Cadence of Content

I just watched a very interesting video from the Game Developers Conference in 2019. (link below)

And it got me thinking a bit about some of what I feel could be improved with this game. And that is the content release schedule. Being able to stick to a release cycle, that allows your player base to incorporate it into their schedules, ends up having huge impacts on retain-ability and growth. Right now, as ludicrous as it seems to some A-Net developers, I have heard of some players sparking concerns for the player base to never even get to see the next expansion. The release schedule is a mystery to most, except a dedicated few, who can make fairly accurate guesses.

But this sense of uncertainty for the future, even given the enjoyment and fun of Guild Wars 2, still drives some players to withdraw from it. I would not be surprised in the slightest if Arena Net had attended this conference and heard this. I'm sure these ideas have circulated, but the reality of implementation has driven the narrative of resource allocation.

I wanted to post this here to give players a chance to discuss their feelings about the future of Guild Wars, and also to comment on this video's narrative, as it would apply to Guild Wars 2.

Have a great day!

Maybe you missed this?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72842/what-s-next-for-guild-wars-2/p1

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Maybe you missed this?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72842/what-s-next-for-guild-wars-2/p1

This doesnt adress his feedback.

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Maybe you missed this?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72842/what-s-next-for-guild-wars-2/p1

Thank you for sharing this. Yes, I've seen it before. But as mentioned by zealex, it is not related to my topic of discussion.

I do suggest you watch at least the first 15 minutes of the video I posted to better understand my comments, if it's not clear.

The release schedule is a mystery to most, except a dedicated few, who can make fairly accurate guesses.

Its these ppl most likely that think another expansion might happen in 2 years from now or never leaning on never.

I very much agree, it would be for the health of the game if anet invested in a stronger cadence both in quantity and in agency on the player's side on when its gonna happen so they can prepare for it.

Imo it severely hurt the game, the frankly sorry state of se4 with its multiple delays and buggy or underwhelming releases as well as poor productivity in other parts of the game.

I do want to say tho, that idk how well will w/e Chris is talking about fit into an mmo like GW2. Arpg's are inherently replayable due to their league/season formats.

Ik poe and diablo have standart leagues but not the majority has interest in these modes. Also poe is kind of a whale paradise.

Havent watched the entore thing so i might edit to add my thoughts.

Edit: The procedural generated maps and content is something i feel like is untapped potential in mmos and especially in a game like gw2 that has a setting that allows for it.

Edit: the last 20 minutes of the gdc talk are free gold basically. Insane value that any developer could use to improve their game and really shows what a consistent cadence can do for a game.

@zealex.9410 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Maybe you missed this?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72842/what-s-next-for-guild-wars-2/p1

That's true in a sense, but if you've been around long enough you already know the release cadence of content, unless you're specifically looking for an expansion pack, in which case they won't say anything until it's almost done or close to it(which is normally how'd they announce an expansion for GW2).

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Maybe you missed this?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72842/what-s-next-for-guild-wars-2/p1

Thats also not true, we dont have a cadence, we have an estimation. Theres no agency in "We'd want episodes to release in a 2-3 month period, but that doesnt mean they will, they might take 4 or even 5 months but 2-3 would be cool"

A game that looks to have a healthy and growing base will look to reassure its players that content cadence will have a plan that it will follow. Not saying mistakes and delays are out of the question but anet even in a flawless season isnt consistent enough.

Theres also the whole thing of giving players the knowledge of a content map on how/when content will release in an anual timeframe. Path of Exile is a good example of that, as well as Eso and even WoW with its rather inconsostent expansion.

On the other hand, following strict deadlines can lead to unpolished / unfinished products shipping because they are forced to. Heck, hot was quite a mess and kourma didn't fare that much better, so even if they take their time, they are bound to release before readiness.

I personally feel really good as long as the patch Tuesday every two weeks keeps adding new things, that's all the proof I need for knowing the game is alive and well.

On the other hand... do we really want a new expansion? Sure, that'll breath new life and bring players back into the game, but it'll also involve a 20+ month period of balancing of the new elite specs so they aren't overpowered compared to previous ones. Considering how long ANet takes to balance this game, wouldn't adding a third expansion ensure the futility of attempting balance?

Oh, another bullkitten "road map" thread, because apparently people need to be told when a game might become fun instead of playing and having fun now.

@"Trise.2865" said:Oh, another bullkitten "road map" thread, because apparently people need to be told when a game might become fun instead of playing and having fun now.

what if all what´s fun has been done already ?

Being able to stick to a release cycleTo avoid missing deadlines, a studio is likely to take either or both of the follow strategies:

• Extend the time-to-implementation from the vague 9-12 week cadence (recently closer to 15-16) to a "guaranteed 18 week cycle."
• Reduce the number of per-episode features, activities, collections, achievements.

Some people will like that and some will hate it. It depends on whether folks appreciate consistency more or content+features more.

@Loboling.5293 said:I do suggest you watch at least the first 15 minutes of the video I posted to better understand my comments, if it's not clear.

If you want your comments to be understood, perhaps you can rephrase. I think it's a mistake to expect people to invest 15 minutes of their time so it's easier for you to make your case.

The release schedule is a mystery to most, except a dedicated few, who can make fairly accurate guesses.I honestly don't care what the schedule is. I only care what actually ends up in game. I'd rather see more stuff released on an irregular schedule than less stuff released on a clearly articulated one.

@"Trise.2865" said:Oh, another bullkitten "road map" thread, because apparently people need to be told when a game might become fun instead of playing and having fun now.

Oh, another bullkitten i dont care about the game improving ill have fun regardless.

@Skotlex.7580 said:On the other hand, following strict deadlines can lead to unpolished / unfinished products shipping because they are forced to. Heck, hot was quite a mess and kourma didn't fare that much better, so even if they take their time, they are bound to release before readiness.

Or it leads to good finished (or largely finished with few unpolished secondary elements)

I personally feel really good as long as the patch Tuesday every two weeks keeps adding new things, that's all the proof I need for knowing the game is alive and well.

I dont really because what its adding isnt content i care for, which is ingame content.

On the other hand... do we really want a new expansion? Sure, that'll breath new life and bring players back into the game, but it'll also involve a 20+ month period of balancing of the new elite specs so they aren't overpowered compared to previous ones. Considering how long ANet takes to balance this game, wouldn't adding a third expansion ensure the futility of attempting balance?

We do, staleness is death for most games, especially mmos.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

The release schedule is a mystery to most, except a dedicated few, who can make fairly accurate guesses.I honestly don't care what the schedule is. I only care what actually ends up in game. I'd rather see more stuff released on an irregular schedule than less stuff released on a clearly articulated one.

Taking time for a product works for sp games, games that aren't live service products. Meanwhile a consistent cadence of content for live service games has been proven to lead to growth.

We know their intended schedule of 1 release every 3 months, but they weren't the best at communicating when exactly something will drop until 1 week before release. Their newfound fondness for talking to and teasing us with trailers and glimpses at the episode us however might change that :)

@Arzurag.7506 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Oh, another bullkitten "road map" thread, because apparently people need to be told when a game might become fun instead of playing and having fun now.

Then you take a break and come back later.Why would I play something now simply because of what's coming later?

Pop back into the game every month or two - if there's been a new episode you get the unlock (with a big notification). If there's been a bigger content release, a quick glance on reddit, the forums or the wiki will probably make that clear.

This game is designed to be fine to drop out of periodically (at least after they dropped the system of temp content in LS1).

There are a few base rules.The first is that no developer can create content as quick as it is experienced by the player.The second rule is that it is ready when it is ready.

One way the industry makes release schedules is by crunching. A few companies are on heavy fire about how they treat employees by using this method. I personally prefer investing my money into a company that doesnt crunch. Even if it would mean losing part of the player base potential (which I doubt), it is just the right thing to do.

We have to wait for player content and it is impossible to tell for how long. That is not a big deal. It arrives when it arrives and I have never been dissattisfied by the content.

What are you talking about?The gem store is getting updated constantly. Thats content lol.

A little surprised to see this crop up here. OK, so cadence of content is one thing, but just having it released at a particular time isn't the only reason Path of Exile has been doing well lately. A lot of it is owed to the type of game it is, and the players and competitors it has to work with in its genre.

• Firstly, PoE's "leagues" completely reset the playing board. This concept came from Diablo 2 and potentially other games before it; because they're based around making your character as powerful as possible, the gear is a lot more important than it is in GW2. When everyone can start from zero regularly, the game lends itself to pre-determined "seasons" much like real-world sport. PoE's primary contribution to the genre is offering a different experience each season, which makes it worth coming back over and over if you like the game at a basic level. GW2, on the other hand, cannot offer a fresh experience every 3 months because it's not the kind of game that players will happily restart every 3 months.
• Secondly, PoE's engine has been built from the ground up to procedurally generate content. It's also not very story-heavy, so gameplay is mostly focussed on combat. This means it's possible for GGG's developers to create content much, much faster than ANet can; there are fewer elements to bring together outside of what the terrain generator does automatically.

I don't doubt that there are many valuable insights to be found in the example of PoE, but it certainly isn't as simple as releasing every 3 months on the dot and watch the players roll in. As you'll see towards the end of the panel, a lot of what brings people aboard is the content they have to look forward to. I'll note that GGG has called the last 6 releases full-blown "expansions", and they certainly have significantly changed the game each time. If ANet could release regular expansions the size of Path of Fire every 3 months, they'd be picking up players fast too. But that's just not realistic with the current content model.

Anyway, I'll put the skepticism aside for a moment, because there is one element where I think ANet could reasonably improve, and that's the type of content being released. With each league, GGG tries to offer something for everyone - for the people who like to experience new areas and environments, meet new characters, fight new and challenging enemies, create new character builds they've never tried before, craft powerful items, or just plain get filthy rich. And probably a few more besides.

ANet's most publicized releases focus just on new story chapters. That appeals to people who are enjoying the story, but if that's not one of the things you like about GW2, that alone won't keep you coming back. So rather than taking a "when it's done" approach for the rest of the content they're working on, I think it wouldn't hurt to throw little extras in for the other players as well. The ones who like world bosses, and raids, and fractals, and PvP, and WvW, and the all-important fashion wars.

(You may note they're already doing a little bit of this: each chapter so far has come with a new legendary weapon. But maybe focussing on something more accessible, and that offers more than just one item which players either like or don't, might be a better strategy for LS5.)

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@Arzurag.7506 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Oh, another bullkitten "road map" thread, because apparently people need to be told when a game might become fun instead of playing and having fun now.

I think the whole idea about being ok to leave and come back means that its without the penalty of having to play catchup with outdated gear.

If I leave for 3 months and come back to find out we are still on the same LS episode that means the releases are too slow.

These are 2 very different definitions.

I think there is an underestimated Reason for why they wouldn't mention a future expansion, and that is a Design issue.

What exactly would be the big mechanic for the next expansion about ? Gliding and mounts alter how we move around the world in a very deep and significant way, what Else could they add on that level that would fit within the game ?If it's not about the game's movement, and is about combat instead, how would they implement it without Breaking all balance ?

As long as they cannot answer these questions, an expansion as we know it cannot get started. They are indeed more than just elite specs and stories and maps, they also implement a very different Mastery system and often a deep new mechanic

@Klipso.8653 said:

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@Arzurag.7506 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Oh, another bullkitten "road map" thread, because apparently people need to be told when a game might become fun instead of playing and having fun now.

Rate of release isn't really part of the question about the game being designed to be ok to come and go.

The design however does present a sollution to those players that experience the rate of release as too slow (perfectly valid experience, the border between "ok" and "too slow" is highly individual) - take a break, try something else, come back later when there's new things.

I wonder if Anet has changed enough in the past 6-7 years to take advice from someone whom they famously banned at launch, when streaming was still an obscure oddity of gamer culture. I can't help but feel that the incident may have created a butterfly effect for the game.

There are merits in seeing what PoE does right but it's still a very different game. PoE is an online Lobby looter (Diablo-clone) with rpg elements, while GW2 is a theme-park MMOrpg. It's safe to assume this distinction affects the release schedule by default.

That said, in my opinion, GW2 is in need of both a tighter schedule and a roadmap. While the first is possible (like LS1 and 2) I have my doubts it will happen. And I think they can't provide the latter (roadmap) at all. February created a very volatile environment and, usually, creative businesses get a bit of "tunnel-vision" from events like this. My guess is that they are all in on LS5 and the way things go this year will decide what happens next.

Yes, this game's design allows you to take a break during the 3,5 - 4 months between releases, without missing much. That doesn't mean Anet wants you to do that. An mmo lives and dies by its active player numbers and the ones on a break obviously won't be buying anything from the cash store. Their recent promotional push aimed, among other things, to get players to return, is no coincidence.