Catalyst Feedback Thread

[Shadow Phage.9084]

Catalyst was one of the beta specs I was most interested in trying. It, unfortunately, became one of the most disappointing beta specs that I've tried.

 

Thoughts on Catalyst:

--Played it a little bit; stopped playing it because I did not like it as it currently exists.

--Pointless complexity. Could have renamed it from Catalyst to Excessive Resource Management.

--Catalyst reads as an Auramancer spec, but Tempest already does that and arguably does it better. It also reads like it wants to be a combo-centric(field and finisher) spec, but doesn't really have the tools to do it.

--It ends up feeling like a bit of Tempest mixed with mostly Core-spec with extra steps and nothing truly gameplay changing.

--It also feels like its trying to do too many different things simultaneously, and has come out mediocre at all of them.

 

Specific Gripes:

--For a class designed around combos and auras, it has a decidedly limited ability to generate either with its E-Spec specific weapon and utilities.

--Hammer has four finishers, one for each Attunement (3 blast, 1 leap), no fields, and no way to transmute your auras.

--I don't get why Hammer 3 needs a 4-Attunement mini-game.

--I also don't understand why Jade Sphere is triply resource taxed by: Energy (twice), and a longish cooldown. You are taxed to deploy it (Energy, i.e. Ele Adrenaline); taxed again if you recall it early (lose all Energy), and taxed a 3rd time by cooldown.

--Augments don't seem to have the proper power levels for jumping through all the hoops to get their bonus effects (Jade Sphere deployed + Attunement + matching Augment.) That's a lot of opportunity cost for what are generally poor payouts.

--Augments do not interact with your traits. At all.

--Hammer skills have enormous tells. Not really a problem in PvE, but in PvP it does matter.

 

Personal Suggestions:

--Don't tax Jade Sphere so heavily. Especially get rid of the recall tax. That tax has no place in a game based on mobility.

--Give augments some traits. Also, make them less dependent on aligning the stars for their bonus effects.

--Give augments finishers, or something else to spice them up.

--Go HAM on the combo-centric part of the spec. Make Catalyst THE combo specialist of Elementalist, instead the sorta-Tempest/sorta-Core/sorta-combo-master its currently trying to be. Move some of its aura power into fields and finishers.

----Try crazy stuff, such as allowing Catalysts finishers to combo off of each type of field present, simultaneously.

----Make Jade Sphere STACK field types on Attunement swap, rather than replacing them. Don't need to stack damage ticks.

----Make Hammer THE combo field/finisher weapon set for Elementalist.

[Anthony.8056]

I want to get straight to the point...

 

1. The jade sphere-

         I like the animations and purpose for it but it doesn't last long enough for anybody to enjoy. Having to build energy in combat for a short duration isn't good plus it's stationary and on top of that has a cool down. Also, it has one trait that affects energy  while the other traits that revolve around the sphere are boon related. I wish the sphere would move with you or instead of recalling it teleported to your location to get more use out of it.

 

2. The Augments-

         I understand you have to make a lot of skills for this class but at least make them interesting and useful, as of current iteration they are not impactful I forgot that I had them  as utilities because I was to busy trying to juggle multiple things with this spec. If it did some effect with the the animal inside the sphere like for example "have the fire phoenix fly up and explode giving the benefits of the augment to yourself while causing a wave of flame in inflict burning to surrounding enemies" or something like that depending on the element. The elite is also lacking because yes it does reduce the cooldown of your skills but the elementalist has 20 plus skills to use unless you are just focusing on one specific skill but it still isn't worth it. I still don't understand why this class doesn't get a good damage elite especially for a class that is a master of elements.

 

3. Hammer 3 skill-

           With everything already going on with this spec the jade sphere energy management/cooldown, the combo fields, the auras, the augments and the trait elemental empowerment everything in order for it to be benificial to maximize your class why would giving another management thing on top of everything be a good idea. It feels like this should be a profession mechanic not tied to a weapon. When I first saw the trailer for it it reminded me of the weaver elite ,with the elements swirling around it but a better version. In all honesty this should be the weaver elite skill instead of a hammer skill, it just doesn't make sense with everything else going on. I doubt that would happen but that is just my opinion anyway back to the topic, this does not last long enough to even use in a fast paced scenerio with manageing the jade sphere and the payoff isn't that grand to cycle through all elements. Also, with it not lasting long enough it gets cancelled on block and other things which makes it useless. I like this skill itself but it needs improvement for it to be viable.

 

4. The Hammer skills-

          Fire/ It feels weird to have half of the elements with range and half melee. The first two skills on fire are really slow and don't feel right. The fourth skill also feels weird, out of place and weak. I know in order to get proper use out of it needs to be centered around the enemy add that to the million other things I'm doing with this spec. It should also be a fire field why it is not is beyond me. The fifth skill I would merge the fourth skill with this one.

 

          Air/ I like skill 2 and 4 the best out of this entire weapon because they feel strong and powerful what my opinion of an elementalist should be, unfortunatly the rest of the skills on the hammer don't feel the same. I will say skill 2 should have a whirl finisher. Skill 5 should have an animation change it looks and feels weak.

 

         Water/ Once again it feels slow and being in melee range of this attunement doesn't feel right and it has a lack of animations on it. Skill 5 doen't feel or look like a typhoon for that skill.

 

         Earth/ Slow and lack of animations. Skill 1 feels like it should be a chain or something. Skill 2 is slow and should be a whirl finisher. Skill 3 is just there and skill 4 is okayish.

 

Overall, it need more combo finishers for a spec that has a mechanic that creates combo fields that are lacking on the hammer. The management energy and cooldown of the jade sphere and time upkeep on hammer 3 need to be looked at. P.s i apologize for the spelling and punctuation errors and long paragraphs.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Anthony.8056

[skoda.4619]

I've had a bit of a think about the hammer and I'm not sure if it's just me but these skills seem a better fit for a greatsword than a hammer.
Weapon lacks cc's, it has whirls and water has an attack similar to hundred blades which fit more on a greatsword, only 2 skills that are more hammer oriented are fire and earth 5...

I know especially elementalist could use weapons a lot differently than a melee class even tho you can't spell melee without ele but it still feels a bit off...

Edited September 25, 2021 by skoda.4619

[Arkaile.5604]

So, I've had some time to think about Catalyst. I don't like it, I'd probably never use it, I might not even train up the e-spec unless the hammer it gets from its collection is really neat. Why? Let's gloss over a few reasons which themselves are a massive issue, but the Jade Sphere and its effects across different attunements bothers me most as that is honestly the thing I find most baffling as it's an enormous, missed opportunity.

 

The first is the hammer's skills. Give that thing combo fields or there's no reason to use it on a spec which is all about using combos. It needs more tweaking beyond this, but it would be a start assuming the Jade Sphere isn't meant to be spammable.

The second is cooldowns and the durations of all the special effects. Hammer 3 in all its attunements needs to be easier to maintain and more rewarding if you manage to fire off all four orbs. Hardened Auras and Empowered Auras need to last at least 8sec instead of the current 6sec and the cooldown on Elemental Epitome needs to be decreased from 10sec to at least 8sec. Adjust these for the different game modes as necessary, but they need to be easier to maintain. Ele players have enough headaches to deal with as is.

 

As honourable mentions, I bring up the heal, all the utilities, and the elite skill. What's even going on with these things?

 

And now, the most interesting but also least impactful part of Catalyst: the Jade Sphere.

Why the heck does this thing have the same effects across all the different attunements save for the boon and type of combo field? Fire should apply a low duration pulsing burn to enemies, water should heal allies instead of damaging enemies or at least apply a half second of chill, and earth could apply torment as that synergizes with immobilize which weapons have access to while in that attunement. The only one which is fine as is would be air, but even that one could do with a little bump up in damage or added vulnerability application.

 

And finally, the slap to the face every Elementalist main felt upon seeing this trait: Energized Elements.

If fury on attunement swap was such an issue that it had to be removed from the arcane trait line, why bring it back for Catalyst? If it's not overpowered, put it back where it belongs, in its former slot as the minor adept trait of the arcane trait line, or, if it really is that much of a balance issue, outright delete fury on attunement swap from Ele's traits and never bring it back. Pick one.

 

PS: To all the players posting in these feedback threads, let's be real here - we're about four months out from the release of EoD and ANet doesn't have the manpower necessary to redesign everything that people want redesigned across all nine e-specs in so little time. We're getting number tweaks, a few bug fixes, and that's it; what we're seeing in these beta events is almost exactly what we're getting on launch.

[Mattmatt.4962]

I'll build my feedback around 2 different thing, the spec, and the weapon.

The spec:

The mechanics is simple, and simple is good but it needs tons of adjustment.

Traits are good. A lot of people mentionned: it's a bit weird that none are related to energy gain ....

Well considering that the orb mechanics need a lot of adjustment maybe such  trait would be irrelevant. Cause, let's face it, the orb mechanics just need straigh buffs. it's too hard to charge right now for how low reward it is. Most pve encounter are done before the energy is filled, and the orb is utterly useless in a competitive environnement.

Making it centered on the player and following him would be an interesting idea that have been suggested many time. From there we can slowly start buffing the effect or the energy flow till we get to a balanced state.

 

____________________

 

The hammer:

i'll be blunt: the weapon is a JOKE.

The weapon has NO COMBO FIELD ..... i repeat: NO COMBO FIELD ..... for a class that relies on combos it's a joke ... feven more when the spec catalyst seems to be focused around combos ..... heck the hammer is probably the worst weapon to combo! 4finisher on super long CDs is weak ... and one more time : NO COMBO FIELD!

 

and that's only a general thing, now we can go more in depth. Most skill are either weak, either so telegraphed that you cant expect to land them. (some are even both!).

The weapon offers close to no defense, and no mobility ..... how is an ele meant to survive with that ?

If at least the damage where there, ok i could understand; one shouldnt have damage, survivability and mobility.
But that weapon simply have nothing.. it's slow, it's short range, damage is low, survivabily is inexistant, mobility is inexistant.

Only way to play catalyst as of now is playing Dager Dager with Fire trait so you can have a steady flow of aura and self sustain catalyst's aura related trait.
It's not a bad thing that old(/core) weapon are relevant for an elite spec .... but beeing relevant (or even META) doesnt mean that the weapon attached to the spec should be trash.

[Avalon.4809]

21 hours ago, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

1) Can you share your build?

2) The fact that you could not finish a champ bounty within the time limit reflects the weakness of the Catalyst spec.

I used marauder gear with berserker weapons.

I didn't do much damage to champ bounty. At last minutes some other people came to fight along but they didn't do much either and died. I don't think many people can kill it all alone.

https://i.imgur.com/AVATLGi.jpg

[luigrein.8514]

I agree with a lot of the comments I've been seeing, figured I'd toss an idea in, even if I think it's too big of a change to be implemented before launch.

 

Part 1: Make a couple more hammer attacks finishers (this part is probably doable)

Part 2: Rework hammer 3, initial hit creates a combo field anchored to the player of the appropriate type (same as the jade sphere types) that pulses some minor effect, duration extends to indefinite*.  When activated while an orb is out, convert the combo field and any existing orbs have their durations set to 5 seconds and keep pulsing their effect until they expire. The flip skill if you already have the element you are attuned orbiting calls the jade sphere to you, relocating it's zone. (I'm reluctant to stick a trait mechanic so directly on a weapon but at least its not like you can use hammer in other specs)

 

*Literal indefinite durations wouldn't work (we don't need the orbs while we reorganize our banks) but either an out of combat trigger to shut them off or a base duration of a minute or something should achieve the same effect in combat.

 

Basically, go in on the combo specialist identity by making sure they are always available.

[bruakumfd.4817]

I’m glad that ArenaNet proved us wrong with the hammer since Fire and  Air attunements are ranged. Also, I’m convinced the game swapped my games without my permission since I had to fight a Veteran Oakheart with a staff.

 

I also found the limited range could be a bit annoying, and the healing skill wasn’t strong enough for me. On the plus side, the Jade Spheres are so cool, and it’s easy to build up energy.

[74823776-FD2B-49C4-8095-DF18A1D8BAFA.8134]

I must point out that I have made a forum post with a load of text explaining some of my problems with the current Catalyst Elite spec. Due to the size of the post, I decided it to be unwise to post it in a comment. However, my main point is that a melee class that is forced to be immobile by design is a bad idea. The Jade Sphere Forces you to stay inside it to have any effect and it's completely immobile and even punishing to deactivate as it takes away all your energy. An even bigger issue is that for a class that is focused on blasting, it has no fields on hammer forcing reliance on Jade sphere with a 15seconds cooldown. Combine that with a lack of mobility on hammer I don't see it competing in any competitive game mode without being an absolute tank able to sustain outnumbered fights. It doesn't have the mobility to run away from a +1 in PVP, nor the sustain or counterpressure.

[Jski.6180]

Its very odd that the trait line feels like its made for an entirely different elite spec but the hammer and utility set dose not feel like it fits the cata and combo mind set at all. Its just weaid set of chose anet made with cata.

[Shena Fu.5792]

What's the point of this elite? It feels nothing special at all. So elementalist gets an extra action button. That's it?

 

So it creates a small, short-lived combo field with boons. Support class?

 

Hammer is somewhat fun. Doesn't feel slow, compared to Warrior or Guardian.

 

The problem with GW2 design. They make a class centered around combos, but don't give you enough finishers and they have super long cooldowns. I want 2-3 times more finishers on my weapons.

 

Conclusion: Doesn't feel elite at all. No reason to play this.

[Pastelie.9530]

So Im writing this from the perspective of a relatively inexperienced ele main who's entire focus has been on pve.

I think that what the catalyst has in its kit is great and can be fixed up with a bit of number tuning/QoL stuff. what my main issue with the catalyst so far is that it feels like everything is in the wrong place. like the jade sphere is a cool mechanic with cool visuals, but it doesn't feel impactful enough to be a profession mechanic, I think it should be tweaked a bit and made into the utility skills.
The augment utility skills are cool and I like the effects and ideas behind them but how they are now feels so passive and bland despite a few of them being fairly decent, I think that the augments would suit a lot better being hammer 3 skills because they are interesting but not suuuuuuuuuuuper interesting and they aren't really flashy or anything like that, they feel like they'd be much better suited to the hammer weapon skills instead of the utility skills. and finally, the hammer 3 skills, the orbit skills. these feel super super awesome and super kitten conceptually. the idea of them is so so perfect for an ele spec and they could be amazing with some tuning, But I think the orbit's would shine the best as the F5 profession mechanic. beef up the dmg, beef up the buff and make them last a lot longer and I think that would make for an amazing specialization.

TL;DR, big changes:
-jade sphere should be utility (in the form of wells)
-Augments should be hammer 3 skills.
-Hammer 3 skills should be turned into the profession mechanic and given some serious buffs.
-rework a few traits to play more into the whole idea of being a super combo focused Espec.
-Rework some traits to add a bit of interaction on the weapon/utility skills.
-add more CC options in the hammer/utilities
-More consistent ways of stacking elemental empowerment.

Some smaller scale changes I'd like to see are;
-remove the casting animation from hammer 3 skills to allow for more fluid orbit stacking.
-Increase the range and duration of the jade sphere, and remove the cd on attunement swap.
-Add an auto attack chain to the hammer 1 skill.
-Increase the duration of the hammer 3 skills immensely.
-add more fluidity and QoL to the kit overall.

[Squirrell.4091]

I'm wondering if havind no CD on attunement could solve a part of the problem. 

 

Since there's cooldowns on skills, if we could freely change our element to the one suiting what we want to do, it could add a lot of liberty to ele 

[Kiroshima.8497]

Despite the class being named Catalyst, you basically don't interact with it at all.  There are two traits with MINIMAL interaction, enhancing the boons it grants, and that's about it.

We have a Hammer, and a small sphere, and you're telling me I can't bat this thing around to do cool stuff?

Also, what's up with the utilities?  They also don't manipulate the orb, and instead just generate basic buffs and a bit more if in the sphere radius.

All this results in a class that basically feels like Super Core Ele that occasionally puts boons out after you hit people enough times.

If this class wants to be finisher driven, then instead of just having a token Minor Trait granting aura for performing finishers, finishers need to be the core gimmick.

 

To accomplish this, the Jade Sphere will be modified:
1.) Using a projectile finisher within the jade sphere radius launches the Sphere with the projectile, the sphere also becoming a projectile with the same finisher.

2.) Using a blast finisher within the jade sphere radius will immediately pulse the related sphere effects with a larger radius and target cap (example: blasting Air Jade Sphere will expand the radius to 600 (shout range) and grant quickness to 10 targets).

3.) Using a leap finisher within the jade sphere radius  pulls the sphere with you to your destination.

4.) Using a whirl finisher within the jade sphere radius spins it around you (very close by) to strike enemies or heal allies.

Bonus: Recalling Jade Sphere no longer destroys all remaining energy.

 

To further aid in sphere manipulation, all augments directly move the sphere but drain additional energy, can be canceled with a flip skill.  This makes them work like facets somewhat.
Soothing Water:  Leap Finisher, if the sphere is not near you it will rush towards you with the power of the tides draining energy over time (with a cap).

Shattering Ice: Now a ground target spell, Whirl Finisher.  Spawn an ice tornado that inflicts chill if inside the jade sphere radius, lasts

Relentless Fire: Now a Projectile that doesn't require a target (100% projectile finisher).  Costs a flat amount of energy (5? 10?), fires the jade orb at the target inflicting strike damage and burning.  Passing through the orb radius OR striking an enemy grants the unblockable effect. Maybe lower the cooldown since it costs energy now.

Invigorating Air: Now a Leap Finisher.  Blink a short distance and teleport the sphere to your landing position.

Fortified Earth: Now a Blast Finisher.  Prevents the sphere from moving for a short time due to combo finishers.

Elemental Celerity: Performs as normal, generates bonus energy per hit.

Then adjust hammer to have EVERY finisher (as it is the catalyst weapon).
Then swap out all the aura traits with finisher versions.

Now catalyst is centered around the sphere.

[Mahou.3924]

As the worst skilled player in the GW2 universe, I'm no talking about numbers and deeps but the "feels". I know that the golem numbers with conj. weapons and hammer 3 are good.

The spec felt clumsy to play, partly because of its mish-mashed hybrid dps nature. This may have changed with a focused stat set, instead of the default exotic cele gear, but having all hammer skills do a bit of everything yet nothing too good felt lacklustre. Outside of Earth Jade Sphere, I still felt as "squishy" as with other specs. And despite its aura focus in one trait line (the mid options, I think?), there's hardly any innate combo finisher in hammer, even though its very nature should have at least one blast finisher in it. Or maybe let us detonate the spheres to blast finish in its own combo field?

[gandlethorpe.2641]

Here are my final thoughts after clocking 40+ hours on catalyst, mostly in PvE but a bit in sPvP and WvW. I'm a longtime ele main since GW1 and have endured a lot of frustration during that time, and I know I'm not alone there. However, I do feel like I'm in a minority who greatly enjoys catalyst. With that said, I think it has incredible potential, though I understand the frustrations that I believe turn people off of it before getting to see its strengths.

My impression of what the design team was going for with this spec:
Catalyst is essentially core ele with access to a steroid skill through its Jade Sphere, notably through the previously unobtainable (for eles) quickness boon. However, the defensive boons it provides also play a key role in allowing it to play more aggressively. While these boons are already very powerful in solo play, the ability to provide them to allies makes the catalyst even more effective in group scenarios. These powers come with a highly demanding playstyle, requiring extensive attunement swapping and (new for eles) resource management for the sphere.

The hammer is designed particularly with the sphere in mind, having an advantage over other weapons in generating energy due to having many multihit attacks. It also encourages using every attunement, which plays well in acquiring all the sphere's boons. However, catalyst offers great tools for all weapons.

With practice, catalyst can be a very rewarding experience both in solo and group play. Whereas ele has generally felt like a lot of work for moderate reward to me in the past, I feel like catalyst has finally achieved that high reward for the amount of work put in.

Room for improvement:
Catalyst has an extremely high learning curve, even by ele standards. On top of that, there are a few ways that feel needlessly punishing when trying to work with its mechanics. These two factors, I believe, were the biggest in turning away many players from exploring it further and seeing its strengths. Additionally, there are quite a few skills that simply feel underpowered. In my opinion, only a modest amount of mechanical changes and skill buffs are needed to make this truly an amazing spec.

Jade Sphere and Energy

• First things first, the attunement swap ICD applying to the sphere is one of the worst feeling parts about catalyst. I can't count how many times I interrupted deploying my sphere and only realizing a few seconds later that it never went out. This absolutely must be removed.
• I see a lot of suggestions that the sphere should be mobile. I don't quite agree with this, but I do think it should be easier to reposition. This leads to the next issue.
• Recalling the sphere and losing all energy (and going on full cooldown) feels awful, especially when you miscast, misplace, or simply used it when there weren't many enemies left. I think it would solve a lot of issues if recalling gave some sort of compensation based on the amount of energy left over. For example, lowering the cooldown would make it easier to reposition.
• Energy decaying to 10/30 out of combat also feels a bit restrictive. I'm not sure if removing it completely would be balanced, but 15/30 would feel much more comfortable.
• No way to generate energy out of combat. Oftentimes, you end an encounter with the sphere active, meaning it will drain to 0 and you'll have to start the next combat with nothing. If this is meant to be a balancing factor, perhaps augmentations would be a good place to provide additional energy generation, as they are very underwhelming otherwise.
• When downed, all energy is lost and the sphere is recalled if you rally. This puts you at 10+ seconds not having access to your spec mechanic after rallying. The sphere and energy should not be affected at all by getting downed.
• Trying to use the sphere at 0 energy also puts it on full cooldown. There should be a minimum threshold for activating it.

 

Hammer

• Overall, a solid foundation, but needs a bit more payoff across the board
• Orb projectiles are a fun mechanic but need way too many things aligning to be used effectively. Several ways to buff them, but I'm not sure what is best. If they were instant-cast, I think all other numbers could stay the same. However, if they kept the cast time, then they definitely need a duration buff. It's very easy to run the timer out waiting for other skills to finish casting. AoE could be bigger so that they still hit while in a melee attunement. One nice addition would be to make them fly out straight before orbiting, so that one hit can be guaranteed.
• Notably lacks fields, which I think is fine considering it's the best weapon for powering the sphere. However, it does need a few more finishers, and a few skills would be perfect as whirls (Earth 2 and Air 2).
• Since it lacks fields, Persisting Flames is a completely dead trait when using hammer (unless you take Conjure Flame Axe). If a field isn't added to, say, Fire 4, then please consider making the trait buff apply to non-weapon fire fields.
• Earth 2 has an incredibly slow cast time, yet doesn't feel that powerful.
• Could use a bit more breakbar damage as well as more than one block.

 

Augmentations

• As mentioned earlier, these are very underwhelming, even when the condition is met. However, simple numbers buffs can easily make them worth the opportunity cost of taking one of the stronger core utilities.
• Again, being able to generate energy when the sphere is inactive would be a very appreciated effect. Perhaps this could be tied to a trait if too powerful.

 

Traits

• This is actually the area that I feel is strongest with nothing particularly in need of improvement. As issues with the sphere, hammer, and utilities are fixed, the traits will naturally improve indirectly.

 

UI

• I'm sure this has been brought up countless times, but the energy bar needs to be bigger and more prominent. Holosmith has already solved this layout issue.
• The deploy and recall icons should be more distinct, as it can be hard to tell if your sphere is up when moving around. This might be solved with a bigger bar, as you'd be able to tell if it's draining energy.
• The sphere itself can also be hard to track during chaotic events with lots of effects on screen.

 

sPvP and WvW considerations

• I understand that the sphere is very powerful and that is why the numbers were well below PvE levels for these modes. It did feel a little excessive, with significantly lower boon durations and higher energy drain. In these modes movement is much more erratic, so it is more difficult to take full advantage of the sphere as well as land hits to charge it.
• That said, I can see how difficult it is to balance for these modes given the potential for the sphere to go from unusable to brokenly overpowered.
• I think the above usability improvements for sphere and hammer would go a long way to help it in all game modes before the numbers should be looked at.

Conclusion:
That about sums up all my thoughts after 40+ hours of catalyzing. I see the potential this spec has, and it saddens me that I haven't seen more people enjoying it as I have. I do understand the barrier of entry though, as catalyst didn't really start to click for me until at least 5 hours of playing it. Once improvements are made to make it more accessible and effective for all players from beginners to experts across all game modes, I'm confident this will become a very popular spec.

Edited September 26, 2021 by gandlethorpe.2641

[ovenglove.9528]

I am not sure what Catalyst is supposed to be. Core ele 1.1?

They said in the trailer a steady melee presence. It is much less of a steady melee presence than Weaver is, to the point where I feel that Weaver has completely invalidated Catalyst. Comparatively hammer doesn't have the suvival skills that sword does with the barrier and evades.

I started off using the hammer, but felt if I am focusing on comboing fields I want a weapon set with more finishers, and ended up swapping to dagger/dagger. I ended out swapping the augments for core skills as I felt augments are less effective. What I was left with was basically core ele+, and I feel like that is the most effective iteration of Catalyst which isn't good.

I feel like the Jade sphere lacks impact for a profession skill, it is mostly forgettable. Especially in pvp where having to move made using a stationary field difficult. I think I would like a trait that allows it to move with me, and also a trait that stops it changing with attunements. There isn't a lot of defensive mechanics in the Catalyst kit and I feel like if I could combo a water field with finishers from different attunements it ould help a lot.

As it stands if the expansion launched tomorrow I would play through it on sword weaver. For me I think Catalyst needs a rework before I would want to play it.

Edited September 26, 2021 by ovenglove.9528

[Doomfish.8206]

The design of Catalyst struggles to feel cohesive. There are definitely things I like; the art and animation is all solid, I like that water is getting good DPS skills instead of some undertuned healing skills, and I like that elemental empowerment makes Catalyst incredibly versatile. The fact that power, condi, hybrid, quickness and heal are all possibilities is genuinely exciting. Beyond that though, it has its share of issues:

The hammer feels too slow personally. Obviously it's a hammer and it's not going to be as fast as Sword is, but skills like Earth 2 just feel glacial, especially since it's not that strong a skill for either cDPS or pDPS. It feels weird to have such a slow weapon on a spec which is otherwise incredibly fast paced.

The hammer 3 skills should be instant cast, and their damage shouldn't be hitbox dependent. Make them able to only hit once per rotation and make them rotate closer to the player. The fact that their damage is so much higher than the damage of the orb finisher is also not great because it's a big punish for using the finish early. Maybe make them automatically fire off when they expire? Having to get every last scrap out of a buff is already Weaver's thing.

For a spec focused on combos the selection of finishers it has is pretty mediocre. From a balance perspective maybe it makes sense to only have 4 finishers, but it feels a bit lame and doubly so when 3 of them are blast finishers and 1 of them is a leap finisher. There are two skills already which are whirls, does it not make sense to have those as whirl finishers? Having a leap in water is awkward because you want to be able to leap in fire/ice/aetherial fields, not water fields if you want to upkeep the bonuses from auras.

I'm also pretty dissapointed we're once again getting weak CC as elementalist. Hammer was a long way from my first choice of a weapon for ele, but I did at least console myself with the expectation that we'd get great CC. It's perfectly fine for basically every other class to do massive CC but ele can't? Weaver has decent CC but it's nothing to write home about and it's gated behind multiple attunement swaps for all non FA builds. One of the CC skills being a massive self knockback is kinda a joke as well; maybe make the knockback a flip over skill?

The orb itself feels like a confused design. Because so much of the power of Catalyst comes from being able to combo and you don't have another source of fields, not having the orb 100% of the time feels awful in solo play. Conversely in group content the orb is mostly just a ticking damage field as the fields it provides aren't more valuable than the random fields you'd get from other players.

Also because Hammer has no fire fields and Persisting Flames only applies to weapon skills it makes that trait essentially dead. Maybe make the Fire field from the orb count for the trait? It wouldn't be internally consistent with Tempest's overloads which also don't count, but it also would save the only fire grandmaster trait worth taking from being irrelevant.

The first change I'd make is to allow players to upkeep the orb 100% of the time. The fact that it has a CD and an energy cost makes it feel like that was the intent but it was changed last minute for whatever reason. Maybe make the trait which gives energy on swap baseline and buff the numbers so you can comfortably but not trivially maintain the orb through attunement swapping. I'd also make you start with 50% energy on the orb, so for boon focused builds you can start the fight with boons available.

You should also be able to reposition the orb. Personally I'd like the orb to just be moveable by recasting it (instead of cancelling it). I know a lot of people want it to move with you like Scrapper, but the class is waaay too close to Scrapper as it stands

In certain team comps random fields will outperform the orb fields, as frost fields from Soulbeasts or aetherial fields from Mirages will allow you to get far more auras than the fire/poison/water/lightning fields the orb provides. Personally I'd make the aura gain traits more lenient or give greater buffs for combos in your own fields.

The utility skills aren't great. They just feel exactly like stances which we already had with Weaver; the Elite is just baby's first Weave Self crossed with the Bladesworn Elite skill. It looks like for power DPS conjures are the way to go, which dissapoints me no end as I was hoping for Catalyst to bring a pDPS spec which doesn't have to screw around with conjures. Either rework conjures or buff the utility skills and hammer auto attacks so conures are no longer neccessary. I wouldn't mind seeing the elite skill reworked completely; maybe make it overload the sphere, doing damage and applying boons appropriate to the attunement? Not exactly original I know, but better than the current implementation IMO.

I know there's a lot of negativity around Catalyst which isn't entirely unearned but I do still think it has a lot of potential; people were excited by the reveal for a reason. It will need some work to get there though.

Thanks to anyone who read this far.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Doomfish.8206
removed extra line breaks

[Jopettaja.7451]

I think catalyst lacks focus,

First I would go all in one of the ideas and forget the rest making the elite spec revolve all around combo fields and finishers so that the spec enhances them greatly in different ways depending how you chose to put your traits, that would also fit the name Catalyst, "process of increasing the chemical reaction by adding a substance known as catalyst", so elementalist would be increasing the reactions on combo fields.

 

TRAITS:

In the traits I would make top line defencive and make catalyst get enhanced defencive auras from combos, that way you could play more as the bruiser spec

 

The mid line i would make focused in damage and add additional damaging effects on any combos you make, like blast finisher on fire field would also make enemies burn near you in addition to the normal might it gives, blast finisher on lighting field would make enemies take strike damage in addition to the normal swiftness etc, just give additional damaging effects into combo fields so that it actually increases you dps significally if you hit them

 

And the bottom line I would make give boons and support from combo fields and finishers

 

HAMMER:

I would change hammer 3 skill in all attunements to make combo field and i would give all of the attunements also combo finisher. The current skill 3s are cool, but doesn't seem so fitting, feels more something for weaver

 

F5:

I would make the f5 skill bigger and easier to move, or allow you to make multiple combo fields at the same time, or have it move with you similar way to scrapper gyros or berserker torch fire field, it should be pretty reliable way to have combo fields

 

SKILLS:

I would make all of the utility skills different combo finishers and the elite skill to allow you to do combo finishers on multiple combo fields simultaneously for period of time to make it way more exciting (with all the new traits) and fitting into the whole theme

 

This way Catalyst would have way more focus and that would be in combo fields and finishers, defencive, offencive or supportive way, however you chose to spec. Just have the elementalist have many combo fields and enhance the combo finishers greatly! player can just chose which way. I know there are many changes here, but the overall idea is same just more focused and I truly do think it would make the elite specialization way better and more interesting and have more clear new theme around it

 

[AshenOwl.2485]

Unfortunately, Catalyst bored me terribly. The Elite mechanic, Jade Sphere, just doesn't add much to the specs identity. In fact, the whole thing seems to be designed around the hammer over the sphere.

 

Hammer 3 is really cool on paper, but mainly frustrating in execution. The orbs circle too far from you that they miss enemies in close melee, their hit box makes them frustrating to hit smaller enemies in the required range, and it's a chore to get all 4 elements to launch instead of a feel-good moment.

[suialthor.7164]

Most of the new elites, including catalyst, seem to be a running theme of overly complicated instead of focusing on mechanics that are enjoyable to play.   I'd be more excited about a rework of the staff than catalyst as a whole.

• Different hammer ranges doesn't feel good
• Hammer combo fields need work
• The Catalyst field (or whatever its called) is extremely punishing against mobile opponents for the amount of effort required to create it

In the live streams, having the company joke about downstate being part of the ele rotation isn't funny.  If I were a developer I'd be offended that I designed something so poorly that it needs to rely heavily on downstate.

Edited September 26, 2021 by suialthor.7164

[Velho.8594]

Catalyst feedback from elementalist main, I have 10k~ hours and 80% of that is on elementalist.

Hammer

Tuning probably isn't the goal of this beta but I will start with that. At the moment the skill3 orbs deal 3 to 4 times more damage on huge hitbox compared to small. If you nerf them to hit the same amount on big as on small then the damage will be abysmal. Tune the orbs so that total damage is somewhere in the middle. Move more damage in the the other weapon skills? Also in personal opinion, make the orbs rotate closer to the player.

The rotation feels very intensive because of the orbs, if you lose even one you end up with a huge damage loss, especially with air or fire orb. It feels like you're constantly trying to finish weave self on weaver. With alacrity and quickness on the golem the rotation felt pretty smooth and enjoyable, in open world not so much, the orbs are hard to keep up and you feel like kitten if you lose even one. My idea would be to make the orbs more about the buffs than the damage. Makee the damage portion minimal, keep the buffs they give, maybe give us a trait that gives us a stack of elemental empowerement or empowering auras per orb? Again, make them rotate closer to the character, I feel very deatched from them when they are that far, also they don't hit small targets close to the character atm.

More finishers? Air and Earth 2 feel like prime whirl finishers.

The hammer feels very glassy, I feel like I don't have any defensives because if I steer from the rotation I will lose my orbs.

I like auto chains, gief more.

Jade Sphere

Gief more quality of life. It working like a moving aoe like gyros feels appropiate.

A trait that leaves the orb in the same attunement as you cast it in but drains more of the energy?

Aesthetic

Make augment effects small Jade Sphere's instead of random colored orbs?

It would be nice to see something new on Earth auto for hammer instead of the age old ring of earth effect that's already used in many places.

[Zergs.9715]

I've spent least of my time testing Catalyst but from what I've seen I'm not overly excited for it.

 

If feels like 2 half finished elite specs jammed into one. It's incoherent and wants to do so many things... You could easily split it into two elite specs with better focus on one mechanic done right.

 

Example:

Hammer #3 doesn't feel like a weapon skill more like elite spec mechanic and I think it'd be cruel to tie such a fun skill to just one weapon. Make an one elite spec that loses auras and gains hammer 3 instead every time you do a combo. F5 would be a sort of elemental shatter. If done right IMO this is good enough for an elite spec.

 

I'd play that because it's concise and it knows what it wants to be. A persistent AOE damager centred on player.

 

I really don't like that Catalyst is stepping in Tempest's toes with auras... Like I said if anything Catalyst should have been a spec that loses auras completely and gains orbiting... orbs...

[crazyhusky.2985]

Catalyst fit weird and unfinshed. I know its a beta but there needs to be things added or changed to make it a little better.

Firstly Elementalist in it's base form in general NEEDS more AoE combo fields so it they can be used with Catalyst.

Glyph of Storms is a prime example one utility skill with should be a combo field and it's not for some reason, which is strange since you are making a AOE field of an element. This would help out Catalyt in getting more fields down.

For Hammer, I think Air and Fire elements need to have their ranged increased to 900, in the demo you said it wa "Mid-range" but 900 range has always been the mid-range attack and 1,200 has always been long range. So whats with the 600 range and 800 attacks. It makes really awkward to use in general, or to use with groups since no one else in your group be attacking from that range. It's too short for actual mid-range.

Just keep it simple for Hammer, 900 range for Air and Fire element attunements, 130 for Earth and Water element attunements, Make all the Hammer skill 3's 1200 or 900 range, or even 1000 if you want to keep it a little above, mid-range.

The catalyst ultilty skills are weird, you need the sphere to basically use them which hurts their use in general. I think they should keep their current effects but have it so you no longer need the sphere to use them, but if the sphere is present should something extra like give a boon or an aura to help you out.

It seems like you are trying to make catalyst do a lot but have not given elementalist the proper tools do to so effectively.

[nopoet.2960]

I played around a little in pve.  I don't hate it.  I kinda think they should get rid of the jade sphere button.  Changing elements alone should create the relevant field.  Blasting an elemental field should remove it but also create the spinning orb thing currently on hammer 3.  Then there should be a button to release all of the spinning things.  You could then trait what happens when you release the orbs.