Thank you, ANet, for making the Strike Mission optional

[Raknar.4735]

5 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s an MMO. You’re also obtaining what’s essentially a “free” legendary amulet as all you’re doing are achievements. 

There's nothing massively about instanced/forced group content, though. Multiplayer also doesn't necessarily mean coop. I'll give you online.

"It's an MMO" is honestly not a good or relevant argument to argue why certain content has to be done, as all MMOs also have all various types of content.

"Oh, you have to play solo/jp/harvesting/farming/housing/lifeskilling/jumping/PvP/WvW/RvR/raiding/dungeon/fashion/collection content?"  - "Of course, it's an MMO".

The legendary amulet is technically not free, as any new player that wants it will still need to buy all LS seasons, which is 1500g+.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[mythical.6315]

28 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

There's nothing massively about instanced/forced group content, though. Multiplayer also doesn't necessarily mean coop. I'll give you online.

"It's an MMO" is honestly not a good or relevant argument to argue why certain content has to be done, as all MMOs also have all various types of content.

"Oh, you have to play solo/jp/harvesting/farming/housing/lifeskilling/jumping/PvP/WvW/RvR/raiding/dungeon/fashion/collection content?"  - "Of course, it's an MMO".

The legendary amulet is technically not free, as any new player that wants it will still need to buy all LS seasons, which is 1500g+.

MMOs have group content. That’s what I was getting at.  If the developers had added new dungeons with IBS, instead of strikes, would we have players complaining about being “forced” to do them for the optional legendary amulet?  The complaint isn’t actually about group content itself despite the claim.  It’s about not wanting to do a specific thing which they do not like for various reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Raknar.4735]

19 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

MMOs have group content. That’s what I was getting at. 

Oh I know. MMOs also have all different varieties of content, e.g. the ones mentioned earlier.

That's why I'm saying your initial "It's an MMO" argument is worthless and makes no sense.

 

The rest of your comment also doesn't really make sense to me, as you're arguing a point no one complained about, and you're putting words into someone else's (who exactly?) mouth. It sounds like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Dungeons, instead of strikes are still the same type of content in this case: instanced content where you have to group up (just 5 instead of 10 man). And no, we wouldn't have players complaining to get the optional amulet because the content you have to do for it is already optional. You don't have to do the instanced forced group content, as Anet already provided a way to complete the Return event by making one thing optional. So they already don't have to do a specific thing. That's what the thread is about in the first place: OP thanking Anet for making the content he doesn't want to play optional.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[radda.8920]

It should have been mandatory.
Access to a legendary amulet without the slightest challenge is ridiculous This legendary has no more values if everyone has access to it.

Edited October 20, 2021 by radda.8920

[DarcShriek.5829]

It's funny, my thought was thank you for not making me do the JP!

[DarcShriek.5829]

22 hours ago, Bingus.4236 said:

Shame they don't make these awful jumping puzzles optional

Technically, the one for this episode is.

[mythical.6315]

59 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Oh I know. MMOs also have all different varieties of content, e.g. the ones mentioned earlier.

That's why I'm saying your initial "It's an MMO" argument is worthless and makes no sense.

 

The rest of your comment also doesn't really make sense to me, as you're arguing a point no one complained about, and you're putting words into someone else's (who exactly?) mouth. It sounds like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Dungeons, instead of strikes are still the same type of content in this case: instanced content where you have to group up (just 5 instead of 10 man). And no, we wouldn't have players complaining to get the optional amulet because the content you have to do for it is already optional. You don't have to do the instanced forced group content, as Anet already provided a way to complete the Return event by making one thing optional. So they already don't have to do a specific thing. That's what the thread is about in the first place: OP thanking Anet for making the content he doesn't want to play optional.

MMOs have group content with things locked behind that. This is why I stated “It’s an MMO” in that post. Just because MMOs also have other types of content, that doesn’t invalidate what I said. 
 

I brought up dungeons as I’m sure players who complain if the strike were mandatory would have had no issues if it were the dungeon instead. Quite often players complain about having to do group content for a specific thing despite having no issues doing it at all other times. 
 

As for the last part of your post, I took issue with a poster who commented about forced group content. You did not have to respond to my post. That same poster also had no issues with the jumping puzzles so this is more of a matter of preference. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Raknar.4735]

17 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

MMOs have group content with things locked behind that. This is why I stated “It’s an MMO” in that post. Just because MMOs also have other types of content, that doesn’t invalidate what I said. 
 

I brought up dungeons as I’m sure players who complain if the strike were mandatory would have had no issues if it were the dungeon instead. Quite often players complain about having to do group content for a specific thing despite having no issues doing it at all other times. 
 

As for the last part of your post, I took issue with a poster who commented about forced group content. You did not have to respond to my post. 

You used "It's an MMO" as if it was a relevant argument. It is not, because that phrase doesn't mean anything for the aforementioned reasons.

I'm not invalidating what you're saying. Yes, MMOs have group content, MMOs also have people who don't appreciate forced group content. After all, it's an MMO (See how it is nonsense to use that as an argument? You can basically use it for anything in the context of MMOs).

About the dungeons/strike thing: So you just made up an irrelevant imaginary argument about dungeons/strikes for the sake of arguing with no one. Ok, I suppose. Not sure how that is relevant to anything at all, as the person you initialy took offense to was talking about forced group content, as you repeated, which would include both strikes and dungeons.

I didn't have to respond to your post. You're right. But, just as you did, I did take issue with a poster who commented with the nonsensical "It's an MMO"-statement. I mean, this is an MMO forum, after all, and discussions are part of that😉.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Raknar.4735 said:

You used "It's an MMO" as if it was a relevant argument. It is not, because that phrase doesn't mean anything for the aforementioned reasons.

I'm not invalidating what you're saying. Yes, MMOs have group content, MMOs also have people who don't appreciate forced group content. After all, it's an MMO (See how it is nonsense to use that as an argument? You can basically use it for anything in the context of MMOs).

About the dungeons/strike thing: So you just made up an irrelevant imaginary argument about dungeons/strikes for the sake of arguing with no one. Ok, I suppose. Not sure how that is relevant to anything at all, as the person you initialy took offense to was talking about forced group content, as you repeated, which would include both strikes and dungeons.

I didn't have to respond to your post. You're right. But, just as you did, I did take issue with a poster who commented with the nonsensical "It's an MMO"-statement. I mean, this is an MMO forum, after all, and discussions are part of that😉.

It is as I’ve stated several times now that group content is a part of MMOs and practically all of them have content that can only be obtained by doing group content. I use it in this context because GW2 is an MMO so the poster I quoted should realize that group content would be required for some items in the game such as a legendary. 
 

I used the dungeon argument to explain that the issue isn’t really with group content itself but specific piece of content (i.e. strikes) out of a matter of personal preference. I’ve stated this more than once already as well. I don’t really want to have to repeat myself yet again. 

[Gibson.4036]

3 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

It should have been mandatory.
Access to a legendary amulet without the slightest challenge is ridiculous This legendary has no more values if everyone has access to it.

That’s absurd unless you get your worth from how much you’ve played a video game compared to others.

Of course it has worth even if every single other player has one. It means an amulet with ascended strength stats on every single character you have, able to swap stats as builds change, and able to swap upgrades. There’s a ton of utility there.

Now, maybe you already own Transcendence so you already have that utility. Maybe this one will have a different visual effect? We don’t know. But if you can only appreciate something if other people don’t have it, that’s pretty sad.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Raknar.4735]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

It is as I’ve stated several times now that group content is a part of MMOs and practically all of them have content that can only be obtained by doing group content. I use it in this context because GW2 is an MMO so the poster I quoted should realize that group content would be required for some items in the game such as a legendary. 
 

I used the dungeon argument to explain that the issue isn’t really with group content itself but specific piece of content (i.e. strikes) out of a matter of personal preference. I’ve stated this more than once already as well. I don’t really want to have to repeat myself yet again. 

You can keep stating that, that doesn't change the fact that the poster you've quoted was referring to the current Return to... events that have a way to be completed by people who don't appreciate group content. Your "This is an MMO" makes no sense in this context, because forced group content is simply not required in this case.

Because this is an MMO,  Anet knows the players that play MMOs have varying interests. Anet has introduced a way in which players aren't forced to do the group content in this case. You have to realise that this is an MMO, so there are various types of players and content they prefer. Anet already does realise that, you don't seem to. 

No one has an issue with the dungeon/strikes in the Return to... content. No one is arguing anything about dungeon/strikes thing but you yourself here. You're creating an issue out of thin air yourself.

If you don't want to repeat yourself, then simply don't. Just stop. Repeating yourself hasn't added anything to this conversation. You've been stuck in this loop of repeating yourself, simply because you want to have the last word for some reason, without making sense. You've created yourself an issue that doesn't even exist in this Return to... content just to further argue without any substance.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[radda.8920]

5 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

That’s absurd unless you get your worth from how much you’ve played a video game compared to others.

Of course it has worth even if every single other player has one. It means an amulet with ascended strength stats on every single character you have, able to swap stats as builds change, and able to swap upgrades. There’s a ton of utility there.

Now, maybe you already own Transcendence so you already have that utility. Maybe this one will have a different visual effect? We don’t know. But if you can only appreciate something if other people don’t have it, that’s pretty sad.

 

We are talking about a LEGENDARY object, not something common. It has to deserve the title.

That something else is easy to obtain, I do not see too much of a problem. But this is supposed to be the rarest and most desirable weapons / armor / trinkets in the game. So yes it must be a minimum hard to have and not accessible to everyone... otherwise it destroys the value of the thing.

 

It's always been the interest of titles and rare items on a mmo. That a limited amount of people get them to show off your abilities on the game. If everyone had the legendary raiding armor, it would be pointless to wear it for example, it would become mundane and tasteless.

 

But we surely have 2 different conceptions of what should be a rare object so we will enter into an endless debate.

Edited October 21, 2021 by radda.8920

[BlueJin.4127]

I like Strike missions. I wish the entirety of Champions will be optional (or at the very least, DRM’s). 😛

[Gibson.4036]

4 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

We are talking about a LEGENDARY object, not something common. It has to deserve the title.

That something else is easy to obtain, I do not see too much of a problem. But this is supposed to be the rarest and most desirable weapons / armor / trinkets in the game. So yes it must be a minimum hard to have and not accessible to everyone... otherwise it destroys the value of the thing.

 

It's always been the interest of titles and rare items on a mmo. That a limited amount of people get them to show off your abilities on the game. If everyone had the legendary raiding armor, it would be pointless to wear it for example, it would become mundane and tasteless.

 

But we surely have 2 different conceptions of what should be a rare object so we will enter into an endless debate.

Yeah, I’ve always taken the name legendary with a grain of salt, kinda like exotic and rare, both of which aren’t what they are labeled at all.

You’re totally right. I’ve never understood the need to be a special snowflake in a game played by hundreds of thousands of people. I also see tastelessness as a function of bad aesthetics and tackiness, not how common something is. You and I appear to have completely different values, so it’s unlikely more conversation will lead to common ground between us.

[Ashantara.8731]

11 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

We are talking about a LEGENDARY object, not something common. It has to deserve the title.

They could have reserved it for people who have done all the episodes' achievements, not just the Return ones. That might have made more sense to me as well, but you won't see me complaining just because I happen to belong to that group of people.

I mean, you can buy legendary weapons off the Trading Post - you could argue that that's also "cheating the system."

But in all sincereness, is it even worth your time and energy to be resentful about it? Enjoy the fruits of your own labor knowing that you put real effort into it, and let other people be.
 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[DarcShriek.5829]

20 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

It should have been mandatory.
Access to a legendary amulet without the slightest challenge is ridiculous This legendary has no more values if everyone has access to it.

They've already required 4 JPs.  It' not exactly an easy legendary to get.

Edited October 21, 2021 by DarcShriek.5829

[Ashantara.8731]

1 minute ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

They've already required 4 JPs.  It' not exactly an easy legendary to get.

Portal cheats. 'nuff said. ;)

[DarcShriek.5829]

Just now, Ashantara.8731 said:

Portal cheats. 'nuff said. 😉

Then adding another JP would make no difference.  My position that this latest JP is unnecessary is unchanged.

[mythical.6315]

59 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Then adding another JP would make no difference.  My position that this latest JP is unnecessary is unchanged.

You’re the one that brought up the JPs just a few posts ago. The thread is about strikes. 

[aspirine.6852]

Well since there are no more JP's in the upcoming maps perhaps the strikes will replace them.. Or perhaps the mysteries will count as JP for Bjora.

[Fueki.4753]

14 minutes ago, aspirine.6852 said:

Well since there are no more JP's in the upcoming maps perhaps the strikes will replace them.. Or perhaps the mysteries will count as JP for Bjora.

Don't forget about the weird Light Puzzles.

I'm more worried about what they'll do for Drizzle Wood and DRMs.

Other than the three Spirits' mini games and the meta, there isn't much to do in Drizzlewood.

And the DRMs don't have much to them at all.

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I'm more worried about what they'll do for Drizzle Wood and DRMs.

Other than the three Spirits' mini games and the meta, there isn't much to do in Drizzlewood.

And the DRMs don't have much to them at all.

Drizzlewood has quite a few parts to the meta that they could turn into achievements.

Totally agree with you on the DRMs. I'm really hoping they don't default to things like "Never get knocked down by the boss attack" and "kill all enemies without the escort quest NPC taking damage" kind of stuff they like to put as achievements for story instances. After standing behind Tequatl three different days to finally get the tail dodge, I'd like to avoid those kind of tasks if at all possible.

So far, the Return achievements have been fine, so I'm hopeful.

[LucianDK.8615]

Indeed I have been quite worried about what they will do with DRMs. I wouldnt be suprised if we are asked to run each x5 times.

[Handsel.2891]

I see some people arguing that this trinket is way too easy to acquire. It's an opinion I don't agree with simply because of the time it requires to do all the achievements, some of which do actually require some effort. Is it still the fastest way to get hold of a legendary item? Arguably. Does that fact make it less valuable? Hardly. According to gw2efficiency.com, only about 10% of the players own at least one legendary trinket, while 40% of us have at least one legendary weapon. Your bragging rights are not threatened by this amulet, they are already ruined by 4 in every 10 players.

Also, there are some more people who are glad this latest JP is not necessary because they can't be bothered or, more possibly, find it too hard to do it without assistance. How is that different from having to do a strike mission that OP and others wouldn't be happy about?

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Thanks for making the jumping puzzle optional! (You can opt for doing the strike and skip the JP)