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TY for the patch

mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 23, 2021 in PVP

It's better to receive something than nothing. Can't wait to see how this affects the meta the last week of this ranked season. I am not being sarcastic

How the heck do I get 5 stars?

Comments

  • torben.1532torben.1532 Member ✭✭✭

    yo these changes are actually really good. sure there are still things that need to get changed but it actually is a really good patch targeting the correct things

  • some good shaves

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • how is nerfing decap druid, which is hardly even competitive at all, counted as good? they did nothing to dragon hunter which is the most broken class right now

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In this case, getting nothing would actually have been better.
    They nerfed counters to DH Condition Trappers while not fixing the actual problems (Trappers runes and the burning condition).

    While the Barrier nerf is nice, the patch overall is just detrimental.

  • OutOfOrder.3719OutOfOrder.3719 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    Some burn stacks should have been removed from the permeating wrath skill or how it interacts with Dragon Hunter. Otherwise I think it’s fine. The only time the burn is a real issue is when there are 2 Dragonhunters, that the burn can’t be cleansed on time.

  • torben.1532torben.1532 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    @Falan.1839 said:
    Are you blushing while lying at least? Honestly, if you put all rev mains in a huge sack and clubbed them until you don't hear a sound anymore you would never hit the wrong guy. Might also wanna add the guard advocates.

    Not sure what you’re on about? There are things missing in the patch yes but if you just objectively look at it pretty much all the changes are good for the game, a semi big step in the right direction
    Aide node meta got more interesting and i doubt we’ll see as much renegade spam now so it opens up to more variety
    Now you tell me what you dislike about this patch and I’m pretty sure you will say herald and yes, there are some things that should be changed about it, for instance making sword 2 a bit weaker and increasing the upkeep cost of glint heal so you can’t always have it ready at no downside whatsoever
    I’m the last person to support class stacking, I think it’s pretty dumb thing to be able to stack the same build multiple times
    However for example having 1x condi herald for side noding and 1x power herald is completely fine in my book because those are different roles
    Obviously it shouldn’t be that one class has the best builds in all roles but condi herald for instance is a viable choice but not necessarily best in slot, always depends on teams and stuff

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    Wasn't minion master the only necro build people complained about recently (for whatever reason)? And it saw a nerf.

    Besides that: Speed rune was nerfed and a speed rune nerf is always a necro nerf, as long as the leaps and teleports of other classes are not touched.

    The swiftness uptime of necro is a joke compared to 1 year ago:
    Agility sigil removed: no swiftness on weaponswap
    Spectral Walk cooldown increased: less swiftness coverage
    Speed Rune nerf 1: +20% swiftness duration instead of the former +50%
    Speed Rune nerf 2: movement speed bonus reduced from +66% to +50%

    Necro is slowly creeping back to pre PoF mobility levels, while all other classes can keep their precious mobility powercreep in terms of added leaps and teleports.

    If you still can not kite shroud after this patch, then I don't know how to help you.

  • @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:
    how is nerfing decap druid, which is hardly even competitive at all, counted as good? they did nothing to dragon hunter which is the most broken class right now

    Decap builds should be straight deleted, what's the point of the "capture the point" gamemode if you just get "denied", are you guys so scared to actually face your opponents in fight and need a cheese to hold your cookie?
    Also, stop using "but but but xyz is more broken than abc!" as an argument, it's really annoying.

    the more variety of gameplay styles, the richer the game. it's a bunker build where you have to hold out against your enemies for a long time. face them for a long time. not just button spam to delete them. it's a very valid addition to the game's varitey. anyways the adjustments aren't bad. people need to stop complaining about different gameplay options. that's really stupid and annoying.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021

    Thank you anet for the minuscule patch after a year of nothing. You guys over at anet really know how to support a game mode.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:
    how is nerfing decap druid, which is hardly even competitive at all, counted as good? they did nothing to dragon hunter which is the most broken class right now

    Decap builds should be straight deleted, what's the point of the "capture the point" gamemode if you just get "denied", are you guys so scared to actually face your opponents in fight and need a cheese to hold your cookie?
    Also, stop using "but but but xyz is more broken than abc!" as an argument, it's really annoying.

    the more variety of gameplay styles, the richer the game. it's a bunker build where you have to hold out against your enemies for a long time. face them for a long time. not just button spam to delete them. it's a very valid addition to the game's varitey. anyways the adjustments aren't bad. people need to stop complaining about different gameplay options. that's really stupid and annoying.

    No it's not. If you care about surviving instead of fighting, then play a survival game. Effective bunkering destroys the mechanic of a capture point based game mode.

  • @KrHome.1920 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:
    how is nerfing decap druid, which is hardly even competitive at all, counted as good? they did nothing to dragon hunter which is the most broken class right now

    Decap builds should be straight deleted, what's the point of the "capture the point" gamemode if you just get "denied", are you guys so scared to actually face your opponents in fight and need a cheese to hold your cookie?
    Also, stop using "but but but xyz is more broken than abc!" as an argument, it's really annoying.

    the more variety of gameplay styles, the richer the game. it's a bunker build where you have to hold out against your enemies for a long time. face them for a long time. not just button spam to delete them. it's a very valid addition to the game's varitey. anyways the adjustments aren't bad. people need to stop complaining about different gameplay options. that's really stupid and annoying.

    No it's not. If you care about surviving instead of fighting, then play a survival game. Effective bunkering destroys the mechanic of a capture point based game mode.

    I believe that bunkering is fine as long it's for 1v1 purposes and doesn't include some pepe pull/push/cc mechanic abuse.
    It should hold 1v1 fairly long until ur friend comes and help, it shouldn't be able to constantly cc ur enemy out of circle in any way, it should be weak when enemy get assist from his teammates(1v2 situation).
    The moment it's capable of holding it own against 1v2+ situation easily or being some pepe push/pull lover it should get nerf bat to the face immediately.
    Assuming they're all "equally skilled", whatever that means in this day and time.

  • @KrHome.1920 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:
    how is nerfing decap druid, which is hardly even competitive at all, counted as good? they did nothing to dragon hunter which is the most broken class right now

    Decap builds should be straight deleted, what's the point of the "capture the point" gamemode if you just get "denied", are you guys so scared to actually face your opponents in fight and need a cheese to hold your cookie?
    Also, stop using "but but but xyz is more broken than abc!" as an argument, it's really annoying.

    the more variety of gameplay styles, the richer the game. it's a bunker build where you have to hold out against your enemies for a long time. face them for a long time. not just button spam to delete them. it's a very valid addition to the game's varitey. anyways the adjustments aren't bad. people need to stop complaining about different gameplay options. that's really stupid and annoying.

    No it's not. If you care about surviving instead of fighting, then play a survival game. Effective bunkering destroys the mechanic of a capture point based game mode.

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:
    how is nerfing decap druid, which is hardly even competitive at all, counted as good? they did nothing to dragon hunter which is the most broken class right now

    Decap builds should be straight deleted, what's the point of the "capture the point" gamemode if you just get "denied", are you guys so scared to actually face your opponents in fight and need a cheese to hold your cookie?
    Also, stop using "but but but xyz is more broken than abc!" as an argument, it's really annoying.

    the more variety of gameplay styles, the richer the game. it's a bunker build where you have to hold out against your enemies for a long time. face them for a long time. not just button spam to delete them. it's a very valid addition to the game's varitey. anyways the adjustments aren't bad. people need to stop complaining about different gameplay options. that's really stupid and annoying.

    No it's not. If you care about surviving instead of fighting, then play a survival game. Effective bunkering destroys the mechanic of a capture point based game mode.

    Hacking would be destroying the mechanic of a capture point based game mode. Being able to hold a point only enforces the gameplay.

  • @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:
    how is nerfing decap druid, which is hardly even competitive at all, counted as good? they did nothing to dragon hunter which is the most broken class right now

    Decap builds should be straight deleted, what's the point of the "capture the point" gamemode if you just get "denied", are you guys so scared to actually face your opponents in fight and need a cheese to hold your cookie?
    Also, stop using "but but but xyz is more broken than abc!" as an argument, it's really annoying.

    the more variety of gameplay styles, the richer the game. it's a bunker build where you have to hold out against your enemies for a long time. face them for a long time. not just button spam to delete them. it's a very valid addition to the game's varitey. anyways the adjustments aren't bad. people need to stop complaining about different gameplay options. that's really stupid and annoying.

    No it's not. If you care about surviving instead of fighting, then play a survival game. Effective bunkering destroys the mechanic of a capture point based game mode.

    I believe that bunkering is fine as long it's for 1v1 purposes and doesn't include some pepe pull/push/cc mechanic abuse.
    It should hold 1v1 fairly long until ur friend comes and help, it shouldn't be able to constantly cc ur enemy out of circle in any way, it should be weak when enemy get assist from his teammates(1v2 situation).
    The moment it's capable of holding it own against 1v2+ situation easily or being some pepe push/pull lover it should get nerf bat to the face immediately.
    Assuming they're all "equally skilled", whatever that means in this day and time.

    that's like saying there should be no pulls or pushes in the game mode which is stupid and would be counterintuitive for a mode that requires you to capture and hold points. And if a druid is able to hold a 1v2 without leaving the point, it's the opponents that suck. If you do decent dps, a druid is going to have to kite in any outnumbered situation. This is not that build you are talking about that needs a bat to the face. I have seen some scrappers like that tho...and a holosmith actually hahaha. Again, druid was the bottom priority and yet they nerfed them.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @WillPaharu.4837 said:
    how is nerfing decap druid, which is hardly even competitive at all, counted as good? they did nothing to dragon hunter which is the most broken class right now

    Decap builds should be straight deleted, what's the point of the "capture the point" gamemode if you just get "denied", are you guys so scared to actually face your opponents in fight and need a cheese to hold your cookie?
    Also, stop using "but but but xyz is more broken than abc!" as an argument, it's really annoying.

    the more variety of gameplay styles, the richer the game. it's a bunker build where you have to hold out against your enemies for a long time. face them for a long time. not just button spam to delete them. it's a very valid addition to the game's varitey. anyways the adjustments aren't bad. people need to stop complaining about different gameplay options. that's really stupid and annoying.

    No it's not. If you care about surviving instead of fighting, then play a survival game. Effective bunkering destroys the mechanic of a capture point based game mode.

    And if someone wants to kill fast, they should play a shooter.

    What kind of argument is that? :lol:

  • @WillPaharu.4837 said:
    that's like saying there should be no pulls or pushes in the game mode which is stupid and would be counterintuitive for a mode that requires you to capture and hold points. And if a druid is able to hold a 1v2 without leaving the point, it's the opponents that suck. If you do decent dps, a druid is going to have to kite in any outnumbered situation. This is not that build you are talking about that needs a bat to the face. I have seen some scrappers like that tho...and a holosmith actually hahaha. Again, druid was the bottom priority and yet they nerfed them.

    Druid isn't supposed to be holding a points though, it's a S U P P O R T, not a duelist and neither a bunker, roamer or whatever else you think it should be by "first design logic", so it being able to hold a point is simply a mistake that shouldn't have happened.
    It's a so called PvP mode in which you should fight players in funny circles(kekw), the moment you just focus on "hold the point and don't let enemy touch it" the game becomes more of "tower defense" instead of "PvP", so pulls and pushes as main mechanic in current PvP is kinda worthless and toxic, because it doesn't allow for interaction with enemy as it should be possible in this environemnt. In long run it would be fine if these ccs/gameplay would be used strategically to bust enemy stack and make it easier to pick-up 1 enemy out of group for fast kill, which it's not used like that in the slighest.
    As I wrote, druid is a support, so it shouldn't be able to hold 1v2+ in the slighest, being capable of doing it by whatever means s/he uses only shows how poorly thought are e-speces and the balance of the game and nothing beside that.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2021

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2021

    this doesn't warrant being called a patch, its been a year since they completely ruined so many things
    (like hammer warrior, an already underused weapon pre feb2020, nerfed out of existence.)

    the minor tweaking of a dozen skills does not constitute a balance patch,
    especially when they dropped the ball so spectacularly over a year ago, we need things fixed asap.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Zee.1294Zee.1294 Member ✭✭

    You guys set your bar so low that you happy to get something then nothing ...Jesus!

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You are talking about scourge but what about the weaknesses? you are acting as if nec is some unbelievable godmode.

    Let us not forget the time of godmode beastmode soulbeast which could escape instantly in the past and 1 shot.

    It had everything:Mobility dmg sustain. Ele had its strength and weaknesses dagger/Dagger has mobility on it but what about weaver? had pretty good dmg and also what about mirage? I call bs on this man.

    MIrage was seriously the most toxic thing ever. I'm tired of people treating nec like its impossibly op when you had builds that could do everything and they can still trade with their illusions they got tons of tools. Sure now they got 1 evade and exaughstion but CMON!!! and what about firebrand? it was so op it was keeping scourge alive.

    I'm not saying nec is bad in PVP but cmon man before the nerfs of dmg to pull back un dmg sustain and mobility, nec had a hard time keeping up or even surviving due to the powercreep of sustain and dmg.

    Reaper wasn't nearly as mobile as some of the stuff and it got a nerf in the form of the rune we used to literally keep up. Also you can kite reaper. If you can't i call L2P.

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    what about when nec isn't in shroud? its 8 sec where they waddle around.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Strength_of_the_Pack!" or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

    Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

    But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

    All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

    I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

    And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said any of that was fine ....I am not some biased kitten :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56638/main-reason-current-ele-should-not-be-buffed#latest

    Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Strength_of_the_Pack!" or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

    Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

    But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

    All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

    I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

    And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1

    Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

    I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

    I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

    As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

    I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

    As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

    Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

    What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

    Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

    Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

    I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

    I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

    I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

    The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

    Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

    Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

    Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

    The whole nerf will just kill the game.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Strength_of_the_Pack!" or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

    Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

    But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

    All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

    I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

    And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1

    Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

    I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

    I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

    As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

    I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

    As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

    Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

    What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

    Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

    Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

    I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

    I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

    I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

    The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

    Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

    Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

    Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

    The whole nerf will just kill the game.

    That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

    Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...and I will not accept that because this is something which was added recently to the class.

    Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

    Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

    This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

    Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

    This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.
    And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.
    Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.
    In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.
    Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

    I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

    There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

    Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Strength_of_the_Pack!" or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

    Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

    But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

    All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

    I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

    And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1

    Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

    I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

    I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

    As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

    I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

    As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

    Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

    What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

    Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

    Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

    I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

    I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

    I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

    The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

    Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

    Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

    Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

    The whole nerf will just kill the game.

    That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

    Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...and I will not accept that because this is something which was added recently to the class.

    Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

    Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

    This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

    Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

    This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

    I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

    Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.
    And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.
    Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.
    In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.
    Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

    I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

    There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

    Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Strength_of_the_Pack!" or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

    Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

    But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

    All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

    I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

    And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1

    Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

    I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

    I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

    As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

    I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

    As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

    Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

    What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

    Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

    Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

    I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

    I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

    I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

    The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

    Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

    Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

    Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

    The whole nerf will just kill the game.

    That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

    Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...and I will not accept that because this is something which was added recently to the class.

    Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

    Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

    This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

    Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

    This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

    I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

    Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

    It's not just the mobility which is lacking....even if you try to set up combos, you have to deal with absurd after cast and cast times on sword if using a weaver.
    -staff ele is just so kitten.....skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eruption are so trash in this time and age of the game, but you also have skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon's_Tooth

    People are using ele like a wannabe thief right now...minus the stealth and mobility....it's BS, this is a design issue not a numbers problem. I made a thread before weaver got released where I pleaded with Anet to avoid adding another melee weapon to ele after warhorn...but they went and added another melee weapon to the class...so people are forced to invest in tankiness to stay alive and Anet goes and starts the nerfing ....right on schedule.

    I gave up on the class, it's really not worth the stress, transferred everything on the necro and I don't regret it....really a shame after the time and effort spent on ele

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.
    And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.
    Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.
    In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.
    Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

    I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

    There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

    Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Strength_of_the_Pack!" or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

    Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

    But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

    All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

    I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

    And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1

    Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

    I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

    I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

    As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

    I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

    As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

    Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

    What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

    Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

    Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

    I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

    I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

    I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

    The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

    Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

    Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

    Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

    The whole nerf will just kill the game.

    That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

    Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...and I will not accept that because this is something which was added recently to the class.

    Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

    Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

    This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

    Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

    This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

    I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

    Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

    It's not just the mobility which is lacking....even if you try to set up combos, you have to deal with absurd after cast and cast times on sword if using a weaver.
    -staff ele is just so kitten.....skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eruption are so trash in this time and age of the game, but you also have skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon's_Tooth

    People are using ele like a wannabe thief right now...minus the stealth and mobility....it's BS, this is a design issue not a numbers problem. I made a thread before weaver got released where I pleaded with Anet to avoid adding another melee weapon to ele after warhorn...but they went and added another melee weapon to the class...so people are forced to invest in tankiness to stay alive and Anet goes and starts the nerfing ....right on schedule.

    I gave up on the class, it's really not worth the stress, transferred everything on the necro and I don't regret it....really a shame after the time and effort spent on ele

    Well there are casts and sorta channel effects buncha weird stuff combined in melee, which for a class that is as squishy as ele is like jumping into a lion pit, you just know its going to go wrong.

    I always did notice something odd about ele, because in pve there isn't the same issues.

    When i'm using D/D for instance, which is highly risky, its less a issue due to knowing that i can just use my mobility to escape. It just seems antithetical to use melee in SPVP on ele.

    I think also some delay might be that you need to literally place the tooth over the area but am i misunderstanding? i'm no master of ele by any means, i just play cause i love the class.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.
    And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.
    Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.
    In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.
    Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

    I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

    There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

    Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Strength_of_the_Pack!" or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

    Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

    But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

    All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

    I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

    And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1

    Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

    I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

    I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

    As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

    I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

    As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

    Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

    What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

    Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

    Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

    I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

    I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

    I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

    The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

    Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

    Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

    Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

    The whole nerf will just kill the game.

    That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

    Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...and I will not accept that because this is something which was added recently to the class.

    Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

    Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

    This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

    Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

    This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

    I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

    Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

    It's not just the mobility which is lacking....even if you try to set up combos, you have to deal with absurd after cast and cast times on sword if using a weaver.
    -staff ele is just so kitten.....skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eruption are so trash in this time and age of the game, but you also have skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon's_Tooth

    People are using ele like a wannabe thief right now...minus the stealth and mobility....it's BS, this is a design issue not a numbers problem. I made a thread before weaver got released where I pleaded with Anet to avoid adding another melee weapon to ele after warhorn...but they went and added another melee weapon to the class...so people are forced to invest in tankiness to stay alive and Anet goes and starts the nerfing ....right on schedule.

    I gave up on the class, it's really not worth the stress, transferred everything on the necro and I don't regret it....really a shame after the time and effort spent on ele

    Well there are casts and sorta channel effects buncha weird stuff combined in melee, which for a class that is as squishy as ele is like jumping into a lion pit, you just know its going to go wrong.

    I always did notice something odd about ele, because in pve there isn't the same issues.

    When i'm using D/D for instance, which is highly risky, its less a issue due to knowing that i can just use my mobility to escape. It just seems antithetical to use melee in SPVP on ele.

    I think also some delay might be that you need to literally place the tooth over the area but am i misunderstanding? i'm no master of ele by any means, i just play cause i love the class.

    I have no hope for the class ...simply putting, no balance dev actually mains it in game, if you don't actually play actively and simply rely on "feedback" from different sources...there is no hope for any significant positive change....just look how fast they are in applying 50%+ nerfs on utilities and dmg...following the..."feedback" while you have skills on ele which have not be touched since launch :

    Frozen gust - Flamewall - Warhorn etc etc etc

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.
    And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.
    Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.
    In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.
    Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

    I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

    There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

    Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

    **Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.
    Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

    This is so far what we got.

    Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

    There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

    Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

    EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.
    DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

    It has its downsides.

    If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

    Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

    Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

    Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

    Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm or
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

    "Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

    This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

    With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

    Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

    Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

    P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

    You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Strength_of_the_Pack!" or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

    I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

    Where is the nerf to smoke field?

    Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

    Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

    Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

    Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

    But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

    All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

    I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

    And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1

    Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

    I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

    I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

    As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

    I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

    As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

    Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

    What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

    Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

    Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

    I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

    I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

    I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

    The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

    Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

    Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

    Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

    The whole nerf will just kill the game.

    That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

    Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...and I will not accept that because this is something which was added recently to the class.

    Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

    Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

    This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

    Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

    This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

    I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

    Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

    It's not just the mobility which is lacking....even if you try to set up combos, you have to deal with absurd after cast and cast times on sword if using a weaver.
    -staff ele is just so kitten.....skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eruption are so trash in this time and age of the game, but you also have skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon's_Tooth

    People are using ele like a wannabe thief right now...minus the stealth and mobility....it's BS, this is a design issue not a numbers problem. I made a thread before weaver got released where I pleaded with Anet to avoid adding another melee weapon to ele after warhorn...but they went and added another melee weapon to the class...so people are forced to invest in tankiness to stay alive and Anet goes and starts the nerfing ....right on schedule.

    I gave up on the class, it's really not worth the stress, transferred everything on the necro and I don't regret it....really a shame after the time and effort spent on ele

    Well there are casts and sorta channel effects buncha weird stuff combined in melee, which for a class that is as squishy as ele is like jumping into a lion pit, you just know its going to go wrong.

    I always did notice something odd about ele, because in pve there isn't the same issues.

    When i'm using D/D for instance, which is highly risky, its less a issue due to knowing that i can just use my mobility to escape. It just seems antithetical to use melee in SPVP on ele.

    I think also some delay might be that you need to literally place the tooth over the area but am i misunderstanding? i'm no master of ele by any means, i just play cause i love the class.

    I have no hope for the class ...simply putting, no balance dev actually mains it in game, if you don't actually play actively and simply rely on "feedback" from different sources...there is no hope for any significant positive change....just look how fast they are in applying 50%+ nerfs on utilities and dmg...following the..."feedback" while you have skills on ele which have not be touched since launch :

    Frozen gust - Flamewall - Warhorn etc etc etc

    I think i finally understand what you mean by aftercast. You mean something akin to lightning whip, and how dragon tooth hovers above a persons head before falling into the floor?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924
    after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.
    mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.
    After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924
    after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.
    mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.
    After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

    Thats kinda ridiculous why haven-t they fixed it yet? guess they got a lot of other issues and strained for time. They really need 1 dev per class who really plays.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924
    after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.
    mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.
    After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

    Thats kinda ridiculous why haven-t they fixed it yet? guess they got a lot of other issues and strained for time. They really need 1 dev per class who really plays.

    Im fairly sure its intended. Kind off like all those auto-attack chains that say cast time 1/4s or 1/2s but have much longer cast times. Shrug.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924
    after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.
    mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.
    After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

    Thats kinda ridiculous why haven-t they fixed it yet? guess they got a lot of other issues and strained for time. They really need 1 dev per class who really plays.

    and btw, most if not all skills have after-casts. Some just have it super long so its VERY noticable and annoying.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Axl.8924
    after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.
    mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.
    After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

    Thats kinda ridiculous why haven-t they fixed it yet? guess they got a lot of other issues and strained for time. They really need 1 dev per class who really plays.

    and btw, most if not all skills have after-casts. Some just have it super long so its VERY noticable and annoying.

    That kinda makes sense, as it would add counterplay.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

    this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

    this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

    I mean, at times. It works 2 ways, Ele is very rotationally based so if you just copied what a good Ele did alot you'd be 80% of the way there already. Its very easy to just Go from Fire Earth to Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Fire, Fire, Air, Earth, Water, etc etc etc Very very very easy to do.

    But also its very hard to set up your Weave Self with Earth Shield CCs, with your Gale all of which have hugely different recharges, with enough damage to force defensives prior to all this, while preventing your gameplan from being screwed up and dodging important skills etc.

    Weaver still busted though, all it takes is determined nonskillcapped players to make it work. No version of the 4 best Weaver builds is "bad" to be honest.

    I'm a well known nobody.
    Former member of [MnF], [DnT], [dP], and [Hg]. Winner of the 2018 ERP Tournament.