Thank you for the PvP balance update

[Lahmia.2193]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Choking Gas. 7 initiative. What the kitten? Why did ANet think that putting an unblockable AoE daze on a skill was even a good idea to begin with? Seems like Thief is getting the Rev treatment: powercreep the skill and overinflate the cost. Meh. Not a fan.

I'm glad someone else is saying this. Anet has a bad habit of changing skills that were fine and when they become busted, lazy nerf them. It makes me dread any kind of rework.

I'm still bitter about Chilling Darkness nerf and that was 5 years ago.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:reason why rev is missed probably because after all these classes nerfed, thief can get more play which pressures rev.

Rev is in no way okay just because thief exists. After these nerfs to other classes even more so.

Condi revs OP cuz condi in general is OP especially burning. Power shiro is very strong if ur a great player and if ur not than the build gets destroyed, that's how it should be for the most part and half the reason this games in such a gbage state. Sure few aspects of power rev may be slightly over tuned but that's only aperant again if ur a good player. Look at war I'd argue it's not in a very good state right now, not horrible but not that good either yet u put a okish player on a warrior and a okish player on power rev and who u thinks gonna fare better?This game needs have more classes or builds like power rev and the few others that actually take skill and some brain power to play so why shouldn't they be strong compared to most of the braindead spam fest that a lot of the roster has been turned into lol.I dont know the presence rev has in plat but in gold I hardly ever see them, literally one of the classes I see the least despite it being one of the strongest builds a good player can play. The fact that the player community bandwagons every new meta to the next few outliers which I'm sure we can all agree happens why after all these years of revs OP complains does it never seem to get bandwagoned to, I kno its cuz it's hard to play.

[Zuko.7132]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:reason why rev is missed probably because after all these classes nerfed, thief can get more play which pressures rev.

Rev is in no way okay just because thief exists. After these nerfs to other classes even more so.

Condi revs OP cuz condi in general is OP especially burning. Power shiro is very strong if ur a great player and if ur not than the build gets destroyed, that's how it should be for the most part and half the reason this games in such a gbage state. Sure few aspects of power rev may be slightly over tuned but that's only aperant again if ur a good player. Look at war I'd argue it's not in a very good state right now, not horrible but not that good either yet u put a okish player on a warrior and a okish player on power rev and who u thinks gonna fare better?This game needs have more classes or builds like power rev and the few others that actually take skill and some brain power to play so why shouldn't they be strong compared to most of the braindead spam fest that a lot of the roster has been turned into lol.

I'm fine with them being strong compared to braindead spamfest as you put it, but they should be balanced to be equivalent to good players on other classes as well. Power shiro is overtuned. I don't want it gutted, but I do want it brought in line with other top tier builds played by good players. It needs some shaves.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:reason why rev is missed probably because after all these classes nerfed, thief can get more play which pressures rev.

Rev is in no way okay just because thief exists. After these nerfs to other classes even more so.

Condi revs OP cuz condi in general is OP especially burning. Power shiro is very strong if ur a great player and if ur not than the build gets destroyed, that's how it should be for the most part and half the reason this games in such a gbage state. Sure few aspects of power rev may be slightly over tuned but that's only aperant again if ur a good player. Look at war I'd argue it's not in a very good state right now, not horrible but not that good either yet u put a okish player on a warrior and a okish player on power rev and who u thinks gonna fare better?This game needs have more classes or builds like power rev and the few others that actually take skill and some brain power to play so why shouldn't they be strong compared to most of the braindead spam fest that a lot of the roster has been turned into lol.

I'm fine with them being strong compared to braindead spamfest as you put it, but they should be balanced to be equivalent to good players on other classes as well. Power shiro is overtuned. I don't want it gutted, but I do want it brought in line with other top tier builds played by good players. It needs some shaves.

I can't argue with that. Just with anets balancing methods if they set their sights on it itl end up a hard to play and useless class at the same time. I'm just afraid of seeing one of the few skillful feeling builds left get dumpsters by thier poor balancing. I want more powerful effective builds that are hard to play classes in the game not less.Game keeps getting dumbed down over the yrs unfortunately.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@ParadoX.3124 said:Revs dodging the nerf like Neo

Well if you would git gud like Neo, you wouldn't even have to dodge.

[bravan.3876]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why they nerfed gazelle instead birds?

If you didn't know, birds die.

Still the dmg is broken. They nerfed tiger but not bird and went for gazelle instead. Makes no sense to me.

I believe that at the contrary of players..the devs want to keep the professions ...playable to say the least

Keeping the class playable based on a broken npc passive dmg is not a way of good balance. Nerf Rangers own skills a bit less in return but the bird needs nerfs in dmg. It is the same as tiger, means it makes no sense to nerf tiger but not birds.

[Supreme.3164]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why they nerfed gazelle instead birds?

If you didn't know, birds die.

Still the dmg is broken. They nerfed tiger but not bird and went for gazelle instead. Makes no sense to me.

I believe that at the contrary of players..the devs want to keep the professions ...playable to say the least

Keeping the class playable based on a broken npc passive dmg is not a way of good balance. Nerf Rangers own skills a bit less in return but the bird needs nerfs in dmg. It is the same as tiger, means it makes no sense to nerf tiger but not birds.

@bravan.3876 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why they nerfed gazelle instead birds?

If you didn't know, birds die.

Still the dmg is broken. They nerfed tiger but not bird and went for gazelle instead. Makes no sense to me.

I believe that at the contrary of players..the devs want to keep the professions ...playable to say the least

Keeping the class playable based on a broken npc passive dmg is not a way of good balance. Nerf Rangers own skills a bit less in return but the bird needs nerfs in dmg. It is the same as tiger, means it makes no sense to nerf tiger but not birds.

When you will understand that the pet is ranger mechanic and not some extra NPC doing free dmg..your request will be reasonable, for the ranger class the dmg is halved between the ranger and the pet..so it's not free dmg, ranger pets are not summon ....

Now suggesting that ranger pet may do too much dmg can be considered a very valid point...on the other end suggesting that ranger pet is a NPC and should be no threat is not as valid, now you can either accept that the pets are integral to the class gameplay..or you can propose a valide alternative to them..but people should really stop thinking that those pets are NPC doing free dmg

[Stallic.2397]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Great! Let's nerf skills for struggling classes like ele, and remove MORE AMULETS. PVP is definitely heading into the direction of "just your loincloth and a stick" So much for diversity!

I honestly don't understand how Anet expects Ele's to survive against stealth burst classes (engi/mes/thief). Self healing has been nerfed, toughness and vitality are getting kicked out the door, and all the skills that helped Ele's survive are gutted (ToF, Obsidian Flesh, Armor of Earth, etc.)

[Teacher.6701]

I wonder if Anet have in their dictionary word "buff"? All nerfs this time were on point, I think we need some more but we also need fricking buffs to some classes/builds. Give us more options! This meta is so cancer right now and after this patch probably almost nothing will change, except many rangers will go holo or condi rev. Also condi thief will be cancer for next 3 months? God please help us. This patch would be great if it was added 2 weeks after first patch but waiting so long for minor changes? Plz give us more frequet patches! If you want to make PvP truly balanced do it faster with patches like this or give us MUCH bigger changes WITH BUFFS as well or else we will wait 2 years to see good balance.plz buff warriors and mesmers, in higher league they are almost non-existent and HARD underperforming compared to other classes.

seriously just buff a few things that are bad now so new builds can be made and this cancer meta will change.

[mistsim.2748]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Great! Let's nerf skills for struggling classes like ele, and remove MORE AMULETS. PVP is definitely heading into the direction of "just your loincloth and a stick" So much for diversity!

Tornado on a zerker ele is oppressive AF. It had an insanely low CD. It's still strong

I don't understand the lightning rod nerf.

@Bossun.2046 said:

Glad to see something come out but then again it feels as if it's only made according to the posts here on the forums rather than to actually improve the overall balance in every spec. Like how it was before CMC took over. Feels the same

I like CMC's balance changes, they've all been spot on. This time around, I feel both low and high tier players were complaining about the same things (ranger pets, holo, necro sustain), and the nerfs reflected that.

[Tayga.3192]

Revenant be like "E V A D E D"

Jokes aside, this seems like we might have some reworks coming soon.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"Tayga.3192" said:Revenant be like "E V A D E D"

Jokes aside, this seems like we might have some reworks coming soon.

Fingers crossed for a DE one. Dont think the current situation satisfies anyone.

[JTGuevara.9018]

Once again! Great patch! I think the changes are spot-on, these classes seems to be the consensus among high and low tier players alike.

[Tayga.3192]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Fingers crossed for a DE one. Dont think the current situation satisfies anyone.

Deadeye counters my build and unless they go "almost oneshot" with d/p + rifle (pure damage memes) I can easily kill them. It really feels bad to play in pvp.

However, it'll be very annoying in its current state if it gets buffed. Hopefully they don't buff it directly and give a rework instead.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Fingers crossed for a DE one. Dont think the current situation satisfies anyone.

Deadeye counters my build and unless they go "almost oneshot" with d/p + rifle (pure damage memes) I can easily kill them. It really feels bad to play in pvp.

However, it'll be very annoying in its current state if it gets buffed. Hopefully they don't buff it directly and give a rework instead.

I just want them to remove kneel and make it not have to stealth up to use DJ. It sucks having to use stealth just because you dont do damage otherwise.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Choking Gas. 7 initiative. What the kitten? Why did ANet think that putting an unblockable AoE daze on a skill was even a good idea to begin with? Seems like Thief is getting the Rev treatment: powercreep the skill and overinflate the cost. Meh. Not a fan.

Absolutely this. 7 initiative is 46% of the Initiative pool (assuming Trickery). That's insane.

[fluffypaws.2860]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

ThiefVault: This skill no longer ignores the immobile condition.

[

SPITS OUT COFFEE

]

LMAO :) My Favourite Lady Charr Teef :)

[bravan.3876]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why they nerfed gazelle instead birds?

If you didn't know, birds die.

Still the dmg is broken. They nerfed tiger but not bird and went for gazelle instead. Makes no sense to me.

I believe that at the contrary of players..the devs want to keep the professions ...playable to say the least

Keeping the class playable based on a broken npc passive dmg is not a way of good balance. Nerf Rangers own skills a bit less in return but the bird needs nerfs in dmg. It is the same as tiger, means it makes no sense to nerf tiger but not birds.

@bravan.3876 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why they nerfed gazelle instead birds?

If you didn't know, birds die.

Still the dmg is broken. They nerfed tiger but not bird and went for gazelle instead. Makes no sense to me.

I believe that at the contrary of players..the devs want to keep the professions ...playable to say the least

Keeping the class playable based on a broken npc passive dmg is not a way of good balance. Nerf Rangers own skills a bit less in return but the bird needs nerfs in dmg. It is the same as tiger, means it makes no sense to nerf tiger but not birds.

When you will understand that the pet is ranger mechanic and not some extra NPC doing free dmg..your request will be reasonable, for the ranger class the dmg is halved between the ranger and the pet..so it's not free dmg, ranger pets are not summon ....

Now suggesting that ranger pet may do too much dmg can be considered a very valid point...on the other end suggesting that ranger pet is a NPC and should be no threat is not as valid, now you can either accept that the pets are integral to the class gameplay..or you can propose a valide alternative to them..but people should really stop thinking that those pets are NPC doing free dmg

You would be right if the pet would not have skills automatically activating by themself without Ranger pressing a button. But as long as Ranger has skills activated by the game alone it is passive dmg and passive hard cc. And i don't even start to argue about if the pet is an npc or not, ofc it is. I already made suggestions for a pet rework to more utility focus instead passive dmg/ hard cc but that is not the point. The point is, that bird dmg is op, we had the same with tiger and tiger got nerfed but not bird.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Drennon.7190 said:That thief nerf xD as always, just had to nerf teef.

to be fair unblockable aoe daze with poison field is insane. I wish they'd just remove the kitten daze they added and reset to base initiative cost though.

Is has a very fair tell and slow missile speed, so you can either dodge the daze application or just move away from the impact.

[Cyric.7813]

TY for pvp update, now i have more free time to play other games)

[NotFound.7813]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:I haven't even read it yet, just grateful to still see updates coming in

Well as long as you aren't a Ranger main, you'll be satisfied.

Ranger/Soulbeast was destroyed this patch.

Welcome to Prot Holo side node meta and Boyer on a Druid.

See you in game boys.

Prot holo (ranger biggest counter) got hard nerfed along LR weaver , ranger only got increased cd on gs what if pretty fine .Ranger is now more playable than before xd

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@wevh.2903 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:I haven't even read it yet, just grateful to still see updates coming in

Well as long as you aren't a Ranger main, you'll be satisfied.

Ranger/Soulbeast was destroyed this patch.

Welcome to Prot Holo side node meta and Boyer on a Druid.

See you in game boys.

Prot holo (ranger biggest counter) got hard nerfed along LR weaver , ranger only got increased cd on gs what if pretty fine .Ranger is now more playable than before xd

That feeling when a guy who doesn't even read patch notes assures you it'll be 'better than before'.

[ILoveMonotony.1479]

Yup, good job. :)

[Altaiz.3570]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Decent nerfs overall, sadly they overlooked condithief. Which is by itself always a spec that exists due to overlooked things.

Well they also missed explosives traitline of holo especially “flash bang” and renegade nerfs

[Luthan.5236]

I like the update for reducing the toughness/vitality stuff. (Removing certain amulets.) Matches felt a bit "smoother" yesterday though I did not play a lot. (I still played more than my 1 daily to try it out a bit.)

I'm playing at low skill tier and I play "fun" builds that did not get nerfed. I wonder though if it wouldn't have been enough to nerf certain skills (CD, duratoin, etc.) and traits of bunker-ish builds.

I mean: First we got the overall reduction of damage. Not it seems some guys died to slow and certain amulets got nerfed. So ... the guys that died too fast before the big first patch (that reduced lots of damage) now die less fast. The guys that died slow died even slower and now are back to the normal amount of slow dying. (First damage recuding patch made them evem more bunker-ish. Not it is countered by removing certain amulets.)

Maybe give everyone the same stats (no amulet?) except the health pool and armor which are basically part of the class/professoin.