Thank you for the PvP balance update

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Drennon.7190 said:That thief nerf xD as always, just had to nerf teef.

to be fair unblockable aoe daze with poison field is insane. I wish they'd just remove the kitten daze they added and reset to base initiative cost though.

Is has a very fair tell and slow missile speed, so you can either dodge the daze application or just move away from the impact.

Yes assuming its just the 2 of you and nothing else going on, a sudden aoe daze in a middle if a team fight isn't so easy to dodge that when all other sorts of stuff is going on. Think most people would rather it be 4/5 ini and revert it, or even remove the daze altogether

[ollbirtan.2915]

@mistsim.2748 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Great! Let's nerf skills for struggling classes like ele, and remove MORE AMULETS. PVP is definitely heading into the direction of

"just your loincloth and a stick"

So much for diversity!

Tornado on a zerker ele is oppressive AF. It had an insanely low CD. It's still strong

I don't understand the lightning rod nerf.

Tornado increased cooldown is justified - it was indeed more than oppressing even on a support build not running Zerker. I was referring to the stupid nerf to LR. Just because someone with big IQ and top-notch pvp skills makes a "LR OP! PLEASE NERF!!!!" thread on the forums, it's not a valid reason to nerf this skill or any other. Sadly, anet seems to only listen to a certain small but very vocal minority of the forums.

[Khalisto.5780]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:I haven't even read it yet, just grateful to still see updates coming in

Well as long as you aren't a Ranger main, you'll be satisfied.

Ranger/Soulbeast was destroyed this patch.

Welcome to Prot Holo side node meta and Boyer on a Druid.

See you in game boys.

yup

i dont like rangers very much but i felt it wasnt op it was only the pets hitting like a truck

the pets were not nerfed properly and the nerfs on gs were unnecessary. Only thing I'd touch on gs would be decreasing the block duration in 1 sec

[ArlAlt.1630]

@TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:Still waiting on the firebrand ''tradeoff''it's only fair.

Fat chance of that happening, it's much more likely all other e-specs will get a 2nd trade off before FB gets its first.

[Falan.1839]

@shadowpass.4236 said:I don't understand the logic behind buffing certain skills to overpoweredness then increasing the cooldowns massively because they're too strong.

There is no logic, it is just two different teams (with the balance team being 1 person honestly) doing different things. The buffs overpowering skills are usually revamps from the skills team, and then CmC has to tinker with cooldowns, damage modifiers and stack sizes to bring them in line with the overall balance, since he can't change the skills' functionality.

[anjo.6143]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Darkk.3018 said:A good patch for the most part. The absence of any changes to rev is just jarring though. Please fix this obvious bug.

rev is not OP, just good players chose to play rev over other specs :)

rev is not op? rev, is, not, op? rev... isnt... op? REV isnt OP? Oh my...

[anjo.6143]

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Drennon.7190 said:That thief nerf xD as always, just had to nerf teef.

to be fair unblockable aoe daze with poison field is insane. I wish they'd just remove the kitten daze they added and reset to base initiative cost though.

So, bascily thief wouldnt stop any ress?

[Enduronex.4865]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:I haven't even read it yet, just grateful to still see updates coming in

Well as long as you aren't a Ranger main, you'll be satisfied.

Ranger/Soulbeast was destroyed this patch.

Welcome to Prot Holo side node meta and Boyer on a Druid.

See you in game boys.

Well then stop complaining about the WRONG things. Prot holos will just use Celestial Amulets or Mender's Amulets + Sanctuary Runes. Until forum posters understand the root of the problem, this is just symptom trimming. Oh and Spellbreaker can sidenode bunker MORE than prot holos. They just run Mender's Amulet, Signet of Mercy, and Scrapper Runes and you can't kill them XD

Ask for nerfs to revenant and guard, things that need to be done. And if you saw rangers in ranked, you know nerfs HAD to come. In fact, more nerfs are probably going to come for the pet's vitality as they are still too hard to kill for the dmg and condis rangers can output.

[otto.5684]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Great! Let's nerf skills for struggling classes like ele, and remove MORE AMULETS. PVP is definitely heading into the direction of "just your loincloth and a stick" So much for diversity!

Anet balance moto: "one or two builds are overperforming? You do not know how to fix or too lazy to think? Just remove the amulet the build(s) use. It is that easy!"

I think we are getting closer to have only celestial as the only amulet. If we remove weapons, HP pools and give everyone a stick, the game will be balanced....

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Great! Let's nerf skills for struggling classes like ele, and remove MORE AMULETS. PVP is definitely heading into the direction of

"just your loincloth and a stick"

So much for diversity!

Tornado on a zerker ele is oppressive AF. It had an insanely low CD. It's still strong

I don't understand the lightning rod nerf.

Tornado increased cooldown is justified - it was indeed more than oppressing even on a support build not running Zerker. I was referring to the stupid nerf to LR. Just because someone with big IQ and top-notch pvp skills makes a "LR OP! PLEASE NERF!!!!" thread on the forums, it's not a valid reason to nerf this skill or any other. Sadly, anet seems to only listen to a certain small but very vocal minority of the forums.

LR was OP and it still is OP. the fact that you can make a build that relies entirely on 1 trait should tell you about how good it is

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Drennon.7190 said:That thief nerf xD as always, just had to nerf teef.

to be fair unblockable aoe daze with poison field is insane. I wish they'd just remove the kitten daze they added and reset to base initiative cost though.

Is has a very fair tell and slow missile speed, so you can either dodge the daze application or just move away from the impact.

Yes assuming its just the 2 of you and nothing else going on,

a sudden aoe daze in a middle if a team fight isn't so easy to dodge that when all other sorts of stuff is going on.

Think most people would rather it be 4/5 ini and revert it, or even remove the daze altogether

Same goes for other, more impactful than a simple daze, stuff.

[Rednaxela.6018]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:LR was OP and it still is OP. the fact that you can make a build that relies entirely on 1 trait should tell you about how good it is

What kind of reasoning is that? Just because a skill defines the playing style, it is not too strong! Or do you want to nerf/delete Fresh Air because it also defines the build. Another example:Deadeye: Silent ScopeTornado in combination with LR was the problem, not LR as such. There are maybe 5 LR Weaver players in the top 250. There are almost no LR Weaver in the tournaments but the experts here in the forum know what op is. So please stop talking that kind of bullshit. You got your nerf, be happy and still die against better players...

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Rednaxela.6018 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:LR was OP and it still is OP. the fact that you can make a build that relies entirely on 1 trait should tell you about how good it is

What kind of reasoning is that? Just because a skill defines the playing style, it is not too strong! Or do you want to nerf/delete Fresh Air because it also defines the build. Another example:Deadeye: Silent ScopeTornado in combination with LR was the problem, not LR as such. There are maybe 5 LR Weaver players in the top 250. There are almost no LR Weaver in the tournaments but the experts here in the forum know what op is. So please stop talking that kind of kitten. You got your nerf, be happy and still die against better players...

As far as DE maybe not silent scopes precision but it would be smart to remove stealth on dodge, along with kneel lol.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Rednaxela.6018 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:LR was OP and it still is OP. the fact that you can make a build that relies entirely on 1 trait should tell you about how good it is

What kind of reasoning is that? Just because a skill defines the playing style, it is not too strong! Or do you want to nerf/delete Fresh Air because it also defines the build. Another example:Deadeye: Silent ScopeTornado in combination with LR was the problem, not LR as such. There are maybe 5 LR Weaver players in the top 250. There are almost no LR Weaver in the tournaments but the experts here in the forum know what op is. So please stop talking that kind of kitten. You got your nerf, be happy and still die against better players...

LR promotes toxic gameplay, rewards mindless spam, hard counters things for no reason.Permanent weakness is stupid in a trait that deals insufferable level of damage.Lost time was removed for a reason, LR needs to be finally addressed too, its a ticking time bomb that sooner or later will be OP again, it will be "fine" now, but 6 months from now it will end up broken again when numbers shift.

[mistsim.2748]

@wevh.2903 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:I haven't even read it yet, just grateful to still see updates coming in

Well as long as you aren't a Ranger main, you'll be satisfied.

Ranger/Soulbeast was destroyed this patch.

Welcome to Prot Holo side node meta and Boyer on a Druid.

See you in game boys.

Prot holo (ranger biggest counter) got hard nerfed along LR weaver , ranger only got increased cd on gs what if pretty fine .Ranger is now more playable than before xd

For those of us who weren't using deer, tiger, or greatsword on our ranger builds, this patch just kept on giving. Trevor is all melodrama. Literally the only spec I struggled 1v1'ing was the prot holo, and holos ate quite a few nerfs.

[Rednaxela.6018]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:LR promotes toxic gameplay, rewards mindless spam, hard counters things for no reason.What kind of argument is that? As soon as something is annoying it should be deleted/nerfed? Completely subjective. For me, thiefs promote toxic gameplay, too... so just delete them. It gets hard countered by nearly any condi class, so "hard counters things for no reason" is stupid af. Did you ever play lr after the dmg nerf? Your lr crits as berserker and all modifiers with 2-2.5k. You have to match them with hard hitting skills like burning speed or plasma burst to get someone down. Just spamming wont work.Permanent weakness is stupid in a trait that deals insufferable level of damage.Yes perma weakness is kinda stupid, i totally agree. Just remove it or decrease the duration and i m fine with it, but we were talking about the damage nerf.Lost time was removed for a reason, LR needs to be finally addressed too, its a ticking time bomb that sooner or later will be OP again, it will be "fine" now, but 6 months from now it will end up broken again when numbers shift.LR has NEVER been op and if it gets op in 20 years it can be get nerfed, but it is totally stupid to nerf it based on predicting anything.

[ZolracAtrox.2908]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Zuko.7132 said:

@"Drennon.7190" said:That thief nerf xD as always, just had to nerf teef.

to be fair unblockable aoe daze with poison field is insane. I wish they'd just remove the kitten daze they added and reset to base initiative cost though.

This would be a better solution. Anet in the past doesn't usually walk back on decisions even if its ncredibly obvious after that it was a mistake.

That's true, when they nerfed holo in PvE without any sense adding cd in toolbelt while overheat; Forum and Reddit were full of "that's a stupid change, that's a senseless change, you're killing an already mediocre class, you're nerfing a class without a *** idea of how it works, etc". It took many damn months they waited to "fix it"; they preferred to completely change the explosives trait than remove the change.

Right now, killing mortar and Elixir E, they killed more Core Engineer and Scrapper than the Holo. (For PvP)

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Rednaxela.6018 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:LR promotes toxic gameplay, rewards mindless spam, hard counters things for no reason.What kind of argument is that? As soon as something is annoying it should be deleted/nerfed? Completely subjective. For me, thiefs promote toxic gameplay, too... so just delete them. It gets hard countered by nearly any condi class, so "hard counters things for no reason" is stupid af. Did you ever play lr after the dmg nerf? Your lr crits as berserker and all modifiers with 2-2.5k. You have to match them with hard hitting skills like burning speed or plasma burst to get someone down. Just spamming wont work.Permanent weakness is stupid in a trait that deals insufferable level of damage.Yes perma weakness is kinda stupid, i totally agree. Just remove it or decrease the duration and i m fine with it, but we were talking about the damage nerf.Lost time was removed for a reason, LR needs to be finally addressed too, its a ticking time bomb that sooner or later will be OP again, it will be "fine" now, but 6 months from now it will end up broken again when numbers shift.LR has NEVER been op and if it gets op in 20 years it can be get nerfed, but it is totally stupid to nerf it based on predicting anything.

it WAS op and I would not be suprised if it still is, play non broken as fuck power build against LR, 25%-35% stunned, rest of the time weakness, you cant fight back due to perma weakness, and spammed CC that1 some of them is unblockable2 some of them is undodgeable3 some of them ignore terraineven if it hits for 1,5k, people have at BEST 20k HP, you end up in situation where you kill people by spamming CC and landin 1 or 2 hits when enemy cant remove the CC.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Rednaxela.6018 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:LR promotes toxic gameplay, rewards mindless spam, hard counters things for no reason.What kind of argument is that? As soon as something is annoying it should be deleted/nerfed? Completely subjective. For me, thiefs promote toxic gameplay, too... so just delete them. It gets hard countered by nearly any condi class, so "hard counters things for no reason" is stupid af. Did you ever play lr after the dmg nerf? Your lr crits as berserker and all modifiers with 2-2.5k. You have to match them with hard hitting skills like burning speed or plasma burst to get someone down. Just spamming wont work.Permanent weakness is stupid in a trait that deals insufferable level of damage.Yes perma weakness is kinda stupid, i totally agree. Just remove it or decrease the duration and i m fine with it, but we were talking about the damage nerf.Lost time was removed for a reason, LR needs to be finally addressed too, its a ticking time bomb that sooner or later will be OP again, it will be "fine" now, but 6 months from now it will end up broken again when numbers shift.LR has NEVER been op and if it gets op in 20 years it can be get nerfed, but it is totally stupid to nerf it based on predicting anything.

It's really pointless arguing with certain individuals. There is a small but very vocal group of folks here who constantly cry for nerfs with having little to zero experience in regards to class / skill / issue they demand nerfs to. Anet sadly listens to those. The group gets their nerf, is happy for a day and finds a new target to complain about. Better move on and as you said yourself, enjoy kicking the kitten our of them in the arena :) Cheers!

[Xca.9721]

Revenant will probably get adressed soon in another patch. I just hope they make the right adjustments and not just increase the energy cost for Riposting Shadows to 50 or some bullshit =)

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Xca.9721 said:Revenant will probably get adressed soon in another patch. I just hope they make the right adjustments and not just increase the energy cost for Riposting Shadows to 50 or some kitten =)

They'll add a root to the entire duration of Surge of the Mists and take away the evade

[Rednaxela.6018]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:it WAS op and I would not be suprised if it still is, play non broken as kitten power build against LR, 25%-35% stunned, rest of the time weakness, you cant fight back due to perma weakness, and spammed CC that1 some of them is unblockable2 some of them is undodgeable3 some of them ignore terraineven if it hits for 1,5k, people have at BEST 20k HP, you end up in situation where you kill people by spamming CC and landin 1 or 2 hits when enemy cant remove the CC.If it was op, why was it played by almost no top player? Just because you are not able to play intelligently against the class in bronze - gold does not mean that something is op. But since you ignore all facts anyway and have no arguments, the discussion is over for me here. Keep on whining and demand nerfs for all the things you don't like.

@ollbirtan.2915 said:It's really pointless arguing with certain individuals. There is a small but very vocal group of folks here who constantly cry for nerfs with having little to zero experience in regards to class / skill / issue they demand nerfs to. Anet sadly listens to those. The group gets their nerf, is happy for a day and finds a new target to complain about. Better move on and as you said yourself, enjoy kicking the kitten our of them in the arena :) Cheers!Yeah, I know, but sometimes the point is reached where so much shit is said, where you have to intervene. Of course you´re right, that it's useless. But anyway cya in pvp, i m out here. ;)

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Rednaxela.6018 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:it WAS op and I would not be suprised if it still is, play non broken as kitten power build against LR, 25%-35% stunned, rest of the time weakness, you cant fight back due to perma weakness, and spammed CC that1 some of them is unblockable2 some of them is undodgeable3 some of them ignore terraineven if it hits for 1,5k, people have at BEST 20k HP, you end up in situation where you kill people by spamming CC and landin 1 or 2 hits when enemy cant remove the CC.If it was op, why was it played by almost no top player? Just because you are not able to play intelligently against the class in bronze - gold does not mean that something is op. But since you ignore all facts anyway and have no arguments, the discussion is over for me here. Keep on whining and demand nerfs for all the things you don't like.

@ollbirtan.2915 said:It's really pointless arguing with certain individuals. There is a small but very vocal group of folks here who constantly cry for nerfs with having little to zero experience in regards to class / skill / issue they demand nerfs to. Anet sadly listens to those. The group gets their nerf, is happy for a day and finds a new target to complain about. Better move on and as you said yourself, enjoy kicking the kitten our of them in the arena :) Cheers!Yeah, I know, but sometimes the point is reached where so much kitten is said, where you have to intervene. Of course you´re right, that it's useless. But anyway cya in pvp, i m out here. ;)

First stop assuming things, sec i wasnt demanding anything, it was broken and got nerfed, deal with it

[bravan.3876]

LR should only proc on interrupt. I never was a fan of cc spam reward traits. If you have simple cc spam rewards then they need to be weak, because low effort and way less counters. Also the only cc that should go through evades and/ or blocks are ground targeting skills with good animation and decent casttime, for certain not Shocking Aura. Slick shoes is hard near the limit.

[Teacher.6701]

@bravan.3876 said:LR should only proc on interrupt. I never was a fan of cc spam reward traits. If you have simple cc spam rewards then they need to be weak, because low effort and way less counters. Also the only cc that should go through evades and/ or blocks are ground targeting skills with good animation and decent casttime, for certain not Shocking Aura. Slick shoes is hard near the limit.

I'd say slick shoes are barely ok but shocking aura needs to die as fast as possible and go into chamber of forgotten, it makes no sense to make other auras give slight buffs and this one so op or at least nerf it to 1 proc/person or make it daze instead of stun. Btw same goes for engi shield 5, these stuns are so stupid and with no cd at all which makes even less sense.