the con, I'll gladly share tips in this prospective thread. But since we're Until then, since we're in a thread named "Fix deadeye", here's my honorary 'l2p scrub'.

  • Mikhael.2391Mikhael.2391 Member ✭✭✭

    @purple.6194 said:
    fix perm stealth keep hiding and porting.
    I know wvw is dead, the siege side of things is dead, roaming is dead, support is dead, hackers don't get banned, get it all out of the way not here to dispute any of it.
    The mount sniff bell, to indicate a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye. Nor is the static paint trap that can be removed instantly
    It isn't, there are so many things wrong with stealth in gw2 but lets just go one step at a time.
    Since I spotted some changes recently that resemble someone blowing the dust off the wvw shelf Here I am

    Unfortunately anet is gong to ignore you because its fine for them as it is.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mikhael.2391 said:

    @purple.6194 said:
    fix perm stealth keep hiding and porting.
    I know wvw is dead, the siege side of things is dead, roaming is dead, support is dead, hackers don't get banned, get it all out of the way not here to dispute any of it.
    The mount sniff bell, to indicate a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye. Nor is the static paint trap that can be removed instantly
    It isn't, there are so many things wrong with stealth in gw2 but lets just go one step at a time.
    Since I spotted some changes recently that resemble someone blowing the dust off the wvw shelf Here I am

    Unfortunately anet is gong to ignore you because its fine for them as it is.

    If they thought it was fine they wouldn't keep nerfing stuff.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If Mesmers did that, it would be fixed (read: destroyed), a long time ago, along with a ton of unnecessary nerfs not even related to the problem. :tongue:
    Anet loves Thieves, they'll never get nerfed. Just deal with it and use the skills available to you to reveal them. Like the mount one for exaple.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There should be a disclaimer at game purchase or before downloading f2p version stating....this game has stealth and teleports used by some characters and heavily used by the games rogue not unlike all mmo's. If u have a problem with the standard rogue archetype or the use of these mechanics, pls be advised to look elsewhere for ur gaming needs.
    Stealth and ports are in all mmo's and used heavily by all rogue's in all mmo's and their not going anywhere so my suggestion for all these whiny players complaining about those 2 mechanics to save the other players sanity and ur own and play a different game where these mechanics dont exist, which basically takes all mmo's of the list :).

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    If Mesmers did that, it would be fixed (read: destroyed), a long time ago, along with a ton of unnecessary nerfs not even related to the problem. :tongue:
    Anet loves Thieves, they'll never get nerfed. Just deal with it and use the skills available to you to reveal them. Like the mount one for exaple.

    See my post above. Thieves literally just got a nerf, you can read the thread. If Anet deleted thief class there would still be posts here claiming someone hacked and got their thief back in the game and got away from someone with a reset.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • GenerationX.9178GenerationX.9178 Member ✭✭
    edited December 8, 2020

    I think thief should be deleted from the game. Most thieves spam dodge, stealth or port all day long not to mention most skills are instant.

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2020

    Just pay bounty to "Lord Hizen" and give him the names of ppl that claim "thief is fine or say l2p or i can deal with stealth" so he can gank them on his DE and post vids about it.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2020

    @kash.9213 said:
    You'd have to fix Daredevil and Core also though. Poor Deadeye needs their icon changed so they don't look soo scary.

    They cant fix stealth due how netcode works arround it, while doing psome gameplay with friends on same lan(as in we were watching each other screens) we notice that when the thief was revealed or unstealthed, it would keep stealthed on mine for a few seconds more (theres a delay in the stealth info from the atacker and whoi has to render the atacker out of stealth) and thus giving the impression of low reaveal uptime, with more stealthy perma builds was actually a pain to duel.
    The more laggy the server/ map is the worse the effect is, in blobs blasting stealth and push over and over is painfull cause game becomes a mess of daamage first than evertything can happens and enemy will continue stealthed hitting the enemy for the next 2-3sec w/o reveal.

    Anet wont fix that cause if they touch the netcode they m8 break the game.

    Maybe one way to kinda reduce the "perma stealth visual effect" would be remove stealth blasts to something else, and remove stealth from scrappers. :)
    Get mesmers or thiefs if u want stealth :P

    Note: this would kinda balance out the meta classes have the all that is needed wich is 3-4 classes for the gamemode, and would make other classes being used as well,.

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • If I get beaten because i sucked, its ok. (most common.)
    If I get beaten when i managed to play well for a change but my opponent played even better its ok.
    If I get beaten because of my opponent played a spec that happened to overperform during that particular time period, its ok because nerfs and buffs come and go.
    If i get beaten by ridiculously broken stupid class mechanics that shouldn't have never been there at the first place, it makes me think moving on to a better game.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @purple.6194 said:
    fix perm stealth keep hiding and porting.
    I know wvw is dead, the siege side of things is dead, roaming is dead, support is dead, hackers don't get banned, get it all out of the way not here to dispute any of it.
    The mount sniff bell, to indicate a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye. Nor is the static paint trap that can be removed instantly
    It isn't, there are so many things wrong with stealth in gw2 but lets just go one step at a time.
    Since I spotted some changes recently that resemble someone blowing the dust off the wvw shelf Here I am

    No, no, I am sorry, you do not understand, the real question is

    Alliances When!?!?

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], member of [RaW][TACO][Owls][HELL] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2020

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @kash.9213 said:
    You'd have to fix Daredevil and Core also though. Poor Deadeye needs their icon changed so they don't look soo scary.

    They cant fix stealth due how netcode works arround it, while doing psome gameplay with friends on same lan(as in we were watching each other screens) we notice that when the thief was revealed or unstealthed, it would keep stealthed on mine for a few seconds more (theres a delay in the stealth info from the atacker and whoi has to render the atacker out of stealth) and thus giving the impression of low reaveal uptime, with more stealthy perma builds was actually a pain to duel.
    The more laggy the server/ map is the worse the effect is, in blobs blasting stealth and push over and over is painfull cause game becomes a mess of daamage first than evertything can happens and enemy will continue stealthed hitting the enemy for the next 2-3sec w/o reveal.

    Anet wont fix that cause if they touch the netcode they m8 break the game.

    Maybe one way to kinda reduce the "perma stealth visual effect" would be remove stealth blasts to something else, and remove stealth from scrappers. :)
    Get mesmers or thiefs if u want stealth :P

    Note: this would kinda balance out the meta classes have the all that is needed wich is 3-4 classes for the gamemode, and would make other classes being used as well,.

    At the risk of making things more convoluted they could try to give stealth a proximity filter where once you're within a radius for like 4 seconds of an enemy you gain Revealed buff for like 4 seconds that you can make use of and get increasingly revealed visually and can be targeted. Continuing to stealth for Stealth Attack in that radius could still keep you partially visible and you would have to get out of that radius again to go full stealth visually.

    What I meant to the OP though is that All of the thief spec options will likely be the same problem for OP.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would not mind that sniff can detect steath players too. Probably the easiest fix to annoy permastealths in keeps...

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    I would not mind that sniff can detect steath players too. Probably the easiest fix to annoy permastealths in keeps...

    It already can. It plays the chime for player detected. However, it doesn't show the position of the stealthed person on mini map.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • CharonXeno.4869CharonXeno.4869 Member ✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

    Why should another player have to tell you what class or build to play? Other classes can nope out or tank also, when I can't kill them that is all, it's not a win or loss it's just fewer bags. If they're glass then grab them when they come out of stealth so they scramble then hit them with stuff while they're in panic stealth, should be case closed. If they're tanking you, do whatever you do to other classes and builds who tank.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • CharonXeno.4869CharonXeno.4869 Member ✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    @kash.9213 said:

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

    Why should another player have to tell you what class or build to play? Other classes can nope out or tank also, when I can't kill them that is all, it's not a win or loss it's just fewer bags. If they're glass then grab them when they come out of stealth so they scramble then hit them with stuff while they're in panic stealth, should be case closed. If they're tanking you, do whatever you do to other classes and builds who tank.

    Apologies, I sadly have trouble going beyond draws (at best) against most even halfway-skilled Deadeye players. I am admittedly a generally rather sub-par WvW player, I am sadly aware of that myself.
    Since the other poster stated they have hours of dueling and learning how to counter I was hoping to get some hints on how to do that from them. Ah well, I shouldn't have hoped for more than generic tips like "just kill them and don't get killed".

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

    It really depends a lot on what profession you are running and then also on what kind of build they are running.

    Some genetic advice that's a bit more specific:

    DE is vulnerable to reveal + unblockable range damage (or non-projectile based range damage). It can't generally trade shots while under fire.

    Thief is also vulnerable to CC. If you CC and burst they will use Shadowstep to get away. Don't chase them until after the return circle expires. Now they likely don't have stunbreak and are vulnerable to a stun before their Shadowstep comes off cooldown.

    Otherwise, don't stay still. Try to line of sight and keep moving. If you are open field try to kite them out and lure them into spending resources chasing you. Then, hit them back while they are low on ultilities and initiative.

    For a high stealth opponent just remember that most of their skills after bursting on you are for maintaining stealth. Save a cc to stop them from restealthing from certain abilities like Hide in Shadows (longer cast time) or from a smoke field combo (harder but interrupt is possible with good timing/positioning).

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

    Why should another player have to tell you what class or build to play? Other classes can nope out or tank also, when I can't kill them that is all, it's not a win or loss it's just fewer bags. If they're glass then grab them when they come out of stealth so they scramble then hit them with stuff while they're in panic stealth, should be case closed. If they're tanking you, do whatever you do to other classes and builds who tank.

    Apologies, I sadly have trouble going beyond draws (at best) against most even halfway-skilled Deadeye players. I am admittedly a generally rather sub-par WvW player, I am sadly aware of that myself.
    Since the other poster stated they have hours of dueling and learning how to counter I was hoping to get some hints on how to do that from them. Ah well, I shouldn't have hoped for more than generic tips like "just kill them and don't get killed".

    You can read a 100 page essay on how to duel/kill a thief(de) but you still need practical experience to read enemy's moves and muscle memory of your own game play. People can tell you "do this and do that" and it rarly works the first time. Go on that de build it swlf and you try to gank people.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

    Why should another player have to tell you what class or build to play? Other classes can nope out or tank also, when I can't kill them that is all, it's not a win or loss it's just fewer bags. If they're glass then grab them when they come out of stealth so they scramble then hit them with stuff while they're in panic stealth, should be case closed. If they're tanking you, do whatever you do to other classes and builds who tank.

    Apologies, I sadly have trouble going beyond draws (at best) against most even halfway-skilled Deadeye players. I am admittedly a generally rather sub-par WvW player, I am sadly aware of that myself.
    Since the other poster stated they have hours of dueling and learning how to counter I was hoping to get some hints on how to do that from them. Ah well, I shouldn't have hoped for more than generic tips like "just kill them and don't get killed".

    I'm not all that great either, I get like an hour, hour and half to play after work while half watching tv and talking to people. I'm not going to master every class or even remember what half of what my own stuff is called most of the time so I build to treat npcs and players everywhere the same like they're a break-bar boss with adds that I have to react to in real time. I could pull off some legit thief stuff but I know I'll probably need a good multipurpose and effect tool like scorpion wire and I could take something fun like Shadow Meld on my DE but I know I'll need to pop someones stealth or ping them on the map with Basilik Venom and Stolen Skill, and those kind of choices are largely made based on our servers matchups.

    I've posted the advice I'd give you on other threads but that's only going by my critter brain that wants to live make gold, thief forum has a few threads on your scenario with responses by people who know what they're talking about.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • @saerni.2584 said:

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

    It really depends a lot on what profession you are running and then also on what kind of build they are running.

    Some genetic advice that's a bit more specific:

    DE is vulnerable to reveal + unblockable range damage (or non-projectile based range damage). It can't generally trade shots while under fire.

    Thief is also vulnerable to CC. If you CC and burst they will use Shadowstep to get away. Don't chase them until after the return circle expires. Now they likely don't have stunbreak and are vulnerable to a stun before their Shadowstep comes off cooldown.

    Otherwise, don't stay still. Try to line of sight and keep moving. If you are open field try to kite them out and lure them into spending resources chasing you. Then, hit them back while they are low on ultilities and initiative.

    For a high stealth opponent just remember that most of their skills after bursting on you are for maintaining stealth. Save a cc to stop them from restealthing from certain abilities like Hide in Shadows (longer cast time) or from a smoke field combo (harder but interrupt is possible with good timing/positioning).

    Thank you very much, I'll try those out (though I'll need to double-check what skills/talents in my primary professions apply the revealed state). You've helped me quite a bit. Thanks again :)

  • Skada.1362Skada.1362 Member ✭✭✭

    In this day and age we have build and equipment templates that we can even hotkey for super fast switching. Zerglings trying to get back to their group have no excuses anymore, they should be in their roaming/duel/pvp call it whatever you want builds until they unite with their group.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skada.1362 said:
    In this day and age we have build and equipment templates that we can even hotkey for super fast switching. Zerglings trying to get back to their group have no excuses anymore, they should be in their roaming/duel/pvp call it whatever you want builds until they unite with their group.

    Promptly gets kicked for having non-meta build

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SuchosCZ.2167 said:
    For all the thieves, that deffend stealth mechanic. Here is the counter play other classes have: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

    Out of thousands skills, utilities and traits. Out of 27 professions and specializations, there is 8 skills that you can use for reveal :D ... ye, stealth mechanic is "fine". Just git gut

    Satire aside, even that isn't a defense for deadeyes as they have an ability with an ammo count that can peel revealed (and also restealth). At least daredevil and core thieves are forced to blow more of their cooldowns if revealed is applied, or be punished. Deadeyes -- not so much. Between 1,200 range, shadow meld and high reset/reposition potential through stealth on demand via dodges on top of all of the core thief stuff, its easily the least punishable thief spec that still hits as hard as the melee counterparts. Plus it's the easiest thief spec to play. Deadeye is a game of whack-a-mole that most melee specs are unlikely to win. It's also likely the best +1 spec in the game, for what that's worth.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @SuchosCZ.2167 said:
    For all the thieves, that deffend stealth mechanic. Here is the counter play other classes have: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

    Out of thousands skills, utilities and traits. Out of 27 professions and specializations, there is 8 skills that you can use for reveal :D ... ye, stealth mechanic is "fine". Just git gut

    Satire aside, even that isn't a defense for deadeyes as they have an ability with an ammo count that can peel revealed (and also restealth). At least daredevil and core thieves are forced to blow more of their cooldowns if revealed is applied, or be punished. Deadeyes -- not so much. Between 1,200 range, shadow meld and high reset/reposition potential through stealth on demand via dodges on top of all of the core thief stuff, its easily the least punishable thief spec that still hits as hard as the melee counterparts. Plus it's the easiest thief spec to play. Deadeye is a game of whack-a-mole that most melee specs are unlikely to win. It's also likely the best +1 spec in the game, for what that's worth.

    ~ Kovu

    I agree with how broken Shadow Meld is, I feel like a Deadeye Elite should provide cover for posting up in Kneel instead, but I also feel like right now basilik venom feels a lot better there. Along with Surging runes I'd rather try to flip a fight that's getting dicey than maybe drop target and bounce. Plus I can usually pop others out of stealth or at least see where they're at with venom stolen skill. Meld really does funnel a fight into less deliberate gameplay for both sides when there could be something there to energize DE's signature feature.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • mtnjkbm.7452mtnjkbm.7452 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2021

    ......................................

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2020

    @mtnjkbm.7452 said:

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

    Play soulbeast and just rapidfire them.
    Play dragonhunter and trueshot them.
    Play fresh air ele and combowombo them.
    Play chrono and do what chrono does to them.
    Play dagger pistol thief, basi them and kill them out of stealth to assert dominance. Play sword dagger thief and show them whos the boss of ports.
    Play burn weaver, outsustain easily and pressure them until they run out of cooldowns or ini, then kill or watch them runaway.
    Play burn tempest, use two signets and watch them panic press all their buttons, keep burning until they eventually die.
    Play power dps tempest, reflect all their stuff and watch them not having a good time with their class, while your air minions and the fire elite one, keep attacking.
    Oh or play shortbow power rev and just sevenshot them. Or herold.
    If u cant oneshot, they probably play condi de with trailblazer runes, just like condi p/d thiefs with their meme scorpionwire.
    If thats the case, just ignore them, since they probably have some issues in rl and just want to be understood or someone hurt them at some point.

    Lol. Condi DE. Actually effective condi DE doesn't run trailblazers. And what are "trailblazer runes?"

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • mtnjkbm.7452mtnjkbm.7452 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2021

    ...................................

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mtnjkbm.7452 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @mtnjkbm.7452 said:

    @CharonXeno.4869 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    Ok, I'm willing to learn:
    How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?
    Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

    Play soulbeast and just rapidfire them.
    Play dragonhunter and trueshot them.
    Play fresh air ele and combowombo them.
    Play chrono and do what chrono does to them.
    Play dagger pistol thief, basi them and kill them out of stealth to assert dominance. Play sword dagger thief and show them whos the boss of ports.
    Play burn weaver, outsustain easily and pressure them until they run out of cooldowns or ini, then kill or watch them runaway.
    Play burn tempest, use two signets and watch them panic press all their buttons, keep burning until they eventually die.
    Play power dps tempest, reflect all their stuff and watch them not having a good time with their class, while your air minions and the fire elite one, keep attacking.
    Oh or play shortbow power rev and just sevenshot them. Or herold.
    If u cant oneshot, they probably play condi de with trailblazer runes, just like condi p/d thiefs with their meme scorpionwire.
    If thats the case, just ignore them, since they probably have some issues in rl and just want to be understood or someone hurt them at some point.

    Lol. Condi DE. Actually effective condi DE doesn't run trailblazers. And what are "trailblazer runes?"

    Lol. Edited. i meant stats. Yeh i really dont know what condi de's or pd thiefs are running exactly, in the end.. just tanky and condi, thats it. Who cares?

    Except it's not trailblazers.

    Like you can. But malice is built off crits at 100% bonus. So you aren't going to run with no crit in your stats.

    And who cares? You did by posting about it?

    But I don't think that many are running P/D or condi DE. I've seen maybe 1 condi DE in 50. And he was running rifle. And maybe 2 P/D core thieves. Rest were standard D/P or Rifle power. So like, it's not common and not sure why you are singling it out like you've even fought one before.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:

    You can blame thieves for using stealth to a degree that seems unfair to new players. But the same can be said for many mechanics and builds people use to seem invulnerable or overwhelming.

    At least with other things which seem invincible, yu can teach a newbie, and a newbie can visually identify what is causing them problems.
    Alot of threads with goons going "git gud" comments make no effort in explaining how or what to react or do when faced with a Stealth refreshing Thief.

    In fact, even when people genuinely have comments which help, it all comes down to "Yo, yu pretty much have to play the game more"
    "Go play thief, find out their weakness after playing it yurself"
    "Just LoS DE"
    "Use Reveals" (lol this one is the biggest joke considering only a small handful of builds can run Reveals without gimping their entire performance)
    "Yu have to develop a feel and muscle memory for it"

    I'm not saying all of these are useless comments, but these are all very unhelpful to someone who literally can't visually identify what is happening.

    Ever seen how a bad thief plays? Or a newbie thief?
    Do yu think those guys know the full extent of their kit?

    Newbies are the same : even if they do pick up thief and play it in order to identify their weakness, they have no visual experience of the steps leading to their downfall, and that's why they also play Thief poorly.

    Why?
    Thief just spends their time either not being seen, or standing over yur dead body.

    "But Thief also got hit by the damage nerfs"
    But Thief can also reset themselves endlessly, resulting in them basically having multiple chances to attack again while yu as the defender of any other profession are limited by yur 20s, 30s, 60s, 90s cooldowns.

    "Haha, if they reset, they lose"
    This is just a lie people tell themselves to make themselves feel better.
    Wrong, if they reset, yur cooldowns are still ticking, yur basically gonna get clapped with yur back turned because they can gap close to yu and try again while some of yur important cooldowns are still ticking.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:

    You can blame thieves for using stealth to a degree that seems unfair to new players. But the same can be said for many mechanics and builds people use to seem invulnerable or overwhelming.

    At least with other things which seem invincible, yu can teach a newbie, and a newbie can visually identify what is causing them problems.
    Alot of threads with goons going "git gud" comments make no effort in explaining how or what to react or do when faced with a Stealth refreshing Thief.

    In fact, even when people genuinely have comments which help, it all comes down to "Yo, yu pretty much have to play the game more"
    "Go play thief, find out their weakness after playing it yurself"
    "Just LoS DE"
    "Use Reveals" (lol this one is the biggest joke considering only a small handful of builds can run Reveals without gimping their entire performance)
    "Yu have to develop a feel and muscle memory for it"

    I'm not saying all of these are useless comments, but these are all very unhelpful to someone who literally can't visually identify what is happening.

    Ever seen how a bad thief plays? Or a newbie thief?
    Do yu think those guys know the full extent of their kit?

    Newbies are the same : even if they do pick up thief and play it in order to identify their weakness, they have no visual experience of the steps leading to their downfall, and that's why they also play Thief poorly.

    Why?
    Thief just spends their time either not being seen, or standing over yur dead body.

    "But Thief also got hit by the damage nerfs"
    But Thief can also reset themselves endlessly, resulting in them basically having multiple chances to attack again while yu as the defender of any other profession are limited by yur 20s, 30s, 60s, 90s cooldowns.

    "Haha, if they reset, they lose"
    This is just a lie people tell themselves to make themselves feel better.
    Wrong, if they reset, yur cooldowns are still ticking, yur basically gonna get clapped with yur back turned because they can gap close to yu and try again while some of yur important cooldowns are still ticking.

    To me the biggest newbie mistake is blowing cool downs needlessly.

    But knowing when and how to rotate your cool downs requires you know your own profession to a degree that newbies generally can't pick up on.

    Now, I'm all for giving newbies more opportunities to learn. I do duel people often enough to help them work through their timing and figure out what works. It's part of being a more senior player.

    But if I'm just playing the game in general I don't feel the need to hold back. That isn't cowardice. That's taking an optimized build and using it. To paraphrase a helpful quote "this isn't Saerni's school for newbies." Is my build unfair? As unfair as I can design it to be.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:

    But if I'm just playing the game in general I don't feel the need to hold back. That isn't cowardice. That's taking an optimized build and using it.
    Is my build unfair? As unfair as I can design it to be.

    Ironic.
    Arguing that using the most cowardly and unfair tactic/build is in fact not cowardice.

    Whatever this is going off topic.
    Going back to the original topic on DEs : DE can even remove their own counter of getting Revealed.

    That at least has to go, or have the ammo nerfed to 1.

    Conclusory statement followed by circular logic. But let's get back on topic.

    What would you replace it with?

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:
    What would you replace it with?

    Something that fits the "Sniper" identity better than "Lmao I'm invisible"
    The Espec is called "Deadeye" not "Ghost" or "Spectre" or "Harry Potter's Cloak of Invisibility"

    I've always felt like Shadow Meld is a very shoddy Elite that seems like it was thrown in so that DEs don't have a lack of Stealth in order to keep using DJ, but as we have it now, DE has indeed no lack of Stealth at all, and Shadow Meld is just more Stealth application, with the added bonus of countering their counter.

    I think what would be better fitting is an empower type skill which helps them prepare for their powerful shot.
    I'm thinking of something like :

    • 1/4s cast time
    • Instantly grants Stealth
    • Gives maximum possible Malice
    • Cannot swap weapons
    • Forced into Kneel and cannot unkneel
    • Death Judgement range boosted by 500 range
    • Next Death Judgement pierces up to 5
    • Can be cancelled by pressing the Elite again
    • Only consumes upon casting Death Judgement, then goes into cooldown
    • 60s cooldown competitive, 30s cooldown PvE

    The Deadeye can still Dodge roll in order to extend their Stealth and move, but they will be forced into a kneel for the duration of the buff.
    Should be probably strong enough to take out a squishy with 15k HP, but hey, since they are going all in, it might as well do the job, plus there's a cooldown.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    At least with other things which seem invincible, yu can teach a newbie, and a newbie can visually identify what is causing them problems.

    Enhhhh, sorta, but honestly I'd have to say this game's "look at the animations!" design is kind of a huge failure. A bunch of critical skills are under-animated, effect auras obscure a lot of stuff, in big fights it's just a pile of barely-differentiable red circles and sometimes the reflect barriers don't even render, &c. I feel like a lot of learning GW2 WvW/PvP ends up being learning to just anticipate certain moves based on combos or movement instead of actually watching animations. Which is kind of sad because that was one of their big "action combat!" changed from GW1 but it's ended up kind of a mess.

    Plus you're still staring at the buff bar to see whether enemies have Aegis, Protection, Stability, &c. So the actual "look at the player model!!" design failed there, too. Not to mention in WvW you basically start every small-scale fight by mousing over the enemy's food buffs to figure out whether they're power, condi, or support. :/

  • aleron.1438aleron.1438 Member ✭✭✭

    Yasai, tell me something; before the big patch which nerfed dmg across the board for everyone, how did those prospective newbies learn about the game or their enemies when they would get one shot bursted? Like say a 1MBS DE stalker. Or a stealthed holo or a mesmer. They would insta die without understanding. They would see crazy numbers in the combat log and whine just the same on the forums.

    If they wanted to really learn kitten happened to them and how, well they would still have to do the research on wiki or hop on the other class and try it out themselves to see how it's done and how often it's possible and against whom it even works.

    So I don't buy your arguement. Please enlighten me or give another angle I'm missing.