Stop ruining new Elite Specs with trade-offs, cast times and insane aftercasts

[crewthief.8649]

22 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

It's lack of creativity. 

 

The idea behind a trade-off is built upon the change of playstyle the espec offers. Berserker, Spellbreaker etc. There is no need for further trait trade-offs when you create a mechanic which is supposed to interact differently with the core aspects of a class. 

 

Why has this still not been realised? Why does willbender need the 3 trade-off traits when it doesn't even have virtue passive effects to share with allies? 

 

Why does Berserker need - 300 toughness when it's burst mode is time gated and thus cannot heal itself as quickly as Core warrior to have both it's sustain and higher dmg? 

 

They simply lack creativity. Scrapper, Berserker etc are elites that the team had no meaningful changes to make for their mechanics, which resulted in adding a fake trade-off in the form of Stat distribution to match different class weight. All in all that's a failure imo. 

 

Its been said before. This is a beta, I've been running tests like crazy with Bladesworn, have suggested solutions to the issues and pointed out said issues and why we need the change, and will hope my posts and other warrior main posts are seen in a sea of suggestions from people who returned to warrior just to have fun killing mobs in Desert Highlands and go 'wooo 50k lol' only to drop the spec 2 hours later and keep doing their normal stuff. 

Thus, the reason I believe Anet doesn’t actually understand what a tradeoff is. The Blade Sworn is a straight downgrade; heavily penalized with nothing in return. If these especs stay in this state, it will drive people away from the game, and rightfully so.

Edited September 23, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[Psycoprophet.8107]

14 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

The first impressions of these specs are kinda downers after actually playing them in a PVP/WvW environment. Honestly makes me wish they'd stop making E-specs all together now and just go with making new full fledge profession per expansion now. 

Or maybe work on fixing and improving the 27 specs currents in the game, I mean how many more years will some traitlines exist with traits rendered useless with 5 min cds tacked onto them, how many traits or weapon kits have sat un used for years etc?

This game needs a lot of work in the form of balancing, reworks/redesigns due to extremely poor and lazy support in the last 4 yrs.

[DaZeeHero.5210]

Scrapper is great though. Berserker... eh could be better.

 

But the people who are all giddy over the prospect that new elite specs will be horribly  weak compared to everything else both do not understand the game and its mechanics, and will be singing a different tune when the game is boasting 9 elite specs no one will ever use.

[Axl.8924]

On 9/21/2021 at 9:36 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

It's better to make exciting new elite specs / classes / characters in games that are ambition and you know have the tools to succeed, tone them down as needed, than make weak unviable new characters and classes that don't have the tools to succeed and try to puzzle out exactly what they're missing or letting them languish unplayed for years. 

The new specs reek of CMC's philosphy.

NO kidding man that aftercast on some of the virtuoso elite OOF, you prob couldn't hit a broad side of a mountain unless you were lucky and the person stood still.

Can i ask you something:

What exactly is bladesworn supposed to shine in?

Edited September 23, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Stand The Wall.6987]

doesn't make sense to put trade offs in traits, no one is going to choose those. just have them built in to the profession mechanic.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

50 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

doesn't make sense to put trade offs in traits, no one is going to choose those. just have them built in to the profession mechanic.

 

it should be the opposite. Tradeoffs should exist on skills and (maybe) traits and not on profession mechanics. You should be punished for playing poorly and making poor decisions in a fight...not be punished for playing a class or a playstyle you want to play. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Salt Mode.3780]

7 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Anybody against cast time / aftercasts / animations is against skillful play. If anything, poor tells is exactly what a lot of other specs lack, and this philosophy should be retroactively applied to the balance of previous specs. I will take better tells over "JuSt InCrEasE ThE cOoLdOwNz" any day. 

 

 

This perhaps in other MMO that isn't GW2 where you have 2 dodge abilities as well as utilities that give evade/block/invul. This isn't even accounting for the amount of skills that can interrupt casting. This isn't skillful play if you want bigger tells. Seems like people just can't handle faster gameplay. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Aktium.9506]

21 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

And we were way closer to balance before the megabalance than we are now

We definitely were not. There was a massive glaring issue with damage in the Pre-Feb 2020 meta. You either had to have blocks, iframes or evades or you would die almost instantly to focus. You can still get deleted from 100-0 in 2 seconds getting +1 by two revs or two thieves. Prior to Feb 2020 you moved the decimal one step to the left though. No way for even two teammates to ress through the sheer damage most classes could vomit out on their own while downed cleaving. The sheer fact that downed cleaving as a way to finish rather than neutralize a ress was better than manual stomping was by all means an atrocity. It was an unacceptable meta hinging on unacceptable gameplay elements. It was enabling nothing except more power creep down the line. It had to go.

And we've seen a wider variety of builds and classes in the post-Feb 2020 metagames in my opinion. There have been some absolute issues where stacking Guardians, Necros, Engineers and Revenants have spiraled way out of control. But these problems were not because the decision to go through with the Feb 2020 patch was a mistake or in any way a bad decision. But because ANet was too lax and did not do any follow-up patches until way too late afterwards. I think CMC did a fantastic job all in all. But I also think he most likely got put to work hard on the expansion with no one to fill his place as the balance guy, and that wasn't optimal.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Aktium.9506

[mortrialus.3062]

29 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

We definitely were not. There was a massive glaring issue with damage in the Pre-Feb 2020 meta. You either had to have blocks, iframes or evades or you would die almost instantly to focus. You can still get deleted from 100-0 in 2 seconds getting +1 by two revs or two thieves. Prior to Feb 2020 you moved the decimal one step to the left though. No way for even two teammates to ress through the sheer damage most classes could vomit out on their own while downed cleaving. The sheer fact that downed cleaving as a way to finish rather than neutralize a ress was better than manual stomping was by all means an atrocity. It was an unacceptable meta hinging on unacceptable gameplay elements. It was enabling nothing except more power creep down the line. It had to go.

And we've seen a wider variety of builds and classes in the post-Feb 2020 metagames in my opinion. There have been some absolute issues where stacking Guardians, Necros, Engineers and Revenants have spiraled way out of control. But these problems were not because the decision to go through with the Feb 2020 patch was a mistake or in any way a bad decision. But because ANet was too lax and did not do any follow-up patches until way too late afterwards. I think CMC did a fantastic job all in all. But I also think he most likely got put to work hard on the expansion with no one to fill his place as the balance guy, and that wasn't optimal.

Dude take a step back

Minionmancer is winning MATs.  The balance right now is so bad that Minionmancer is meta.

Edited September 23, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

6 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Dude take a step back

Minionmancer is winning MATs.  The balance right now is so bad that Minionmancer is meta.

Kinda amazing how players skill level immediately dropped af when feb2020 nerf patch also happened, must be coincidence.
FYI, Death Magic that is used by said build after reworks wasn't touched in feb2020.

[Tescao.3042]

3 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

it should be the opposite. Tradeoffs should exist on skills and (maybe) traits and not on profession mechanics. You should be punished for playing poorly and making poor decisions in a fight...not be punished for playing a class or a playstyle you want to play. 

 

I liked reading your messages about the connection between martial arts and the gw2 combat system and the fact and that you like to be interested in different martial arts. I wanted to share with you a small piece of knowledge about the martial art called Tescao, most likely you will not find much information about this art, but it will be interesting for you to learn more. This is a secret martial art of Tibet, most likely it was possessed by 10 golden guards of Genghis Khan, it was impossible to spread about it before. The main feature of this martial art is that it teaches you to be relaxed even in combat mode, under any circumstances, and to deliver deadly blows that most often they end with screw fractures of bones that are not subject to restoration(Yoga teaches you to relax only in normal situations). This martial art teaches you to be closer to the void and, in case of danger, to drop the enemy into the void, where they are not ready to fall. IMO if more people on earth learned about this martial art, the world could change.

Edited September 23, 2021 by DomHemingway.8436

[Aktium.9506]

14 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Dude take a step back

Minionmancer is winning MATs.  The balance right now is so bad that Minionmancer is meta.

It's almost as if they should make minions require interactivity and micromanaging to function like a proper summoner class in an MMO instead of them being essentially a passive damage aura that cleanses condis near you.

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:06 AM, mortrialus.3062 said:

Scourge on PoF release was more tolerable than necromancer as a whole has been post megabalance, because even though scourge was hilariously overpowered offensively, it lived in an ecosystem where lots of other things could kill it just as fast.  Scourge on it's own was a sitting duck and it needed to be baby sat by a firebrand support and that's when it would get truly unstoppable.

Not enough people remember this.

Even when scourge was brand new and caused mayhem thanks to dropping during the middle of an ongoing ranked season, you had the tools to deal with it.

Currently, core shroud and associated traits (and avoidance of the nerf bat) simply make it way too costly to commit to killing one. Seeing 3 necros on your team used to mean that you'll get outrotated heavily. Now, it just means you don't have to rotate at all. Absurd.

[mortrialus.3062]

7 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

It's almost as if they should make minions require interactivity and micromanaging to function like a proper summoner class in an MMO instead of them being essentially a passive damage aura that cleanses condis near you.

Or it means that the direction of balance has been so terrible since CMC took control, that everything is so nerfed, that it's allowed minions to be good again in PvP after both players and developers agreed in vanilla that they shouldn't be allowed to be good in PvP.

If I was in charge of balance, and minionmancer won the MAT and was meta in ranked, I would feel absolutely humiliated. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Salt Mode.3780]

9 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

It's almost as if they should make minions require interactivity and micromanaging to function like a proper summoner class in an MMO instead of them being essentially a passive damage aura that cleanses condis near you.

Pre Feb patch it was almost reportable for playing a MM build because people thought you were trolling. FYI your CMC god of balance actually don't want AI builds to be relevant guess you can't even see clear enough what your balance god is trying to achieve, but hey no one not even ones that aren't a fan of him can understand as well. 

Also there is no micromanagement for MM builds so this already discredit a lot of your claims. 

[Aktium.9506]

9 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

If I was in charge of balance, and minionmancer won the MAT and was meta in ranked, I would feel absolutely humiliated. 

It needs targeted nerfs. I don't know what more to say about this really. They should have been brought on sooner. This falls into the part about their inability to properly follow up the Feb 2020 patch.

 

9 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

FYI your CMC god of balance actually don't want AI builds to be relevant

Also there is no micromanagement for MM builds so this already discredit a lot of your claims. 

You my friend completely lack reading comprehension. Have another go at it and reread what I said and maybe it will make more sense to you.

[mortrialus.3062]

4 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

It needs targeted nerfs. I don't know what more to say about this really. They should have been brought on sooner. This falls into the part about their inability to properly follow up the Feb 2020 patch.

 

You my friend completely lack reading comprehension. Have another go at it and reread what I said and maybe it will make more sense to you.

The february 2020 patch was a mistake entirely.  There's no "fixing" it, there's no follow up you can do, and minionmancer being meta due to everyone else being nerfed below it is proof of that.  Minionmancer has been a meme build since they nerfed zoo in vanilla and now it's meta because they've dumpstered literally everything else so hard they're weaker than minionmancer.

Gutting everything's damage so that no one ever dies is not what PvP ever needed in this game.

Edited September 23, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Salt Mode.3780]

5 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

It needs targeted nerfs. I don't know what more to say about this really. They should have been brought on sooner. This falls into the part about their inability to properly follow up the Feb 2020 patch.

 

You my friend completely lack reading comprehension. Have another go at it and reread what I said and maybe it will make more sense to you.

Lol they did targeted nerfs twice on minion's HP clearly you don't understand how stupid the Feb patch was. Its funny how idiots complain about the Chrono bunker meta when Feb patch made bunkers even stronger. 

Yea Im sorry I didn't read your post clear enough its the same as I can't understand why people are glorifying CMC's work. LuLz

 

[Aktium.9506]

3 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

The february 2020 patch was a mistake entirely.  There's no "fixing" it, and minionmancer being meta due to everyone else being nerfed below it is proof of that.

How? In CMC's own words, he did not expect PvP to even be playable at all for a few months after the patch. Instead of giving it the slew of follow-up patches in post and extensive playtesting that it deserved, they slapped unkillable signet core Necros on the hands a bit and called it a day and let it fester instead. It's not that there's no fixing it, it's that they didn't do much to fix it. I understand why, they positioned the balance for the expansion to exist in a semi-rigid state so that they can balance the new elite specialisations in line with the existing balance with as few fluctuations as possible. I don't agree with this method, but I understand the reasoning behind it.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 9/21/2021 at 1:17 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

But like, they need to be actually functional, have the tools to succeed in PvP, and not hilariously unviable like Virtuoso and Willbender, and what's looking like Catalyst and Bladesworn.

This made me happy lol. I am glad I am not the only one looking at these new specs and scratching my head. Instead of doing what I quoted you doing below.

On 9/21/2021 at 1:17 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

It's also important that they do exciting new revolutionary mechanics that we've never seen before and aside from Bladesworn's charge attack, which is very underpowered in PvP capping out at around 6k damage max, they are extremely safe and not bringing anything truly new mechanically to the game like Alacrity or Barrier or shaking up how fundamentally different it is to play with your profession

It feels like they mixed up previous professions and put out the ones we are getting. 

[mortrialus.3062]

1 minute ago, Aktium.9506 said:

How? In CMC's own words, he did not expect PvP to even be playable at all for a few months after the patch. 

See that's what we in criminal prosecution call an "Admission of guilt."

[Aktium.9506]

6 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

See that's what we in criminal prosecution call an "Admission of guilt."

You truly do not see the issue we had in the game prior to the patch? How everything had gotten pushed to such extremes that it was in a complete downward spiral of power creep? The restrictiveness of such a game state?

It had to be torn down for the betterment of the game.

[mortrialus.3062]

11 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

You truly do not see the issue we had in the game prior to the patch? How everything had gotten pushed to such extremes that it was in a complete downward spiral of power creep? The restrictiveness of such a game state?

It had to be torn down for the betterment of the game.

I would 100% in a heartbeat take any moment after PoF release until megabalance, with the exception of the two months after the Phantasm rework but before Chronophantasma got nerfed. 

I see literally no betterment post megabalance.  Literally nothing is more fun or enjoyable than previously, unless you wanted to play immortal necros.  If immortal necro is your bag then I can see why you'd love megabalance. 

Looking forward to EoD dropping 9 new specs, 7-8 of which go completely unplayed for five years until the expansion afterwards. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[jdawgie.1835]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:10 PM, Vancho.8750 said:

pull at least 25k for sitting on one spot for 5 seconds

I actually agree with this. If your going to sit there and risk death charging, but you can pull it off...what you hit should die. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

The february 2020 patch was a mistake entirely.  There's no "fixing" it, there's no follow up you can do, and minionmancer being meta due to everyone else being nerfed below it is proof of that.  Minionmancer has been a meme build since they nerfed zoo in vanilla and now it's meta because they've dumpstered literally everything else so hard they're weaker than minionmancer.

Gutting everything's damage so that no one ever dies is not what PvP ever needed in this game.

I honestly can't imagine any dev thinking a blanket nerf such as feb patch would be a good idea, I mean even the devs said it would create a slew of issues inevitably but that they would do frequent follow ups to adress these.......why do it then? All the work the balance team prior had done just thrown out the window by applying a lazy blanket patch that had 0 accountability towards each individual class and its unique place within the balance of the rest of the roster......just a flat nerf to everyone lmao wtf. Why not just deal with the few outliers that were problematic? Not to mention the guy(cmc) is out right removing things from the game instead of adjusting them, again wtf pure laziness.

Now look at the new specs lmao weak asf in any competitive mode and their design on top doesn't even suit gw2 fast combat, I kno cmc isnt in charge of skill design. I'm sure cmc is a good guy but I personally think he's bad for this games competitive future, not that it was bright before but it's fallen even further since he's taken the reigns.

I don't mean to insult anyone but players that prefer post feb come across as pve'rs who like to be able to pvp easier due to being less punished for mistakes or are players who like to play tanky builds where they can just mash defensive skills mindlessly while being almost impossible to down because the overall damage is so low they can shrug off most damage even while making mistakes.

U look at the meta builds right now including core necro, MM necro, scourge and so on and ask urself, are those skilful playstyles?

Edited September 23, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107