Stop ruining new Elite Specs with trade-offs, cast times and insane aftercasts

[GuriGashi.5617]

I can imagine from which influencial GW2 streamer you got the inspiration to heavily handicap the new elite specs through trade-offs, but you are creating completely useless specs for PvP in the process. We have seen 6 elite specs so far, of which all except Harbinger and Vindicator feel crippled before they are even released.

I know these are just betas, but fixing numbers won‘t fix specs when their designs are completely flawed. 
I am especially disappointed in how Willbender and Bladesworn turned out and hope there will be a major rework for most of the specs before the release, if EoD is truly meant to be the best expansion of all time.

And I know, people generally hate on the PoF meta, but there is no denying that power creep right at the release of an expansion is alot more fun for PvP than whatever this is supposed to be right now.

Edited September 22, 2021 by snoow.1694

[mortrialus.3062]

It's better to make exciting new elite specs / classes / characters in games that are ambition and you know have the tools to succeed, tone them down as needed, than make weak unviable new characters and classes that don't have the tools to succeed and try to puzzle out exactly what they're missing or letting them languish unplayed for years. 

The new specs reek of CMC's philosphy.

Edited September 21, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Crab Fear.1624]

Please don't listen to this guy.

You drove away many players with insanely OP and broken specs.

Take an example from these new releases and tone down POF and HOT even more(some).

At the very least no buffs.

 

Anything that induces a shrill giggle and look over the shoulder deserves a nerf.

[mortrialus.3062]

4 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Please don't listen to this guy.

You drove away many players with insanely OP and broken specs.

Take an example from these new releases and tone down POF and HOT even more(some).

At the very least no buffs.

 

Anything that induces a shrill giggle and look over the shoulder deserves a nerf.

Post megabalance population is lower than POF, with the top 250 dipping into Gold 3. 

[Exile.8160]

33 minutes ago, snoow.1694 said:

I can imagine from which influencial GW2 streamer you got the inspiration to heavily handicap the new elite specs through trade-offs, but you are creating completely useless specs for PvP in the process. We have seen 6 elite specs so far, of which all except Harbinger and Vindicator feel crippled before they are even released.

I know these are just betas, but fixing numbers won‘t fix specs when their designs are completely flawed. 
I am especially disappointed about how Willbender and Bladesworn turned out and hope there will be a major rework for most of the specs before the release, if EoD is truly meant to be the best expansion of all time.

And I know, people generally hate on the PoF meta, but there is no denying that power creep right at the release of an expansion is alot more fun for PvP than whatever this is supposed to be right now.

 

For real tho, as a pvp player I have zero insentive to buy the expac right now.

 

The new specs feel weak and unispiring so far.

[Stalima.5490]

I dunno the bladesworn might be a bit busted if you duo with someone who can stealth you while you charge up...

[mortrialus.3062]

On 9/21/2021 at 3:04 PM, Stalima.5490 said:

I dunno the bladesworn might be a bit busted if you duo with someone who can stealth you while you charge up...

A full 5 second Dragon Trigger doesn't even do half much damage as a Dragon Hunter True Shot. 

https://i.imgur.com/XFOqehI.png (6k Dragon Blade Force on medium target golem)

https://i.imgur.com/CXo01Db.png  (6k and 10k True Shot on medium target golem)

Edited September 22, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Sereath.1428]

Cast times are important however aftercasts are not and just feel bad.

[Crab Fear.1624]

24 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Post megabalance population is lower than POF, with the top 250 dipping into Gold 3. 

It was very low before mega balance, and top 250 has been in gold three many seasons.

Also the top top players were in gold one games since 2018.

You will see a small revival in population regardless once the expac comes out, but if they release broken specs again, especailly other games on the horizon....

I acknowledge that people will play GW2, but I can't agree with GW2 mains who think this is the best game or the game that a majority of WoW refugees would choose, when many have just returned to WoW.

GW2 has some life, but I think some of the newer western releases may not take a top spot, but they will put a sufficient draw away from GW2, that they will never recover.

 

 

GW2 is the ELITE CASUAL GAME

Edited September 21, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624

[mortrialus.3062]

17 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

It was very low before mega balance, and top 250 has been in gold three many seasons.

Also the top top players were in gold one games since 2018.

And post megabalance is lower than that.  Once the season was started proper and not like the first few days the top 250 before megabalance was never below plat 1.  It was usually around 1570ish as the cut off point to top 250.  

17 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

You will see a small revival in population regardless once the expac comes out, but if they release broken specs again, especailly other games on the horizon....

Which won't be as bad as if they release a new generation of elite specs and they're all just completely unusable compared to core or the other two elite specs and everyone is just playing the old specs for another five years. 

I'm not saying "Oh the new specs need to one shot everything and have 75% evade frame uptime and able to rotate 40,000 units of distance per minute!".  But like, they need to be actually functional, have the tools to succeed in PvP, and not hilariously unviable like Virtuoso and Willbender, and what's looking like Catalyst and Bladesworn. 

It's also important that they do exciting new revolutionary mechanics that we've never seen before and aside from Bladesworn's charge attack, which is very underpowered in PvP capping out at around 6k damage max, they are extremely safe and not bringing anything truly new mechanically to the game like Alacrity or Barrier or shaking up how fundamentally different it is to play with your profession mechanics like Scourge or Soulbeast. 

What we're seeing is too far in the other extreme, with the elite specs looking like they're designed to be genuinely unplayable in SPvP.

This feels like if Street Fighter 5 released a DLC and a new season with 9 Dan clones. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Crab Fear.1624]

8 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Once the season was started proper and not like the first few days the top 250 before megabalance was never below plat 1.  It was usually around 1570ish as the cut off point to top 250.  

Which won't be as bad as if they release a new generation of elite specs and they're all just completely unusable compared to core or the other two elite specs and everyone is just playing the old specs for another five years. 

I'm not saying "Oh the new specs need to one shot everything and have 75% evade frame uptime and able to rotate 40,000 units of distance per minute!".  But like, they need to be actually functional, have the tools to succeed in PvP, and not hilariously unviable like Virtuoso and Willbender, and what's looking like Catalyst and Bladesworn. 

It's also important that they do exciting new revolutionary mechanics that we've never seen before. 

What we're seeing is too far in the other extreme, with the elite specs looking like they're designed to be genuinely unplayable in SPvP.

This feels like if Street Fighter 5 released a DLC and a new season with 9 Dan clones. 

If you think these guys are weak, wait until you see them release the healer scepter thief in the next beta lmao

[mortrialus.3062]

1 minute ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

If you think these guys are weak, wait until you see them release the healer scepter thief in the next beta lmao

And then you'll know how Virtuoso feels. 

[Lucentfir.7430]

I'm going to say this is probably the first time I've actually been De-hyped for a expansion and disappointed with associated betas on a WvW side of things (And I've attended every single one except before launch gw2), only positives now is new PVE stuff, and alliances. Honestly just split the balance responsibilities and philosophies to someone else for WvW, and leave Spvp with CMC.   It's so frustratingly tiring it just sucks out all the fun and things to look forward to out of the game. 

[Emapudapus.1307]

I agree with Crab Fear, we dont need more broken stuff and rather nerf existing ones more. 

 

On the other hand the design for me feels very boring with these elite spec. Its mostly dmg and mobility all over place, while dmg is not broken it feels unimpressive fast, same as they did with reaper "redesigns", no depth.

[BlackTruth.6813]

And making a game where there's nothing but instant casts and relying on RNG dodge to actually dodge vs the fact that you can't tell if it's cry of frustration or mind wrack is a fail game.

 

What other step would you have done to make the 3rd expansions impactful yet balanced? It's literally the best answer, which is telegraphed skills, maybe it should be easier to ani-cancel out of them but like, nothing is exciting about instant casting while evade spamming/block spamming/petting zoo.

 

The BALANCING AROUND TELEGRAPHED ABILITIES IS THE ANSWER, and maybe ANET needs to do a better job instead of adding powercreep equal to instant cast + evade spam/block spam/petting zoo garbage. I see that there is a silent majority who thinks instant cast while evading/petting zoo/block spamming is cool, these people would be bad game designers tbh.

[WUROCKET.5182]

Cast times good

After casts bad

 

After casts should be used to punish missing some big impactful skill, but if you hit it you dont get an aftercast

[Disney.7826]

Like wtf is this rev dodge

[Widmo.3186]

Like wtf is this ele spec

[Disney.7826]

3 minutes ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Like wtf is this ele spec

Wdym f5 is god tier

 

EOD is like

core ele better than crapper

core rev beteer than vindi

core war better than trashblade

core guard better than dogbender

core mes better than virtuoso

harbinger? Nahh, have u seen mm?

 

should i buy eod? Why i already saw the specs. should i play beta classes? Why, everything is better. Should i fish in game? Yes i like it so much i became fisherman irl.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Filip.7463

[Widmo.3186]

1 minute ago, Filip.7463 said:

Wdym f5 is god tier

Wdym, have you seen rev dodge damage? Terrific!

[Stalima.5490]

1 hour ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

A full 5 second Dragon Trigger doesn't even do as much damage as a Dragon Hunter True Shot. 

 

Yeah, I got to try it just before, it does seem a little bit underwhelming considering the vulnerability and investment needed.

 

That being said, it seems almost entirely reliant on stability so is a little strange they didn't give the bladesworn a trait that grants stability, probably instead of that % heal trait that didn't look too useful, it would be an extreme QoL upgrade if you got stab when starting to charge even if it didn't last until 10 stack.

[Aktium.9506]

3 hours ago, snoow.1694 said:

And I know, people generally hate on the PoF meta, but there is no denying that power creep right at the release of an expansion is alot more fun for PvP than whatever this is supposed to be right now.

Excellent. Let's bring HoT and PoF specs down until they are slightly below the level of the EoD specs then.

[mortrialus.3062]

4 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

Excellent. Let's bring HoT and PoF specs down until they are slightly below the level of the EoD specs then.

Might as well make it simple and just make the game mode core only. 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

 leave Spvp with CMC

no wait all of the pvp bs we've see on beta specs (mesmer dagger hitting for 600 on full zerk against light armored targets just to name one) are cmc's doing, please for the love of god I'd pay bucks to get anyone but cmc doing the balance

[Vancho.8750]

3 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

A full 5 second Dragon Trigger doesn't even do as much damage as a Dragon Hunter True Shot. 

https://i.imgur.com/XFOqehI.png (6k Dragon Blade Force on medium target golem)

https://i.imgur.com/CXo01Db.png  (6k and 10k True Shot on medium target golem)

I think there is some strange PVP scaling going on there, since I tried full glass all of the signet stacks 25 might and berserker power and I got 6.5k crit for 5 second cast. CMC said there will be damage reduction but srlsy a damage cap. Berserker can one shot people with that useless full damage build, like wtf was the grand idea of adding charging for 5 seconds if it does nothing over casting it for 1 and dealing 4k on a build with the defense traitline, like it should be able to pull at least 25k for sitting on one spot for 5 seconds. 
I know this is a beta but really how many bugs does this thing have. Also how will they get data of the beta if people drop playing it after 1 hour (high estimate) if it is so bad.