Warclaw reflections by a total wvw noob for other total wvw noobs — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Warclaw reflections by a total wvw noob for other total wvw noobs

EmmetOtter.8542EmmetOtter.8542 Member ✭✭✭

Not having the warclaw sucks! You can't keep up with the group and if you do arrive while there's fighting, its usually right when a fight has nearly ended. And getting left behind makes you easy prey for every mounted enemy on the map.

To anyone new to wvw all I can say is: don't give up, keep chasing the zerg, your persistence and patience will pay off. You are paying your dues.

I played a f-ton of wvw this weekend and got everything I needed for the warclaw. Buy PoF (its on sale and you get HoT free now!), put a point in the warclaw wvw mastery, select the warclaw reward track, and be persistent. Every thing just comes down to time played + persistence + patience.

Make sure you touch every guild buff, chow down some xp food and use those xp boosters that Anet gives out all the time. If you've been smart you've been saving those "useless" wvw ones for days like these. And then... join a map. Doesn't really matter which one. Don't see any commanders to tag up and join squad on one map, switch to a different map (use the waypoint) and then another, etc... Ask in /team and /map if there is a squad to join and where everyone is headed. Ask for a discord link (even if you can't talk, you can listen) .Let them know you're new. Once you get in a group, get your cardio on! Do that marathon run from the waypoint to where ever the zerg seems to be going. As long as you're active in some small way you're going to get reward track xp and even when you're late, your often getting credit and loot.

And eventually, you'll get your warclaw.

Comments

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be honest you'd be more successful doing things on your own than following mounted commanders. Flipping objectives requires 3-5 people (can be done with less, but becomes obnoxious when you have to rerun for supplies) and you can even do most of them on eotm because those never get defended.

    Reward track takes 4-5 hours of doing pve stuff (killing guards, sentries etc) with boosters. You can also hope that your server owns SM and enemy has some attackers for some free participation.

    Getting warclaw is easier than most new people would think. Even pve masteries require more grind.

    Deso's favorite FROG
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    Froggo himself

  • if you are a new player just ask in /m for help with whatever youre working on. sure, therell be some memes but 90% of the time someone with a lot more skill in wvw than you will help. i think that's a big point the pve mupps miss, wvw is a very team orientated gamemode, if you with us you with us, someone will help.

    Alliances were announced on the 2nd of February 2018

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only thing that is even remotely hard is the capping of a keep. Which is quite easy if you go to eotm and find a comm, or during the early morning where a keep is likely to be flipped. You can literally do all stuff for the warclaw with 3-5 people.

  • @Caedmon.6798 said:
    Be sure to find that tag because you can't do anything else in wvw without one !

    To be fair
    The current players in WvW are not exactly 'newguyfriendly' or 'solo guyfriendly'

  • @Infusion.7149 said:
    The above topic is why warclaw should not have been added , especially on Alpine BL. New players just can't keep up, whereas desert BL has the shrine jump pad things at least.

    It took 15 minutes of easy game play to get a raptor. It took 10 hours of less easy game play to get a warclaw. If you want to make an argument about things that seems like a good place to start. Even chasing the zerg, I was still kind of part of it. And yeah, maybe there was a faster way for me to solo it, but I didn't join something that is supposed to be about Large Scale, Epic PvP clashes to run around the world by myself for a bunch of hours. The game's scenery isn't that interesting.

    This is coming from a gw2 noob with way less than 1 week of exposure to wvw and 6-7 months of total game time in gw2 so you can take it with a grain of salt... but I did enjoy a fair bit of pvp in other MMO's, I do feel like I can offer some valid experience overall.

    • PVP should be fluid, exciting and challenging and gw2 has that in small scale.
    • Large scale PVP should be gaming sessions with epic battles, lots of them, with numerous small scale skirmishes in between every epic clash. That barely describes my wvw experience with the warclaw.

    Without the warclaw, there is simply too much open space and not enough bodies to fill it, even NPC bodies, to make it feel epic. I doubt that tripling the wvw population would make that much of a difference. Maybe it was good enough 6 years ago, but gamers are now watching pro's rip through each other and talking about their Actions Per Minute metrics and naturally gravitating to faster and faster paced pvp games. Case in point: 2 months ago I watched an Overwatch match on comcast cable with my 72-year old father-in-law and he was captivated by it. And so was I.

    Even though WvW should be more like Chess than Overwatch, it shouldn't be like chess in an arthritis-riddled body where you know what to do in an instant but its an ordeal to just move the pawn 2 squares. At least with the warclaw its just chess and not arthritic-chess.

    The warclaw is probably saving wvw from irrelevance.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    anet should introduce, rent a mount in wvw.

    This ^^^^^.

    Failing that also consider anyone that might be able to share swiftness with you as you go. Soulbeast rangers running the bird can help keep someone moving along nicely. Map shoutouts sometimes can get you there with a helpful servermate.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
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  • ^ rent a warclaw is a good idea but if it's only at spawn from the warclaw tender , how would people get from say a keep to the bottom of the map if they're red on desert BL?

    In addition until someone reaches rank 36 they won't be able to use the third warclaw leap (which was another bad idea from the start) let alone finish downed with battle maul. Add 60 points from war gliding lean and it's up to rank 96 just to have decent WvW mobility (1186 for all masteries in WvW).

    EmmetOtter, a lot of that has to do with timezone coverage and what server you're on. If you're not part of a WvW guild or your server community it is difficult to grasp what is going on because many times people are invis tagged or whatnot.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    ^ rent a warclaw is a good idea but if it's only at spawn from the warclaw tender , how would people get from say a keep to the bottom of the map if they're red on desert BL?

    How about it simply gives you a buff that allows you to mount/dismount as you please for a set amount of time. Like 50 silver for a buff like birthday/food buff that lasts 2 hours and gives you full access to the warclaw. Points spent in mastery would still be needed.

    In addition until someone reaches rank 36 they won't be able to use the third warclaw leap (which was another bad idea from the start) let alone finish downed with battle maul. Add 60 points from war gliding lean and it's up to rank 96 just to have decent WvW mobility (1186 for all masteries in WvW).

    Yea they've really backed themselves into a corner. Sometimes I like to imagine a WvW event with no mounts and no gliding. But I think that would be a bad idea. I"m not sure I could play 7 days of bliss and then go back to... this.
    Because you're right these two masteries give players such a colossal advantage that new players are looking at weeks of grind before they find themselves on even footing with older players.

    Now that I think about it, someone should make a thread on just how inaccessible WvW is to new players.

  • EmmetOtter.8542EmmetOtter.8542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    EmmetOtter, a lot of that has to do with timezone coverage and what server you're on. If you're not part of a WvW guild or your server community it is difficult to grasp what is going on because many times people are invis tagged or whatnot.

    I'm not even sure how you could have pulled that from anything I wrote.

    You made a very specific statement that the warclaw was a bad thing when all it changes is how fast you, and everyone else, move from point A to B. If that feature had not been added and wvw kept as it was, wvw would move at a pace that simply has no business existing in today's gaming and would be unappealing to new players. It would have ceased to be relevant in this modern world. Your statement essentially advocated for the return to a 20mph speed limit in a world that goes 75 today and tomorrow will want to go faster.

    If you're issue isn't with the introduction of the warclaw but with the time gating and massive # of wvw points required to max it out, I won't argue against that. The effort does seem completely out-of-proportion with the pve mounts.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    The only thing that is even remotely hard is the capping of a keep. Which is quite easy if you go to eotm and find a comm, or during the early morning where a keep is likely to be flipped. You can literally do all stuff for the warclaw with 3-5 people.

    nobody plays EoTM anymore

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    The warclaw is probably hard to get for those that enter wvw to get a mount, but not something anywhere near out of reach for those who enter wvw for the pleasure of playing the gamemode itself, an open world pvp area where you complete objectives for your server, roam, duel, fight against other players, learn some new stuff about your profession, participate in large scale pvp fights and so on. And yeah, you can do all that stuff without using a mount, some of it probably not in the same amount as after getting it, but wvw is filled with al that I've listed above. It's just a matter of what are you there for.

  • @NuhDah.9812 said:
    The warclaw is probably hard to get for those that enter wvw to get a mount, but not something anywhere near out of reach for those who enter wvw for the pleasure of playing the gamemode itself, an open world pvp area where you complete objectives for your server, roam, duel, fight against other players, learn some new stuff about your profession, participate in large scale pvp fights and so on. And yeah, you can do all that stuff without using a mount, some of it probably not in the same amount as after getting it, but wvw is filled with al that I've listed above. It's just a matter of what are you there for.

    As a frequenter of WvW (bordering on a the beginner stages of a vet), I stash my WvW pots (have about 3 stacksish) for special events/reward tracks such as that,. Really helped speed up the process to get that mount tho.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:
    The warclaw is probably hard to get for those that enter wvw to get a mount, but not something anywhere near out of reach for those who enter wvw for the pleasure of playing the gamemode itself, an open world pvp area where you complete objectives for your server, roam, duel, fight against other players, learn some new stuff about your profession, participate in large scale pvp fights and so on. And yeah, you can do all that stuff without using a mount, some of it probably not in the same amount as after getting it, but wvw is filled with al that I've listed above. It's just a matter of what are you there for.

    As a frequenter of WvW (bordering on a the beginner stages of a vet), I stash my WvW pots (have about 3 stacksish) for special events/reward tracks such as that,. Really helped speed up the process to get that mount tho.

    cough false modesty cough

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    @NuhDah.9812 said:
    The warclaw is probably hard to get for those that enter wvw to get a mount, but not something anywhere near out of reach for those who enter wvw for the pleasure of playing the gamemode itself, an open world pvp area where you complete objectives for your server, roam, duel, fight against other players, learn some new stuff about your profession, participate in large scale pvp fights and so on. And yeah, you can do all that stuff without using a mount, some of it probably not in the same amount as after getting it, but wvw is filled with al that I've listed above. It's just a matter of what are you there for.

    Sure. But why is there a need for even a very short grind at the start to get to the level of other players? There is really no need for this and it can only deter new players that don't know anything about the mode and all the stuff you listed. At least I don't see the benefit, only downside.
    There is nothing fresh or extra fun in the obtaining of Warclaw. It is just everyday's business with extra annoyance if everyone else has it and you don't.

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:
    The warclaw is probably hard to get for those that enter wvw to get a mount, but not something anywhere near out of reach for those who enter wvw for the pleasure of playing the gamemode itself, an open world pvp area where you complete objectives for your server, roam, duel, fight against other players, learn some new stuff about your profession, participate in large scale pvp fights and so on. And yeah, you can do all that stuff without using a mount, some of it probably not in the same amount as after getting it, but wvw is filled with al that I've listed above. It's just a matter of what are you there for.

    As a frequenter of WvW (bordering on a the beginner stages of a vet), I stash my WvW pots (have about 3 stacksish) for special events/reward tracks such as that,. Really helped speed up the process to get that mount tho.

    cough false modesty cough

    First time I ever stated that so dang right lol

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cuks.8241 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:
    The warclaw is probably hard to get for those that enter wvw to get a mount, but not something anywhere near out of reach for those who enter wvw for the pleasure of playing the gamemode itself, an open world pvp area where you complete objectives for your server, roam, duel, fight against other players, learn some new stuff about your profession, participate in large scale pvp fights and so on. And yeah, you can do all that stuff without using a mount, some of it probably not in the same amount as after getting it, but wvw is filled with al that I've listed above. It's just a matter of what are you there for.

    Sure. But why is there a need for even a very short grind at the start to get to the level of other players? There is really no need for this and it can only deter new players that don't know anything about the mode and all the stuff you listed. At least I don't see the benefit, only downside.
    There is nothing fresh or extra fun in the obtaining of Warclaw. It is just everyday's business with extra annoyance if everyone else has it and you don't.

    Well if you take it as some form of progression in the game mode it doesn't take that much time. Gw2 doesn't have much of any gear progression in the pvp modes, so as soon as you get ascended gear from whatever sources are easier for you, and slot the wvw infusions, you're practically done with gear progression. Then the wvw "masteries" remain, warclaw being part of it. It's one of the bigger progression steps, but it gives you something to aim for if you've just started, also having you pass through most of the basic stuff you'll encounter in wvw.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    Well I don't really want progression in pvp mode but that is just opinion. Some like it some don't. And it is a mmorpg, some progression is expected and already in the game. But you aren't getting much advantage with WvW ranks, not something that a new player will really feel and nowhere close to Warclaw. I mean it is even hard if not impossible to keep up with the group. I imagine that just sucks for new player. I genuinely feel bad for players that are left in the dust on foot.
    Usually progression is tied to some new activities. For example in pve you progress through quests, events, dungeons,... Obtaining Warclaw is just regular WvW with added annoyance. It is like you are a newbie basketball player and you want to join a veteran group of players. They say, sure join we always welcome new players but you have to play the first 10 matches barefoot. Doesn't really sound like a nice welcome, more like a straight kitten you.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    Well I don't really want progression in pvp mode but that is just opinion. Some like it some don't. And it is a mmorpg, some progression is expected and already in the game. But you aren't getting much advantage with WvW ranks, not something that a new player will really feel and nowhere close to Warclaw. I mean it is even hard if not impossible to keep up with the group. I imagine that just sucks for new player. I genuinely feel bad for players that are left in the dust on foot.
    Usually progression is tied to some new activities. For example in pve you progress through quests, events, dungeons,... Obtaining Warclaw is just regular WvW with added annoyance. It is like you are a newbie basketball player and you want to join a veteran group of players. They say, sure join we always welcome new players but you have to play the first 10 matches barefoot. Doesn't really sound like a nice welcome, more like a straight kitten you.

    It’s a reward track... some achievements... and ONE bloody WvW rank to get the mount....

    And.., capping the keep us one of the hardest things., and it’s been pointed out multiple times how easy it is and when to get it.

    It is only hard if someone hates doing it. If that’s the case? Too young cat bad.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @EmmetOtter.8542 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    EmmetOtter, a lot of that has to do with timezone coverage and what server you're on. If you're not part of a WvW guild or your server community it is difficult to grasp what is going on because many times people are invis tagged or whatnot.

    I'm not even sure how you could have pulled that from anything I wrote.

    You made a very specific statement that the warclaw was a bad thing when all it changes is how fast you, and everyone else, move from point A to B. If that feature had not been added and wvw kept as it was, wvw would move at a pace that simply has no business existing in today's gaming and would be unappealing to new players. It would have ceased to be relevant in this modern world. Your statement essentially advocated for the return to a 20mph speed limit in a world that goes 75 today and tomorrow will want to go faster.

    If you're issue isn't with the introduction of the warclaw but with the time gating and massive # of wvw points required to max it out, I won't argue against that. The effort does seem completely out-of-proportion with the pve mounts.

    Your comment is that without the warclaw (which we did not have at launch and for years) that the combat is too slow and that there's "too much space". It's the same view that brought the powercreep that we have today. An **even faster ** pace is only suited to younger people with low attention span : WvW never was an esport and only player-made GvGs in EOTM/Obsidian Sanctum with player limits are actually suited for an audience. The game already slows down in EBG with 3 map blobs (server side and clientside), so an even faster pace is a terrible idea (see Desert BL introduction with the lagfest laser event).

    It (warclaw) already disincentives flipping T3 keeps since the defending team can just run back (warclaw is faster on owned territory) and people just run from fights with triple leaps. When it was first released it was also super unbalanced to the point people were just using multi-player instakills with Battle Maul instead of fighting. If you played WvW when we had bunker meta or hammer train , people didn't vaporize to ranged AoE as much and zerg-busting / havoc was more common.

    My issue with the warclaw is mainly that it creates a barrier for new players , not just that it basically killed roaming and disincentives attacking tiered keep on alpine BL. It also makes alpine borderlands play a lot different than at launch. Unlike desert BL there is strategic value in holding towers since you can treb the keeps from them and the time from spawn to the Bay (western) and Hills (eastern) keeps is necessary to delay defense response. When warclaw was brand new , the entire week my server would help PvE players get the warclaw and leave WvW. That doesn't happen much now so if a new player is on a server where the matchup is poor and keeps aren't being flipped, that's a problem. It's especially a problem if the person is just there for the mount.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    Well I don't really want progression in pvp mode but that is just opinion. Some like it some don't. And it is a mmorpg, some progression is expected and already in the game. But you aren't getting much advantage with WvW ranks, not something that a new player will really feel and nowhere close to Warclaw. I mean it is even hard if not impossible to keep up with the group. I imagine that just sucks for new player. I genuinely feel bad for players that are left in the dust on foot.
    Usually progression is tied to some new activities. For example in pve you progress through quests, events, dungeons,... Obtaining Warclaw is just regular WvW with added annoyance. It is like you are a newbie basketball player and you want to join a veteran group of players. They say, sure join we always welcome new players but you have to play the first 10 matches barefoot. Doesn't really sound like a nice welcome, more like a straight kitten you.

    It’s a reward track... some achievements... and ONE bloody WvW rank to get the mount....

    And.., capping the keep us one of the hardest things., and it’s been pointed out multiple times how easy it is and when to get it.

    It is only hard if someone hates doing it. If that’s the case? Too young cat bad.

    WvW is bleeding players. Is it really a good idea to lock an ESSENTIAL tool behind any sort of grind wall. People who come into WvW to give it a try should be on a level footing immediately. Maybe then they might actually enjoy themselves and perhaps stay. Or invite their PvE friends to give it a try. But I promise you, no PvE player is going to stay or recommend the mode to friends when they spend their first few hours getting chased down by groups of giant cats because they were left behind by their allies, who were also riding giant cats.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    Well I don't really want progression in pvp mode but that is just opinion. Some like it some don't. And it is a mmorpg, some progression is expected and already in the game. But you aren't getting much advantage with WvW ranks, not something that a new player will really feel and nowhere close to Warclaw. I mean it is even hard if not impossible to keep up with the group. I imagine that just sucks for new player. I genuinely feel bad for players that are left in the dust on foot.
    Usually progression is tied to some new activities. For example in pve you progress through quests, events, dungeons,... Obtaining Warclaw is just regular WvW with added annoyance. It is like you are a newbie basketball player and you want to join a veteran group of players. They say, sure join we always welcome new players but you have to play the first 10 matches barefoot. Doesn't really sound like a nice welcome, more like a straight kitten you.

    It’s a reward track... some achievements... and ONE bloody WvW rank to get the mount....

    And.., capping the keep us one of the hardest things., and it’s been pointed out multiple times how easy it is and when to get it.

    It is only hard if someone hates doing it. If that’s the case? Too young cat bad.

    WvW is bleeding players. Is it really a good idea to lock an ESSENTIAL tool behind any sort of grind wall. People who come into WvW to give it a try should be on a level footing immediately. Maybe then they might actually enjoy themselves and perhaps stay. Or invite their PvE friends to give it a try. But I promise you, no PvE player is going to stay or recommend the mode to friends when they spend their first few hours getting chased down by groups of giant cats because they were left behind by their allies, who were also riding giant cats.

    It means they have spent no time looking into how to get it.

    Almost all of it can be completed in EoTM. Without someone resisting them...

    I get we want new players. Really I do. But if this is their breaking point? They weren’t going to stay anyway.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • @Doug.4930 said:
    WvW is bleeding players.

    That implies existing players, who almost certainly have a warclaw, stop playing WvW. That cause would be a whole different kettle of fish....

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    I get we want new players. Really I do. But if this is their breaking point? They weren’t going to stay anyway.

    The time to get a warclaw for a new person isn't as big a deal as everyone makes it. That was the point I was trying to get across in my original post. I think it should be easier, especially when Raptors are practically thrown at you in PoF but I'm not going to argue the point since I can also see the other side of things too.

    The way I see it the really big ongoing problem, at least for this newcomer, is that you have a pvp-oriented play mode where teamwork is critical and voice chat extremely desirable but the game provides no special, additional support for that teamwork, and it has no support whatsoever for voice chat. GW2 relies on its regular group support functionality that comes up short, especially in this context.

    This is what happens to me when I get the itch to play wvw

    • Join a wvw match.
    • Get an auto-popup window of "squads and parties" and it is always blank!
    • Spend 5-10 minutes hopping from map-to-map looking for commander tags, spamming /t looking for a squad (thank you to the guy who clued me into that channel, I didn't know it existed). Usually I find one but why the hell wasn't it listed in that squads and parties window to begin with????
    • After I join a squad, I will bug people for a discord link (please be discord because the Teamspeak UI is awful), switch out of game, join server yada yada yada.

    15 minutes of annoying garbage. And if I didn't find a squad, I noped out and did something else for an hour. Screw that.

    As far as I'm concerned every friendly wvw party and squad should have been listed in that popup window to begin with, no matter how it was created. And the person who created the party/squad should have the option to add a description or role (Havoc/Roam/Zerg) and a place to add Voice Chat info that can be copied and pasted outside of GW2. It would also be nice if that info was auto-whispered to me when I join a squad as well.

    If Anet doesn't want to go through all that effort adding sensible group support, at least list the players with Commander tags in that auto-popup window. That would eliminate a chunk of my annoyances.

    And I'm sure someone here is going to pipe in with something like, join a wvw guild, do this, do that, and I'm sure those suggestions are helpful but really how many people start by joining a wvw guild and doing that stuff before they started playing wvw? Not this guy anyways. While your suggestions may be useful for compensating for a lack of good in game support, and I'll certainly welcome those suggestions, but to expect someone to be aware of or pursue those workarounds before dipping their pvp-toes into wvw isn't reasonable.

    Anet really needs to put some love into LFG in general, or at least the WvW-version of it.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Getting commanders to be auto listed in the LFG menu will only work for those that are public. Anyone who is running closed, will never want to be listed.

    And even some of the public group won’t want to be listed either, for many reasons.

    One of the problems with LFG in WVW is it was recently added as a pop up when loading in. Because this is a recent change, very few commanders are in the habit of utilizing it.

    It would be a waste for guild groups as they often only want people they know.

    But utilizing it more, by squads that are open, would help.

    Hopefully, they have fixed the party merging problem..

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    Well I don't really want progression in pvp mode but that is just opinion. Some like it some don't. And it is a mmorpg, some progression is expected and already in the game. But you aren't getting much advantage with WvW ranks, not something that a new player will really feel and nowhere close to Warclaw. I mean it is even hard if not impossible to keep up with the group. I imagine that just sucks for new player. I genuinely feel bad for players that are left in the dust on foot.
    Usually progression is tied to some new activities. For example in pve you progress through quests, events, dungeons,... Obtaining Warclaw is just regular WvW with added annoyance. It is like you are a newbie basketball player and you want to join a veteran group of players. They say, sure join we always welcome new players but you have to play the first 10 matches barefoot. Doesn't really sound like a nice welcome, more like a straight kitten you.

    It’s a reward track... some achievements... and ONE bloody WvW rank to get the mount....

    And.., capping the keep us one of the hardest things., and it’s been pointed out multiple times how easy it is and when to get it.

    It is only hard if someone hates doing it. If that’s the case? Too young cat bad.

    WvW is bleeding players. Is it really a good idea to lock an ESSENTIAL tool behind any sort of grind wall. People who come into WvW to give it a try should be on a level footing immediately. Maybe then they might actually enjoy themselves and perhaps stay. Or invite their PvE friends to give it a try. But I promise you, no PvE player is going to stay or recommend the mode to friends when they spend their first few hours getting chased down by groups of giant cats because they were left behind by their allies, who were also riding giant cats.

    Let's be honest now. You can't expect someone new coming into wvw and be on equal footing with experienced players of veterans anyways. So unless you experience wvw at least at basic level, which you can do specifically by getting your warclaw, a player would not stand a chance against what happens there anyways. You will be chased around until you are caught up with and killed, it just takes more of your time towards the inevitability and you wont be able to either hone your skills or take objectives than if you were on foot even if you get away. But yeah, it is a lot harder if you actually dont want to play wvw, only to get the mount. When I first started wvw-ing I entered wvw solo, did stuff without expecting a blob to be there for me, skirmished a bit on core, once i've understood i had to learn the elite spec to be somewhat competitive i had to change build and gameplay to learn that new play style, cause in the end I like pvp and this helped me grow a bit as a player. The amount of time and effort to do something like that was way larger than gettin the warclaw, just saying.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    I think most people that want to play any form of pvp are willing to put in the effort into learning the game and in the end getting skilled and pwn like a pro :). Players that are just there for the mount are irrelevant because WvW will not get any long term benefit from them. For all I care they can just get the mount for free. It doesn't affect me and I am not a kind of person that will deny something from others just because I had to put in the effort or paid for it.

    I agree that objectively getting Warclaw is easy for anyone that has some basic knowledge of the game mode. But I don't see any benefit at all in the grind and I didn't saw any argument in this thread why this is beneficial. Is there anyone that actually enjoyed the progress of unlocking Warclaw? Or did all of us just rush to get it as fast as possible. I was unable to play in the weeks when Warclaw was released so I joined the party late. I would describe my path to Warclaw as a mild annoyance and I was familiar with WvW.

    In the end my view here is radical. Free Warclaw for everyone, even f2p players. This would help the mode with new players. Maybe it is to late for this last one and in the end needing to buy the game to play fully is normal.

    Maybe I am completely wrong and Warclaw made a ton of money to Anet and now they will use all that money to make WvW great again and in few weeks we will all cry because all the worlds will have 30 min queues :astonished:

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    The feedback in this thread is amazing, especially from the OP.

    It's really difficult to get new player's situated because the action never stops and trying to train them means needlessly losing objectives. There's almost no direction given to them except 'follow the tag,' which is nigh impossible without Warclaw these days. And since they tend to be super afraid to speak in map chat for some reason, it's hard to even know they need help.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @EmmetOtter.8542 said:
    That implies existing players, who almost certainly have a warclaw, stop playing WvW. That cause would be a whole different kettle of fish....

    Just mentioned it because WvW can't afford to make it difficult for new players to get into the mode.

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    Let's be honest now. You can't expect someone new coming into wvw and be on equal footing with experienced players of veterans anyways.

    By equal footing I mean evenly balanced/fair. Like If I were put into a gladiator match against a samurai. If we both had nothing but katana's, then we would be on equal footing. Even though I wouldn't stand a chance against an actual samurai, at least we both have equal access to the same tools.

    So unless you experience wvw at least at basic level, which you can do specifically by getting your warclaw, a player would not stand a chance against what happens there anyways.

    Not at first, but they could at least see that everybody is on the same playing field, and experience is the only thing stopping them. But putting overpowered mechanics like mounts and gliding behind a grind wall is a good way to demotivate any new players from trying the mode, at least in my view.

    When I first started wvw-ing I entered wvw solo, did stuff without expecting a blob to be there for me, skirmished a bit on core, once i've understood i had to learn the elite spec to be somewhat competitive i had to change build and gameplay to learn that new play style, cause in the end I like pvp and this helped me grow a bit as a player. The amount of time and effort to do something like that was way larger than gettin the warclaw, just saying.

    Tbh I hated elite specs when HoT came out due to similar reasons I hate mounts, (caused my friends and I to quit for 3 years) that being that they encouraged grind to win mechanics and pay to win mechanics. But at least PvE players didn't need to grind in a mode to unlock these specs (as I did god It nearly killed me when HoT first came out) so when/If they decided to try WvW they most likely already had all the specs unlocked. But the mount is something you can only get doing WvW. So when new players join, they will ALWAYS be at the mercy of the overpowered giant cats when they first start playing, thus driving them away.

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    Let's be honest now. You can't expect someone new coming into wvw and be on equal footing with experienced players of veterans anyways.

    By equal footing I mean evenly balanced/fair. Like If I were put into a gladiator match against a samurai. If we both had nothing but katana's, then we would be on equal footing. Even though I wouldn't stand a chance against an actual samurai, at least we both have equal access to the same tools.

    Most of inexperinced players don't even understand the game mechanics of the game enough to have a fair opinion about what is equal footing. that's why the most popular threads on the forum are of the "nerf that profesion I don't like to fight against" & "buff my profession" kind. On the same note, you don't fight while mounted, so when facing an enemy in combat you are still on equal footing. Mounts are just a way to travel faster and not get 1shot if someone sneaks on you and you're not totally aware of your surroundings or if you just dont want to encounter some enemies in your way to somwhere since it ads the mount's hp and 3 dodges to your's. That is most of the usual mount utility you'll see. The combat itself is nothing different than before.

    So unless you experience wvw at least at basic level, which you can do specifically by getting your warclaw, a player would not stand a chance against what happens there anyways.

    Not at first, but they could at least see that everybody is on the same playing field, and experience is the only thing stopping them. But putting overpowered mechanics like mounts and gliding behind a grind wall is a good way to demotivate any new players from trying the mode, at least in my view.

    If you stop before trying tan you didn't want to begin with. If you can acieve the same abilities as eveybody else fairly easy and you still don't feel on equal footing, than you shoul either learn more about what you din't know to become better or not be there in the first place.

    When I first started wvw-ing I entered wvw solo, did stuff without expecting a blob to be there for me, skirmished a bit on core, once i've understood i had to learn the elite spec to be somewhat competitive i had to change build and gameplay to learn that new play style, cause in the end I like pvp and this helped me grow a bit as a player. The amount of time and effort to do something like that was way larger than gettin the warclaw, just saying.

    Tbh I hated elite specs when HoT came out due to similar reasons I hate mounts, (caused my friends and I to quit for 3 years) that being that they encouraged grind to win mechanics and pay to win mechanics. But at least PvE players didn't need to grind in a mode to unlock these specs (as I did god It nearly killed me when HoT first came out) so when/If they decided to try WvW they most likely already had all the specs unlocked. But the mount is something you can only get doing WvW. So when new players join, they will ALWAYS be at the mercy of the overpowered giant cats when they first start playing, thus driving them away.

    You still don't need to grind anything in wvw, as well as wvw players don't need to grind anything from pve. That being said you're not entitle to have it all if you don't put at least some effort in it, especially when that amount of effort isn't even challenging, it only makes you acquainted with the things you'll face in that game mode. There is nothing overpowered about warclaws and there is very little grind in gw2 compared to most of the other mmos out there, you're just too dramatic about it, in the way of saying "I don't actually want to try wvw, just want the mount". You aren't at anyone's mercy, you just need to play, fall raise again as a better player until others fall when they get in your way.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    You still don't need to grind anything in wvw, as well as wvw players don't need to grind anything from pve. That being said you're not entitle to have it all if you don't put at least some effort in it, especially when that amount of effort isn't even challenging, it only makes you acquainted with the things you'll face in that game mode.

    I respectively disagree. In an open world game mode, there should be no grind needed inorder to have the same gear and the same tools as any new player. Experience whether its in fighting or build crafting is something that can be learnt, which encourages fair play and natural ability. A grindy mount is simply a tool that some players have who forked out cash and whom other players do not. I promise you PvE players will notice that everybody else has an OP mount and they don't.

    There is nothing overpowered about warclaws and there is very little grind in gw2 compared to most of the other mmos out there,

    I mean I honestly don't know how you can think there is nothing overpowered about warclaws. Any player without a warclaw is a joke. For instance tonight, a ranger approached me and opened with sicem+rapidfire. Before they'd managed to hit me however, I just mounted up on my overpowered mount and bounced around them with my 3 evades and 10k barrier until rapid fire had ended and the revealed effect had worn off. At which point I dismounted and killed them, because they'd spent their entire burst on my OP mount. Warclaw is broken.

    You are correct about there being very little grind in gw2, thats one of the things I love about it. However, lately it has been moving towards farrrr more grindier mechanics. I truly do not believe grind to win should be a part of any PvP environment. No matter how small you think the grind is. Sure there's always been a little bit, but I'm adamant that we certainly don't need any more.

    you're just too dramatic about it, in the way of saying "I don't actually want to try wvw, just want the mount".

    I don't think I'm being dramatic. I have the mount after all, and I am free to abuse it to my hearts content. But as you said earlier, people on this forum are quick to support parts of the game that benefit them whilst scorning the parts that don't. I have the mount, yet I can clearly see how it IS abused in it present state. I have yet to see a good reason why such a powerful/essential mechanic should be locked behind anything?

    You aren't at anyone's mercy, you just need to play, fall raise again as a better player until others fall when they get in your way.

    The better player won't win when one of the two players has access to a speed kitten with over 10k hp and 3 evades.

    Wouldn't it be perfectly reasonable if anet added a rent option to the warclaw vendor for people who don't own PoF? Pay 50 silver and have warclaw for 4 hours or something.

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    You still don't need to grind anything in wvw, as well as wvw players don't need to grind anything from pve. That being said you're not entitle to have it all if you don't put at least some effort in it, especially when that amount of effort isn't even challenging, it only makes you acquainted with the things you'll face in that game mode.

    I respectively disagree. In an open world game mode, there should be no grind needed inorder to have the same gear and the same tools as any new player. Experience whether its in fighting or build crafting is something that can be learnt, which encourages fair play and natural ability. A grindy mount is simply a tool that some players have who forked out cash and whom other players do not.

    I don't remember forking any cash out when getting the warclaw, not even sure how you could get the mount using cash, but I guess some people will just say anything in an attempt to win an argument they cannot...

    I promise you PvE players will notice that everybody else has an OP mount and they don't.

    >

    Undoubtly you can speak for every pve player there is. Not to mention a pve player remarcs like those would not amount to much until they become wvw players who know what they are talking about. Needles to say their opinion is most valuable... in pve.

    There is nothing overpowered about warclaws and there is very little grind in gw2 compared to most of the other mmos out there,

    I mean I honestly don't know how you can think there is nothing overpowered about warclaws. Any player without a warclaw is a joke. For instance tonight, a ranger approached me and opened with sicem+rapidfire. Before they'd managed to hit me however, I just mounted up on my overpowered mount and bounced around them with my 3 evades and 10k barrier until rapid fire had ended and the revealed effect had worn off. At which point I dismounted and killed them, because they'd spent their entire burst on my OP mount. Warclaw is broken.

    If all the gameplay of that player amounted in a burst phase that he wasn't even able to pull off correctly, then he deserved to be defeated effortlesly. After he learns to play more than just basing his combat on pressing 2 buttons (oh, rangers, most of them think they are so good just because they have some overtuned abilities they press mindlesly and they will always get theselves killed when they meet someone who knows how to play) he might even be succsesful against you and your mount together...

    You are correct about there being very little grind in gw2, thats one of the things I love about it. However, lately it has been moving towards farrrr more grindier mechanics. I truly do not believe grind to win should be a part of any PvP environment. No matter how small you think the grind is. Sure there's always been a little bit, but I'm adamant that we certainly don't need any more.

    you're just too dramatic about it, in the way of saying "I don't actually want to try wvw, just want the mount".

    I don't think I'm being dramatic. I have the mount after all, and I am free to abuse it to my hearts content. But as you said earlier, people on this forum are quick to support parts of the game that benefit them whilst scorning the parts that don't. I have the mount, yet I can clearly see how it IS abused in it present state. I have yet to see a good reason why such a powerful/essential mechanic should be locked behind anything?

    You aren't at anyone's mercy, you just need to play, fall raise again as a better player until others fall when they get in your way.

    The better player won't win when one of the two players has access to a speed kitten with over 10k hp and 3 evades.

    You do not waste you precious cooldowns on a mounted player when you are alone, you use them after they dismount, or just leave them alone. It's basic combat knowledge. They are harmless to you too while keeping mounted.

    Wouldn't it be perfectly reasonable if anet added a rent option to the warclaw vendor for people who don't own PoF? Pay 50 silver and have warclaw for 4 hours or something.

    And in the end you're saing the mount is soooo abused, but still want to add cheap access to it for anyone that comes in wvw, people who most likely don't even want to contribute with anything to the game mode if they can't even commit to play it the barely minimum until getting the mount.

  • @NuhDah.9812 said:

    I don't remember forking any cash out when getting the warclaw, not even sure how you could get the mount using cash, but I guess some people will just say anything in an attempt to win an argument they cannot...

    You have to own PoF to get the mount. Thus it required some cash to get. This is the only way his comment makes sense.

  • @Doug.4930 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    You still don't need to grind anything in wvw, as well as wvw players don't need to grind anything from pve. That being said you're not entitle to have it all if you don't put at least some effort in it, especially when that amount of effort isn't even challenging, it only makes you acquainted with the things you'll face in that game mode.

    I respectively disagree. In an open world game mode, there should be no grind needed inorder to have the same gear and the same tools as any new player. Experience whether its in fighting or build crafting is something that can be learnt, which encourages fair play and natural ability. A grindy mount is simply a tool that some players have who forked out cash and whom other players do not. I promise you PvE players will notice that everybody else has an OP mount and they don't.

    in MMO's its normal to grind for gear/mats...etc. GW2 is no different. Its been built into MMO's and have universally become a part of it. To say mount is OP would be incorrect, see below for my explanation why based on your reasoning.

    There is nothing overpowered about warclaws and there is very little grind in gw2 compared to most of the other mmos out there,

    I mean I honestly don't know how you can think there is nothing overpowered about warclaws. Any player without a warclaw is a joke. For instance tonight, a ranger approached me and opened with sicem+rapidfire. Before they'd managed to hit me however, I just mounted up on my overpowered mount and bounced around them with my 3 evades and 10k barrier until rapid fire had ended and the revealed effect had worn off. At which point I dismounted and killed them, because they'd spent their entire burst on my OP mount. Warclaw is broken.

    WvW (any PvP type modes) are about strategy. As a Roamer who does use warclaw, and a roamer that does attempt to dismount people myself, it boils down to strategy. Using your example as to why it's "OP", is flawed. Its like saying "A thief went stealth so I blew a bunch of CD's and they still lived" and saying that 3s of stealth is OP. If someone took a risk and failed, its on them, not the mount. If it worked, then you would be stunned for a couple seconds and they potentially may have bursted you down. Its a risk vs reward. If I fail to dismount someone, I blame myself, not the mount.

    You are correct about there being very little grind in gw2, thats one of the things I love about it. However, lately it has been moving towards farrrr more grindier mechanics. I truly do not believe grind to win should be a part of any PvP environment. No matter how small you think the grind is. Sure there's always been a little bit, but I'm adamant that we certainly don't need any more.

    you're just too dramatic about it, in the way of saying "I don't actually want to try wvw, just want the mount".

    I don't think I'm being dramatic. I have the mount after all, and I am free to abuse it to my hearts content. But as you said earlier, people on this forum are quick to support parts of the game that benefit them whilst scorning the parts that don't. I have the mount, yet I can clearly see how it IS abused in it present state. I have yet to see a good reason why such a powerful/essential mechanic should be locked behind anything?

    Its to keep it in line with the other mounts. They are all locked behind something (technically so is the raptor)

    You aren't at anyone's mercy, you just need to play, fall raise again as a better player until others fall when they get in your way.

    The better player won't win when one of the two players has access to a speed kitten with over 10k hp and 3 evades.

    Yes the better player will win as in this case, as its also risk vs reward. A better player will dismount me and whoop my butt whereas likewise will happen as well. What constitutes a better player is subjective as I believe knowing when do attack and how to attack is something a better player would have.

    Wouldn't it be perfectly reasonable if anet added a rent option to the warclaw vendor for people who don't own PoF? Pay 50 silver and have warclaw for 4 hours or something.

    I could support this (cost may be some silver + WvW currency however imo)

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  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @smithkt.8062 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    I don't remember forking any cash out when getting the warclaw, not even sure how you could get the mount using cash, but I guess some people will just say anything in an attempt to win an argument they cannot...

    You have to own PoF to get the mount. Thus it required some cash to get. This is the only way his comment makes sense.

    It barely makes any sense, I'd say, since the expansion launched 2 years ago and I'm pretty sure it'd be accurate to say no one bought it just to get the wvw mount, something that was never promised to come with the expansion, probably most of the people didn't even want it's existence here, so the most I can say about the warclaw was a free update, similar to a living story chapter if you want something to compare it with.

  • SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    Yeah the mount is terrible for new players. I fully realized this while trying to get an alt account geared up. On my main I didn't realize just how many points it really takes to max out the mount mastery. Which means new players, even after finally unlocking it, will be slower in friendly territory, only have 2 dodges, can't sniff, can't mount finish.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not completely against mounts. The best thing they bring IMO is overall mobility especially when trying to run back to a zerg. That's pretty much the only positive IMO though. 3 dodges is too many. You shouldn't be able to just triple dodge through any zerg without even being touched. It's just absurd. Don't even get me started on mount stomping, which is really just cheese no-skill gameplay that encourages people to stay out of combat and on mounts. Also harder to fight outnumbered when some random fool can just come out of nowhere and instantly mount stomp people if you don't use MI/illusion fast enough.

    It's a shame that Anet just dropped the mounts in without really considering the repercussions that much. Temporary spike in players for long-term detriment to the game mode.

  • deffy.1320deffy.1320 Member ✭✭
    edited September 15, 2019

    @Doug.4930 said:

    Or invite their PvE friends to give it a try. But I promise you, no PvE player is going to stay or recommend the mode to friends when they spend their first few hours getting chased down by groups of giant cats because they were left behind by their allies, who were also riding giant cats.

    La MEW La MEW MEOW! PEPE!

    we all started in pve ppl either like the game mode or don't, i've seen commanders be helpful thoughtful to new players but they cant continuously do it, and again tbf its extremely easy to get. Most are given swiftness and if ppl can help then tend to do so. Like most things in life everything isn't just instant u have to work towards things sometimes it's difficult sometimes its easy. :)

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2019

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    I don't remember forking any cash out when getting the warclaw, not even sure how you could get the mount using cash, but I guess some people will just say anything in an attempt to win an argument they cannot...

    Um you're joking right? You do realise that PoF is needed in order to get the warclaw right? So you know, you get the mount using cash because its exclusive to PoF. Therefore players who don't buy the xpac are at a disadvantage. Therefore pay to win.
    Before you say nobody bought PoF for the mount, this is not true. My entire guild bought PoF for the mount. None of us enjoy PvE and we only enjoy playing WvW. The literal only reason I bought PoF was because playing WvW without the mount was like trying to walk with one leg.

    Undoubtly you can speak for every pve player there is. Not to mention a pve player remarcs like those would not amount to much until they become wvw players who know what they are talking about. Needles to say their opinion is most valuable... in pve.

    Indeed, but its not PvE players saying this is it? Because PvE players don't get to this point where they know anything about WvW because its impossible for new players to get into WvW because of mechanics like the broken mount. Instead you've got players like me who've been playing WvW for 6 years. So I'd say our views are worth something.

    If all the gameplay of that player amounted in a burst phase that he wasn't even able to pull off correctly, then he deserved to be defeated effortlesly. After he learns to play more than just basing his combat on pressing 2 buttons (oh, rangers, most of them think they are so good just because they have some overtuned abilities they press mindlesly and they will always get theselves killed when they meet someone who knows how to play) he might even be succsesful against you and your mount together...

    That example however does demonstrate exactly how the mount can be abused. You can argue all you like about how the player was bad etc. But the fact is that the mount gave me a huge edge in that fight. Which I thoroughly believe shouldn't be a feature of mounts. They should be mobility based only and have no use in combat.

    They should be convenient, not essential.

    And in the end you're saing the mount is soooo abused, but still want to add cheap access to it for anyone that comes in wvw, people who most likely don't even want to contribute with anything to the game mode if they can't even commit to play it the barely minimum until getting the mount.

    Yes, because as much as i would adore mounts to be metaphorically nuked from orbit and never heard from or seen in WvW ever again, I can understand that my fantasy is very unlikely to become reality. So I content myself to the compromise that everyone should have access to a blatantly overpowered and abused mechanic in order to level the playing field.
    I don't blame them for not wanting to play it. Getting constantly ganked by people on mounts is not fun. They already have the uphill battle of learning how to fight other players, now in addition to that they've got to deal with all other players having access to a mount with 3 evades and 10k hp? And you expect them to stay? Why the hell would they want to stay?

    For the sake of not going off topic I won't even get started on how PoF professions are meta, and most core/HoT specs can't hold their own against them.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2019

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    in MMO's its normal to grind for gear/mats...etc. GW2 is no different. Its been built into MMO's and have universally become a part of it. To say mount is OP would be incorrect, see below for my explanation why based on your reasoning.

    Yes and what sets Gw2 apart is the lack of constant grind. The freedom to put the game down for 6 months and come back without needing to grind for a week to be back up to date.

    WvW (any PvP type modes) are about strategy. As a Roamer who does use warclaw, and a roamer that does attempt to dismount people myself, it boils down to strategy. Using your example as to why it's "OP", is flawed. Its like saying "A thief went stealth so I blew a bunch of CD's and they still lived" and saying that 3s of stealth is OP. If someone took a risk and failed, its on them, not the mount. If it worked, then you would be stunned for a couple seconds and they potentially may have bursted you down. Its a risk vs reward. If I fail to dismount someone, I blame myself, not the mount.

    I think the main criticism with mounts being OP is that they give such a blatant advantage to the player who dismounts first. If you ran into me in WvW and was trying to keep me from killing yaks or back capping ruins or a camp etc, you'd need to dismount me before you could fight me. You would be forced to blow many expensive cool downs in order to get me off my mount. Not only do you need to land 10k damage on a highly mobile target, you also need to take into account my 3 evades which allow me to burn more cool downs, at absolutely no risk to myself. Once this is done i dismount and fight. I have all my cool downs up, whilst you have just burnt all yours trying to dismount me. The stun is only a factor if the player is trying to run away (in which case they probably can't fight anyway). As a roamer, I can simply wait for your cool downs to be spent and then dismount voluntarily. The deck is then heavily stacked in my favour.

    As for your stealth example. Imagine if anet deleted stealth from theives, and instead gave thieves 5 base evades that acted as leaps, and 10k more hp? That wouldn't be a case of oh well i took a risk and that thief killed me. It would be game breaking. Like the mount is now.
    EDIT: Also making thieves immune to all forms of CC. Mounts are so busted sometimes i forget all the ways that they are overpowered.

    Its to keep it in line with the other mounts. They are all locked behind something (technically so is the raptor)

    I'd be happy with a rent a mount feature whilst the lock is grinded out.

    Yes the better player will win as in this case, as its also risk vs reward. A better player will dismount me and whoop my butt whereas likewise will happen as well. What constitutes a better player is subjective as I believe knowing when do attack and how to attack is something a better player would have.

    Not always, if you come across a player who is better than you are, but not by a huge margin, then you should still win that engagement if the former player burnt through valuable cool downs to dismount you. The only time the better player will dismount you and win is when the skill gap is disproportionately huge.

    I could support this (cost may be some silver + WvW currency however imo)

    Yea it would at least be a band aid soloution.

  • @Doug.4930 said:
    Therefore players who don't buy the xpac are at a disadvantage. Therefore pay to win.

    I would say a key part of pay to win is the resulting instantaneous power upgrade, which isn't present here. With your very loose definition, paying any money at all for the game is "pay to win". Look at all these restrictions on the free account vs a paid account!!!
    https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/230165307-Guild-Wars-2-Account-Types-Free-Core-HoT-PoF

    You bought the game? Pay to win!
    You bought a MMO mouse to make play easier? Pay to win!
    You bought a better computer? Very Pay to win!

    Paying for an expansion which requires you to play for hours and hours and hours before you get whatever that makes you "stronger"? Not pay to win.

    For the sake of not going off topic

    Too late! The topic was "don't give up on the wvw. the warclaw grind isn't that bad." You and many others decided to hijack the conversation for your own.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2019

    There were Mount-Rental-Services in the Festival of Winds, I think a war claw rentable for a daily or weekly fee would really make WvW more entry friendly. (And yes, I made my Warclaw, late and alone and without problems, but I am not a WvW beginner, that at the same time has to learn how WvW works.)

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2019

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    I don't remember forking any cash out when getting the warclaw, not even sure how you could get the mount using cash, but I guess some people will just say anything in an attempt to win an argument they cannot...

    Um you're joking right? You do realise that PoF is needed in order to get the warclaw right? So you know, you get the mount using cash because its exclusive to PoF. Therefore players who don't buy the xpac are at a disadvantage. Therefore pay to win.
    Before you say nobody bought PoF for the mount, this is not true. My entire guild bought PoF for the mount. None of us enjoy PvE and we only enjoy playing WvW. The literal only reason I bought PoF was because playing WvW without the mount was like trying to walk with one leg.

    So you're telling me the pve people, you were talking about, who might try wvw didn't get PoF for the pve content and bought it only to try wvw with the new mount? Not to mention the PoF expansion is out for 2 years now, it comes with the PoF elite specializations and the warclaw update was not included with it, as I mentioned above, it was a free update like a living world chapter. Again, saying anyone bought PoF just for the mounts and not for anything else including the elite specs even if not interested in pve is just too far fetched.

    Undoubtly you can speak for every pve player there is. Not to mention a pve player remarcs like those would not amount to much until they become wvw players who know what they are talking about. Needles to say their opinion is most valuable... in pve.

    Indeed, but its not PvE players saying this is it? Because PvE players don't get to this point where they know anything about WvW because its impossible for new players to get into WvW because of mechanics like the broken mount. Instead you've got players like me who've been playing WvW for 6 years. So I'd say our views are worth something.

    If all the gameplay of that player amounted in a burst phase that he wasn't even able to pull off correctly, then he deserved to be defeated effortlesly. After he learns to play more than just basing his combat on pressing 2 buttons (oh, rangers, most of them think they are so good just because they have some overtuned abilities they press mindlesly and they will always get theselves killed when they meet someone who knows how to play) he might even be succsesful against you and your mount together...

    That example however does demonstrate exactly how the mount can be abused. You can argue all you like about how the player was bad etc. But the fact is that the mount gave me a huge edge in that fight. Which I thoroughly believe shouldn't be a feature of mounts. They should be mobility based only and have no use in combat.

    They should be convenient, not essential.

    You play wvw for 6 years now and consider mounts game breaking in terms of the advantage in combat it gives you, all this while giving examples of how inexperienced players can get beaten after some clutch mounting done by someone who plays since launch and attribute this win to the fact that mounts are op for combat... man, if you think anyone will fall for such reasoning, it really makes me want to know what you are smoking, cause I want it too.

    And in the end you're saing the mount is soooo abused, but still want to add cheap access to it for anyone that comes in wvw, people who most likely don't even want to contribute with anything to the game mode if they can't even commit to play it the barely minimum until getting the mount.

    Yes, because as much as i would adore mounts to be metaphorically nuked from orbit and never heard from or seen in WvW ever again, I can understand that my fantasy is very unlikely to become reality. So I content myself to the compromise that everyone should have access to a blatantly overpowered and abused mechanic in order to level the playing field.
    I don't blame them for not wanting to play it. Getting constantly ganked by people on mounts is not fun. They already have the uphill battle of learning how to fight other players, now in addition to that they've got to deal with all other players having access to a mount with 3 evades and 10k hp? And you expect them to stay? Why the hell would they want to stay?

    For the sake of not going off topic I won't even get started on how PoF professions are meta, and most core/HoT specs can't hold their own against them.

    No one is getting more nuked out of the orbit with mounts more than without mounts. If you feel like professions are overtuned in some ways, they are because there are some multipliers from foods and other boons allowed in wvw that synergise too well with some already potent ablities not because of mounts. Trust me I can nuke some unaware newbe out of the orbit way better without a mount than with one, it's presence in wvw only hinders my ambush potential and speed superiority. So not having a mount now is in no way worse compared to how it would have been before mount introduction in wvw, still not a friendly place for newbes who can't take defeat and learning from the wvw gamemode. So if others could enter wvw before warclaw, they can now too.

    Also that thing about PoF professions being meta, I feel it's not really accurate either at this point. I'm seeing plenty of reapers and core, dh, berzerkers and core, drd and core, heralds around lately, I also encounter druids and core from time to time, rarely scrappers (after adjustments), tempest an chronos. Anyways you get the picture, PoF elite specs aren't that superior and popular compared to the other stuff around, a shame it took over a year for the devs to balance those, but I'd say you get good options in the HoT and core specs too now. I personally main an HoT elite spec and don't feel inferior fighting against most of other specs I encounter... that is in wvw where I have options that work well with it and can make it a decent spec, cause in spvp it's kitten at this point.

  • It's hard to explain common sense and good sense to people of lesser mind. I guess people just have no compassion for new players.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2019

    @Angel.3916 said:
    It's hard to explain common sense and good sense to people of lesser mind. I guess people just have no compassion for new players.

    This isn't about compassion. Besides, why is compassion even a factor here? Is this a charity? Everyone with the expansion has access to get Warclaw ... so the game isn't what is stopping new people getting it.

    Are you someone that thinks people should just get things because they are new ... just because there is a perception it's not fair if they don't? I mean, I'm pretty sure no one simply wants a whole bunch of stuff handed to them; anyone that plays an MMO understands that getting things is part of playing the game. if someone doesn't get that, it's still not a reason to just give it to them.

    Yes, there is a disadvantage for ANYONE coming late to the party, in almost ALL aspects of ANY game. I don't get why that's a problem.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • I dislike how uninviting this game mode has gotten towards new players. They may lack ascended gear and the proper build. Together with all the ranks, gliding and mount ability make it way worse for newer players. This is not an even game mode at all, and I would like for anet to make it more even in terms of extra stats and skills that you make by progress. I'm not one of those that think WvW players need some way of progressing. I think adding WvW ranks was a mistake, together with all the tower auras, activators and upgrades. They only made the game more unfair and overwhelming for newer players. The stronger server has more to gain with the upgrades than the weaker servers.
    Anet keeps on shooting themselves in the foot.

    My YT- channel: Toxilo

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