Upcoming Balance Update

[Vagrant.7206]

@Einlanzer.1627 said:The simple truth is that the class/balance team at Anet is just not very good, and never has been - look at the state of the revenant with its half the number of skills other classes, extremely limited customization, and elite specs that are designed to finish the core class instead of modifying it. I don't know if it's the individuals on the team or problems that are more systemic - like the structure and management of the team, too few people, etc. But it needs to change. It's been needing to change for at least 3 years, and we're now hitting critical mass for players getting rightfully pissed about getting small in scope quarterly balance adjustments, and now it's happening right at the start of the PvP season where they can't even be tested by players before they are running amok and wrecking the game's meta. Of course, it's not like they've ever done post-balance balance anyway, so the timing hardly matters.

The weird thing for me is just how different GW1 balance was compared to GW2. I know that GW2's systems are more complicated, but they're not that much more complicated. GW1 balance occurred almost on a weekly basis, with regular minor balance patches, and quarterly large balance patches. They weren't always perfect, as I do remember them taking some time to sort out the assassin meta build with the launch of Factions, but I do remember much faster response times in general. I'm not sure what has changed between the two games. Was it management? The staff? Company structure?

[Ragnarox.9601]

I am glad so I can use my OP spellbreaker even more in wvw. Thanx.

[Maugetarr.6823]

@Maugetarr.6823 said:Just a quick question. Would it be possible to implement sort of a rotational balancing schedule? Say every week a small balance patch is added for a single class. So wehave classes 1-9; week 1, class 1 gets some minor buffs/nerfs to numbers (duration, stacks, cd) depending on what's under/overperforming. Week 2 class 2, week 3 class

3, and so on. So every 9 weeks you end up with all the classes having been adjusted and you get to see how the player base has reacted to the changes, and then week 11you implement mechanics changes (traits, weapon skills) to all the classes if a trait proved impossible to balance through number changes. Then 2 weeks after that, atweek 13 (effectively week 1), it starts all over again. You keep a schedule of all the classes every 3 months and can address problems that pop up faster. If something popsup that's game breaking on one class you can swap balancing that specific one for what was scheduled and push everything else back a week.

The big problem I see here is that many balance changes will only be balanced in context with other changes. If you nerf the overperforming damage of class A without doing so to classes B through E, or buffing F through I, it doesn't feel balanced to anyone, you just have a class that was on top of the world feeling slighted and attacked.

If I were setting a balance plan, it would be to have a big balance patch every 3 months, followed a month later by a tweak patch to adjust things that looked better on paper than they do in reality (I say a month because it takes time for the playerbase to adjust to changes, sometimes things seem OP or weak they really just need some playstyle adjustments to deal with, so you want to give time for things to settle to see what really is OP etc.)

Well I can see that classes might feel attacked by it, but that's why it would rotate. It also wouldn't be strictly nerfs, but buffs as well. If something is seriously overperforming or underperfoming, it could be adjusted more quickly in relation to everything else. I can see benefits to doing large patches, but it also can cause wild swings in balance with unintended interactions. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to have minor tweaks throughout the balance period, then hopefully less drastic changes during the 11th week when everything is adjusted. Furthermore if something is thrown out of balance during the general balance patch, they get a couple of weeks to look at it and reign it back in if it is gamebreaking.

[Loosifah.4738]

@OriOri.8724 said:This is disappointing. I can't believe that Anet is willing to wait so long between balance patches, especially considering the patches, when we do get them, are tiny except for a once a year patch that is decent sized (and that's it, its just decent. We haven't received a major balance patch in years). This is not acceptable ANet, not at all.

It's been 5 weeks and the last week has been full on Halloween festival. Have some patienceGranted they are generally pretty slow about implementing balance changes; it's a brand new expansion and they've been doing a lot of break fixes lately regarding the expansion.

I would personally rather them actually look into all of the classes and get a good handle on the changes needed before they push out the balance patch. That way we don't end up with one class getting hit with major nerfs while everyone else get's buffed.

[Nero.7369]

Thanks for the info :) looking forward to it ?

[Aeolus.3615]

@Ragnarox.9601 said:I am glad so I can use my OP spellbreaker even more in wvw. Thanx.

Probably, or most likelly u will continue to use it after the patch, doubt they actually change that much.

[psizone.8437]

Edit: You know what, I was careful to make sure this comment was worded well but I'd rather not get a forum infringement for being negative so I'll change it somewhat.

Management need to give the balance team time and resources to balance things and fix bugs properly and the team need to be open with their player base.

Just because people railed on you guys before doesn't mean the current player base will now, be open and give the game a chance at proper balance.

[Menadena.7482]

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

Which is basically "what was your fave class before POF came out". Not only that there is no guarantee an existing one will not get broken when we get the balance changes/fixes.

[Menadena.7482]

@Erulogos.2591 said:

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:Wait. The balance would be just for PvP? Because I have 0 cares on the competitive part of this game.

Well, balance seems to be an issue to players in the following order: sPvP, WvW, Raids, high end Fractals, general PvE.(Yes, this is a fairly broad generalization, but it holds fairly well.)It makes sense, balance directly impacts the fun of the game mode for sPvP (seeing class X or Y on another team and knowing you're going to get ROFLstomped no matter what is no fun,) is similar if diluted a little in the zerg ball of WvW, and acts as a barrier of entry to high end PvE (get meta or get lost.)

Personally, as long as they don't nerf my vampire spec (Reaper with tons of bleeds, 10% condi back as heals) for general PvE exploration I'll live. Though I hope my holosmith gets a little love in PvE (I like the damage, not so thrilled with the self harm and/or squishiness even in soldier gear.) But I prize sustain over 'OMG max deeps!' since I'm on my own or world bossing mostly.

Yes, as long as they do not nerf something in PVE I am good. Fortunately they discovered they do not always need to make changes to every game mode. Where it does matter to pve though is if they fix something .... right now some of the pof elites are .... eww.

[vicious.5683]

Don't worry, they need time to come up with new Necromancer nerfs! The class current state is not bad enough for balance team. /s

Can we get a rework of the balance team? Or at least bug fix it?

[RoseofGilead.8907]

@psizone.8437 said:Edit: You know what, I was careful to make sure this comment was worded well but I'd rather not get a forum infringement for being negative so I'll change it somewhat.

Management need to give the balance team time and resources to balance things and fix bugs properly and the team need to be open with their player base.

Just because people railed on you guys before doesn't mean the current player base will now, be open and give the game a chance at proper balance.

I, too, want better communication and more frequent balance patches. However, look at this thread. Half the comments are mostly reasonable and expressing their frustrations in a good way. The other half are flat out insulting and completely ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the player base now isn't any different than before (different people, same complaining seen in every gaming forum for every game).

[Tinnel.4369]

@"Gaile Gray.6029"

I would think that the best way to head off misguided information or expectations is to very clearly communicate information. Has this been done somewhere or in a way that the players missed or misinterpreted?

Adjusting to balance and shifting metas is a hefty investment for the players. PoF dropped with new elite's, new gear stats, and new runes and sigils. The community has worked rather tirelessly to theorycraft and flesh out what is and isn't working (barring limited accessibility to some stat combinations, i.e. grieving). Now, everyone is waiting with baited breath for something from ANet in the form of "working as intended" or "way over or under tuned" in the form of a balance patch before they make a hefty investment in a profession or gearing that profession.

I personally am in limbo between 3 different classes as to what I'll kick off the PvP season with and half heartedly testing them in WvW because until I see the balance patch I'm not investing any more time or gold in gearing. If the intention was that everything was in order at release and that we should have invested as such then it reveals a disappointing roll out with many many unanswered questions surrounding balance and gear acquisition.

So as it stands now the balance patch is set to coincide with the beginning of the PvP season. On day one when everyone should/will be placing and setting the pace for their season they're going to have changes to contend with. Your players take their play time and competitive play seriously, I assume this is a quality you desire of your player base. Does ANet feel that their investment in keeping the players informed, addressing glaring concerns, and having some level of sensitivity towards timing is on par?

[Ayakaru.6583]

Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

[Cuon Alpinus.7645]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

Yeah, the entitlement on these forums is astounding. They've already rolled out a bugfix balance patch with Halloween right after, a large rebalancing a few weeks before the xpac, and another only a month and a half later for the next large balance patch. Not only is this for 9 classes w/ 2 specs, but they have to make changes individually to each gamemode as well, so multiply that by 3. By all means, complain about the level of quality when it actually releases, but the current timeline itself is well within reasonable restraints. The sPvP lot would be complaining just as much if they moved the season start back a week to compensate.

[troops.8276]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

That is not it at all. You miss the point completely.

[Jinroh.4251]

@troops.8276 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

That is not it at all. You miss the point completely.

Of course they missed the point. Clearly the balance don't affect them so they're just posters who like to ride on a high horse, acting smug to others. Much like crazy fan boys who feel their game can do no wrong.

[Cosminion.5042]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

A properly baked pie that does not take 12 hours to make.

[Malafaia.8903]

Lolololol, i'm feeling personally attacked now.What tha hell is this horror show?"If you want to PvP, go away"That's the message?

1 - sPvP forums are flaming because of this balance.2 - Not a single word directly in that forum, that is the most interested in this balance.3 - "No balance patch during seasons, we don't want to mess things up".4 - Drops expac with broken classes/ mechanics mid-season.5 - Lot of problems noticed in beta. Nothing changes.6 - No balance patch mid-season.7 - "Hey, let's wait till the day next season starts to drop the balance patch. This way we can use the excuse of no-patches-mid-season for the next month".8 - Hope PvP players left the game one by one so we don't need to hear more complains.

Como on! I really enjoy the combat system here, just came back from a long time off and was enjoying pvp till PoF drops.If the devs don't want to support pvp game modes, just shut it down, make a pure pve game, be honest with your audience.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

I'd like a pie more than once every 4 months

[Malafaia.8903]

@Tinnel.4369 said:Your players take their play time and competitive play seriously, I assume this is a quality you desire of your player base. Does ANet feel that their investment in keeping the players informed, addressing glaring concerns, and having some level of sensitivity towards timing is on par?

PERFECT.

[Kuoteck.6182]

@Darknicrofia.2604 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

I'd like a pie more than once every 4 monthsI'd like a balanced pie

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:A message from the Balance Team:

There seems to be some incorrect information and/or unfounded expectations surrounding the next balance update, so we’d like to shed a light on our plans:

The next balance update will not take place this week; it is scheduled to come out next week, on November 7. The release date still could change due to unforeseen circumstances or shenanigans beyond our control, but that is our plan right now.

So, in other words: necro (all versions) will get a nerf again, because there are still a few stubborn people that keep playing necros.

[Xstein.2187]

Mmmm 3 month old pie :s

jk, no with all honesty as others have mentioned, I don't think this is really about people being impatient. Its kind of a two fold problem. The first, and perhaps smaller problem, is that a balance patch is going to be thrown in at the very beginning of a season, giving no testing time to players. The other is that this appears to be more of a tipping point to me and a sign that things aren't working across the board. I don't know if this is the right topic to propose this, but my personal thoughts for awhile now have been that it would be better to shorten the season lengths and pack more seasons in a year. It would then hopefully still be possible for Anet to add more balance patches per year, still between seasons (Also be good if larger balance was made closer right after a season ended and another much much smaller one with only small tweaks before the next season starts).

[Eddbopkins.2630]

The season starts on the 7th the update is on the 7th, theres no time to practice the changes for a fair competitive season. If things end up broken or even more so unbalanced theyll be a 1- 4 months for changes?? thats super discouraging and dissapointing.

Is there a reason why the developers refuse to balance any more then every 3-4 months when theres an obvious dissatisfaction amoungst its pvp player base about balance?

[Lunarlife.5128]

Simple +3% here -2% here would be nice as just a, "Hey we know things are messed up we're working on them this is a temp fix".