Catalyst Feedback Thread

[Kain Francois.4328]

Controversial suggestion: Design Catalyst around camping an element, NOT swapping out of it!

In other words, rework Hammer 3. Allow me to justify this.

What is the purpose of Catalyst? "To be a steady presence on the battle field." 
What is the purpose of Hammer? To be flexible in its role and swap between range and melee.

If I'm playing bulky and on the frontlines, I want to camp Water and Earth. However, in order to use adequate damage, I'm forced to swap between EVERY Element due to the workings of Hammer 3. As a result, it not only feels like Core Ele, but I'm forced to use a bar I really don't want to use for no other reason than to maximize my Hammer 3 usage.

Keep in mind the common complaint consistent in all Catalyst threads is the desire to rework Hammer 3.

Brainstorming Reworks to Hammer 3

Idea #1: Make Hammer 3 spawn more projectiles the longer it is out, rather than swapping weapons. This should promote the Catalyst to actually remain in frontlines and ready to shoot it.

Idea #2: Tie the Energy Mechanic to Hammer 3, with more projectiles spawning the higher your energy level. This again promotes an aggressive style where you want to be on the frontlines, hitting foes.

Suggestion in all cases: Get rid of the passive buffs from Hammer 3!!! Things like attribute bonuses depending on Element should be a component of the profession mechanic or traits, NOT a weapon skill!  The small seconds window to actually use these passive buffs is so short and finnicky that it actually makes the Catalyst uncomfortable to play, since the only way to maximize its potential is by abusing that very short window of time you have a power buff. Not only that, but that niche is already fulfilled by Weave Self on Weaver, who has a shorter swap window and is more comfortable to use.

tl;dr: Give me my "Steady Presence on the Battlefield", and consider incentivizing our individual elements rather than swapping them continuously. Reworking Hammer 3's conditions is key to this.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Kain Francois.4328

[Milosz.5938]

https://i.redd.it/4fvj2kvau3o71.jpg     can someone please tell me where is the truth here? 

https://pastenow.ru/73c0f6daccb2de8badb0fda2eeeab159  proposition of new skills for Catalyst

Edited November 6, 2021 by Milosz.5938

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, Milosz.5938 said:

https://i.redd.it/4fvj2kvau3o71.jpg     can someone please tell me where is the truth here? 

https://pastenow.ru/73c0f6daccb2de8badb0fda2eeeab159  proposition of new skills for Catalyst

Downed skills are mostly ranged, so it kinda is true to that claim.

[frareanselm.1925]

The catalyst mechanics are good the problem is the weapon. The hammer is the worst weapon in the game for most the classes, at least is decent in scrapper.

To fix the hammer clunkiness this would need a teleport skill like n3 ranger greatwsord, and another skill that include celerity.

Edited November 6, 2021 by frareanselm.1925

[Zallik.5613]

This was 100% the most disappointing of all of the elite specs. Honestly, please go back to the drawing board and give us a mobile bow-mage or something that's ranged and mobile. 

[Jski.6180]

My feed back after seeing every thing else is anet hates ele. My request is to stop string along the gw2 community as if they dont.

Anet could not even be bothered to add in an earth field for the earth F5 they gave it a poison field that dose not even poison its real next level hate for any thing ele only.

[SkinnyT.5382]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:08 PM, Artyport.2084 said:

My fix for catalyst 

 

move the spirits to the utilities have them release and apply the boons in the area. Like ranger spirits 
 

turn the elemental ball into the profession mechanic  letting them use energy 

 

apply augments to the hammer where they are missing skills. 
 

make the elite go to the trash 

I don't main ele, but this is exactly what I though of as well. I also suggested having the hammer skills all the same distance; either close range or long ranger. Not half and half.

[nopoet.2960]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:40 AM, Kain Francois.4328 said:

...

 

Brainstorming Reworks to Hammer 3

Idea #1: Make Hammer 3 spawn more projectiles the longer it is out, rather than swapping weapons. This should promote the Catalyst to actually remain in frontlines and ready to shoot it.

Idea #2: Tie the Energy Mechanic to Hammer 3, with more projectiles spawning the higher your energy level. This again promotes an aggressive style where you want to be on the frontlines, hitting foes.

Suggestion in all cases: Get rid of the passive buffs from Hammer 3!!! ..

Wouldn't it be easier if they just got rid of Grand Finale?  Just let people stack 4 passive bonuses however they want with whatever element they want.  Anet would have to figure out how to make the same element stack in intensity.  The fifth application would function like Grand Finale by attacking your target.

 

The jade sphere thing...  I still think changing elements should create a combo field.  The jade sphere could be used to store and move combo fields.  So like switch to fire, create a fire field, use sphere to end fire field.  Switch to water, create a water field, throw the jade sphere where you need a fire field; rinse, repeat.

[draxynnic.3719]

Haven't read the rest of the thread, so I fully expect that this will be buried, will be repeating something someone else has said, or both, but:

 

Having tried to figure out for a while why Catalyst just feels so off, I think it comes down to this:

 

Catalyst tries to incorporate a lot of ideas which could form the basis of a decent specialisation if properly supported, but instead of synergising with each other to make a functional whole, they're all pulling in different directions.

 

Consider the jade sphere, for instance. Let's assume for the sake of argument that it was rebalanced so that it actually works - say, it keeps the energy mechanic, but you don't lose energy when cancelling it and it has no recharge, instead you can always use it as long as you have a certain minimum energy (five seconds' worth, say). This would make it much more usable (including not being a complete sadface when the fight moves away from the jade orb), and provides for an interesting principle of putting it down to provide a valuable boon (well, apart from fire, maybe that should be something else rather than Might... heck, could even be alacrity, it's a boon that's already been linked to phoenixes with Willbender's Phoenix Protocol, and tuning Catalyst so that one Catalyst could provide quickness or alacrity but couldn't max out both alone could result in interesting interactions) and switching attunements in a deliberate fashion in order to apply whichever of those boons is the most important at the time. But this is combined with a set of weapon skills (the various skill 3s on hammer) that's based around switching through all the elements in a short time period. And utilities that ask you to dip into a specific element just to activate the utility. These mechanics are competing with what you intuitively want to do with the orb, which is to pick a boon you want and sit in that attunement until you want a different boon or your energy runs out.

 

Or that "convert combos into auras" set of traits. That could be a fun alternative to tempest for being an auramancer... if it was combined with a spec that was designed around setting up and executing finishers, with a weapon that has lots of fields and finishers in every attunement and maybe even utilities that let you put down fields outside of those associated with the element you're attuned to. But it has neither. Hammer has a few (mostly high-recharge) finishers and no fields, and the utilities aren't contributing to pulling off combos.

 

All this means Catalyst is probably the one EoD elite spec where I think a complete overhaul is needed... and where it's actually practical to do so.

 

What it really needs is for a decision to be made about what Catalyst is supposed to do. Everything else then needs to support that. Anything that doesn't support that needs to be put in a folder for a future specialisation that it does work for.

 

As an example: Given the graphics work that has gone into it, I'd suggest focusing on the orb. There needs to be some practical means of moving or dismissing and resummoning the orb when the fight moves. Mixed melee and ranged weapon? That's actually a good idea, it means you can either drop the orb on a melee group and fight alongside it, or drop the orb on a ranged group and fight alongside them, and can switch between either function in a single encounter. Nifty, although it could do with a bit more range on the ranged attunements. But strip out everything that demands rapid attunement swapping: attunement swapping should be something that the Catalyst does deliberately to change which role they play in a fight, not something that they're expected to blitz through because their skills are designed that way. The four orbs and Grand Finale are an interesting system that would probably be great (with a few tweaks) for a different elite specialisation, but I don't think it works here. We're now essentially looking at a boon support ele, so the auramancer setup is probably justified as a side gig... but it needs more combos to make use of those traits. More convenient access to the Jade Orb would probably help there, but we've also got a new set of skill 3s that could be used to generate additional combo fields. Or maybe throw in some mobility skills that count as leap finishers, both to increase mobility and to allow for more finishers in existing fields. Looking at some of the existing hammer skills for finisher potential might also be worthwhile.

 

As for the utilities... on the basis of encouraging a playstyle of committing to an attunement rather than rapid switching, perhaps make it so they have the augmented effect as long as you're in the right attunement, but they lose it if you switch attunement? That would synergise better with the jade orb encouraging you to commit to whichever element provides the boon your group needs rather than flipping through attunements to get multiple powered-up augments at once.

 

So, the playstyle then becomes one of strategically placing (and, importantly, moving when needed) the orb to provide you and your group with whatever boon is most important at the time. Earth and Water provide defensive boons against different threats, Fire and Air provide offensive boons. This means that you're likely to stay in one attunement for long periods in order to maintain that boon - so your weapon skills are designed to support that*, and augments reward you for remaining in the element that the skill is linked to. Apart from replacing the hammer skills on 3 with something less encouraging of rapid attunement switching, it's still mostly using existing assets, but actually forms into a cohesive playstyle.

 

*It would probably still be possible to increase personal DPS by cycling through elements to use high-recharge skills in the manner of weavers and traditional elementalists, but that would come at the expense of less optimised boon production. I'd also note that a weapon that is designed to cycle through all attunements as part of a standard rotation probably should have all attunements fighting at roughly the same range, rather than combining ranged and melee - giving elementalist a weapon that has ranged and melee on different attunements is great, but it should be encouraged to choose attunements strategically rather than play piano. Particularly if it's only got two mobility skills - sword and dagger work as well as they do in part because they bring a lot of mobility.

[Tungsten Monarch.6058]

I'm a bit concerned as an Ele player, the issues brought up by many players here won't be addressed by Anet. According to the demonstration today, the Ele still have melee range for a low health, low armor class. Please reconsider the range for the Hammer abilities, and increase them to 1200, so we can live longer.

[Savach.7219]

8 hours ago, Tungsten Monarch.6058 said:

I'm a bit concerned as an Ele player, the issues brought up by many players here won't be addressed by Anet. According to the demonstration today, the Ele still have melee range for a low health, low armor class. Please reconsider the range for the Hammer abilities, and increase them to 1200, so we can live longer.

at such a distance, we will not stand in a group and will lose buffs, remaining all the same useless

[Anthony.8056]

They seem to be really pushing catalyst with all the streams since they are always playing it. 

[Flori.2194]

51 minutes ago, Anthony.8056 said:

They seem to be really pushing catalyst with all the streams since they are always playing it. 

They know they kittened this e-spec up. So they try to at least make it look good, I mean it has nice animations etc. pp... But that's just style over substance which is sad...

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Anthony.8056 said:

They seem to be really pushing catalyst with all the streams since they are always playing it. 

I wouldn't say 'pushing' but more like 'testing' to fix it.  .... 

 

[Tungsten Monarch.6058]

6 hours ago, Savach.7219 said:

at such a distance, we will not stand in a group and will lose buffs, remaining all the same useless

at such a distance I will not live long enough to finish the fight in solo play or group play. Also if you need to move close, you have that option, as it is now you do not. 1200 range gives fighting options for a low health, low armor, class.

[Flori.2194]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I wouldn't say 'pushing' but more like 'testing' to fix it.  .... 

 

they shouldn't test in a stream, they should test in a test, like when they develop stuff... they probably just try to shove the catalyst down our throats... or they try to rub salt in the wounds of ele players which they obviously like to do, who knows...

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Flori.2194 said:

they shouldn't test in a stream, they should test in a test, like when they develop stuff... they probably just try to shove the catalyst down our throats... or they try to rub salt in the wounds of ele players which they obviously like to do, who knows...

Well, whatever you want to believe. Can't be picky about how Anet does things if you ACTAULLY want them to fix things. 

[Jski.6180]

32 minutes ago, Flori.2194 said:

they shouldn't test in a stream, they should test in a test, like when they develop stuff... they probably just try to shove the catalyst down our throats... or they try to rub salt in the wounds of ele players which they obviously like to do, who knows...

And it seems cata has a 1 hp build as well... I would not take any thing during dev steam as truth at this point they over cheat in the previews and gave massively misleading impression on cata.

Ele players should have NO faith in anet at this point.

[AzuritaBlues.3206]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I wouldn't say 'pushing' but more like 'testing' to fix it.  .... 

 

They didn't get the Elemental Empowerment buff's stacks during the stream. I wonder if they got rid of it

[Yer.8096]

19 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I wouldn't say 'pushing' but more like 'testing' to fix it.  .... 

 

 

Still F5... Why do not put at the same element, as Tempest Overloads? Why using F5 during all "Fs" we need to keep changing?

[Squirrell.4091]

Seems like they again activate godmode (HP can't go below 1 on the video). to show that catalyst is a melee spec

 

They don't want to demonstrate that this is a "meme down" spec

[Aedil.1296]

On 11/13/2021 at 6:48 PM, Anthony.8056 said:

They seem to be really pushing catalyst with all the streams since they are always playing it. 

They need to give us godmode as well if we gotta play that kitten though 🤣

[wolfyrik.2017]

Kain Francois.4328

I tend to agree. Ele has plenty of builds that rely on rapid switching and Weaver already exemplifies that. It's bizarre that catalyst is built around doing the exact same thing. It should be a completely new style and a tank which gets stronger the longer it sits in an element, would be a total gameplay change. Different elements for daifferent flavors and scenarios.

Edited November 17, 2021 by wolfyrik.2017

[Noodle Ant.1605]

i dont know whether this has been mentioned before, catalyst seems to be designed around constantly (and perhaps mindlessly) swapping attunements to forcefully smash everything ele has together but i also get this vague hint of "fire outside fire", "water outside water", etc. from hammer 3 and augments (although the sphere requirements are largely unnecessary). lingering elements done differently, maybe

 

something that runs completely contradictory to this idea is the fact how the jade sphere changes according to the catalysts attunement. if the sphere kept its deployed attunement instead, i feel this would provide better value as it allows the catalyst to choose when and what to combo with, so long as it can provide the finishers (which requires switching attunements anyway)

 

some effects, while resembling lingering elements in practice, are incompatible outside their governing attunement. for example, increased damage - provided by fire, is only majorly useful in fire. on the other hand, some effects reflect their attunement rather poorly - e.g. icy coil and its rather negligible -5% incoming condi dmg. for these two examples, the ability to deal additional strikes (like shattering ice) or burning "outside of fire" would be sufficient for a fire-related effect, and icy coil would have a bit more of a direction if it healed per strike (remembering that it can be maintained outside of water)

 

this assumes that catalyst hasnt already been taken in a different direction

[Infusion.7149]

40 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

i dont know whether this has been mentioned before, catalyst seems to be designed around constantly (and perhaps mindlessly) swapping attunements to forcefully smash everything ele has together but i also get this vague hint of "fire outside fire", "water outside water", etc. from hammer 3 and augments (although the sphere requirements are largely unnecessary). lingering elements done differently, maybe

 

something that runs completely contradictory to this idea is the fact how the jade sphere changes according to the catalysts attunement. if the sphere kept its deployed attunement instead, i feel this would provide better value as it allows the catalyst to choose when and what to combo with, so long as it can provide the finishers (which requires switching attunements anyway)

 

some effects, while resembling lingering elements in practice, are incompatible outside their governing attunement. for example, increased damage - provided by fire, is only majorly useful in fire. on the other hand, some effects reflect their attunement rather poorly - e.g. icy coil and its rather negligible -5% incoming condi dmg. for these two examples, the ability to deal additional strikes (like shattering ice) or burning "outside of fire" would be sufficient for a fire-related effect, and icy coil would have a bit more of a direction if it healed per strike (remembering that it can be maintained outside of water)

 

this assumes that catalyst hasnt already been taken in a different direction

The best way to achieve what you're saying is the boon support traits (Spectacular Sphere or Sphere Specialist) make quickness a near 100% uptime jade sphere boon probably. Power catalyst reportedly does less damage than condi catalyst due to the hammer 3 circling orb applying burn/bleed meaning any diviner catalyst would be even worse (last I saw it was just over 26K on large hitbox or something). As it is now, it's worse than arcane once quickness is out of the picture. The rest of the boons aren't noteworthy,  as in why would you run catalyst with the high variance over tempest : it would need to have role compression of heal + 5 man quickness in order to even compete with tempest (which heals 10) let alone other specs.

From what I've seen air+water is the way to go for power , air + arcane may also work if boon support is the aim.

Since quickness is applied on air attunement and the air attunement part of hammer is ranged , quickness catalyst really isn't a great idea in its current iterations.

The way I see it is weaver is the attunement swapping spec, tempest is the spec you linger for overload, so catalyst shouldn't be another constant attunement swapping spec.

I don't feel having catalyst putting out more DPS than weaver is healthy for the game. Instead weaver should do more damage since catalyst is designed to remain in the fight so sustained damage and higher cleave is the aim. The defensive side from the orb could be amped up and lengthened instead of doing upwards of 11K+ DPS depending on hammer 3 hitting.
 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149