no downstate week shows how depressing balance is

burst builds showing even more how depressing balance is atm

K.

Elaborate?

@Ben K.6238 said:K.

Elaborate?

now u stand somewhere and get bursted in 2 sec without even a chance of a team mate rezz u up.

it feels like the game took away one feature for the sake of be more in order what WOW player are used too. I simply cant see where no downstate enhances fun as well.and by taking downstate away u noticed more how fast u fall from 100% health to 0.I say this as a guardian with a weak downstate in compare to other classes

Ah, the joys of "No Downstate Week," or as it is often called: "Engineer Downstate Week."

Yeye, lets go back to ressing handicap and roaming in groups of XX people.What this week shown to me? Honestly, how bad some people are. Doing 1v3, 1v5, even 1v8 was possible, picking people one by one and showing how bad they are on personal level. This week reminded me of old WotLK or Cata (WoW expansions) times where if you were good enough you could manage outnumbered fights thanks to macros, switching targets and making good use of CCs. This way WvW is so much more fun, especially roaming, you dont have to run immeadietly while 1v1ing when you see 2 or 3 more enemies coming, you can just quickly finish the first one and switch to others.

Powercreep intensifies? It will exist, no matter if theres No Downstate Week or theres not. Only thing that changes is how many times you died instead of going down and getting handicapped by allies during this week. Speaking of myself I didn't see any difference between this week and any other while comparing how many times I died (mostly solo-roamer speaking). But I see a difference in the numbers of how many 3+ groups I've defeated solo. While PvP downstate should stay (sometimes it helps, sometimes its a disadvantage), I would love to see WvW mode without downedstate.

tl;dr - > If you die too much during No Downstate Week then you should find more people to defend your pretty boo...back, because it seems like X [here insert proper number] is not enough.

@Widmo.3186 said:Yeye, lets go back to ressing handicap and roaming in groups of XX people.What this week shown to me? Honestly, how bad some people are. Doing 1v3, 1v5, even 1v8 was possible, picking people one by one and showing how bad they are on personal level. This week reminded me of old WotLK or Cata (WoW expansions) times where if you were good enough you could manage outnumbered fights thanks to macros, switching targets and making good use of CCs. This way WvW is so much more fun, especially roaming, you dont have to run immeadietly while 1v1ing when you see 2 or 3 more enemies coming, you can just quickly finish the first one and switch to others.

Powercreep intensifies? It will exist, no matter if theres No Downstate Week or theres not. Only thing that changes is how many times you died instead of going down and getting handicapped by allies during this week. Speaking of myself I didn't see any difference between this week and any other while comparing how many times I died (mostly solo-roamer speaking). But I see a difference in the numbers of how many 3+ groups I've defeated solo. While PvP downstate should stay (sometimes it helps, sometimes its a disadvantage), I would love to see WvW mode without downedstate.

tl;dr - > If you die too much during No Downstate Week then you should find more people to defend your pretty boo...back, because it seems like X [here insert proper number] is not enough.

I can't give this enough thumbs up. This is what ive always said since the first No Downstate. Those that need help to survive are revealed. Its a good event to check your skills and builds.

@"Balsa.3951" said:burst builds showing even more how depressing balance is atm

I am an Elementalist that use both roaming build (x2) and obviously a blob build. When I am in my roaming build, I usually can take a thief and a SB down if 2v1 unless if they 3/4/v1 me with the "pewpew". If in a blob I usually stand by the commander, so rangers cant affect me, though I see people generally panic and move away from comm, as if that will help them sustain. I dont know if its your build, your position or both, but if you die that quickly I would probably start to change build a little bit to match minstrel/roaming build (if you roam a lot) or simply stand directly on commander.

The only reason that rangers can pick you out, is because you make the mistake of moving away from the commander because of panic from no res, or else the whole comment section would be less about thiefs/rangers and more about how useless they really are in these situations.

~(obviously numbers matter, if only 2-5 stand on commander in a 40-blob and rest is easy to pick on, standing on comm will not work that well either)

@Widmo.3186 said:Yeye, lets go back to ressing handicap and roaming in groups of XX people.What this week shown to me? Honestly, how bad some people are. Doing 1v3, 1v5, even 1v8 was possible, picking people one by one and showing how bad they are on personal level. This week reminded me of old WotLK or Cata (WoW expansions) times where if you were good enough you could manage outnumbered fights thanks to macros, switching targets and making good use of CCs. This way WvW is so much more fun, especially roaming, you dont have to run immeadietly while 1v1ing when you see 2 or 3 more enemies coming, you can just quickly finish the first one and switch to others.

Powercreep intensifies? It will exist, no matter if theres No Downstate Week or theres not. Only thing that changes is how many times you died instead of going down and getting handicapped by allies during this week. Speaking of myself I didn't see any difference between this week and any other while comparing how many times I died (mostly solo-roamer speaking). But I see a difference in the numbers of how many 3+ groups I've defeated solo. While PvP downstate should stay (sometimes it helps, sometimes its a disadvantage), I would love to see WvW mode without downedstate.

tl;dr - > If you die too much during No Downstate Week then you should find more people to defend your pretty boo...back, because it seems like X [here insert proper number] is not enough.

i roam solo and im not on an ego trip only see my disadvantages i also see those who i burst down. I see downstate as a part of game play.

Even a tactic when 1v x and ppl try to rezz and i get free cleaves.

i make this post in the hope anet dont go the lazy way and thinks taking a game mechanic away is new game play

No downstate does a great job of highlighting the importance of team comps and tailored builds. A two-person DPS+Support team can wreck a larger group of unorganized pugs. If that two-person team is skilled and running great builds, it's a slaughter.

Down state helps a larger, unorganized force deal with a smaller, organized, skilled group. It's frustrating to have skill trumped by numbers, but in some ways that's good. Not everyone has the time/ability/resources to be in an organized small-team group. It's easy to find large team groups, but not small.

Pugs were just getting spawn-wrecked by a small guild the other night (myself included). I switched to a support class with no damage and the fights became more balanced and competitive. The guild group still won more than they lost, but it wasn't a train wreck like before. They were forced to retreat often, and died a third of the time.

@"Widmo.3186" said:Yeye, lets go back to ressing handicap and roaming in groups of XX people.What this week shown to me? Honestly, how bad some people are. Doing 1v3, 1v5, even 1v8 was possible, picking people one by one and showing how bad they are on personal level. This week reminded me of old WotLK or Cata (WoW expansions) times where if you were good enough you could manage outnumbered fights thanks to macros, switching targets and making good use of CCs. This way WvW is so much more fun, especially roaming, you dont have to run immeadietly while 1v1ing when you see 2 or 3 more enemies coming, you can just quickly finish the first one and switch to others.

Powercreep intensifies? It will exist, no matter if theres No Downstate Week or theres not. Only thing that changes is how many times you died instead of going down and getting handicapped by allies during this week. Speaking of myself I didn't see any difference between this week and any other while comparing how many times I died (mostly solo-roamer speaking). But I see a difference in the numbers of how many 3+ groups I've defeated solo. While PvP downstate should stay (sometimes it helps, sometimes its a disadvantage), I would love to see WvW mode without downedstate.

tl;dr - > If you die too much during No Downstate Week then you should find more people to defend your pretty boo...back, because it seems like X [here insert proper number] is not enough.

OK! I got it. You are the God of PVP and finally you had now the oportunity to let the other to find this. Got it! Congratulations. BUT .......

Doing 1v3, 1v5, even 1v8 was possible, picking people one by one and showing how bad they are on personal level. Well, this shows not how bad some players are at a personal level, but how broken are some builds in this game. Doing 1 vs 8 should be absolutely impossible here, no matter how bad are the opponents. Except if you use a broken build =). And this makes the relevance of the opponents skill ..... irrelevant =). And raises the old problem of balancing.

This week reminded me of old WotLK or Cata (WoW expansions) times where if you were good enough you could manage outnumbered fights thanks to macros, switching targets and making good use of CCs. Exactly!! And this is exactly why this "No downstate week" is something not on the GW2 players liking. Yes, it may please the WoW players. But, you know, this is not WoW. And the part with the macros is brilliant =). Are you sure that when you migrated from WoW to GW2 you left your macros in WoW?

This way WvW is so much more fun - why are you playing GW2? Your post is more appropriate on the WoW forums. If you like WoW so much, then why force yourself to play GW2?

Powercreep week

@Balsa.3951 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:K.

Elaborate?

It's never fun to be on the receiving end of that damage. But at least the person that downed you had fun.And I don't think it's great you need to rely on the player next to you just because you cannot dodge the damage.. Bunker up if you do not want to be down all the time.

@"Cristalyan.5728" said:

This way WvW is so much more fun - why are you playing GW2? Your post is more appropriate on the WoW forums. If you like WoW so much, then why force yourself to play GW2?

Because i stopped playing WoW the moment when Blizzard burned everything that I (and many other people) loved in PvP deep to the ground. The best example is current state of MM Hunter that needs to stand in one place to deal any kind of damage. Never said that I force myself to play GW2, dont overinterpret my comment.

This week reminded me of old WotLK or CataYou see that? old here means its gone. Some private servers are still up but that's not the same :)Are you sure that when you migrated from WoW to GW2 you left your macros in WoW?Yes, I know few people that uses macros on freshair and zerk mesmer, but I dont play any of those builds atm. Anyway, macros are illegal in gw2, arent they?Except if you use a broken buildUp to 1v4 or something around that I used Weaver this week. Anything beyond that was s/d core teef. Yes teef. Overpowered to hell and back, broken and easiest to play class that should be deleted from game.

Dont get me wrong, its not about ego or being god of pvp, used to be in top, but I switched from pvp to wvw. Its about how smooth the gameplay is. I just wonder how many times i downed 1 or 2 people in outnumbered fight and couldnt finish them because I was on CDs and 3rd enemy rezzed them up. Just rolled my eyes, thought "here we go again" and spent another 10 minutes to get them downed again and again, eventually maybe they died.And that is my opinion, maybe bit cruel, but honest.

@Balsa.3951 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:K.

Elaborate?

So you stood there for 2 seconds face tanking a burst? GW2 is not like lots of other MMO where defenses are based on passive stats for evades or blocks, rather they are active defenses. That means you have to be aware and ready to react, if you are not then you should be in spawn until you are ready.

What you are saying here is how unaware you are and you are now noticing your short comings without downed state and larger numbers to rezz you. So you are a guard in group play, yet everyone else is having to support and carry you.

What class bursted you? What is your build? How much HP and defense? What skills did they use and how much dmg? Why didn't you dodge?

@Balsa.3951 said:burst builds showing even more how depressing balance is atm

Twas ever thus.

GW2 SHOULD be remembered as having an absolutely terrible combat system. I find it ironic that the consensus will be the opposite.

time to kill makes no down state bad. its ttk's fault not the other way around.

No downstate is the only thing that's brought me back to the game mode since mounts were introduced. If you want to play in a PvP mode, build your character for PvP fights.

It'd be fine is skill balance was better (ie, existed)

But that's not really a strike against no downed state. Being able to res is merely a bandaid solution. Zerg fights are mostly the same while small scale has always been lame; but that's what mounts are for?

HOT and POF only focus on power not survivalbility what do u expect?

While i would have to agree that roaming is more fun with no down state, getting sniped out of a zerg by 1 shot builds really makes the game a lot worse. No amount of party support or player skill can stop some of the burst combos certain classes can pull off with minimal effort. Fighting clouds of these builds is already bad enough during a regular week.

@Limodriver.4106 said:HOT and POF only focus on power not survivalbility what do u expect?

Did you read what you typed?

Firebrand? Scrapper? Tempest? Druid?

There's an overkill of survivability, just like there's an overkill of power. What's changed is that there are more define roles (or builds for those roles).

Somewhere in that mix is the power creep -- probably to compensate for having a dedicated healer role. I mentioned in another post that a skilled 2-person support+dps team wiped 10 pugs easily.... until the pugs got their own healer.

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:While i would have to agree that roaming is more fun with no down state, getting sniped out of a zerg by 1 shot builds really makes the game a lot worse. No amount of party support or player skill can stop some of the burst combos certain classes can pull off with minimal effort. Fighting clouds of these builds is already bad enough during a regular week.

It's only a few builds that can do this without risking their own life. You basically need range, fast, high damage, unblockable+piercing (there's so much projectile hate in a zerg), stealth and disengage. If they annoy a zerg too much and get IC mounts might hunt them down anyway. And for a zerg it takes little time to get one up from being dead. Also it's only half as bad if you pay attention and stay close to your group.

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:While i would have to agree that roaming is more fun with no down state, getting sniped out of a zerg by 1 shot builds really makes the game a lot worse. No amount of party support or player skill can stop some of the burst combos certain classes can pull off with minimal effort. Fighting clouds of these builds is already bad enough during a regular week.

Support roles can definitely stop a burst combo -- your FB was probably sleeping at the wheel, or you didn't have one in your party.

@juno.1840 said:Support roles can definitely stop a burst combo -- your FB was probably sleeping at the wheel, or you didn't have one in your party.

Some burst combos (soulbeast/power mesmer) can down you in around half a second or less from range, dealing well over 30k damage. The amount of healing you receive in half a second is typically not enough to out heal that much damage, even with scrappers and fb constant healing spam. Damage mitigation from sources like protection, aegis, fb toughness buffs etc are the only real support that will save you, and when playing a squishy ele or necro its often not enough. A competent player playing a 1 shot build can just wait until they see you get corrupted or out of position, and use their burst when you are vulnerable.

Yes supports in your party can prevent many gank attempts on you, but with the current level of damage individuals can dish out, glassy zerg builds are always at risk of getting blown up or picked off, and no downed state makes this much worse.

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@juno.1840 said:Support roles can definitely stop a burst combo -- your FB was probably sleeping at the wheel, or you didn't have one in your party.

Why is it perfectly ok to be on a 'glassy zerg build', dealing out over 10k hits to 5 people at a time, but it's not ok for you to pay for being 'out of position' or not dodging? You don't get to sit in a zerg and be perfectly safe from some random that is risking your entire zerg chasing them down. The entire point of having the zerg around you is to help you if you're out of dodges isn't it?

I'll answer my own question. The zerg isn't there to help you before you down. The zerg is there to pick you up, (i'm saying you but me too when I zerg), when you've failed to survive. And that's an issue for some players. I want to see people focused on keeping their team ALIVE, not traited and utilitied to nullify their mistake when theyve already failed.