Final nail in the coffin - No WvW updates

[Obtena.7952]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:This is the way the game endsThis is the way the game endsThis is the way the game ends

Not with a bang but with a whimper.

Yeah, like all 5 people that play WvW leave and the game ends. SHURE!!

You guys need to get a reality check. WvW isn't as important to the longevity of this game as you want to think. Sure, WvW players would leave at this continued rate. That would simply mean Anet could focus on developing the parts of this game that don't drag it down.

Wow... I don’t really think you could be more smug. And people call raiders and sPvPers elitist.

Nothing smug about it. If WvW isn't generating enough revenue and it's not a loss leader, then it should go away so they can focus on what is working for them. That's how business works.

Why do you think car makers are dumping sedans for SUV and crossovers? It's no different.

You still have no data, just speculation, in business that's......

It's not speculation that businesses invest in areas where they get their revenues from.

Then prove the gap between PvE and WvW with more than speculation.

Easy ... how much development has WvW had and how much development has PVE had? PVE gets WAY more development than WvW. The gap is obvious. If you don't see it, it's because you don't want to see it.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:This is the way the game endsThis is the way the game endsThis is the way the game ends

Not with a bang but with a whimper.

Yeah, like all 5 people that play WvW leave and the game ends. SHURE!!

You guys need to get a reality check. WvW isn't as important to the longevity of this game as you want to think. Sure, WvW players would leave at this continued rate. That would simply mean Anet could focus on developing the parts of this game that don't drag it down.

Wow... I don’t really think you could be more smug. And people call raiders and sPvPers elitist.

Nothing smug about it. If WvW isn't generating enough revenue and it's not a loss leader, then it should go away so they can focus on what is working for them. That's how business works.

Why do you think car makers are dumping sedans for SUV and crossovers? It's no different.

You still have no data, just speculation, in business that's......

It's not speculation that businesses invest in areas where they get their revenues from.

Then prove the gap between PvE and WvW with more than speculation.

Easy ... how much development has WvW had and how much development has PVE had? PVE gets WAY more development than WvW.

Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

[Obtena.7952]

@Tinnel.4369 said:Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

Right, so even your sarcasm can't hide the fact I'm right. EVEN with that 18 month development, PVE STILL gets more development than WvW. We have 7 years of game history ... you're going to honestly try to paint the picture that WvW is this intensely developed game mode? MORE than PVE? Now your just being incredible.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

Right, so even your sarcasm can't hide the fact I'm right. EVEN with that 18 month development, PVE STILL gets more development than WvW. We have 7 years of game history ... you're going to honestly try to paint the picture that WvW is this intensely developed game mode? MORE than PVE? Now your just being incredible.

Acknowledge my sarcasm then try and assert I'm being serious. Now you're just being incredible. In that time PvE has gotten more delivered development, you have zero data to compare the amount until it's actually delivered.

Prove to me the income discrepancy is as big as you imply and that the apparent development discrepancy isn't more a matter of choice and misunderstanding of the market and we can continue a discussion. Because what my keen perception tells me is that the market is starved for exactly what GW2 already has in its hands.....large scale fast paced combat. What the market isn't starved for is cookie cutter content and plastic dolls.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:It was billed as an announcement about Living World. It was an announcement about Living World.It was entirely unsurprising that they barely mentioned anything else.

---

WvW Restructuring will come when it's ready. They aren't going to push an announcement for it to suit the Living World release schedule, or delay hyping LS5 until it's ready.

I'm not happy that Restructuring is taking so darn long. I just am not hanging my hopes on any single moment of ANet's marketing campaigns, especially since they tend to go ga-ga over stuff that I think barely matters and barely mention stuff that I think will be incredibly engaging to fans.

That's the thing tho Ilc.. when you make announcements that expacs are gone and LS will now include expac type content.. that to many of us kinda throws out the need to include WvW or PvP in amongst that "expac type content".. so imo this live theatre event could of and should of given those areas of the game a little more air time than they did, which was actually nothing more than a blink of the eye moment.Heck Cosplay Merchandising got more air time than pretty much anything else tbh.

[Obtena.7952]

@Tinnel.4369 said:Prove to me the income discrepancy is as big as you imply

I already did ... if it wasn't big, WvW would have the same level of development as PVE. If Anet didn't understand the market, this game wouldn't exist at all; the sole reason it's successful is Anet's observation that there was an underserved portion of the market that didn't want games like WoW, etc...

Besides, I don't really care if you are convinced or not. The fact is that WvW simply doesn't get the attention people want it to have and it's not even close to how much happens in PVE. It's not unreasonable to think it's because there simply isn't enough business to put that level of attention in it. What you attribute to malice and incompetence, I'm attributing to sound business practice. I think i'm right because if Anet were so incompetent, this game wouldn't exist, or their other games either.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Cambeleg.7632 said:It couldn't be said more clear.An event like this, without an only word about WvW/PvP is just the way how you lose players playing and players wanting to come back.VERY wrong step, Anet. One disappointment more to the list, and it goes on.

+1

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Bloodstealer.5978" said:That's the thing tho Ilc.. when you make announcements that expacs are gone and LS will now include expac type content..Except that's not what they announced. There's no link at all between Living World Seasons (or Sagas) and feature releases.

Some time ago, Mike Z said that there wouldn't be an expac "any time soon." And, more recently, the devs have (more than once) said: they will release features when they are ready.

so imo this live theatre event could of and should of given those areas of the game a little more air time than they did,This thread isn't about what ANet could or should have presented. It's about the OP being disappointed that their expectations weren't fulfilled, despite there being no reason to have those expectations.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Bloodstealer.5978" said:That's the thing tho Ilc.. when you make announcements that expacs are gone and LS will now include expac type content..Except that's not what they announced. There's no link at all between Living World Seasons (or Sagas) and feature releases.

Some time ago, Mike Z said that there wouldn't be an expac "any time soon." And, more recently, the devs have (more than once) said: they will release features

when they are ready

.

so imo this live theatre event could of and should of given those areas of the game a little more air time than they did,This thread isn't about what ANet could or should have presented. It's about the OP being disappointed that their expectations weren't fulfilled, despite there being no reason to have those expectations.

They absolutely have said LS updates will be including expansion type feature/content going forward.. I am surprised you think otherwise.But you miss the point, when you keep players hanging on for months.. many, many months in the hope something is coming, something big and then over hype a LS content that for all intense and purpose could and should include expansion type features it is only to be expected some will be thinking... ooh Alliances might get some update. Well we did, we got told very quickly it is nowhere in sight.. the "coming months" is just so .. glossy.And thus the OP is disappointed, like others, that the event did not meet with expectation even though it was just a LS update with at least a third of it made up of merchandising gimmickry and a godawful MoS that thinks shouting every few minutes would disguise the forlorn feelings.

[Tinnel.4369]

"You knew it was about living season 5, what were you expecting?!?"

"You know they introduced sagas and other features, right?"

"Huh?"

[JTGuevara.9018]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@JTGuevara.9018 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:This is the way the game endsThis is the way the game endsThis is the way the game ends

Not with a bang but with a whimper.

Yeah, like all 5 people that play WvW leave and the game ends. SHURE!!

You guys need to get a reality check. WvW isn't as important to the longevity of this game as you want to think. Sure, WvW players would leave at this continued rate. That would simply mean Anet could focus on developing the parts of this game that don't drag it down.

Wow... I don’t really think you could be more smug. And people call raiders and sPvPers elitist.

Nothing smug about it. If WvW isn't generating enough revenue and it's not a loss leader, then it should go away so they can focus on what is working for them. That's how business works.

Why do you think car makers are dumping sedans for SUV and crossovers? It's no different.

Nothing smug? Ha! Says the one who thinks wvw is something from the age of the dinosaurs that needs to go away!

That's not what I said ... I said if it's not making them revenue or a loss leader, THEN it should go away. if you don't understand the difference, you should probably not continue to reply to me.

Oh you most CERTAINLY did say it! lmao...It's just amazing to me how people blindly defend this company at every turn. It defies logic.

[devastoscz.9851]

Some people somehow think WvW players don't use the gem store at all and point this as a reason WvW doesn't get updates. The source of revenue comes from all players in all sectors of the game. I don't see how PVE as a game mode directs players to spend more money on Gems. If anything PVE has more skins and trinkets that could keep a player satisfied without paying for gems when compared to WvW.

Do more players play PVE than WvW? Of course, because you need to PVE to level up and grind your first gear sets for literally every character.

Is retention lower in the average WvW player? Probably, but not because they're cheap but because their game mode is bleeding players due to neglect. Maybe if more efforts were spent to satisfy the community's needs; IF Anet would market this unique aspect in the MMO genre properly, we would have a healthy population (hence more gem purchases) and it wouldn't seem like a waste of development time.

On the other hand if they ignore a game mode, how do they expect to make money from those players? They're just gonna leave at an exponential rate as their peers jump ship.

[JTGuevara.9018]

@"Strages.2950" said:Some people somehow think WvW players don't use the gem store at all and point this as a reason WvW doesn't get updates. The source of revenue comes from all players in all sectors of the game. I don't see how PVE as a game mode directs players to spend more money on Gems. If anything PVE has more skins and trinkets that could keep a player satisfied without paying for gems when compared to WvW.

Do more players play PVE than WvW? Of course, because you need to PVE to level up and grind your first gear sets for literally every character.

Is retention lower in the average WvW player? Probably, but not because they're cheap but because their game mode is bleeding players due to neglect. Maybe if more efforts were spent to satisfy the community's needs; IF Anet would market this unique aspect in the MMO genre properly, we would have a healthy population (hence more gem purchases) and it wouldn't seem like a waste of development time.

On the other hand if they ignore a game mode, how do they expect to make money from those players? They're just gonna leave at an exponential rate as their peers jump ship.

Exactly, there's also the situation of entire guilds trying to cough up funds to transfer over their players just so they can simply play with each other. Guilds are reduced to waiting for relinks every few months for a new pool of players to draw from. It's a screwed situation. And there's still no concrete word on alliances besides the same old message: "Coming soon!"

[Optimator.3589]

The longer WvW continues with no changes, the more it's going to lose commanders, guilds and players. The fewer players in the mode, the worse it gets, and we lose even more players. Anet, please, pull your heads out of your arses and give us some meaningful communication about the progress being made.

[Dragon.8762]

I know its not real content, but I kinda liked the WvW week long events and hope they continue to do different ones, while we wait for the big WvW update.

[Teratus.2859]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:It's almost like completely redesigning a game mode takes a very long time and a lot of work or something..

Ah.. I’m sorry then.

I didn’t realize we were getting a full redesign. I thought it was just a population restructure.

My bad

They're redesigning how WvW effectively works, taking away the current server structure, making a whole new one, adding new features like alliances, testing constantly, adding new ideas, taking others that don't work away.. etc all without destroying what people love about the game mode.

Effectively pairing servers down to 9-12, and relinking.

Anything else is speculation.

Because we haven’t been told anything else.

Way I understood it they are not changing how the current server system works, they're doing away with it entirely for something new.This spans not just WvW but effects the PvE game as well which is tied into that same server system.

I don't have much experience with game design or coding but even I know that this sort of thing is a huge job that is going to take a lot of time.

19 months (at least) and counting without even a projected release date or an update in 10 months. LS seasons take 9 months.

Living world is always going to a priotiry over anything else, MMO's are sold on PvE content not PvP.Pvp has always been a far smaller element in any MMO and it always will be.

I can sympathize with those who only play the game for WvW even though I don't understand why anyone would buy a MMO purely for the pvp.. but this kind of thing is one of those, it'll be done when it's done kinda things.

It’s

END GAME CONTENT

. Period. We have to play a lot of the rest of the game to enjoy our end game content, but then get no significant changes to that end game content.

Actually it's not, it's a variation of PvP content that you can play as soon as you start the game.WvW has virtually nothing to do with the PvE game and you don't need to play PvE at all outside of the tutorial areas to play WvW.The only thing that requires you play both game modes is the Legendary Weapons, other than that both game modes are stand alone and have little in common outside of your gear, level, build, items etc being transferable from one to the other.The only Endgame content in Gw2 is in PvE.. raids, fractals etcPvP and WvW had no real Endgame and can be enjoyed by anyone at any level.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:It's almost like completely redesigning a game mode takes a very long time and a lot of work or something..

Ah.. I’m sorry then.

I didn’t realize we were getting a full redesign. I thought it was just a population restructure.

My bad

They're redesigning how WvW effectively works, taking away the current server structure, making a whole new one, adding new features like alliances, testing constantly, adding new ideas, taking others that don't work away.. etc all without destroying what people love about the game mode.

Effectively pairing servers down to 9-12, and relinking.

Anything else is speculation.

Because we haven’t been told anything else.

Way I understood it they are not changing how the current server system works, they're doing away with it entirely for something new.This spans not just WvW but effects the PvE game as well which is tied into that same server system.

Which the Technology exists both in Megaservers, and in World Linkings. Again... 19 Months, 2 LS full seasons since..

I don't have much experience with game design or coding but even I know that this sort of thing is a huge job that is going to take a lot of time.

19 months (at least) and counting without even a projected release date or an update in 10 months. LS seasons take 9 months.

Living world is always going to a priotiry over anything else, MMO's are sold on PvE content not PvP.Pvp has always been a far smaller element in any MMO and it always will be.

We've known this from HoT when Guilds in WvW were gutted for the Guild Hall process. Upgrades and Buffs that were ONLY used in WvW were lost and locked back behind a grind. We've known this as prior to the release of Skirmish tracks and Reward Tracks it actual cost more gold to play WvW then we got in rewards. We don't need to be told where there priorities are.

You neglect to note that sPvP and WvW were two of the three original content options at the start of the game along with PvE. Dungeons were an extension of the Personal Story with the use of those dungeons as explorable later.

WvW and PvP were ALWAYS considered effectively End Game Content.

I can sympathize with those who only play the game for WvW even though I don't understand why anyone would buy a MMO purely for the pvp.. but this kind of thing is one of those, it'll be done when it's done kinda things.

It’s

END GAME CONTENT

. Period. We have to play a lot of the rest of the game to enjoy our end game content, but then get no significant changes to that end game content.

Actually it's not, it's a variation of PvP content that you can play as soon as you start the game.WvW has virtually nothing to do with the PvE game and you don't need to play PvE at all outside of the tutorial areas to play WvW.The only thing that requires you play both game modes is the Legendary Weapons, other than that both game modes are stand alone and have little in common outside of your gear, level, build, items etc being transferable from one to the other.The only Endgame content in Gw2 is in PvE.. raids, fractals etcPvP and WvW had no real Endgame and can be enjoyed by anyone at any level.

sPvP can to an extent. But when have you played WvW last? You DO realize there is a level cap to enter correct? And you do realize you are dynamically adjusted to Level 80 to allow for playing with those players that have been on WvW? You do realize this right? Because there is NO XP given in WvW for leveling...

There are 4 End Game Contents in this game. Raids, Fractals, WvW and sPvP. Considering them anything else is just trying to ignore the basic structure of the game.

[dragontree.8092]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:This is the way the game endsThis is the way the game endsThis is the way the game ends

Not with a bang but with a whimper.

Yeah, like all 5 people that play WvW leave and the game ends. SHURE!!

You guys need to get a reality check. WvW isn't as important to the longevity of this game as you want to think. Sure, WvW players would leave at this continued rate. That would simply mean Anet could focus on developing the parts of this game that don't drag it down.

Wow... I don’t really think you could be more smug. And people call raiders and sPvPers elitist.

Nothing smug about it. If WvW isn't generating enough revenue and it's not a loss leader, then it should go away so they can focus on what is working for them. That's how business works.

Why do you think car makers are dumping sedans for SUV and crossovers? It's no different.

There's no WvW only gemstore, we buy and farm the same kitten as everyone else,.

That doesn't matter. I can assure you, Anet can measure who is playing what mode, for how long and how much they are spending. if WvW players are not the majority of the revenue, WvW won't be the majority of the investment. The decision on what to focus development on is a business one, not an emotional one.

Yeah, sure, but it's been 19 months already. That's more than enough time for them to have done something about wvw server balance.

[dragontree.8092]

WVW has been losing guilds and players for years now. Leaving the game. What we have left is a skeleton crew compared to what we had a few years ago. If Anet had done something about balance, listened to their customers, there would currently be much more people playing wvw, and new players joining wvw, so wvw would be bringing in more revenue, and thus it would be a bigger focus for anet than it currently is. It will never be on par with pve, that's expected, but it would be much higher than what it is if they had listened to and retained their customers.

[TheBravery.9615]

@dS T nE.6823 said:Press F for dead game

F.

[Tiviana.2650]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:This is the way the game endsThis is the way the game endsThis is the way the game ends

Not with a bang but with a whimper.

Yeah, like all 5 people that play WvW leave and the game ends. SHURE!!

You guys need to get a reality check. WvW isn't as important to the longevity of this game as you want to think. Sure, WvW players would leave at this continued rate. That would simply mean Anet could focus on developing the parts of this game that don't drag it down.

Wow... I don’t really think you could be more smug. And people call raiders and sPvPers elitist.

Yeah that was a pretty kitten thing to say and they call raiders and pvpers elitist lol oh irony. But hey let the whales and ultra casuals have gw2, the good players are moving on its apparent they are not wanted here .

[Sugar Min.5834]

" We look forward to talk about it in the upcoming months"

Months could be 3 months? 6 months? Or another 18 months ?! And just talk again ?!!

I too think that ANet will not put so much time in restructurng a game mode that makes them little money. Alliance probably being shelved.

F

[Burnfall.9573]

'What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun'

[LetoII.3782]

F13charrcars

[Burnfall.9573]

F13charrcars