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Your design philosophies will cost you


Grand Marshal.4098

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A simple rant post. I am aware they won't give us a single reply on whether they have been looking at our feedback for Bladejoke, let alone Core, SpB and Zerker. 

 

I repeat months of forum discussions by saying this. But it needs to be said again and again for the sake of people's experience in the game. Granted I focus more on a competitive view as many here already know, but the issues cannot be avoided no longer. 

 

I severely doubt that the final beta or the release of the expansion will involve any noteworthy changes for warrior. I'm having more fun with other games rn personally..but this isn't the topic. 

 

 

Anet staff, start actually being more vocal and tell us if you don't want to see any more threads from warriors on how to make the class play better. With no answer people keep wondering if it's worth staying around playing the only class they love. If no response is ever given I'm afraid you will lose many long time supporters. 

 

Then again, it's not like a company should listen to a bunch of weirdos playing a class for 2k to 8k hours in the past years. 

 

Whatever, whoever is happy with competitive warrior and actually looks forward to any matchups as a warrior you are welcome to do so and I'm jealous of you. 

 

Rant over

 

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Since they've stated their intent to do a big balance pass after EoD already I'm withholding my condemnations of their current balance philosophy until then. At least we have Halloween and then Wintersday to occupy us until then.

 

I'll probably spend my time between now and EoD farming PvE to crank out legendaries and occasionally hitting WvW to get my next pip tier. 

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1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Since they've stated their intent to do a big balance pass after EoD

Do you have a source? I've heard this mentioned by a few players but havent seen anything official so I'm curious. They do need a rebalance, and hopefully not just to Vengeance again

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7 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

Do you have a source? I've heard this mentioned by a few players but havent seen anything official so I'm curious. They do need a rebalance, and hopefully not just to Vengeance again

Studio Update: World Restructuring and the Future of World vs. World | GuildWars2.com

"Before we wrap up this section, we did want to mention that we understand how important profession balance is for World vs World gameplay. To address this, after the expansion releases, we’ll be dedicating design resources to overseeing profession balance for the Live game in a full-time capacity, supporting PvE, PvP, and WvW. This will allow us to deliver balance updates on a much more consistent cadence."

Edit: So none of use should expect anything major balance wise until after EoD release. We're stuck with this crappy Feb2020 balance philosophy until at least early 2022. Hopefully when that kicks into gear they'll scrap CMC's Magnum Opus and do things right for once.

Edited by Lan Deathrider.5910
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Just now, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910Thank you!

I feel like they had a "full time" balance team at one point and that translated to profession balance updates roughly every 4-6 months before fizzling out after 1.5 years... 

Layoffs happened if you recall. Whoever was left got shuffled around. It is pretty much just CMC now on the balance team, and to be fair to the guy, there is only so much that one guy can do and test when he is most likely working 90% on the new e-specs. This is probably why the promised follow-ups to the Feb2020 patch never happened and it devolved into essentially hot fixes to whatever is trolling sPvP during any given month.

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12 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

It's a shame that happened. CMC's design philosophy (this/that) is actually agreeable, but the implementation of it was far too heavy handed and needed to be approached differently for different professions rather than flat across the board.

The flat across the board mentality is being felt with how they changed boons, changed torment, changed resolution/resistance, and now with how damage reduction stacks.

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The blame probably doesn't really fall much on cmc, the balance team has been BAD since 2013. Literally the game balance has been in a downward spiral way before cmc came along. The frenzy Nerf without compensation back in 2013, spirit ranger, turret engineer, or w/e automatic build that didn't require any braincells, and HoT when it first came out. All of that was caused by something more sinister tbh.

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11 hours ago, BlackTruth.6813 said:

The blame probably doesn't really fall much on cmc, the balance team has been BAD since 2013. Literally the game balance has been in a downward spiral way before cmc came along. The frenzy Nerf without compensation back in 2013, spirit ranger, turret engineer, or w/e automatic build that didn't require any braincells, and HoT when it first came out. All of that was caused by something more sinister tbh.

😨

Feels like the Godhand from Berserk is watching over balance and making those sinister and obvious yet secret changes, tormenting mere mortals! 

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On 10/5/2021 at 10:27 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Layoffs happened if you recall. Whoever was left got shuffled around. It is pretty much just CMC now on the balance team, and to be fair to the guy, there is only so much that one guy can do and test when he is most likely working 90% on the new e-specs. This is probably why the promised follow-ups to the Feb2020 patch never happened and it devolved into essentially hot fixes to whatever is trolling sPvP during any given month.

I remind myself of this often, and there's definitely a lot of truth to it. But there have been numerous patches and fixes along the way where other things were addressed, all of which could have been opportunities to address Warrior's absence in the competitive meta (even just little changes like "reduce shake it off's CD to 60s").

 

And then there's the May 11th patch, where they actually nerfed peak performance (PvE only) and axe mastery and gave rifle the most uninspired and ineffective rework ever. Seriously, I can't believe just how much of a flop that was. Warrior needs multiple weapons reworked (sword and mace in particular), and those should have been MUCH higher priority than rifle. And if you're going to rework rifle, at least make it good! The new skill is borderline useless and a marked step down from the skill it replaced (can't remember the name anymore).  The whole fiasco just screamed, "We don't play this class and have no idea what it needs! Oh, and we also pay no attention to the Warrior community who have written pages of comments regarding those very issues!"

 

So yeah, ANet /CMC deserve some slack given the layoffs and the demands of the upcoming expansion. But there's still plenty of blame that they rightfully deserve for the state of the game and for Warrior's plight in particular.

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15 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

😨

Feels like the Godhand from Berserk is watching over balance and making those sinister and obvious yet secret changes, tormenting mere mortals! 

Holly kitten, that make so much sense, maybe that is why Berserker sucks so much these day. There is only struggle and suffering left.

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11 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I remind myself of this often, and there's definitely a lot of truth to it. But there have been numerous patches and fixes along the way where other things were addressed, all of which could have been opportunities to address Warrior's absence in the competitive meta (even just little changes like "reduce shake it off's CD to 60s").

 

And then there's the May 11th patch, where they actually nerfed peak performance (PvE only) and axe mastery and gave rifle the most uninspired and ineffective rework ever. Seriously, I can't believe just how much of a flop that was. Warrior needs multiple weapons reworked (sword and mace in particular), and those should have been MUCH higher priority than rifle. And if you're going to rework rifle, at least make it good! The new skill is borderline useless and a marked step down from the skill it replaced (can't remember the name anymore).  The whole fiasco just screamed, "We don't play this class and have no idea what it needs! Oh, and we also pay no attention to the Warrior community who have written pages of comments regarding those very issues!"

 

So yeah, ANet /CMC deserve some slack given the layoffs and the demands of the upcoming expansion. But there's still plenty of blame that they rightfully deserve for the state of the game and for Warrior's plight in particular.

I agree100% I am willing to give them some slack, but the supposed rebalance post EoD release had better uplift warrior's toolkit.

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3 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I remind myself of this often, and there's definitely a lot of truth to it. But there have been numerous patches and fixes along the way where other things were addressed, all of which could have been opportunities to address Warrior's absence in the competitive meta (even just little changes like "reduce shake it off's CD to 60s").

 

And then there's the May 11th patch, where they actually nerfed peak performance (PvE only) and axe mastery and gave rifle the most uninspired and ineffective rework ever. Seriously, I can't believe just how much of a flop that was. Warrior needs multiple weapons reworked (sword and mace in particular), and those should have been MUCH higher priority than rifle. And if you're going to rework rifle, at least make it good! The new skill is borderline useless and a marked step down from the skill it replaced (can't remember the name anymore).  The whole fiasco just screamed, "We don't play this class and have no idea what it needs! Oh, and we also pay no attention to the Warrior community who have written pages of comments regarding those very issues!"

 

So yeah, ANet /CMC deserve some slack given the layoffs and the demands of the upcoming expansion. But there's still plenty of blame that they rightfully deserve for the state of the game and for Warrior's plight in particular.

I think they read it, but half way since they changed the functionality of rifle to be more useful at least in Open world PVE , explosive shot still needs to be better short range and it should be the shot gun AoE thing to tag groups better, it still doesn't feel good to hit with it since it has weird targeting , the line AoE on warrior doesn't work since it doesn't have a way to control groups and line them up to shoot , the skills are too slow to have any impact, it should work more like Ranger longbow, I still think the melee attack should get a leap to be easier to connect and have some gameplay rotation Brutal shot into Rifle butt . 

And my biggest GRIPE Brutal shot should be a reactive skills so the kitten dodge should come first. They took my complaint about rifle having sucky non different animations to heart but they didn't do the kitten dodge non interruptible, who though it is a good idea to have dodge skills with a kitten precast, should I have a 6th sense to use it for kittens sake. 

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it's the hard code for classes for pve that's screwing over pvp/wvw.

warrior will forever be selfish side noder that plays basically the same for every elite spec.

 

like probably CmC wanted some thing new for warrior, to finally grant it a teleport, but then it is hard gated behind a super heavy class code that made it incredibly un-useful.

Like how warrior can only charge energy inside combat for every single elite spec completely shut down warrior from being roamer in conquest. and at least other warriors can full charge incombat with signet of fury etc, bladesworn can not...even more limitation for getting teleports and having blade stance lock warrior in place?..

 

why can't there be a warrior spec that gets full energy charge outside of combat?..why can't warrior get proper telepot? why can't warrior get proper instant cast? or even proper movement skill? like skills that stick to enemy like rev sword 3 or engi hammer 3.

because of their class code which they follow like some bible

Edited by felix.2386
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On 10/8/2021 at 1:16 AM, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

It's a shame that happened. CMC's design philosophy (this/that) is actually agreeable, but the implementation of it was far too heavy handed and needed to be approached differently for different professions rather than flat across the board.

Yeah, it was supposed to be a matter of a heavy-handed across-the-board reset followed by evaluation to see if anything needed to be scaled back up. That evaluation never happened. 

2 minutes ago, Raizel.1839 said:

What is it that you don't like in bladesworn? 

I don't know about competitive modes (because I never play pvp/wvw) but I played bladesworn in pve and I loved it.

Two substantial differences between PvE and PvP:

 

First, few players are going to let you get away with hitting them with a highly telegraphed 5 second channel where all the damage is backloaded. They'll interrupt you, or just avoid it. You might be able to catch them using flickerstep or the second or third slash rather than the first, but players will actively avoid, interrupt, or otherwise prevent you from hitting them in a way that PvE enemies usually don't.

 

Second, the numbers in competitive are VERY different to what they are in PvE, to the tune of about a factor of twenty purely in terms of power scaling, and that's before you consider questions of whether a PvP bladesworn can build up the high power and ferocity that a PvE bladesworn can. PvE bladesworn gets a payoff that actually justifies the setup. Competitive bladesworn gets a payoff that's barely stronger than an Arcing Slice. And it's never going to get the "if you manage to pull this off that will basically oneshot people" effect because that would be unfun to play against.

 

So, in short: in a competitive environment, it's a lot harder to land than it is in PvE, and if you DO land it you don't get the payoff to justify it.

 

It works in PvE, but as an earlier thread put it: it's effectively sworn to PvE. The mechanic just doesn't work against a player unless you use it in a completely different way to how you'd use it in PvE.

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10 hours ago, Raizel.1839 said:

What is it that you don't like in bladesworn? 

I don't know about competitive modes (and I don't care because I never play pvp/wvw), but I played bladesworn in pve and I loved it.

even in pve is bad, raid dps rotation is clunky, in open world things die before you get energy to ever touch your class mechanic and very low mobility to move from one mob to other, and never good in farming and tagging.

 

you are probably too new even in pve and having a very clunky gameplay to notice the difference.

Edited by felix.2386
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21 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

even in pve is bad, raid dps rotation is clunky, in open world things die before you get energy to ever touch your class mechanic and very low mobility to move from one mob to other, and never good in farming and tagging.

 

you are probably too new even in pve and having a very clunky gameplay to notice the difference.

Lord Hizen (I think) has pegged it as the best warrior build for soloing legendaries, and trash mobs dying before you can really use your profession mechanic is a common problem with warrior. So I could see it working for PvE, although I didn't try it myself.  

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57 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Lord Hizen (I think) has pegged it as the best warrior build for soloing legendaries, and trash mobs dying before you can really use your profession mechanic is a common problem with warrior. So I could see it working for PvE, although I didn't try it myself.  

For things that take more then 5s to kill. Sure, but then they also have to not move, not CC, and not one shot your while you charge your lolomegalazer.

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