Do warrior and elementalist really need to be pitied upon?

Ppl in forums say that ele is trash and war is okay and you gotta l2p kite and whatnots... But these are the observations of a mid to low gold playerWarrior:1)Warr cc train hits me hard and continuously and burns up my 3 stunbreakers even if I try to run away2)Warr has nice mobility, gap closers and he can easily disengage quickly except from necros'3)Warr can insta heal and sustain is superb except against necro4)Warr have a mentality that they can jump into any mid bloodfest and come out alive killing at least 2 enemies5)Notice warr uses their high dmg skills often and often they receive less damage either with rampage or something else idk about that procs peak performance often

I'm not telling all warrs exhibit the above mentioned traits but most of them are and it really makes me think twice before engaging any warr alone 1v1 coz most of the time it's a lost cause

Elementalists:Ppl say they are not viable...Damage wise: I accept the fact that they don't inflict much damage but I noticed a few eles +1 ing fights and quickly kill with air attunement but not often but I do come across them in say 60% of fights

Bunker wise: every bunker ele I noticed can easily manage 3v1 against meele classes and I'm certain of this don't deny thisEle got some nice mobility and once they bunker on a node, it's similar to scrapper... But I notice they couldn't disengage successfully on a losing fight but scraps can stealth ondemand and disengage

Disclaimer:I know my opinions are limited to gold 2 but hey these are valid opinions... These might not apply to plat and higher

Poll is anonymous so feel free to cast it ;)

no. neither are in need of buff, some classes need nerf

Warriors were, are and will be the most unbalanced class in gw2 history in negative sense. Some people may write "wololo it's bad, low dmg, low survi, etc etc", but in reality they're just overshadowed by hot and pof powercreep, once A-net balance game properly war will be on top by default.Unlike warriors, Elementalists need to give up something to do something (that's how the game should work... but hot and pof powercreep has thrown this concept through the window), that's why you see supertanky eles (aka, guardian and teef mixed to be annoying flies) that can hold point for a long time, but do almost no damage, or build offensively but at the price of almost no defenses.

In short:Pity upon: Elementalist, since they have only currently 1 build that is barely competetive.

Warrior is fine.Ele is not. Their traitlines need more hybridization so that you have the possibility of cramming both offense and defense into a build.

Warrior is fine.Most QQ comes from people who don’t know how to fight them.

Warrior doesn’t need buffs for getting in a higher tier but needs more options.

Berzerker rework pls.

There is my recent duel with elementalist. war vs ele. basically sustain vs sustain.. just for comparison damage and survivability.

Important notice: I'm not really complain. It was friendly duel. Just for comparison.

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BTW @Crystal Paladin.3871 the reason why warriors usually jump straight to battle is because we are melee class.

@Yannir.4132 said:Their traitlines need more hybridization so that you have the possibility of cramming both offense and defense into a build.NO. That's how you create S-tier classes like boonbeast. People should choose between a defensive or offensive build, not both at the same time.

Ele needs a rework. All the buff in the world cannot fix the traitline problem in my opinion. I have no idea, therefore no opinion on warrior.

ps: The choices given above are also in need of rework. Elementalist, the one who was supposed to be a dps-mage should not be forced to play bunker if one wants to do spvp.

I'm probably (more certainty) bad at ele but i've never sustained a 3v1 in a plat game tho

And compare to the scrapper , Ele can't take a hit as Scrapper can . Most of the time you have to evade all dmg or you better insta sustain the hit you take or you're dead.

One CC with no break stun and ele is dead in 2 sec :D scrapper can survive few more seconds ahaha not like it matters anyway

@Luna.6203 said:

BTW @Crystal Paladin.3871 the reason why warriors usually jump straight to battle is because we are melee class.

It's just that... Even if they have half the health, they jump into the crowd and do their whirly swirly spinny choppy skills

They have no fear of dying coz I believe they knew that nothing can kill them quickly coz they got the necessary dmg reduction, blocks and invuln to correct any mistakes they might do ... Guardian is a meele class, rev is meele class but they don't swirly whirly inside a crowd and they play carefully when to use bubble when to run when to evade but warriors don't same goes for Holo before march5 patch now there's less holo

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

BTW @Crystal Paladin.3871 the reason why warriors usually jump straight to battle is because we are melee class.

Well warriors are just more brave. ^^We are not afraid engage people at melee range.We are not afraid duel pople in 1v1!It's psychological war. When you see determined warrior jump straight to middle of battle like I'm invincible!In worst case. We will earn our throne in Valhalla!

I keep saying this on the ele sub forum to the point where I'm probably one of the more hated people there and don't post often anymore but all ele needs is for the power creep on other classes to be brought down.

Sword is completely busted for sustain if you trick it out properly and combine it with the barrier on dodge with perma prot.

Which is a shame because there's actually a lot of fun weaver builds, tempest was second only to FB in support before the buffs yet still got buffed for no reason except the power creep train keeps on rolling. Core ele is kinda meh but that's more of a stat issue, in WvW where you can min max your stats core ele is still OK, I mean it's no facerollosmith or LULbeast but it's a capable fighter.

Ha! Lulbeast ? Funny... XD

Is that hate??? If you want to hate, hate the plasma boonbeast coz it depends on rng ... not the normal boonbeast or soulbeast plzzz coz moa, dolyak are nerfed as of march5 and booncorrupt and boonrip classes and sigils are still out there

I dont think warrior need a nerf to his damage but to his sustain especially HS

@Gundam Style.8495 said:no. neither are in need of buff, some classes need nerf

Ele needs buf warrior doesn't

@"Luna.6203" said:There is my recent duel with elementalist. war vs ele. basically sustain vs sustain.. just for comparison damage and survivability.

Important notice: I'm not really complain. It was friendly duel. Just for comparison.

https://youtu.be/1dY9boTXzNk

BTW @Crystal Paladin.3871 the reason why warriors usually jump straight to battle is because we are melee class.

You're not even dodging when you need to dodge, idk what this video is showing except your lack of skill in pvp?

Warrior is balanced, at least in sPvP. Once you know how z-axis and stealth and resets works, Warrior is the least of your problems

They don't need to be "pitied" upon but they are CERTAINLY the most balanced class of all time minus the hambow era. If you noticed, everytime Mirage and Rangers complain about Warrior, you can tell that they are already bad because those classes can fight Warrior easy because of evade spamming while doing damage baiting evades and cds with no real effort. If people are losing to a Warrior when they have z-axis and evade spam and complaining about it, they're just borderline being entitled tbh.

Yes Rampage is strong once you run out of dodges, yes a lot of Warrior skills hit hard once you run out of stun breaks, but baiting those cds and dodges vs. good players in the first place is hard because assuming you don't need to fight for a point yet, you can just run in straight line and dodge every TELEGRAPHED cc warrior has. If you dodge a Warrior's attacks, you successfully dodged something, not like Mesmer shatter where you can LEGIT dodge for nothing because it's instant cast and you can't tell if the Mesmer will shatter or not. We can't have Warrior getting nerfed because people did not want to honestly improve vs. an already honest class.

Hell, hypothetically, if someone finds out a new Warrior meta right now and it's actually OP, I won't defend it. Not like Mesmer/Ranger mains do with their already privileged class.

Once you fix your build and get used to the game (aegis spam/block spam/evade spam/blind spam/z-axis teleport) you will realize that Warrior NEEDS that high damage because ANET doesn't want to give Warrior cool things like 3 weapon swaps (And they would still be balanced even if they did have 3 weapons).

Elementalist Fresh Air would be okay too BUT the problem is bunkers hard counter it. A more damage oriented meta actually might allow Fresh Air to be decent, but having FB/scrapper AND power builds viable feels like a good change.

War needs no pitty they are ultimate alpha class only those with big donger play them.

Coming from an ele main here's the problem:

WE HAVE SO LITTLE SYNERGY IN OUR TRAITS.

Warrior can have a decent build as core and be fine. Ele? The only synergy we have seen is either water/tempest and arcane/ Weaver because it was pretty obvious those specs were made for specific traitline. So where do we put air, fire, or earth? It's a 2012 class struggling to survive PoF powercreep. It is the image that ALL classes should have taken but Anet is clearly unfair and don't wish for their precious babies to have a CHOICE like ele does after D/D was beaten into their grave.

Tdlr: Our traits are either redundant or straight garbage with high cooldowns.

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"Luna.6203" said:There is my recent duel with elementalist. war vs ele. basically sustain vs sustain.. just for comparison damage and survivability.

Important notice: I'm not really complain. It was friendly duel. Just for comparison.

https://youtu.be/1dY9boTXzNk

BTW @Crystal Paladin.3871 the reason why warriors usually jump straight to battle is because we are melee class.

Well criticism is easy. Like when your team losing and you go idle and spam chat with insults how everyone is bad and that's the reason why team losing. Because revert situation would be hard. Go afk and blame others is easy. Type like you is elite-pro in chat/forum. 100% perfect dodge. Or people are used to watch youtubers that play for dozens of hours and than they cut few minutes duels when they win to make them look like they are perfect 100% win no mistakes. But in reality everyone do mistakes in pvp all time even the hardcore players. Which i'm not. It's like fight in movie and fight in real. It's not that easy and pretty how it looks like. Duel isnt really bad. Anyway you can always show me your pro video instead. Or meet me in arena. But i know right now you will refuse because only good player would accept that. While you are good / perfect in chat.

And despite of who win you can see damage and healing capacity and that was point.

As a core warrior...naaah too stubborn for pity, despite the amount of POF spells mushroom cloud

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:Ha! Lulbeast ? Funny... XD

Is that hate??? If you want to hate, hate the plasma boonbeast coz it depends on rng ... not the normal boonbeast or soulbeast plzzz coz moa, dolyak are nerfed as of march5 and booncorrupt and boonrip classes and sigils are still out there

Reading must be hard.

Core ele is kinda meh but that's more of a stat issue, in WvW where you can min max your stats core ele is still OK, I mean it's no facerollosmith or LULbeast but it's a capable fighter.

Soulbeast is hilariously broken in WvW as none of the nerfs touched it there and dolyak stance was even buffed. Oh wait soulbeast main spotted, wasting my breath.

Ele and War dont need pity.

Ele needs a buff so damage oriented specs are more viable.Warrior needs people to stop facetanking GS 3 and autos and then complaining about it hits them too hard, in a game where half the classes can stealth or have three stunbreakers.

@Luna.6203 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Luna.6203 said:There is my recent duel with elementalist. war vs ele. basically sustain vs sustain.. just for comparison damage and survivability.

Important notice: I'm not really complain. It was friendly duel. Just for comparison.

https://youtu.be/1dY9boTXzNk

BTW @Crystal Paladin.3871 the reason why warriors usually jump straight to battle is because we are melee class.

Well, I kind of agree. Even with sage's or avatar's I usually stall warriors. Then it really depends on skill level and/or rampage (can I LoS quickly, have I saved some CD, can I afford to lose the point, stuff like that). From the pure dueling perspective a D/Sh spellbreaker is kind of even with a weaver. This changes with A/Sh, because weaver still doesn't have the damage to pressure enough while axe does significantly more damage - give it a try if you duel again. :smile:

The main difference is the pure AoE damage. If a thief +1s a warrior (or a rev, whatever), the warrior scales quite well. Landing FC is much easier, burst skills as well, proccing more Adrenal health and dealing damage to both attackers. If the burst is dodged or avoides otherwise, a warrior can actually hit back - something ele clearly lacks and still is its main disadvantage.

Duels are not the only relevant point. In the conquest setting, it's actually not very relevant at all (though, of course, to a certain level they are when it comes to class mechanics and knowing other classes).

So: Warrior seems to be fine more or less. Ele needs buffs - and before @"apharma.3741" flames me, I mean "relative buffs". Nerfing the others (in a reasonable pace) seems just less likely to me. :tongue:

Warrior needs to have it's sustain altered so that it's more potent but less general. What I mean by this is that GS3, Full counter, dodging, blocking, GS5, Rampage, and bulls Rush among others make it very easy for Warrior to evade, block, engage or retreat in any fight regardless of the type of threat it may encounter. I think Might Makes Right is a bad addition to the game in this respect as it pigeon holes the meta by giving the warrior access to copious amount of dodges. If these evades and distance closers are removed in favor of more specific damage mitigation and situation oriented movement abilities, Berserker and core can find a valid place in sPVP once again.

As far as elementalist is concerned, there is no shortage of burst damage it can currently apply. What pushes it out of the meta is the low health pool and armor paired with the disadvantage of being one of the only (mostly)well-designed classes in the game in that it's abilities are quite specifically defensive OR offensive. Players need to attune into water and use skills to recover health whereas most other classes do that while in the middle of offending the opponent. Additionally, Elementalists have their most potent heal skills having particularly long (interuptable) casts times (as it should be). What this amounts to is a class which can run around +1ing for only as long as it is not being attacked at all, or ditching all offense to be a lackluster bunker/healer.

TLDR: Warrior's defenses are too general and therefore useful. Ele's defenses and bursts are strong yet specific so it usually struggles in a team setting considering it's low HP and armor.